Sean O'Brien thread

Tim Robbins

This is a thread to discuss Sean O'Brien.

Firstly, as a rugby fan is he a 6 or a 7 or even an 8? I think it's difficult to say. Is best assest is his ball carrying; but is he big enough to be a 6 or an 8?

Secondly, how come he is so amazing at breaking tackles? He's not even that big or fast?

Thirdly, surely O'Brien is a reminder to the branch not to ignore the youths. O'Brien played for Tullow who would have only trained once a week. When he was a young lad he would have been going for academy contract against lads who train 6 days a week with the best coaches going and used to playing more competitive rugby. Imagine how could he had to be to stand out? I remember reading somewhere that when O'Brien was going for trials he felt all the school lads knew each other and wouldn't pass him the ball.

Imagine how easy he could have given the sport up? Or got sick of the branch like what happened with Hagen?

Fair play O'Brien you are an inspiration.

joseywhales

Once a week?

We trained twice a week with club and once with school, playing two matches a week, not to mention the fact he would have trained for gaelic twice a week aswell 12 months of the year on three or four different teams.

The standard was often **** enough but once a week? I don't think anyone at any level trains once a week.

Gijoe

joseywhales wrote: »

Once a week?

We trained twice a week with club and once with school, playing two matches a week, not to mention the fact he would have trained for gaelic twice a week aswell 12 months of the year on three or four different teams.

The standard was often **** enough but once a week? I don't think anyone at any level trains once a week.

+1

hard to know what position is his best. He's not a typical 7 like Brussow or Pocock but he's great running the ball. I'd say he's more 6/8.

Tim Robbins

joseywhales wrote: »

Once a week?

We trained twice a week with club and once with school, playing two matches a week, not to mention the fact he would have trained for gaelic twice a week aswell 12 months of the year on three or four different teams.

The standard was often **** enough but once a week? I don't think anyone at any level trains once a week.

Good club. But usually youths would only train once a week. If even.

I think he played Gaa alright which is good for fitness but it's a different sport with different skills and different training.

CouchSmart

I think he's a 6, 7 and 8, though I reckon 8 would be his best position. Unfortunately there's a certain person who already has a fairly tight grip on that jersey for both Leinster and Ireland.

From Leinster's perspective he's the pefect compliment to Jennings and Heaslip. While most blindsides are expected to be good lineout options O'Brien doesn't need to be as Heaslip is an immense lineout operator from 8. Jennings gets through a phenomenal amount of work at the breakdown and so O'Brien is able to save energy for all the carrying he does.

For Ireland it becomes more complicated because at 6 you have the fantastic Ferris who along with Jamie is one of our best players and as such we'd be foolish to drop either. That only leaves the 7 jersey up for grabs, where the wonderful Wally has led the way for many years, though this year his form has certainly dipped. A lot of people will say the O'Brien isn't playing 7 for Leinster and that he can't play there but, alas, they would be wrong. 7 was his primary position no more than 12 months ago and he excelled playing there, great at the breakdown if perhaps lacking a little with his link play. Fast forward to the present and O'Brien has slotted into 6 to fill Leinster's needs but don't be fooled he'll never forget how to play at 7.

With regards his ability to break tackles I'd say it has somthing to do with his centre of gravity being so low down matched with his core strength and explosive acceleration.

Fantastic player.

bamboozle

he not taller than Heaslip who i'd say is 6'2 max, but what SOB has is natural strength and explosive power.

what's been most enjoying to see this season is the huge improvement in his hands which was without doubt his weakness.

once again his performances since the Nov internationals have shown what a poor decision it was of Kidney not to involve him more.

Tim Robbins

CouchSmart wrote: »

I think he's a 6, 7 and 8, though I reckon 8 would be his best position. Unfortunately there's a certain person who already has a fairly tight grip on that jersey for both Leinster and Ireland.

From Leinster's perspective he's the pefect compliment to Jennings and Heaslip. While most blindsides are expected to be good lineout options O'Brien doesn't need to be as Heaslip is an immense lineout operator from 8. Jennings gets through a phenomenal amount of work at the breakdown and so O'Brien is able to save energy for all the carrying he does.

