LEGALITY ON POACHERS

rugerman

what is the leagal way to approach the poachers both deer poachers and the lads out shooting our phesants

jap gt

i assume there isnt much you can do but call the gaurds/rangers

tfox

I think if you are have permission for shooting you are entitled to ask to see there licence and for there name and address ....? Now I'm not 100% sure on this, born in Scotland so get mixed up with differing laws

sean raff

suppose you can start with tire slashing

Sparks

sean raff wrote: »

suppose you can start with tire slashing

No, because that's illegal, and suspecting someone else is doing something illegal isn't licence to break the law yourself. If it was, we'd have priests nailed to church doors all over the country and bankers strangled with the intestines of the Minister for Finance and half his department...

Basicly, you can call the NWPS and the Gardai, and that's pretty much it. Document their activities, take photos and/or video of them poaching, and then testify in court.

rugerman

your snookered no matter what way u go because 9 times out of ten u know these lads u cant say nothing because when u go for ur pint on a sunday nite these lads are there and u dont want the hassle they cum up boasting how they got a double down the field the back of (ur place) grit ur teeth is all u can do:mad:

lamper35

rugerman wrote: »

your snookered no matter what way u go because 9 times out of ten u know these lads u cant say nothing because when u go for ur pint on a sunday nite these lads are there and u dont want the hassle they cum up boasting how they got a double down the field the back of (ur place) grit ur teeth is all u can do:mad:

rugerman thats a load of b****x sorry but if u think someone is doin wrong as in the op says..why not tell em there doin wrong..those lads wud think less of u if they met u the same evenin in the pub after u sayin sweet f**k all too them in the field..id think more of saving honour than saving a pint

MarkD.

rugerman wrote: »

your snookered no matter what way u go because 9 times out of ten u know these lads u cant say nothing because when u go for ur pint on a sunday nite these lads are there and u dont want the hassle they cum up boasting how they got a double down the field the back of (ur place) grit ur teeth is all u can do:mad:

If we all took that attitude we'd all hush hush about drug dealers and petty criminals just cos we dont want to bump into their bad side down the local. If someone was robbing your house you wouldnt keep it quiet ust to keep on their "I know you" basis.

If its on club grounds, they could be done for trespassing if you enquire within the club and the land owner etc etc.. Try get an army of opposition against them, the more hunters you know that want this stopped will be of great help to the case.
Also if they are poaching at night, just shine a lamp on them it would deter them some bit.

pedroeibar1

Sparks wrote: »

Basicly, you can call the NWPS and the Gardai, and that's pretty much it. Document their activities, take photos and/or video of them poaching, and then testify in court.

Mmmmmmmmmmm. There are better ways. You can do a bit more, IF you have the sporting rights in writing.
Firstly, remember that they are armed and usually don’t care about the law, so be careful. Under Section 44 of the 1976 Wildlife Act you as owner /occupier or holder of the sporting rights have the right to request that the person who is committing a Section 44 offence and is in possession of a firearm provide you with their name and address.

So, tell them that they are shooting without permission, that you represent the owners of the sporting rights andthat under Section 44 of the 1976 Wildlife Act you are entitled to obtain their names and addresses. It also is a good idea to get the serial numbers of their guns - that way they can be traced if they give false names. As Sparks said, take photos, report to Gardai and the NPWS.

One of the places I shoot gets one or two guys every year. Last season a guy was working a springer through one of the (obvious) cover crops - my mate guessed where his car was parked and cut him off. He said he did not realise it was a shoot:rolleyes:. He then nearly crapped himself when he was photographed with a phone, and almost in tears, eventually produced a NARGC card for a club in Longford (hope he is on here and reading this now:D:D:D:D). Too much hassle, in fairness he was polite, we reckoned he would not be back so we let him go with a warning that he would be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law if we found him again.

A gun can be confiscated by the Courts for a poaching offense - and any conviction would make licence renewal very difficult/impossible. Also, the Gardai have extensive 'stop & search' powers for suspected poaching that go beyond their usual norm.

P.

homerhop

You get the secretary of the club to make a formal complaint to the local,also ask the land owner if they will also make a complaint or give a letter that the lads in question had no permission to shoot his land.
We had to do it this year and the guardi were out at their house that nigt giving a formal caution along with informing them if any more complaints were made they would have their firearms confinscated.

