Where are the women?

Qualitymark

Is it just that the life of a radio presenter is empty and awful, or is there some secret reason why there are (outside of RTE) so few female presenters?

GSF

Qualitymark wrote: »

Is it just that the life of a radio presenter is empty and awful, or is there some secret reason why there are (outside of RTE) so few female presenters?

They all work for RTE!

Bard

There's an article (from May this year) by Úna Mullally of the Tribune that might interest you:

From: http://www.tribune.ie/magazine/article/2010/may/02/final-edition-radio-gaga-where-are-all-the-women-o/
Somewhere between 80 and 90% of programmes on the main stations are presented by men. Una Mullally spoke to the biggest names in the industry to find out why female voices are so marginalised on air

Has Irish radio killed the female star? With recent schedule changes across national radio, women are once again on the fringes of radio broadcasting. We crunched the numbers and found an astonishing gender imbalance on our airwaves, in spite of female presenters fronting some of the most popular programmes – Morning Ireland, Drivetime,
Marian Finucane. So why is this? Why are women so marginalised in Irish radio? Is it an agenda driven by listeners or programming directors? Do we not want to hear female voices, and where does that perception come from? Are women themselves at fault for not making as much progression in radio as their male counterparts?

For several quite vague and often historically ingrained reasons, there is a reluctance to flood the radiowaves with female voices. Rarely does a station allow for female voices to be 'back to back' (as in two programmes presented by women one after the other), whereas this is never a problem for male presenters. Just look at the RTé Radio One morning schedule: a female-strong Morning Ireland is immediately followed by Ryan Tubridy, Pat Kenny, Ronan Collins, Sean O'Rourke, Joe Duffy and Derek Mooney. Gender balance returns in the form of Mary Wilson on Drivetime, before the men take over again; Darragh Maloney and Damien O'Meara on Sport at 7, Sean Rocks on Arena, John Creedon, and then eventually Rachael English hosts The Late Debate, followed by Alf McCarthy on Late Date.

When programmes are analysed in terms of how much content is male-led (as in, either wholly presented by men or a male presenter being the most dominant voice) the figures are shocking.

Eighty percent of RTé Radio One's regular programmes are male-led and 80% of 2fm's programmes are male-led. Newstalk has 10 weekday programmes, none of which are presented solely by women, although Claire Byrne co-presents Breakfast. The weekend schedule is a little more female friendly, with three of the 11 programmes presented by women. Overall, 84% of content is presented by men. On its weekday shows, Today FM has just one daily female presenter, Alison Curtis. The station has 16 weekend shows and just three are presented by women. Overall, 90% of its programmes are presented by men. Over on 4FM, just one of that station's 25 programmes is presented by a woman.

Many members of station management and presenters we quizzed about the reasons for gender imbalance in their schedules simply said, "I don't know". It's an issue that all radio folk think about, but answers seem difficult to find.

"Your points are accurate," Today FM CEO Willie O'Reilly said in an email. "Without being defensive, 70% of Today FM news staff are female, 90% sales staff in Today FM are female; 90% non execs of FTSE 100 companies are probably male. It is interesting how one gender can dominate one sector."

RTé valiantly denied there was a gender bias as large as we put to it. We analysed 47 regular programmes on RTé Radio One and, of those, 80% were male-led (as in the primary voice was a male one). A spokesman for RTé said: "I think you are dramatically underestimating the presence of female voices on RTÉ Radio One, and substantially underestimating the number of female presenters", before listing off female voices on radio which included main presenters (whom we had taken into account), contributors and reporters.

"For me, it's about great presenters," Claire Duignan, the managing director of radio in RTé said. "Male or female isn't the issue, being brilliant is."

So are there simply not enough brilliant female presenters? Perhaps the gender imbalance is to do with the popularity of opinion-led radio. As Miriam O'Callaghan, presenter of Miriam Meets on RTé Radio One, explained, "Some of our finest male broadcasters love bleating on about their opinions, going on rants, if you will, about what they think. We [women] don't do that as much; we're different animals. But we are great listeners, so radio would benefit from more women." Would an audience be inclined to listen to 10-minute rants at the top of a programme from a woman? Perhaps not.