For Ireland it becomes more complicated because at 6 you have the fantastic Ferris who along with Jamie is one of our best players and as such we'd be foolish to drop either. That only leaves the 7 jersey up for grabs, where the wonderful Wally has led the way for many years, though this year his form has certainly dipped. A lot of people will say the O'Brien isn't playing 7 for Leinster and that he can't play there but, alas, they would be wrong. 7 was his primary position no more than 12 months ago and he excelled playing there, great at the breakdown if perhaps lacking a little with his link play. Fast forward to the present and O'Brien has slotted into 6 to fill Leinster's needs but don't be fooled he'll never forget how to play at 7.

With regards his ability to break tackles I'd say it has somthing to do with his centre of gravity being so low down matched with his core strength and explosive acceleration.

Fantastic player.

Gleeson was an incredible out and out 7 besides that time when he came from injury and took a while to get his form back.

Jennings was also absolutely class but I think has been a bit rusty the last few season. His best form was for the tigers and the season before and just after that.

CouchSmart

Tim Robbins wrote: »

Gleeson was an incredible out and out 7 besides that time when he came from injury and took a while to get his form back.

Jennings was also absolutely class but I think has been a bit rusty the last few season. His best form was for the tigers and the season before and just after that.

Jennings was one of Leinster's best players on Saturday, if not the best. As much as I hate this saying, he does all of the unseen work, though if you know where to look it's not all that unseen. Even Schmidt noted him as the best performer against Clermont.

Tim Robbins

CouchSmart wrote: »

Jennings was one of Leinster's best players on Saturday, if not the best. As much as I hate this saying, he does all of the unseen work, though if you know where to look it's not all that unseen. Even Schmidt noted him as the best performer against Clermont.

That's very interesting. It's impossible to see everything that goes on in a game and we all look out for our special piece. I'm always looking at a ref's positioning.

Do you think Jennings is at the same level he was a few years ago?

CouchSmart

Tim Robbins wrote: »

That's very interesting. It's impossible to see everything that goes on in a game and we all look out for our special piece. I'm always looking at a ref's positioning.

Do you think Jennings is at the same level he was a few years ago?

It's hard to say really. He had a poor enough season last year but the 3 month suspension didn't help. I would probably describe him as more refined now than he was 3 or 4 years ago.

sickpuppy

O Brien is a super player and its ashame he didnt get more international game time.
As has been said hes not a ground hog seven but he has to be in the irish team.
He nearly looks as wide as he is tall hes like abeefed up Darcy breaking tackles and making ground.
As much as i love David Wallace he looks to be on the way out he cant go on forever.
People forget that Sean o BRIEN ws badly injured in feburary he was in a bed beside me in casualty in Vincents with a broken leg i tried to con a few nurses i was playing for leinster but to no avail.

Kidney youd think has to play him in the six nations youd think especially if he keeps up his blistering form.
However mr conservative may not start him considering how little time he and Mike Ross got in the autumn.
He needs to be played now.

Tim Robbins

sickpuppy wrote: »

O Brien is a super player and its ashame he didnt get more international game time.
As has been said hes not a ground hog seven but he has to be in the irish team.
He nearly looks as wide as he is tall hes like abeefed up Darcy breaking tackles and making ground.
As much as i love David Wallace he looks to be on the way out he cant go on forever.
People forget that Sean o BRIEN ws badly injured in feburary he was in a bed beside me in casualty in Vincents with a broken leg i tried to con a few nurses i was playing for leinster but to no avail.

Kidney youd think has to play him in the six nations youd think especially if he keeps up his blistering form.
However mr conservative may not start him considering how little time he and Mike Ross got in the autumn.
He needs to be played now.

If you have a big man like Ferris it's got to better than O'Brien for certain aspects of the game. for example, more weight in mauls and better defense at pillars and all that stuff.

The best ground hog 7 I think was Gleeson when fit or Jennings on form. I don't see Wallace or O'Brien as being a specialist in this area.