ByeByeGTI

pedroeibar1 wrote: »

Mmmmmmmmmmm. There are better ways. You can do a bit more, IF you have the sporting rights in writing.
Firstly, remember that they are armed and usually don’t care about the law, so be careful. Under Section 44 of the 1976 Wildlife Act you as owner /occupier or holder of the sporting rights have the right to request that the person who is committing a Section 44 offence and is in possession of a firearm provide you with their name and address.

So, tell them that they are shooting without permission, that you represent the owners of the sporting rights andthat under Section 44 of the 1976 Wildlife Act you are entitled to obtain their names and addresses. It also is a good idea to get the serial numbers of their guns - that way they can be traced if they give false names. As Sparks said, take photos, report to Gardai and the NPWS.

One of the places I shoot gets one or two guys every year. Last season a guy was working a springer through one of the (obvious) cover crops - my mate guessed where his car was parked and cut him off. He said he did not realise it was a shoot:rolleyes:. He then nearly crapped himself when he was photographed with a phone, and almost in tears, eventually produced a NARGC card for a club in Longford (hope he is on here and reading this now:D:D:D:D). Too much hassle, in fairness he was polite, we reckoned he would not be back so we let him go with a warning that he would be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law if we found him again.

A gun can be confiscated by the Courts for a poaching offense - and any conviction would make licence renewal very difficult/impossible. Also, the Gardai have extensive 'stop & search' powers for suspected poaching that go beyond their usual norm.

P.

Come on not every one might be as tough as you i mean asking a poacher for
serial number's.

ByeByeGTI

rugerman wrote: »

what is the leagal way to approach the poachers both deer poachers and the lads out shooting our phesants

Personally i would have a chat with the local garda.

lamper35

pedroeibar1 wrote: »

Mmmmmmmmmmm. There are better ways. You can do a bit more, IF you have the sporting rights in writing.
Firstly, remember that they are armed and usually don’t care about the law, so be careful. Under Section 44 of the 1976 Wildlife Act you as owner /occupier or holder of the sporting rights have the right to request that the person who is committing a Section 44 offence and is in possession of a firearm provide you with their name and address.

So, tell them that they are shooting without permission, that you represent the owners of the sporting rights andthat under Section 44 of the 1976 Wildlife Act you are entitled to obtain their names and addresses. It also is a good idea to get the serial numbers of their guns - that way they can be traced if they give false names. As Sparks said, take photos, report to Gardai and the NPWS.


One of the places I shoot gets one or two guys every year. Last season a guy was working a springer through one of the (obvious) cover crops - my mate guessed where his car was parked and cut him off. He said he did not realise it was a shoot:rolleyes:. He then nearly crapped himself when he was photographed with a phone, and almost in tears, eventually produced a NARGC card for a club in Longford (hope he is on here and reading this now:D:D:D:D). Too much hassle, in fairness he was polite, we reckoned he would not be back so we let him go with a warning that he would be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law if we found him again.


A gun can be confiscated by the Courts for a poaching offense - and any conviction would make licence renewal very difficult/impossible. Also, the Gardai have extensive 'stop & search' powers for suspected poaching that go beyond their usual norm.

P.

firstly ur saying that they are armed and dont care about the law ...then ur sayin approach these armed and dangerous guys lol and lecture about section 44
Then ur sayin a guy was shootin through cover with his springer and ur mate cut him off and the guy nearly s**t himself when told he had no permission too shoot the area does this sound like an armed and dangerous guy too u cause it certainly dont too me:rolleyes:..u just kinda proved that these guys are approachable and can be told too move on..

lamper35

homerhop wrote: »

You get the secretary of the club to make a formal complaint to the local,also ask the land owner if they will also make a complaint or give a letter that the lads in question had no permission to shoot his land.
We had to do it this year and the guardi were out at their house that nigt giving a formal caution along with informing them if any more complaints were made they would have their firearms confinscated.

IMO formal complaints should only be made if they didnt head the first warning

Jonty

Lads,

I heard a story that if you are going to ring the guards on poachers it is best to contact the guards via 999 as opposed to ringing the station directly.

The reason for this is that a 999 call is logged and is more likely to be taken seriously.

