My Employer wants a copy of my passport...

giftgrub

I work for the irish division of a UK plc...recently we were told by HR that they wanted a copy of our passport to make sure we're elegible to work here.

Now i rang the data protection commisioner and was told thats a big no no.

Anyway another email comes down saying they dont want a copy of the actual passport...just the number.

Another call to Data Protection but the guy seemed a little unsure...while he's checking it out i thought i'd throw it here.

My understanding would be that the passport is my private personal data and they shouldn't be allowed to have it.

mickoneill30

giftgrub wrote: »

My understanding would be that the passport is my private personal data and they shouldn't be allowed to have it.

That sounds right to me but looking at it from the employers point of view how else can they tell if you're legal in Ireland.

My wife is Australian and got a stamp in her passport and a GNIB card. Without those she can't work in Ireland.
She has a letter with her PPS number on it but that doesn't have any photograph on it so I'm guessing that would be easy to pass on.

Even if you have a big Dub accent and red hair your employer probably has to ask everybody rather than just the guys who look "foreign". That'd probably be discrimination.

But I don't know either.

giftgrub

I should have said that they already have a copy of my driving licence for a company car. Which states my nationality as irish

munstergirl

Seems standard procedure now to see who can legally work in country.

Berty

My employers have always had copies of my passport when they required clarification I had one for Visa applications and travel requests. It made it easier for the travel person to confirm details without numerous phone calls about the exact spelling of your name, passport number blah blah blah.

That may not be your case but as long as your employer doesn't need to hold onto your passport like some sort of ransom then I wouldn't be too worried.

Dymo

Have you actually got something to hide ?. Its no big deal to give them a copy of your passport. Your driving licence doesn't day anything about your nationality it just says is an Irish Driving licence any nationality could have one. If I was your employer I'd even be more suspicious.

giftgrub

Dymo wrote: »

Have you actually got something to hide ?. Its no big deal to give them a copy of your passport. Your driving licence doesn't day anything about your nationality it just says is an Irish Driving licence any nationality could have one. If I was your employer I'd even be more suspicious.

Its a big deal to me, and others in here. Its my private information. I've been working there for years. And my licence has my place of birth as "Ireland".

apoeiguq3094y

giftgrub wrote: »

Its a big deal to me, and others in here. Its my private information. I've been working there for years. And my licence has my place of birth as "Ireland".

It is a big deal, because you don't know how secure the employer would keep this information. Identity theft is a big problem, and your passport is one of the most important identity documents you have. You want to be 100% that the information won't fall into the wrong hands.

Just look at the amount of fake irish passport sin high profile news cases recently

ted1

i honestly don't refuge problem to be honest i wouldn't like co employee like you. Your making a mountain out of a mole hill

ted1

i honestly don't see the problem to be honest i wouldn't like an employee like you. Your making a mountain out of a mole hill

mickoneill30

giftgrub wrote: »

Anyway another email comes down saying they dont want a copy of the actual passport...just the number.

apoeiguq3094y wrote: »

It is a big deal, because you don't know how secure the employer would keep this information. Identity theft is a big problem, and your passport is one of the most important identity documents you have.

They asked for Passport number. How useful is that information without all of the other details? That's a serious question. I've no idea.

As for the driving license. If it's an employer that has offices in several countries the only common system would be passport number. If you've got several employees in several countries what would be a better system. Although they're shagged if the employee doesn't have a passport.

mickoneill30

Actually to answer the OPs question.

http://www.dataprotection.ie/docs/FAQ_-_passport/919.htm

It says at recruitment stage, so you could probably argue that point and you'd probably win but that's up to you, depends how much you trust your HR dept and how happy you'd like to keep them.

TheScriptFan

We will not employ anyone unless they can produce their passport, if they are confirmed European, that's fine. We note the details etc. If they are not European we take a copy of their work permit. I think this is standard practice. I do not think any company that is up on their employment law would retain a copy of your passport. It is likely that they are not aware they are not supposed to be doing that.

apoeiguq3094y

mickoneill30 wrote: »

They asked for Passport number. How useful is that information without all of the other details? That's a serious question. I've no idea.

As for the driving license. If it's an employer that has offices in several countries the only common system would be passport number. If you've got several employees in several countries what would be a better system. Although they're shagged if the employee doesn't have a passport.

