Global Pharmaceutical Centre of Excellence

Red Hand

This kind of passed me by.

http://gpce.ie/

It hopes to become an global R+D centre for the treatment of malaria/HIV/TB/Nutrition. It would provide over 4000 jobs in Tralee, many of them graduates from the sciences (not sure we even have that many available science graduates).

What do ye think? It would be quite a boost...if it actually happens like they think, then it will make Tralee IT much more important than it has been in the past as regards science courses.

5live

Jeremiah 16:1 wrote: »

This kind of passed me by.

http://gpce.ie/

It hopes to become an global R+D centre for the treatment of malaria/HIV/TB/Nutrition. It would provide over 4000 jobs in Tralee, many of them graduates from the sciences (not sure we even have that many available science graduates).

What do ye think? It would be quite a boost...if it actually happens like they think, then it will make Tralee IT much more important than it has been in the past as regards science courses.

Good luck if you think a peripheral area with poor road access is going to get enough government support for those jobs to appear. And im speaking as someone qualified to work there and live in the area

Has construction begun and who is funding this?

It is scheduled to open in 2013.

A similar IDA backed idea proposed for the east side of Galway city didn't go ahead as the local authority couldn't guarantee sufficient reliable clean water. (that was the excuse at least)

bleg

Is this joke still going on?

Red Hand

5live wrote: »

Good luck if you think a peripheral area with poor road access is going to get enough government support for those jobs to appear. And im speaking as someone qualified to work there and live in the area

I don't think anything. I just posted it here as I thought it would be news to some (like me).

I'm from near there, and like you, qualified to work there. My understanding is that it is primarily an R+D centre, not a plant that is dealing in huge volumes (which would make more sense for it to be located near to a port).

I do agree with you though in that alot of work as regards road network is neccessary, though the Castleisland bypass was a start.

Anita Blow

I wish them luck. Would be a great boost for the country and it's not an impossible idea. See they've already put a lot of work into the website

xavidub

This idea has been kicked around for a couple of years. It sounds great in principle but makes the mistake of focusing on creating employment rather than overpaying bankers, and as such, is of no real interest to Fianna Fail.

ei.sdraob

Why do they need to build more facilities when the country is littered in empty buildings

is this going to endup like that enterprise ireland white elephant here in galway

MrMatisse

Ah positivity.....

ei.sdraob

MrMatisse wrote: »

Ah positivity.....

how much is this "positivity" costing the taxpayer

Holybejaysus

As far as I know, the people proposing this were meeting today with the government to secure 40 million euros for its development. I have no idea how that meeting went.

Is it fair to say that there is quite a lot of jealousy and bitterness from our sophisticated brethen in Cork and Dublin because Kerry might end up with a world renowned centre of excellence?

One gets the impression that certain people would prefer if the project failed rather than let the 'oiks' in Kerry develop something worthwhile. Can't have the peasants showing up the big time charlies of the FF mafia how to actually get something done.

later12

ei.sdraob wrote: »

how much is this "positivity" costing the taxpayer

While honesty is usually the most cost efficient policy, it has to be said that positivity is usually the one that bails out negativity.

This seems like a perfectly fine venture from the outside, looks exciting, I hope they do well.

ei.sdraob

later10 wrote: »

While honesty is usually the most cost efficient policy, it has to be said that positivity is usually the one that bails out negativity.

This seems like a perfectly fine venture from the outside, looks exciting, I hope they do well.

so how much is this "fine venture" costing the taxpayer?

later12

Hasn't cost the tax payer anything as yet it seems. The Government don't seem to have formally committed anything, but the company are also seeking funding in Saudi Arabia.
While I can't see any reason to get very excited just yet, I honestly don't understand the outright negativity about potentially significant job creation either.

Anita Blow

ei.sdraob wrote: »

so how much is this "fine venture" costing the taxpayer?

"“We are looking for a government investment on which the government will receive a return,” said Mr Barry."
Financial assistance is also being sought from two foreign governments including that of Saudi Arabia."
No figure yet but I'd be supportive of Government investment in it. It'll create jobs and do wonders for the area.

RichardAnd

I see this as being a good thing and, like an above poster, I can't fathom why people would be negative about what seems to be a good idea. But let's not get ahead of ourselves either. Those 4k jobs are like to mostly go to immigrant professionals and not paddy the unemployed plumber. I'd also forget about Tralee IT ever becoming anything other than a glorified local college.