Apart from opinion-led radio, the roles of women in radio are quite different to those of men. Occasionally, as with some of RTé's most popular programmes – The Sunday Show, Drivetime and Morning Ireland – women are in charge and on an even keel with men in a gender-blind position. But often, women in radio will be relegated to talking about girly issues, a topic that turns off and irritates male listeners, and indeed many female listeners. There seems to still be that urge to make a programme presented by a woman very female specific, as if women only have an authority on 'women's issues'.

Another role is the 'sidekick', a role created to allow for a female voice in a programme, but only as light relief or to display a kooky or almost clueless element that reinforces the male presenter's authority.

It's important to note that throughout the radio programmes we analysed, it was often the case that two men presented a programme, or the show was male led with an accompanying female voice, but rarely were there two female presenters.

Then there's the voice issue. There is a perception that listeners prefer to hear lower-register voices on the radio. That's why, even if women are placed in a primetime slot in the schedule, they will tend to have a lower-register voice than the average woman in an attempt to appease the listener on what is apparently an issue.

Alison Curtis of Today FM, who studied anthropological linguistics, isn't sure this is actually a legitimate reason to exclude women from schedules. "I think about it often: why is this the case? People quote studies, that you could never find any evidence of, that men and women prefer male voices." She called the current lack of women on radio schedules "worrying" and added, "I can't answer whether it's direct sexism. Sometimes it feels as if it is, but I can't say that definitively."

Another national radio presenter said: "I think there is a long-held myth that men don't like women to listen to... and women are seen as 'difficult' if they ask questions about it."

All of the female broadcasters we spoke to talked about the self-imposed limits that women sometimes restrict themselves to, saying they don't go for things in broadcasting with the same amount of confidence or ego that their male counterparts often do.

A top female presenter on national radio who didn't want to be named believed this was part of the problem with gender imbalance. "Men are allowed to show ambition and really push," she said. "Women are much more self-critical. Men tend to be more comfortable with learning on the hop whereas women only want to put themselves forward for things they're comfortable with." Alison Curtis agreed: "Can you sit there and blame CEOs when there might not be a hunger there at the same level [for women] that there is from a guy's perspective?" O'Callaghan concurred to some extent: "I think we do impose our own glass ceiling. Sometimes I think we are too self-critical and we lack confidence, whereas a lot of men don't think like that; they think, 'I'm going to make it'."

Everyone we spoke to said that positive discrimination wasn't the way forward, but that there needed to be conversations about why so few women – especially outside RTé, which in fairness is streets ahead of other national stations – are rising to the top.

"Listeners want good presenters, vibrant personalities, insightful observers and strong interviewers," says Clare Duignan. "I'm not interested in achieving gender balance for the sake of it; I'm interested in good radio."

Listen without prejudice: let's hear it for the girls

Jacqui Hurley

One of the rising stars in RTé broadcasting, Hurley took up co-presenting duties with Con Murphy last year on Radio One's Sunday Sport when she was just 24. The former CBS intern has since shown that she can hold her own and then some.

Michelle Doherty

Phantom 105.2 has traditionally been a nursery where other broadcasters poach presenters from. Doherty has her work cut out with a mammoth four-hour slot every weekday, but handles it extremely well.

Aoife Barry

One of the many women on the digital station RTé 2XM's schedule, Corkonian Aoife Barry's music knowledge has seen her contribute to RTé arts show Arena as well as other journalistic endeavours.

Shona Ryan

Ryan's great voice and likeable personality have seen her excel at Spin 103.8's three-hour Spin At Work midday show.

Kathryn Thomas

Although we're more used to seeing Thomas on lifestyle television programming, she has been earmarked for progression in radio, and her recent stint filling in for Ryan Tubridy was very well received.

Qualitymark

That's more or less what's been striking me, yes. And even the presenters that do exist are mostly glorified DJs - they don't say much apart from giggly amn't-I-ditsy goings-on. Very strange, since we all have witty, intelligent female friends.

heybaby

Purely and simply the powers that be, in the radio industry as in many other sectors are male and they prefer the male voice / viewpoint / personality on air.