Maybe O'Brien is another Wallace. World class ball carrier but not sure what he's best position is. Also we got to remember this is Heineken which is a level below international.

Leinster play a certain type of Rugby where the point of attack keeps changing. There's more kicking at test rugby and things are usually more controlled.

stephen_n

Long term he is our most viable option as 7 not because he is too small to play 6 or 8 but because we have less candidates for 7 than those two positions. It is irrelevant though as he needs to be in the Irish team now to get him preped for the WC!

Tim Robbins

stephen_n wrote: »

Long term he is our most viable option as 7 not because he is too small to play 6 or 8 but because we have less candidates for 7 than those two positions. It is irrelevant though as he needs to be in the Irish team now to get him preped for the WC!

7 usually isn't a ball carrier though - is it?

McCaw and Poppim are link men and ground hogs. Different skills? What you think?

CouchSmart

Tim Robbins wrote: »

7 usually isn't a ball carrier though - is it?

McCaw and Poppim are link men and ground hogs. Different skills? What you think?

I think both are carriers. I was told when I was younger that sixes run through people while sevens run through gaps. Typically the 7 is the smarter ball carrier.

I think O'Brien can adapt his game fairly well to suit all 3 positions in the back row. He should be given a game in the first team (Ireland) to see how he does, rather than writing him off for an average performance in an under-strength, miss-firing team.

Tim Robbins

CouchSmart wrote: »

I think both are carriers. I was told when I was younger that sixes run through people while sevens run through gaps. Typically the 7 is the smarter ball carrier.

I think O'Brien can adapt his game fairly well to suit all 3 positions in the back row. He should be given a game in the first team (Ireland) to see how he does, rather than writing him off for an average performance in an under-strength, miss-firing team.

If the seven is carrying in the game, he's getting tackled and not going to be doing the ground hog work and the link work. That would be my thinking.

yimrsg

People seem to look for a seven who can link up play or like McCaw/ Pocock/ etc nick turnovers. For many years Ireland have had Wallace who isn't a typical 7 internationally but is/was on his day a lethal ball carrier. A certain special something about him that he brought to the table. O'Brien is certainly showing that same trait. SO'B is also showing a penchant for breaking the tackle also. I would love to see support runners anticipating that and be there for the offload. He had 3 offloads versus Clermont in the aviva.

Yes he has chopped and changed positionally but since the rules governing the breakdown could change again and if he was a purebreed 7 he might have his effectiveness reduced and fallen behind the times and have to adapt once more.

In a back row a lot of it comes down to combinations that work cohesively. Croft and Ferris are both 6's but are hugely different players. Croft is adept at lineouts and very mobile but Ferris would be more a classic 6. England played moody/worsely/haskell/easter in there and they never were going to need another grafter/donkey:P, so Croft suits their back row well.

Ferris and Heaslip do tremendous work in rucks/tackles and a fair share of ball carrying. Also Heaslip is a good lineout option and Ferris is deceptively quick. Having another player with the same skillset (you would hope) keep them more fresh but could also lessen their preceived impact. Maybe have them focused towards:
Ferris - tackling,
Heaslip - rucking and
O'Brien - ball carrying.

Wallace has also been the senior partner in the backrow for so long that I would imagine there is a vacuum there in his absense so those playing there would have to adjust accordingly and need the necessary time.

CouchSmart

Tim Robbins wrote: »

If the seven is carrying in the game, he's getting tackled and not going to be doing the ground hog work and the link work. That would be my thinking.

The ground hog stuff is more of a defensive thing. In attack it's generally the tight five who clear out with a back row following in to protect and present the ball. Carrying is being a link man really, carry for a few meters then pass or offload.

In all truth though, these specialised jobs for each position is quickly becoming a thing of the past, what with professionalism demanding everyone be good at everything. Look at NZ, all there forwards are link men.

joseywhales

To be honest all three of heaslip,ferris,o'brien can ruck,tackle,carry as well as almost any other backrow in the world, obviously some stand out for really excelling in one facet of the game but the main thing is that the players are versatile and strong in all areas and these players are imo.