But that being said, it COULD give us a few hundred or even a few thousand more people working and paying taxes.

djpbarry

ei.sdraob wrote: »

Why do they need to build more facilities when the country is littered in empty buildings

Why are DIT planning a new campus when the county is littered with empty buildings?

RichardAnd wrote: »

Those 4k jobs are like to mostly go to immigrant professionals and not paddy the unemployed plumber.

I would imagine that, while there will be a significant immigrant workforce, most of the employees will be Irish. But that’s not all that important – 4,000 jobs will have a significant knock-on effect in the local economy.

ei.sdraob

djpbarry wrote: »

Why are DIT planning a new campus when the county is littered with empty buildings?.

Good question, how much for the Anglo building down the docks :P


as for "good for the economy" that argument has been abused to death by this stage, NAMA was "good for the economy", bailouts where "good for the economy", wasting billions in subsidising industries such as racing, wind are "good for the economy", taxing people more "is good for the economy"

at what point do yee people say
"hey wait a minute, where is the cost/benefit analysis and the data to backup the 'good for the economy' thesis of undertaking XYZ"

sheesh has nothing been learned?

Anita Blow

And you think that these people are planning to do this to make a loss?
Do you think foreign governments and other investors will back the plan, knowing it won't make them a return?

Red Hand

Life Lesson number 1: Never try.

ei.sdraob

Anita Blow wrote: »

And you think that these people are planning to do this to make a loss?

if its the public money at stake, then where is the incentive to care? have you not learned by now that no one is ever held responsible when its public money being wasted by the million?
where is the cost benefit analysis? why cant money be raised privately??

Anita Blow wrote: »

And you think that these people are planning to do this to make a loss?
Do you think foreign governments and other investors will back the plan, knowing it won't make them a return?

Why would anyone invest if there is no profit

Anita Blow

ei.sdraob wrote: »

if its the public money at stake, then where is the incentive to care? have you not learned by now that no one is ever held responsible when its public money being wasted by the million?
where is the cost benefit analysis? why cant money be raised privately??

It's not being fully funded by the Irish government. They are looking for an investment from the government, not for the government to pay for it all. Money is being raised privately, hence them looking for investment from abroad.
The government has not yet agreed to invest money in it. How do you know they haven't asked for a cost benefit analysis before investing money? You're jumping the gun to find negative aspects in what is a good investment. They're already looking to create 300 jobs in January.

ei.sdraob wrote: »

Why would anyone invest if there is no profit

That's my point. They've received interest from investors and the government. Do you think they'd be interested if it didn't benefit them somehow?
Do you think the people behind this plan didn't already check to see if this would be profitable or worthwhile?

ei.sdraob

Anita Blow wrote: »

Do you think the people behind this plan didn't already check to see if this would be profitable or worthwhile?

if its profitable and worthwhile then why is the taxpayer being asked to pay at a time when IMF are running the country and the pensions and NTMA reserves have to be spent first?

how can anyone justify between spending public taxpayers money on this while with the other hand closing wards in a hospital or cutting disability pay to someone?
The state has no money and with the money its borrowing at high interest it has to keep the basics running, there is no free lunch, if public money is wasted on this someone somewhere will suffer.

i don't think many of yee here have realised yet the implications of being run by IMF and having to borrow at such high rates.

Anita Blow

ei.sdraob wrote: »

how can anyone justify between spending public taxpayers money on this while with the other hand closing wards in a hospital or cutting disability pay to someone?

Because that's the whole point of Enterprise Ireland and the other various State Agencies that deal with industry?
You'd be the same person who would criticise the government for only increasing taxes and cutting services without providing any sort of stimulus.

The government has said that it will provide support to the project through it's state agencies. The main backer, Pharmadel, has said that it is not looking for Government Funding. It is already in talks with 3 sovereign wealth funds.

later12

ei.sdraob wrote: »

how can anyone justify between spending public taxpayers money on this while with the other hand closing wards in a hospital or cutting disability pay to someone?

Where do you think the money is supposed to come from to fund hospital wards? It comes from foreign investors who lend money into the economy and a domestic workforce who contribute inland taxes.

The Government is right to do whatever it can to encourage the above sources of revenue if they can be sustained in the long term. Why you appear to be dismissing this potential source of revenue and investment when you have absolutely no data for or against the project is baffling.

ei.sdraob

Anita Blow wrote: »

You'd be the same person who would criticise the government for only increasing taxes and cutting services without providing any sort of stimulus.

You must be new here

Anita Blow wrote: »

Because that's the whole point of Enterprise Ireland and the other various State Agencies that deal with industry?