Bard

heybaby wrote: »

Purely and simply the powers that be, in the radio industry as in many other sectors are male and they prefer the male voice / viewpoint / personality on air.

Not in news they don't.

Oh and not in youth radio stations either (Spin / iRadio for example).

In fact, where are you getting this 'fact' from?

Poly

"For me, it's about great presenters," Claire Duignan, the managing director of radio in RTé said. "Male or female isn't the issue, being brilliant is."

Yeah Claire, RTE is stuffed with brilliance:rolleyes:

mrsdewinter

As a woman, it pains me to write this but I think women's voices just don't work on radio.

The debate over who would take on Gerry Ryan's show brought it all home for me. As a colleague pointed out, at 9am, women want to listen to their "radio husband", the guy who can make them laugh without leaving their dirty jocks on the bedroom floor.

Away from that morning slot, with a few exceptions (Marian, Aoife Kavanagh, Aine Lawlor, Karen Colemann on Newstalk, Michelle Doherty, erm...), women's voices just go through my skull, like nails on a blackboard.

I hate feeling that way, but that's how it is.

Qualitymark

mrsdewinter wrote: »

As a woman, it pains me to write this but I think women's voices just don't work on radio.

This used to be a common perception of newsreaders too - "Women's voices don't carry the authority for news," a friend said to me once. ("What, you wouldn't believe the news?" I asked.)

Women's voices are so rare on radio - go on, click around from station to station - that our ears just aren't used to them. When there are more female presenters, this will cease.

At the moment, the independent stations are liable to choose ditsy silly-me girls if they're looking for a presenter, rather than good hard journalists.

constitutionus

mrsdewinter wrote: »

As a woman, it pains me to write this but I think women's voices just don't work on radio.

The debate over who would take on Gerry Ryan's show brought it all home for me. As a colleague pointed out, at 9am, women want to listen to their "radio husband", the guy who can make them laugh without leaving their dirty jocks on the bedroom floor.

Away from that morning slot, with a few exceptions (Marian, Aoife Kavanagh, Aine Lawlor, Karen Colemann on Newstalk, Michelle Doherty, erm...), women's voices just go through my skull, like nails on a blackboard.

I hate feeling that way, but that's how it is.

pretty much this.

the reason theres not many women presenters is no one wants to listen to them.

IMO the reason RTE has so many is as a semi state they can carry them

ya gotta love when theres attempts to stir up some precieved sexism in the industry when the fact is money is their bottom line. you can bet your arse if the most high pitched annoying harridan of a woman was presenting a show that pissed off 90% of male listeners but got 500 thousand listeners everyday , she'd be on air now regardless on ANY of the comercial radio stations as its the ad moola that drives them.

think about it, how many high pitched MALE voices do you hear ? how many thick accents from limerick, kerry and cork ? and how many are we getting that are mid atlantic almost non accented "D fur"s. i mean i dont know about yourselves but i dont know anyone that refer to the gards as "the gourdee".

the reality is the consumer made a choice, and from what ive seen its for low pitched voices - be it male or female- thats why the most sucessful female presenters use that tone. i dont think anyone really CAREs what subject theyre talking about as long as its something they can spend 3 hours or more listening to without getting a migrane.

is it sexist ? no. its a discerning audience . much in the same way ugly people dont get on telly, and you dont see people writing articles about how "worrying" that is.

its just a given from the rating people like looking at attractive casts, its the same here. people like listening to a certain type of voice and males have an easier time providing it.

whether its a social thing built up over the centurys or a genetic deference hardwired into us i dont know, but its the reality the business has to deal with and all the PC stuff aint gonna change that.

Qualitymark

You do see ugly people on telly - lots of them.