Lets not forget that O'brien secures at least 2 turnovers per game consistently, heaslip too and ferris even moreso.
Fair enough different players are given different roles to fulfill on matchday but nothing tells me that any of those three players are particularly weak in any area.

anonymous_joe

To an extent, the new laws have killed the 7 as a concept.

This is the era of the all-round back-row forward - Defensive strength, powerful carries and strong at the breakdown.

Definitely the way of the future.

almighty1

joseywhales wrote: »

Lets not forget that O'brien secures at least 2 turnovers per game consistently, heaslip too and ferris even moreso.

I agree. O'Brien is excellent on the deck and that seems to be ignored because of his immense ball carries. It is possible for a player to be brilliant on more than 1 aspect of a rugby game.

Therefore I would think that he could play in any position in the back row.

smurphy29

I think Ferris-SOB-Heaslip will be a great backrow for years to come. I don't think Deccie diffrentiates too much between his 6 and 7, Wallace is sort of a 6.5, not clssically built in the 7 mode. As many posters have said, all three of Ferris, Jamie and SOB seem to be adept in the various arts of back-row play, whether that's tackling, rucking or carrying. Ferris is a wrecking-ball 6, very much a classical 6, while Heaslip is the epitome of the modern day 8, very athletic and dynamic with a centre's skills. O'Brien is similar to Wallace in that he is capable of making yards when he has no right to. With Wallace at his best it was all about his leg drive in contact, but with SOB he seems to be able to shake himself out of so many tackles. I think there's a good balance to that back-row and enough finesse to play the off-loading game we need to.

Incidentally, the reason we've been able to get away without an out-and-out 7 for so long is because BOD is so incredible at the breakdown. He makes an extra half a flanker!

I would be astonished if he doesn't start a few 6N games, he's putting together an unarguable case to start. Wallace's powers are finally starting to wane, although I would still see him offering a lung-busting 20 minutes off the bench for us (although Kidney doesn't really do impact subs), so I would see him at 7 in the Spring. Of course, it could be at 6, Ferris is bound to get injured at some point...

irishbucsfan

CouchSmart wrote: »

It's hard to say really. He had a poor enough season last year but the 3 month suspension didn't help. I would probably describe him as more refined now than he was 3 or 4 years ago.

His play in the first half of this season was anything but refined. He has been very poor by his own standards. Too many ineffective penalties and too many mistakes that weren't in his game before. He's capable of far better.

I say that as a back row forward who would list Jennings as my favourite Leinster player. He's just not as good as he can be. But I think last weekend shows he's more than capable of recovering his 09 form.

irishbucsfan

The question is what happens when KMcL comes back? He was fantastic as a 6 before he was injured.

SOB has shown he's too good to be dropped. Jennings has shown that he's one of the best 7s in the country and brings something to the team that noone else does. Heaslip is Heaslip. But Kevin McLaughlin is the only trully suited 6 amongst them, and is probably the best bet as a 6 for Leinster.

I think we'll see a backrow of KMcL and Heaslip with SOB and Jennings alternating at 7 depending on the opposition.

CouchSmart

irishbucsfan wrote: »

His play in the first half of this season was anything but refined. He has been very poor by his own standards. Too many ineffective penalties and too many mistakes that weren't in his game before. He's capable of far better.

I say that as a back row forward who would list Jennings as my favourite Leinster player. He's just not as good as he can be. But I think last weekend shows he's more than capable of recovering his 09 form.

Bar one or two poor games at the start of the season, I think he's been good. I reckon the stuttering start was down to the captaincy. I don't think he's any use as captain.

Not to be over dramatic but the results of the past two weekends would be very different if he wasn't in the team.

CouchSmart

irishbucsfan wrote: »

The question is what happens when KMcL comes back? He was fantastic as a 6 before he was injured.

SOB has shown he's too good to be dropped. Jennings has shown that he's one of the best 7s in the country and brings something to the team that noone else does. Heaslip is Heaslip. But Kevin McLaughlin is the only trully suited 6 amongst them, and is probably the best bet as a 6 for Leinster.