Well i'm presuming they already know pps number ( as op works there), date of birth, full name. thats about it on your passport. If someone then made a fake passport, they could then use that to get everything else - birth cert, then driving license, then they walk into the bank with the acc number ( from the electronic payroll) and they are now officially you.

I'm not saying you should definitely not give it to them, I'd just want ot be sure that they have proper data security.

cailinoBAC

Isn’t this standard practice? Everywhere I’ve worked I’ve had to give my passport.

Mrs OBumble

OP, the Irish driving licence is the most pathetically fakeable document in the world. I wouldn't expect any employer to accept it as ID (it's certainly not accepted in pubs overseas). Also, I'm not sure the fact you were born in Ireland means you still have Irish citizenship (eg if you'd got American citizenship at some times in the past, you had to give up other citizenship).

Your employer is required to make sure that you are entitled to work in this country. The passport is pretty much the only way to do it, and I'd expect to show it for each and every single job I ever have in this country (I'm an Irish national, but have the wrong accent).

And if you don't let them see it, it makes it look like you have something to hide.

tenchi-fan

giftgrub wrote: »

I work for the irish division of a UK plc...recently we were told by HR that they wanted a copy of our passport to make sure we're elegible to work here.

Now i rang the data protection commisioner and was told thats a big no no.

The data protection commissioner is talking out of their arse. I don't know what problem you have providing the copy, however a lot of people who would refuse possibly have something to hide (e.g. driving licence is in a different name to the passport or contains the wrong nationality in error).

The UK PLC wants to give you a job without getting in trouble by accidentally employing someone who is not authorised to work in the UK. I had to provide a copy of my passport to an Irish plc. Show them your passport or find some other means of proving you are legal to work in the UK that is acceptable to the company. Otherwise, it's back to the job hunt for you.

fenris

Standard practice in most organisation especially if you may be needed to travel as part of your role. New hires have to produce passport and driving license on their first day in my place.

InReality

Perhaps if you show your passport at work , that will be enough and they won't need to copy any data from it.
but your DL or birth cert should do the job as well.

penexpers

giftgrub wrote: »

My understanding would be that the passport is my private personal data and they shouldn't be allowed to have it.

Yes don't give them your passport number. And while you're at it, better keep all other private personal data secret. Best not give them your PPS number or your bank details.

It's just a way of verifying that you are eligible to work in Ireland/EU. There is no other way.

If you don't trust your employer to handle the data securely, then maybe you should consider if you are comfortable working for them, because they probably already have a lot of data relating to you.

donkey balls

I have to say I have never heard of an employer looking for an employees passport not unless they are a foreign national working in another country,Which happened to me while living in OZ saying that at one stage I did have to show my passport to an employer in order for them to do the ten year back ground check.(passport had visa and other stamps on it)other than that I did'nt have to show them it.
It also depends on what industry you work in my one is/can be very sensitive due to the nature of the business and when flying on company aircraft the ops dept would photo copy my passport.

Jim2007

giftgrub wrote: »

I work for the irish division of a UK plc...recently we were told by HR that they wanted a copy of our passport to make sure we're elegible to work here.

Now i rang the data protection commisioner and was told thats a big no no.

Anyway another email comes down saying they dont want a copy of the actual passport...just the number.

Another call to Data Protection but the guy seemed a little unsure...while he's checking it out i thought i'd throw it here.

My understanding would be that the passport is my private personal data and they shouldn't be allowed to have it.

First of all I'd have my doubts about the information you have been given by the office of the DPC. The general rule is that a business may collect and process data that is necessary for the functioning of their business and of course subject to the requirement that they treat the data in the proper manner etc. I've never see anything in the Act list any data item as in or out. Checking your passport to ensure that you are entitled to work for them would appear to be a basic requirement, so I consider this request to be a reasonable one.

And in any case I really don't see what the big deal is - if you travel, your passport will be inspected, copied, scanned, and retained by many organisations, so it is not as if it is a big secret now is it? And faking a passport does not seem to be a tall order either for that matter.

Jim (Switzerland)

testicle

giftgrub wrote: »

Its a big deal to me, and others in here. Its my private information. I've been working there for years. And my licence has my place of birth as "Ireland".

What information exactly is in your passport that they don't already know?

giftgrub

Its the principle of it.

towger

Just a point of information .... it is not your passport ..... it is the property of the Minister of Foreign Affairs. See note #1 on the inside back cover.