It seems plausible

kildare.17hmr

tfox wrote: »

I think if you are have permission for shooting you are entitled to ask to see there licence and for there name and address ....? Now I'm not 100% sure on this, born in Scotland so get mixed up with differing laws

Not that id be messin around or poachin lads birds but pedro if some lad claiming to be from a gun club came up to me when i was out shooting askin for my name address and seriel nimber of my gun he would be told where to go. the only person id give this info to if asked is a guard

clivej

kildare.17hmr wrote: »

Not that id be messin around or poachin lads birds but pedro if some lad claiming to be from a gun club came up to me when i was out shooting askin for my name address and seriel nimber of my gun he would be told where to go. the only person id give this info to if asked is a guard

Your out of order there.
The law says you that the person with the rights to shoot can ask you for your details and if you don't give them then you could be in more trouble.

The photo on the phone is a good idea as you then can give it to the Garda who more than lightly would know the person.

kildare.17hmr

clivej wrote: »

Your out of order there.
The law says you that the person with the rights to shoot can ask you for your details and if you don't give them then you could be in more trouble.

The photo on the phone is a good idea as you then can give it to the Garda who more than lightly would know the person.

sorry but i dont think i am, law or not im not givin my details to someone i dont know from adam who could be anyone! Id only be shooting on my permissions anyway but i have seen plenty of storys of lads with permission getting **** off gun club members saying they shouldnt be there ect. I do accept though and have no problem that if i was poaching or doing something else illegal they are within there rights to ask because its not something id do in the first place.

+1 photo is a good idea

bunny shooter

rugerman wrote: »

what is the leagal way to approach the poachers both deer poachers and the lads out shooting our phesants

:rolleyes: I know lads in my area who would slit each others throat for a pheasant :eek:

This just reinforces my decision to not bother with too much game shooting

buckshotbrolan

I spoke to my local garda about approaching poachers and was told to leave them well alone. If I were to approach these Gringo's out in the boonys I would probly be gralloched and thrown in the van with the rest of the deer, and then of to the game dealer!
Best thing to do is suck it up and just except the fact that there will allways be poachers.

lamper35

Jonty wrote: »

Lads,

I heard a story that if you are going to ring the guards on poachers it is best to contact the guards via 999 as opposed to ringing the station directly.

The reason for this is that a 999 call is logged and is more likely to be taken seriously.

It seems plausible

999 is for emergency only

Grizzly 45

clivej wrote: »

Your out of order there.
The law says you that the person with the rights to shoot can ask you for your details and if you don't give them then you could be in more trouble.

The photo on the phone is a good idea as you then can give it to the Garda who more than lightly would know the person.

You would be a very BRAVE man to walk up to a bunch of complete strangers and ask them for details and demand it is within your "rights" to so so...Especially if they are carrying firearms and are proably doing somthing illegal anyway..Not to mind going and snapping all and sundry with your camera.You might find that removed off you and forcibly inserted in a body orfice of yours for your trouble.:(

Better off, fall back,observe,record.
Fall back ,IOW make sure you arent putting yourself in danger,as you dont know wTF you are dealing with.
Observe and record with your camera phone if there is somthing going on, car regs etc,then at least you have somthing .
The big trouble is with all this.If you complain the Gaurds will prosecute,BUT YOU have to maybe get up in court and tesitify under oath!!!IOW you will have to go the full nine yards with this,and if they are locals in your community,who might be a tad gurrierish...Life for you and yours could be made uncomfortable by them and their no doubt massive extended fammily.

crackcrack30

sean raff wrote: »

suppose you can start with tire slashing

The above should be retracted or removed.

Start with adequate "shooting rights" signs and work yer way up from there to tresspassing ect. - there will be plenty of pheasants ,deer and duck when mankind is long gone as there was before we arrived.

Dusty87

crackcrack30 wrote: »

The above should be retracted or removed.

Not being smart towards you or Sparks, but i believe in the non PC world, this is called a 'joke':rolleyes:

crackcrack30

Would it be a joke if it happened to you? because some idiot can't tell that this is a tounge in cheek joke??

fodda

Thing is anybody poaching with a gun just brings bad publicity and feeling towards law abiding shooters because when it is reported by the press or whoever, that is the way the general public will feel and they wont be too bothered listening to deep explanations so will agree that gun ownership is wrong and even legal gun ownership is being abused. (which it seems to be).