I think we'll see a backrow of KMcL and Heaslip with SOB and Jennings alternating at 7 depending on the opposition.

I have been wondering about this myself. I think first and fore most it means the end of Keoghs days at Leinster. With SOB able to play brilliant stuff at 8, himself and Heaslip will be rotated there for Magners games, with Kev, Jenno, Ryan and Ruddock sharing the Flanker positions.

All this being said I doubt we'll see much of Kev for a while yet but when he does get back to full fitness, the first choice back row is anyone's guess. I'd probably stick with what's working now but with Schmidt he'll probably throw a curve ball in there.

marius

anonymous_joe wrote: »

To an extent, the new laws have killed the 7 as a concept.

This is the era of the all-round back-row forward - Defensive strength, powerful carries and strong at the breakdown.

Definitely the way of the future.

+1

The new 'interpretation' of the laws have negated the requirement for a ground hog type 7 - not that Ireland ever played with one anyway. This suits O'Brien perfectly, turnovers now come from hard rucking/counterrucking rather than penalties for holding on etc. This suits an Irish Backrow of Heaslip/Ferris/O'Brien - we also have savage back up in Wallace and more so Leamy - who is beginning to play exceptionally well also...

JustinDee

anonymous_joe wrote: »

To an extent, the new laws have killed the 7 as a concept.

This is the era of the all-round back-row forward - Defensive strength, powerful carries and strong at the breakdown.

Definitely the way of the future.

Hasn't changed the skillset of the breakaway that much. Just the role at each ruck depending on who the first tackler is. Their primary role in defence is to be the first off the scrum in the early receivers' face.
What it has changed is that the skills of 'fetching' be a requirement in the pack of more than one or two backrowers.

stephen_n

Tim Robbins wrote: »

7 usually isn't a ball carrier though - is it?

McCaw and Poppim are link men and ground hogs. Different skills? What you think?

He carries a lot which is a roll that Wallace does for Ireland but that isn't the only thing he does. O'Brien is also very effective for Leinster at turning over ball on the deck like a more traditional 7, he is a more intelligent as a player than most 6's (not saying 6's are thick ) but he reads a game very well and can make a nuisance of himself in defense and also can run lines that are far more effective than just hitting it up like Ferris or most 6's do!

PhatPiggins

I think a question that needs to be addressed is how long is he going to be at Leinster. He's already attracting attention from England and France and come the end of the season his reputation is going to be further enhanced.

What kind of contract is he on?

RuggieBear

PhatPiggins wrote: »

I think a question that needs to be addressed is how long is he going to be at Leinster. He's already attracting attention from England and France and come the end of the season his reputation is going to be further enhanced.

What kind of contract is he on?

i believe his contract is a pretty basic provincial one. undoubtedly his next one will have to be much higher to hold onto him

Morf

I think he needed 3 international caps to get an improved contract.

Hence why his injury last year was such a blow.

Tim Robbins

irishbucsfan wrote: »

The question is what happens when KMcL comes back? He was fantastic as a 6 before he was injured.

Super point. Forgot all about him.

SOB has shown he's too good to be dropped. Jennings has shown that he's one of the best 7s in the country and brings something to the team that noone else does. Heaslip is Heaslip. But Kevin McLaughlin is the only trully suited 6 amongst them, and is probably the best bet as a 6 for Leinster.

I think we'll see a backrow of KMcL and Heaslip with SOB and Jennings alternating at 7 depending on the opposition.

Inter
Interesting. It's what you call squad building. I'd just hate to see O'Brien shafted.

profitius

PhatPiggins wrote: »

I think a question that needs to be addressed is how long is he going to be at Leinster. He's already attracting attention from England and France and come the end of the season his reputation is going to be further enhanced.

What kind of contract is he on?

I don't think theres any fear of him going to England. The wealthy French on the other hand could come calling.