Jim2007

giftgrub wrote: »

Its the principle of it.

Seriously! All you will be doing is making a nuisance of yourself for your team lead, HR and everyone else involved, for what is really a very petty issue in most peoples eyes. In the end you will come a way with a negative image which will not help you when it comes to things like pay increases, promotion, time off and what not.

Good luck with that,

Jim

giftgrub

There i was thinking some things are still private...

Anyway

4.8 Can my employer ask me to bring in my passport (to take a copy for HR records)?

An employer may ask to see your passport at recruitment stage if this is necessary to show that you are entitled to work in Ireland. An employer may note such passport details on your personnel file. It should not be necessary for an employer to retain a copy of your passport and such action could be a breach of the Data Protection Acts. .

Link here

I'll leave it at that.

the_syco

giftgrub wrote: »

Its a big deal to me, and others in here. Its my private information. I've been working there for years. And my licence has my place of birth as "Ireland".

Asking for your passport is just a formality. They ask everyone for it. Put it this way: what would happen if they only asked black people for their passport? The company would get sued for being racist. So the company asks everyone for their passport.

As for your link, it says that they can see your passport. Some migrant works would not like having the actual passport sent via post, as if it were to get lost, they may fear that they'd get thrown out of Ireland. Thus, the main office (most likely based in the UK) doesn't demand the actual passport, but a copy of it, just to check if all is legit.

Now, if you brought in your passport, and they took down the number, I'd say that would be legal. If you refuse to give the number to them, you may force them to let you go, as otherwise it may be seen as racist if they to let go a black person if his details didn't allow him to work there.

wildefalcon

What if you didn't have a passport? It isn't a requirement to have one. You don't need one to travel to the UK.

If you already work there, and have done so for years, I'd be tempted to tell them where to go.

Fair enough, when taking someone new on, but for existing employees?

Pah. What next? DNA testing?

dellas1979

giftgrub wrote: »

There i was thinking some things are still private...

Anyway



Link here

I'll leave it at that.

Well then, from what you posted there, they are entitled to take information from your passport i.e. passport number.

czar1

I've had to provide my passport and visa details for jobs in the UK and Ireland as I'm from Oz. I was uncomfortable doing it at first (especially when you hear about people misplacing candidate information!), but it's either show your ID or you won't get the job ...

Irish_Elect_Eng

This would be standard practice in a lot of companies for different reasons some of which have been mentioned above. One simple reason that I have come across is that HR often book company travel and for many countries,a passport number is one piece of data that is required to make travel bookings and hotel reservations. Similarly, our drivers licences were required to make car rental bookings.

crossmolinalad

Nobody gets a copy of my passport
It is the system in Holland every employee has to give a copy but they will stop it now because it give a lot of id fraud problems
It was possible to get loans or order goods online false motor registrations illegal foreign workers (using ur pps no) with a copy of a passport on your name
If u know how it works its all possible with just a copy of your passport

robinph

Never had to show my passport in order to get a job or for work to arrange travel for me either. Admittedly didn't have work sending me to the US recently or anywhere as restrictive as that.

giftgrub

Just an update to this...

We took a complaint to Data Protection who raised the issue with the company.

The passport requirement has been dropped.

tenchi-fan

giftgrub wrote: »

Just an update to this...

We took a complaint to Data Protection who raised the issue with the company.

The passport requirement has been dropped.

What a victory.

Means nothing though. You just got a government agency to bully the employer who was just trying to make sure applicants had a legal right to work in Ireland.

robinph

tenchi-fan wrote: »

What a victory.

Means nothing though. You just got a government agency to bully the employer who was just trying to make sure applicants had a legal right to work in Ireland.

Well they can do that by asking to see the passport if they are really dubious about you. They have no need to take a copy of it or any of the details on it.

Wisco

Dymo wrote: »

Have you actually got something to hide ?. Its no big deal to give them a copy of your passport. Your driving licence doesn't day anything about your nationality it just says is an Irish Driving licence any nationality could have one. If I was your employer I'd even be more suspicious.

I can't remember exactly whether it says nationality or place of birth, but there's definitely a spot on there that shows whether you were born in Ireland or not.

I also would have no problem showing a passport and/or any work permits, but keeping a copy is another matter altogether.