'The consumer' hasn't made a choice - consumers don't get to vote on who's hired as presenters. The RTE programmes presented by women aren't 'carried' - Marian Finucane, for instance, has an immense listenership.

constitutionus

really.

looked at hollyoaks recently ?

newstalk FLOODED the airwaves with female presenters to begin with. almost ALL of them got dropped.

the fact stands if the people listened in their droves the comercials wouldve kept the presenters but the listeners voted with their ears.

marion finucane is pretty much the ONLY female presenter on RTE that has a high pitched voice and invarialby she tones it down , limiting it to the occasional shrill outburst at the begining . ALL the others on Radio one are low pitched.

this ISNT limited to radio. how many high pitched news anchors do you see on the news? on sky news ? on the BBC ?

theres a reason for this.

Qualitymark

Women's voices generally have dropped in pitch since the 1950s - but this isn't about pitch, it's about quality.

Having only male presenters limits the quality.

constitutionus

where are you getting that ?

most women i know sound nothing like radio presenters. its incredibly unusual to have such low pitch voice's in a woman.

but on the substantive issue , its NOT about quality. outside RTE its about money.

patently women cant bring it or comercials would be all over em and at the end of the day thats the bottom line to them. untill women can find some formula to bring in massive amounts of money in as ad revenue theyre not going to get anywhere.

thats just the industry. no one ever said it would be fair. particularly as what will ultimately decide a presenters fate is the public, who invariably arent conscerened with political correctness or quality.

X-Factor proves that one.

basically its comercial darwinsim.

Qualitymark

constitutionus wrote: »

but on the substantive issue , its NOT about quality. outside RTE its about money.

patently women cant bring it or comercials would be all over em

basically its comercial darwinsim.

Actually, no. Since there are so very few women on radio, it's impossible to discover how many listeners they'd bring in.

It's like the old argument: "Why are there so few women in the financial industries? They're just no good at it, or they'd have the jobs." As soon as that particular barrier was broken, the argument disappeared.

This isn't Darwinism, it's post hoc ergo propter hoc illogicality.

constitutionus

no its not.

women have been given PLENTY of oppertunities on comercial radio over decades.

the public simply dont listen to em outside the low pitch crowd and the DJ sector where you only have to listen to em for 10 mins out of an hour.

what on earth makes you think a comercial station would go out of its way to prevent making money if there was truth in your claims? particularly when you look at how many women are in postions of power in the media.

newstalk is RAN by a woman.

yet they removed near all their female presenters.

mike65

Qualitymark wrote: »

You do see ugly people on telly - lots of them.

'The consumer' hasn't made a choice - consumers don't get to vote on who's hired as presenters. The RTE programmes presented by women aren't 'carried' - Marian Finucane, for instance, has an immense listenership.

The slot has the listeners not the personality - Charlie Bird spent a chunk of the summer filling in for La Finucane. You could stick a baboon in the chair throughout the daytime on RTE and the "listened to yesterday" figures would hardly move.

As for the broader issue, find the talent, train them up and then introduce them over time, do not throw the likes of Sile Seoige thrown in at the deep end with predictable results. Orla Barry exemplifies all that is wrong with the current use of women, her show is all thats terrible about women on radio. Nattering, gossipy nonsense which I doubt appeals anymore to the female part of the audience than then male. Where is the next Olivia O'Leary? Its a real pity she isn't on radio in a regular current affairs slot.

Qualitymark

mike65 wrote: »

Where is the next Olivia O'Leary? Its a real pity she isn't on radio in a regular current affairs slot.

She's probably in the newsroom reporting, and doing a great job - but her bosses will never think of putting her into a radio show. Instead, they'll look around and say "Hmm. Who have we got who's identical to the last guy?"

JonathanAnon

mrsdewinter wrote: »

The debate over who would take on Gerry Ryan's show brought it all home for me. As a colleague pointed out, at 9am, women want to listen to their "radio husband", the guy who can make them laugh without leaving their dirty jocks on the bedroom floor.

lol... I dont agree with you about the voices though... Some of the radio women have nice voices... Aoife Kavanagh, Rachael English... And I agree with the people above.. Kathryn was excellent when she filled in for that twit who shall not be mentioned near christmas time (lest it detract from my generally merry decorum) .. they should give her the job full time..

I think she would be better than both Tubridy and Murray (who has been a let down)..

Travismccoy

constitutionus wrote: »

newstalk is RAN by a woman

Not anymore it's not.