I'd say SOB will want to remain in Ireland for another few years at least. He's young and his career is on an upward curve so no point taking risks going abroad.

anonymous_joe

marius wrote: »

+1

The new 'interpretation' of the laws have negated the requirement for a ground hog type 7 - not that Ireland ever played with one anyway. This suits O'Brien perfectly, turnovers now come from hard rucking/counterrucking rather than penalties for holding on etc. This suits an Irish Backrow of Heaslip/Ferris/O'Brien - we also have savage back up in Wallace and more so Leamy - who is beginning to play exceptionally well also...

Add a little more mobility to Leamy and you'd have a selection of perfect modern backrowers, all ready to take on anybody, and the equal of all, bar possibly Pocock, McCaw and well, that's about it.

JustinDee wrote: »

Hasn't changed the skillset of the breakaway that much. Just the role at each ruck depending on who the first tackler is. Their primary role in defence is to be the first off the scrum in the early receivers' face.
What it has changed is that the skills of 'fetching' be a requirement in the pack of more than one or two backrowers.

I'd personally disagree.

The original concept of the pure 7 was considered a fundamental element of all backrows. Look at Smith for Australia, or McCaw for New Zealand.

However, as you can't really operate in the same way, especially given the need to release the tackler, and greater (though insufficient) scrutiny of where exactly you flop about around a ruck, your pure 7 is a liability. Instead, it's all about being mobile, interchangeable and possessed of a specific and universal skillset.

thomond2006

RuggieBear wrote: »

i believe his contract is a pretty basic provincial one. undoubtedly his next one will have to be much higher to hold onto him

+1 should happen. If Wallace surely retires from Ireland after RWC, O'Brien should get his international contracted place.

Leamy is on an international contract (I think) hence he is being selected ahead of O'Brien for Ireland atm.

PhatPiggins

thomond2006 wrote: »

+1 should happen. If Wallace surely retires from Ireland after RWC, O'Brien should get his international contracted place.

Leamy is on an international contract (I think) hence he is being selected ahead of O'Brien for Ireland atm.

Do you think the fact that a guy is on an international contract is reason for him to be selected ahead of a guy on a provincial one

CIARAN_BOYLE

PhatPiggins wrote: »

Do you think the fact that a guy is on an international contract is reason for him to be selected ahead of a guy on a provincial one

A lot of people have that impression for some reason, I'm certain that its nonsense

danthefan

Nah, he's not getting picked purely because Ireland have a rubbish head coach.

Tim Robbins

thomond2006 wrote: »

+1 should happen. If Wallace surely retires from Ireland after RWC, O'Brien should get his international contracted place.

Leamy is on an international contract (I think) hence he is being selected ahead of O'Brien for Ireland atm.

I wonder could the same argument be used for Ross?

I'd say there's some politics that goes on we just don't know about.

Badgermonkey

SOB should see plenty of gametime during the 6N, be that off the bench or starting one or two.

If his form holds, failure to give him his run would be O'Sullivanism of the worst kind.

twinytwo

Gijoe wrote: »

+1

hard to know what position is his best. He's not a typical 7 like Brussow or Pocock but he's great running the ball. I'd say he's more 6/8.

but whats the point in playing 6/8 he will never get in ahead of either heaslip or ferris... its like munster insisting that earls plays 13 for ireland// he will never play more than a few mins a game unless drico gets injured so he just sits on the bench.

If he plays for irleand like he ahs done for leinster... Ferris/O Brien/ Heaslip could be very tough to beat.

twinytwo

CIARAN_BOYLE wrote: »

A lot of people have that impression for some reason, I'm certain that its nonsense

So you think that they will pay a guy for and international contract and not get their money worth?

irishbucsfan

PhatPiggins wrote: »

Do you think the fact that a guy is on an international contract is reason for him to be selected ahead of a guy on a provincial one

John Hayes (international contract) selected ahead of Mike Ross (provincial contract)
Eoin Reddan (international contract) selected ahead of Peter Stringer (provincial contract)
Denis Leamy/David Wallace (international contracts) selected ahead of Sean O'Brien (provincial contract)

thomond2006

twinytwo wrote: »

So you think that they will pay a guy for and international contract and not get their money worth?

That's the problem in a nutshell.

JustinDee

anonymous_joe wrote: »

I'd personally disagree.