Jarren

In every single work agency I registered they took a copy of my passport(from whatever reason i'ts obligatory for them otherwise no passport/no registration/ no chance of getting any work

tenchi-fan

jarecki1976 wrote: »

In every single work agency I registered they took a copy of my passport(from whatever reason i'ts obligatory for them otherwise no passport/no registration/ no chance of getting any work

My agency took a copy of my passport and work permit BEFORE they would even let me register (in canada).

Although the second agency don't want a copy of the passport until they actually find me work.

giftgrub

tenchi-fan wrote: »

What a victory.

Means nothing though. You just got a government agency to bully the employer who was just trying to make sure applicants had a legal right to work in Ireland.

What about my privacy rights?

This ball was tossed around on this before, this thread should now be closed.

InReality

@giftgrub

Fair play for standing up for yourself , esp these days when most people are too scared to do so for fear of losing or not getting a job.
Far too much deference to "the job" in this country

Mrs OBumble

giftgrub wrote: »

What about my privacy rights?

This ball was tossed around on this before, this thread should now be closed.

This thread isn't actually that old, so I'm not inclined to close it yet.

In particular, I'll be keen to know if Garda Immigration take a particular interest in the hiring decisions that the company makes in the next while. (Because I'm sure that they will be keeping tabs on companies that the Data Commissioner is saying things like that to.)

If I was the HR manager, I'd be feeling very vulnerable about not being able to keep documentary evidence that right-to-work-in-Ireland checks were made.

Greenmachine

Quoted legislation suggested that employer is not allowed to keep a copy of your passport. Didn't mention anything about making it in the first place. I am sure employers aren't taking them for the fun of them and are simply going through a due process. Prolly destroyed once everything has been verified.

Not sure what all this personal info that could be gleaned from your passport is. Surely your employer knows your name address and D.O.B already.

Cat Melodeon

Greenmachine wrote: »

Quoted legislation suggested that employer is not allowed to keep a copy of your passport. Didn't mention anything about making it in the first place. I am sure employers aren't taking them for the fun of them and are simply going through a due process. Prolly destroyed once everything has been verified.

Not sure what all this personal info that could be gleaned from your passport is. Surely your employer knows your name address and D.O.B already.

Your address doesn't appear on your passport. It is the only document that proves your nationality though, and with that whether or not you have the right to work without a permit.

Surely all that has to be done is that you produce your passport to the HR dept and you both sign a statement saying that you have produced it and that your nationality has been demonstrated. If a work permit is necessary, HR should record details of that, but there should be no need to record or copy the passport details of anyone.

Anyone who can't see the dangers of allowing unsecured storage of official ID should cast their mind back to the story of the Russian spies and the Irish passports. All that was needed for the forging of those was the information contained within them, not the passports themselves.

Mrs OBumble

Cat Melodeon wrote: »

Anyone who can't see the dangers of allowing unsecured storage of official ID

I've yet to meet the HR department that isn't paranoid about making sure that files are secured.

Greenmachine

My first Passport had my address on it. Am looking at it right now. Have travelled all over europe and my passport has rarely been scanned never mind even looked at. Passed through Spanish customs countless time where I have handed over my passport only to have it passed back without them looking at it. Only time my passport had a proper looking over was when I went to Canada. Forget to do the pre screening once for Spain and was still able to travel without a problem. Any name, Any face on an Irish passport and for the most part there isn't any questions. You would even need to glean someones number. So much for security.

Cat Melodeon wrote: »

Your address doesn't appear on your passport. It is the only document that proves your nationality though, and with that whether or not you have the right to work without a permit.

Surely all that has to be done is that you produce your passport to the HR dept and you both sign a statement saying that you have produced it and that your nationality has been demonstrated. If a work permit is necessary, HR should record details of that, but there should be no need to record or copy the passport details of anyone.

Anyone who can't see the dangers of allowing unsecured storage of official ID should cast their mind back to the story of the Russian spies and the Irish passports. All that was needed for the forging of those was the information contained within them, not the passports themselves.

Cat Melodeon

Greenmachine wrote: »

My first Passport had my address on it.

When is that from? I'm pretty sure they don't have an address printed on them anymore - there's a page where you can write it in yourself. At least, I've never had my address printed on mine, think I got my first adult one in 1995. Open to correction though.