Have you ever worked with EI?
I can think of one company top of head funded by EI whose whole purpose is to scam the taxpayers for funding and business plan involves around selling a fictitious product, I have no faith in state "investment" institutions, FAS should have thought us all something by now.

later10 wrote: »

Where do you think the money is supposed to come from to fund hospital wards? It comes from foreign investors who lend money into the economy and a domestic workforce who contribute inland taxes.

The Government is right to do whatever it can to encourage the above sources of revenue if they can be sustained in the long term. Why you appear to be dismissing this potential source of revenue and investment when you have absolutely no data for or against the project is baffling.

I asked three times a simple question, how much will this project cost the taxpayer, as a taxpayer who pays alot of tax i have the right to know, maybe if more people cared and questioned where their money is going to, we wouldn't be here now. Unlike others I have learned not to buy any bull**** about "for the good of the country" anymore without casting a critical eye and questioning the government.

later12

ei.sdraob wrote: »

I asked three times a simple question, how much will this project cost the taxpayer, as a taxpayer who pays alot of tax i have the right to know

But you have surely been given your answer - it hasn't cost the tax payer yet, and there is no such projection because the Government have not decided to contribute a cent in investment. How can you possible go from that simple answer to this line of debate is what is so questionable.

how can anyone justify between spending public taxpayers money on this while with the other hand closing wards in a hospital or cutting disability pay to someone?

as for "good for the economy" that argument has been abused to death by this stage

ei.sdraob

later10 wrote: »

But you have surely been given your answer - it hasn't cost the tax payer yet, and there is no such projection because the Government have not decided to contribute a cent in investment. How can you possible go from that simple answer to this line of debate is what is so questionable.

Good if there is no public money wasted yet then good, now where can I see a cost/benefit analysis of this project which is asking for public money, anything less than 7% return in 10 years would be a waste.

later12

Here's a totally wild idea, perhaps you should email them yourself.

later12

ei.sdraob wrote: »

Good if there is no public money wasted yet then good, now where can I see a cost/benefit analysis of this project which is asking for public money, anything less than 7% return in 10 years would be a waste.

Out of interest, why have you chosen 7% as a lower threshold. Why 7% specifically, without knowing the magnitude of the investment or the nature of the risk? That doesn't make sense.

Anita Blow

ei.sdraob wrote: »

Good if there is no public money wasted yet then good, now where can I see a cost/benefit analysis of this project which is asking for public money, anything less than 7% return in 10 years would be a waste.

Could you please post a source suggesting they are asking for taxpayers money from the government?

Sesshoumaru

Jeremiah 16:1 wrote: »

...What do ye think?...

It's not that I don't think we should aim high. A company like Ryanair shows that we can be global leaders in certain fields. I would however be a little cynical at this stage after hearing numerous times about Ireland being turned into a world leader in X, Y & Z fields, only for nothing to ever materialise. But as long as it's private money what do I care? Good luck to them

Holybejaysus

So what's the latest on the GPCE development? There was a piece in one of the local papers that there is a rival company aiming to set up the same type of facility somewhere else in the world, and that speed is critical if the plan is to succeed. The IDA were coming in for criticism for dragging their heels on the project.

I understand the backers are still waiting for the Government to pledge 40 million in funds towards the development, is there any news of that? Would that have anything to do with the finance bill that is being discussed? I really hope they can get these funds before the government collapses.

But I'd expect nothing less that breath-taking incompetence from our elected officials at this stage...

Aidan1

I understand the backers are still waiting for the Government to pledge 40 million in funds towards the development, is there any news of that?

But I'd expect nothing less that breath-taking incompetence from our elected officials at this stage...

Have you considered that your elected officials may be trying to save €40m of your and my money? If you believe everything you are being told about this, I have a bridge I'd like to sell you.

If this is such a good idea (and given the scale and location, I doubt that it is), then let them off and do it themselves - why should the State take on additional risk? That €40m could be used to keep hospital beds open, or to actually create jobs, rather than to keep this kite in the air.

later12

I wonder if boards was around in 1987, what posters would have been saying about the Finance Act that laid the foundations for the modern IFSC in Dublin, and how they might respond to posters who suggested that Dublin might one day become home to over 7% of the world's hedge funds and that assets with value over $1 trillion would be domiciled in Ireland by way of these funds alone.