The original concept of the pure 7 was considered a fundamental element of all backrows. Look at Smith for Australia, or McCaw for New Zealand

What about them? If they're first in, they're not fetching (legally). If they're not, they breaching to achieve the turnover.
The original "concept" as you call it was that the openside flanker had free-reign following the break of the scrum. As support in attack or as a hassling tackler in defence.
The required skillset I referred to as that of a breakaway is now a requirement of more than just a couple of pack members.
The openside is not a liability as you call it. A successful modern professional pack has numerous players with the relevant skillset for reasons I've mentioned.

Tim Robbins

JustinDee wrote: »

What about them? If they're first in, they're not fetching (legally). If they're not, they breaching to achieve the turnover.
The original "concept" as you call it was that the openside flanker had free-reign following the break of the scrum. As support in attack or as a hassling tackler in defence.
The required skillset I referred to as that of a breakaway is now a requirement of more than just a couple of pack members.
The openside is not a liability as you call it. A successful modern professional pack has numerous players with the relevant skillset for reasons I've mentioned.

There's different ways of playing the game. It's like in Soccer you can use 3 centre halfs and wing backs instead of a flat back four.

Kidney and Munster play a game without a traditional 7 and effectively 2 number 8's.

It all gets way more tactical in Rugby when you consider that players deliberately train and get their body weight a certain way for a specific position.

For examples, props try to gain weight and in recent times Drico lost weight to get more speed. I'd imagine at the highest level this matters greatly if you are a 6 or 7. You're going to get slightly different programs.

Jemo

I agree, the traditional seven is not necessary under the current rules, grappling for the ball has become a liability in many matches. Turnovers are now about a strong rucking force or else keeping the player on his feet to rob the ball legally. Heaslip is probably the closest player Ireland have to a traditional seven, look at his link play, rucking and tackling, he does it all except he is an exceptional carrier too. Any of Ferris, SOB, Heaslip regularly can ruck through and win turnovers, this is something which Wallace rarely does (Leamy on the other hand also fits the bill). The leg drive is not as effective now as teams tend to wrap the man and it inevitably leads to slow but technically legal killing of the ball. O'Brien breaks tackles because he hits with his shoulder from a lower height than the tackler, this is an excellent talent if we can get the lads running lines off him as he goes into contact. Rugby is changing and explosive power and handling is the way forward. And for those who say SOB will never oust Ferris, I wouldn't be so sure, for one Ferris is extremely injury-prone and two SOB has the potential to match him in my opinion. I would rather SOB at Leinster than Fez. Jennings is the best defensive tackler Ireland has but with the current tactics to convert into a offensive team, his style doesn't suit. The defensive strategy based around Kurt McQ was his perfect role I believe.

padser

twinytwo wrote: »

but whats the point in playing 6/8 he will never get in ahead of either heaslip or ferris... its like munster insisting that earls plays 13 for ireland// he will never play more than a few mins a game unless drico gets injured so he just sits on the bench.

If he plays for irleand like he ahs done for leinster... Ferris/O Brien/ Heaslip could be very tough to beat.

I think I remember an article a while ago stating that your average professional rugby player spends 21 days out of 100 injured (so for any given match, an average of three players from your "first choice" XV are injured). This seems about right to me.

To say O'Brien shouldn't play 6 or 8 because he wouldn't get game time there is madness -

a) if he could cover both of those positions as first choice back up he would be playing almost half the games (in fairness possibly more as Ferris is definitely more injury prone than your 'average' professional)

b) SOB (at 23 years of age) is better than Heaslip (27) was four years ago and considerably better than Ferris was at 23. He could (not saying he will) displace one or other of them in the next 2 years.

Tim Robbins

I remember a few years back at a refs meeting Alan Gaffney was guest speaker and he was asked about up and coming Leinster talent. He was very high in praise of O'Brien. No-one knew who he really was and that Gaffney was actually saying he was going to push Jennings. Because Jennings had been on fire the last few seasons.

Because O'Brien didn't come thru the schools he didn't have the same big rep, Fitgerald, Kearney and the like have. People already knew who these people were.