What is the point of having a police force and criminal law if the general public (you) wont report crime when they see criminals in this case poachers committing crimes.

Do you think through not immediately reporting these poachers you are not helping getting rid of those people who only want to own a gun so it can be used for illegal activity and bring bad feeling towards the rest of the law abiding shooters?

Dusty87

crackcrack30 wrote: »

Would it be a joke if it happened to you? because some idiot can't tell that this is a tounge in cheek joke??

No probably not. But then again i dont be out poaching;)

Grizzly 45

[

QUOTE=fodda;69708310]Thing is anybody poaching with a gun just brings bad publicity and feeling towards law abiding shooters because when it is reported by the press or whoever, that is the way the general public will feel and they wont be too bothered listening to deep explanations so will agree that gun ownership is wrong and even legal gun ownership is being abused. (which it seems to be).

That goes for anything in which a crime or misuse of an item happens in this World.Not just firearms or "poaching" if you can call this fukactin poaching!!:mad:

What is the point of having a police force and criminal law if the general public (you) wont report crime when they see criminals in this case poachers committing crimes.
[/QUOTE]

As said the police and law will only too gladly prosecute people,but YOU the general public have to be willing and able to stand in the witness box and
give evidence as to what crime,you saw.No witnesses ,no trial..Sorry ,but thats just the way it is in a Western democratic legal system.

Do you think through not immediately reporting these poachers you are not helping getting rid of those people who only want to own a gun so it can be used for illegal activity and bring bad feeling towards the rest of the law abiding shooters?

Were it so simple!!!

fodda

Well Griz i suppose the only thing to do is take a video if possible and all Gards immediatley so they can be caught in the act.

Sparks

crackcrack30 wrote: »

Would it be a joke if it happened to you? because some idiot can't tell that this is a tounge in cheek joke??

No, hence the post immediately after that pointing out that it would be illegal to do so for the humour-and-common-sense-impaired.

clivej wrote: »

The law says you that the person with the rights to shoot can ask you for your details and if you don't give them then you could be in more trouble.

Very true, and you'd be completely within your rights to do so; but out in the middle of a dark field in the middle of the night, proving that you do indeed hold the shooting rights might be an issue, and if the people involved are poaching, you could end up assaulted as a result.

Personally, I think the better approach is to passively observe and record and report the poaching to the Gardai and NWPS, filing written reports so it can't be fobbed off, and state that you're willing to testify in court (people being reluctant to do so often stymies prosecutions, so declaring a clear willingness to stand up and testify in court is something you might find gets you taken more seriously).

Photographs, video, notes of car licence plate numbers (and makes and models and colour of cars), dates and times and exact locations and any other verifiable objective data are all factors that add to the weight of your complaint and can be obtained without confrontation.

pedroeibar1

tfox and– the law is clear over here, it is quoted in my post, and called Section 44 of the 1976 Wildlife Act
Kildare 17hmr – read the above Section before making pronouncements.
Buckshotbrolan – why should I leave poachers alone? They are stealing birds that we reared, fed, nourished and protected. What would you do if I came into your garden and started to dig up your plants and load them in to my car? None of the gardai around here would take the view of ‘leave them alone’ – phone the station, say what is happening, ask the name of the garda you are speaking to and also state that you want the call logged.
I can see where Grizz is coming from, but by not taking a stand in the face of wrongdoing is what has got this country into the mess it is in.
Rs
P.

Grizzly 45

fodda wrote: »

Well Griz i suppose the only thing to do is take a video if possible and all Gards immediatley so they can be caught in the act.

Yeah,just make sure your video is also time and date stamped.Useless otherwise as evidence.:(

What super gaurds do you expect to show up immediately out in the middle of nowhere to catch these lads in the act??I'm sure they would if they had the resources[IE a all weather chopper within 10mins of the location or 4WDs on patrol in the middle of nowhere],and manpower[rural stations closed or being serviced by a Div HQ 30 kilcks away]to do this.