The IFSC doesn't prove in itself that this project is therefore going to be a similar success in terms of employment and revenue, but I merely mean to illustrate that it is always very easy to criticise a fledgling business opportunity. And nowhere, I would tentatively suggest, is such criticism right at home than in Ireland. The country, in my opinion, is distinctly anti wealth, anti wealth creation, and perpetually stifling of any real commercial initiative.

I don't particularly believe that the government need to get involved in a venture like this, but I hope that it takes off and that it generates huge successes for those involved with it. I hope they make a billion euro and retire to Cap Ferrat. And if it succeeds, I hope people recall this thread.

Holybejaysus

Aidan1 wrote: »

Have you considered that your elected officials may be trying to save €40m of your and my money? If you believe everything you are being told about this, I have a bridge I'd like to sell you.

If this is such a good idea (and given the scale and location, I doubt that it is), then let them off and do it themselves - why should the State take on additional risk? That €40m could be used to keep hospital beds open, or to actually create jobs, rather than to keep this kite in the air.

I have examined the project for myself, and am convinced that it is sound. And if the government wasn't convinced that the project was likely to succeed, the would have opted out after the initial meeting, wouldn't they? From what I gather, they have all but pledged the money to the GPCE, but are dragging their heels with the paperwork.

Also, do you think that Alan Dukes or former AG David Byrne would be involved with a project that wasn't viable? I am quite confident the project will be a major international success if it develops.

Mucco

The disease areas they're targeting are not hugely commercially attractive. So they'll be relying on funding from charities such as the Bill and Melinda Gates foundation. I wonder do they have any commitments from them?

namenotavailablE

On what evidential basis are you asserting that the "disease areas" are not "hugely commercially attractive" or that the facility will rely on Bill Gates' charitable assistance?
It's an extravagant claim to make, to put it mildly! Have you relevant industrial experience combined with inside knowledge of the precise scope of the project?

Mucco

namenotavailabl wrote: »

On what evidential basis are you asserting that the "disease areas" are not "hugely commercially attractive" or that the facility will rely on Bill Gates' charitable assistance?
It's an extravagant claim to make, to put it mildly! Have you relevant industrial experience combined with inside knowledge of the precise scope of the project?

I don't really think it's that extravagant:

G.P.C.E. Mission Statement
We intend to advance the prevention of all infectious diseases within the global
population with specific emphasis on Malaria, Tuberculosis and HIV / AIDS.
http://gpce.ie/missionstatement.php

A quick look at the pipelines of the top 5 pharma shows very little resource being applied to these areas. Why? - there's little demand in rich countries. Therefore alternative funding is required, hence B+M Gates:
They've put $456m into the malaria vaccine initiative

There's nothing wrong with concentrating on these areas, in fact it's great that they are, but you have to recognise the potential market.

namenotavailablE

There are additional elements to the mission statement which provide a clearer indication of the scope of the project:

• We intend to develop new medical products that will enhance the quality and duration of the human cycle.

• We intend to engage in all forms of Pharmaceutical research and development from molecule to medicine.

• We intend to provide cheaper medicines to Governments and consumers globally.

• We intend to provide the employees and all associates of the GPCE a healthy, secure and progressive work environment.

• We intend to engage with collective Governments and Non Government organisations on assistance, we may provide to the most vulnerable in our societies and this will be validated by the equity we are donating under the combined title of Charity International Shareholding [ CIS ]

Additionally, the various menus on the site suggest a wide range of 'departments' of various medicalareas e.g. cholesterol, Alzheimers etc.
The project's aims seem to be extremely broad in breadth and depth (not speaking as a pharmacologist).

Of course, the business case needs to be carefully assessed before committing hard (and scarce) cash. The information I'm hearing (and I have zero dealings with the project- this is all secondhand information so might not be accurate) is that the Middle eastern sovereign funds are willing to invest substantially in the facility but require a show of 'faith' [read- investment] by the Irish Gov't. Even if the project was to achieve 10% of the headline employment figures, it would represent an enormous boost to the Tralee area.

bleg

Hi guys, I'm a pharmacist, currently conducting research and have previous pharmaceutical manufacturing experience. I don't see this project being viable whatsoever. The company backing the project are tiny fish and are essentially a courier company. A project such as this would be a huge undertaking for even the largest pharmaceutical companies. The timescale is naive and over ambitious. Tralee is not a spot for this type of project, the 3rd level institution is not the best and there is no research hospital nearby. The pharmaceutical companies are currently downsizing and reducing their spending on research. The disease states that they have chosen are very complex and it would take a new research centre decades to get up to speed. If there is going to be billions invested in this centre I find it hard to believe that a paltry 40 million investment from the state is holding the project back.

Comparisons between this and the IFSC are misguided. There was a market for the IFSC, there is none for this. In its current form I cannot see this going ahead.

Mucco

namenotavailabl wrote: »

The project's aims seem to be extremely broad in breadth and depth.

That's actually one of my concerns. The website lists a whole load of therapeutic areas and departments without any further details. It's as if they plucked them out of the air. I'd be very wary until further plans are released.

Over in politics.ie someone has asked the question 'What advantage does Tralee have for this project over anywhere else in the world?' Not knocking Tralee, but it's a good question.

bleg

The question to ask is what does building a huge new facility in Tralee have to offer over using the hectares of unused research space worldwide already built.

namenotavailablE

I'd be very wary until further plans are released.

A valid and correct view- when I heard the project announcement, I was "hopeful-but-utterly-sceptical". While I can't yet believe that it will happen in its entirety, I (want) to think that it might yet happen.

The timescale is naive and over ambitious.

I think it depends on the precise details of what they hope to have up-and-running by the commencement date. The time-lines would obviously have to make sense. I'd agree that there's no way that they will have 4000++ people installed by 2013- to achieve that number would take decades. However, if they had 200+ installed that might be possible.

The fact that they announced their Board of Governors on Jan 1 (I can't access the site to provide a link but it's on the news ticker on the gpce.ie website's homepage) gave a boost to their credibility. The Board seems to contain a number of 'serious candidates' with reputations and credentials. I'd have said that such persons wouldn't have agreed to include their name to the project if they had significant concerns about the proposal. I'd assume that they would have 'asked the questions'/ undertaken appropriate due diligence etc before agreeing to come on board.

I guess it remains to be seen what if anything comes of the proposal but I'll live in hope (or possibly cloud cuckoo-land... time will tell!)

bleg

I'd love to know if the 12 people on the board know that they've been appointed.

namenotavailablE

I'd love to know if the 12 people on the board know that they've been appointed.

Is it realistic to believe that the appointees could be 'in the dark' about this? Surely the consequences would be catastrophic if their good names and reputations were being exploited for commercial gain by the project promoters without their consent.

If it transpired that the appointments were done unilaterally without the other parties accepting the appointment then the whole thing would be an appalling scam. I personally can't imagine that such could be the case.

bleg

It wouldn't be the only thing that would shout "SCAM" about this project.

scientist

I dont think its a scam . They are recruiting in may according to this weeks Kerryman. Glaxosmithkline are involved

They are hiring it seems:
http://www.rte.ie/news/2011/0316/jobs-business.html

Three international pharmaceutical organisations have announced almost 300 new jobs for Kerry, as part of the first phase of the development of a proposed Global Pharmaceutical Centre of Excellence (GPCE) in Tralee.
The GPCE is a €4.7 billion project aimed at establishing a campus of more than 50 small to medium-sized pharmaceutical interests in Tralee, mixing business and academic experiences and skills.
The promoters of the centre believe it has the potential to employ over 4,500 people in the next four years.
282 new jobs over the next 15 months have been announced today by the International Prevention Research Institute (iPRI), Global Research Services (GRS) and Optivia Biotechnology. These are mainly research and development roles.
The new jobs will initially be established by the three organisations at the Centrepoint development in Tralee, but a 32-acre site at the Kerry Technology Park has been identified for the development of the overall campus for which a planning application will be submitted in May.
The centre's promoters say funding for the initial development has already been secured; and talks are on further investment are continuing with a number of sovereign wealth funds, including a group of Middle Eastern investors.
The iPRI is an independent research organisation, which aims to work towards the improvement of health worldwide by identifying critical issues in disease determination and prevention. It is currently based in Lyon, France.
GRS is a US-based privately-owned clinical research organisation providing services to pharmaceutical, biotechnology and medical device companies. US-based Optivia Biotechnology provides services and products to help companies to develop new drugs.

Topper Harley01

Another article here:

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/breaking/2011/0316/breaking46.html

Congratulations to all concerned, this is a great boost for Tralee. And to the Irish economy.


300 jobs to begin with is a fantastic achievement in itself, and badly needed.
Well done Rory Doyle.

scientist

I'm so happy about it. Its fantastic news. Fair play to them all.Great for Kerry. I feel a bit sorry though for all the other counties that will have to come here to get jobs!!!!!!!:D:D:D:D:D:D:D.Dont worry we're alot more welcoming than some counties.And we always wish other counties the very best when jobs are created in their areas.