It would be up to us on the ground to gather evidence of poaching activity in our beats.That means video evidence of people shooting deer,leaving gallroach lying around,spent shell cases,vechicle numbers,and hopefully them being stupid enough to pattern themselves and have a standard mode of operation.Especially what time or days would they be likely to hit a specific area again.
Hopefully with that kind of evidence you might be able to convinve the NPWS/ Gardai that you and they can catch these people without too much bother.

The best way INMHO to knock poaching a severe blow in Ireland would require an undercover sting operation.This has been done by the various US fish and game depts with some fantastic results.Even for catching unscrouplus "rack hunters"
in which a crooked game dealer appears and will buy every and any carcass,irrespective of season and condition.Before long all the people who are shooting for profit illegally will be in to sell the carcasses ,and it is only a question of getting names,places,calibres etc.Thats just a very broad outline..
However it would require experianced UC personel,money and a will power of the PTB and the shooting community to set this up.All sadly lacking here at the moment.:(

buckshotbrolan

pedroeibar1 wrote: »

tfox and– the law is clear over here, it is quoted in my post, and called Section 44 of the 1976 Wildlife Act
Kildare 17hmr – read the above Section before making pronouncements.
Buckshotbrolan – why should I leave poachers alone? They are stealing birds that we reared, fed, nourished and protected. What would you do if I came into your garden and started to dig up your plants and load them in to my car? None of the gardai around here would take the view of ‘leave them alone’ – phone the station, say what is happening, ask the name of the garda you are speaking to and also state that you want the call logged.
I can see where Grizz is coming from, but by not taking a stand in the face of wrongdoing is what has got this country into the mess it is in.
Rs
P.

look I don't condone poaching, but when you release birds into the wild then they at that point become wild game and not yours anymore. It would be a different story if they were still penned in and on your property. It sounds quite childish to phone the gards and say " some one is shooting my wild birds". They have more inportant things to worrie about.
You will never stop people doing it and there are a lot of greedy feckers out there who don't play by the rules. The only thing I can say is be the bigger man and don't go down to there level.

lamper35

has anyone here actually never poached in there entire lives..now think about it poaching includes land u have shot on without askin:D like out on ur own permission and seeing game in another peice of land next too u that u only had too jump the fence:D

Jonty

lamper35 wrote: »

999 is for emergency only

You don't consider armed tresspass an emergency? Where are you? Iraq? What if you don't know the copshop number?

bunny shooter

Jonty wrote: »

You don't consider armed tresspass an emergency? .............

Unless the firearm is/has been pointing at me/mine I wouldn't.

If it's ONLY been pointed at game or vermin it hardly constitutes an emergency response from Gardai?

It wasn't me!

lamper35 wrote: »

has anyone here actually never poached in there entire lives..now think about it poaching includes land u have shot on without askin:D like out on ur own permission and seeing game in another peice of land next too u that u only had too jump the fence:D

Yeah, that's poaching alright, and I've not done it, nor would I.

Jonty

bunny shooter wrote: »

Unless the firearm is/has been pointing at me/mine I wouldn't.

If it's ONLY been pointed at game or vermin it hardly constitutes an emergency response from Gardai?

Bunny, I suppose from my point of view, having horses accidentally shot by poachers warrants the use of an emergency response.

lamper35

bunny shooter wrote: »

Unless the firearm is/has been pointing at me/mine I wouldn't.

If it's ONLY been pointed at game or vermin it hardly constitutes an emergency response from Gardai?

totally agreed with bunny.....were gone from lads out poaching a pheasent too ringing an emergency line for armed trespass....cud imagine what the law would think of hunting if everyone was ringing for emergency response for someone out hunting without askin

bunny shooter

Jonty wrote: »

Bunny, I suppose from my point of view, having horses accidentally shot by poachers warrants the use of an emergency response.

:eek: ah! now I see where you're coming from Ya, suppose that is a bit more urgent than a lad shooting a pheasant

bunny shooter

It wasn't me! wrote: »

Yeah, that's poaching alright, and I've not done it, nor would I.

And even if ya did, not that ya would, you'd never admit to it here :P

lamper35

It wasn't me! wrote: »

Yeah, that's poaching alright, and I've not done it, nor would I.

good man:D

Dusty87

bunny shooter wrote: »

And even if ya did, not that ya would, you'd never admit to it here :P

Its a pity i can only thank that once:D