Social Classes In Ireland...

Zascar

Is there any actual classification of the social classes in Ireland? I know it's quite different here to other countries, but in talking others, some people think that everyone in Ireland is working class apart from a small few, whereas others think that since the Celtic Tiger, almost everyone is middle class. I have no idea how I'd classify it myself, but I certainly don't think its a large majority in either group.

I'm not expecting there to be any real definitive answer here, but how would you make the separation in your own head?

later12

Based purely on my own personal experiences

3.b. Travellers - Homeless
3.a. Long term unemployed
2.c Recession Unemployed - Students - Retail and Unskilled staff - Some farmers
2.b. Porfessional Classes Junior - Lower Management - Old Money gone broke - Most farmers
2.a. Professional Classes Senior - Media - Sports Personalities - Junior Politics - Higher Management
1.b; 1.a. Senior Political Classes - Company Directors - Bono - Other Wealth

irishh_bob

later10 wrote: »

Based purely on my own personal experiences

3.b. Travellers - Homeless
3.a. Long term unemployed
2.c Recession Unemployed - Students - Retail and Unskilled staff - Some farmers
2.b. Porfessional Classes Junior - Lower Management - Old Money gone broke - Most farmers
2.a. Professional Classes Senior - Media - Sports Personalities - Junior Politics - Higher Management
1.b; 1.a. Senior Political Classes - Company Directors - Bono - Other Wealth

most tinkers are better off than 3A let alone the homeless , unlike tinkers , the long term unemployed tend not to paint buildings ( with diesel ) on the side or flog stolen power tools

pickarooney

I was wondering about this the other day and I don't think there is really a definable class structure in Ireland. The absence of an aristocracy and the comparable salaries of white and blue collar workers make the notion of upper, middle and working class moot. you could argue a case for three classes based on the megarich, the unemployable and everyone in between, I suppose.

Jo King

I read an article in a newspaper years ago which claimed that there were 6 distinct socio-economic classes in Ireland. Note the phrase socio-economic. It is not all about money. Attitudes and behaviour are also significant.

Rubik.

Market reseachers use a classification based on the occupation of the head of household, ABC1's...etc. There is a table here with the class definitions and the percentage of the Irish population that make up the different classes....

http://www.pfizer.ie/in_the_news.cfm?action=showArticle&articleID=75

later12

irishh_bob wrote: »

most tinkers are better off than 3A let alone the homeless

Class, as another poster has mentioned, is not simply to do with money. It also has to do with social networks, likely educational attainment and simple things like residential address, leisure activities and spending habits.

Holybejaysus

later10 wrote: »

Based purely on my own personal experiences

3.b. Travellers - Homeless
3.a. Long term unemployed
2.c Recession Unemployed - Students - Retail and Unskilled staff - Some farmers
2.b. Porfessional Classes Junior - Lower Management - Old Money gone broke - Most farmers
2.a. Professional Classes Senior - Media - Sports Personalities - Junior Politics - Higher Management
1.b; 1.a. Senior Political Classes - Company Directors - Bono - Other Wealth

Actually a pretty good description, although I would argue there is one more group-:
0.a. The super elite- The Anglo golden circle-Captains of Industry-Religious Leaders-Media Moguls-Club Annabel elites. Those beyond the law. The very top of the pyramid of power.

To put it in some sort of perspective, Bono would be small fry compared to these guys.

kaiser sauze

Has anyone ever had to deal with a 'friend' who frowns on you for 'dealing with' people of 'lower types'?

[Lots of generalisations in there, but I'm sure it will make sense for someone!]

Due to the nature of the community work I am heavily involved with I am on first name terms with many people who would be considered among the 'lower classes'. All this is done while being a successful professional person to pay the bills. I have, in the past few years, begun to note the disbelief and surprise on certain acquaintances faces when we might meet someone who they would look down on while I am sharing a joke with them and chatting to them without any other thought than genuinely being interested in how they are doing.

This became rampant during the tiger years, but is persisting.

Mike 1972

Zascar wrote: »

some people think that everyone in Ireland is working class apart from a small few, whereas others think that since the Celtic Tiger, almost everyone is middle class.

Ive always said that if you can show me two people who can agree on a definition what the terms "middle class" and "working class" actually mean in this day and age I will tell you which I am.

Piste

Rubik. wrote: »

Market reseachers use a classification based on the occupation of the head of household, ABC1's...etc. There is a table here with the class definitions and the percentage of the Irish population that make up the different classes....

http://www.pfizer.ie/in_the_news.cfm?action=showArticle&articleID=75

That's a good table. It's a pity Pfizer had to include people reliant on state benefits as "working class" as it skews the figures somewhat.

Emme

Zascar wrote: »

...some people think that everyone in Ireland is working class apart from a small few...

I would consider anybody who works for a living to be working class, no matter what they earn.

The long-term unemployed and those who live on benefits are underclass.

Those who earn the majority of their income from crime despite being on benefits are criminal class.

The mega-wealthy who live off their investments and get out of paying tax are today's upper class or wealthy elite class

My classification has little to do with actual income. In Ireland today somebody living on benefits might have more income than somebody who works for a living, and those who make money from crime could be on a par with the mega-wealthy.

wonderfulname

Personally I think there's;
homeless and some unemployed,
Then a "working class", incorporating much of the unemployed as well as those in low level employment and travellers.
Then two tiers of middle class, roughly those who profited from the boom but not education, and those who would have been middle class anyway.
An upper class made up of people with high education, position, and a decent amount of disposable income.
Then another upper class incorporating some of our bigger entrepreneurs and those high in the food chain of multinationals.
Then the mega wealthy.

However I don't see these classifications as mutually exclusive, if you could graph it it would be some sort of confused venn diagram. The working class merges into the lower middle, which runs almost in parallel with the other middle class, who have much in common with the lower end of high society and so on so forth.

Career criminals in Ireland usually come from working class backgrounds, they don't avail of education and don't have the mannerisms of the other groupings, therefore they are still working class.

Working class doesn't just mean people that work. Generally it means people who physically labour, rather than at a desk, and in our society the working class does include the unemployed. For example, Dublin's north side would be viewed as a working class area but unemployment rates are above the national average.

Zascar

I don't think having a job makes much difference in whether someone is working class or not - whether they are on the Doll or have a crappy minimum wage unskilled job, makes little difference. However on the other side there are plenty of completely middle class people on the doll or just doing unskilled labour - however most other aspects of their life etc would point to being middle class.

A persons accent also as a lot to do with it. I find it funny how in certain other countries you cannot tell a personal class by their accent, only perhaps by where they are from, urban or rural etc. In Ireland it is far, far more evident.

wonderfulname

Zascar wrote: »

A persons accent also as a lot to do with it. I find it funny how in certain other countries you cannot tell a personal class by their accent, only perhaps by where they are from, urban or rural etc. In Ireland it is far, far more evident.

You just know the accents here. My Italian is appalling so the only accents I can hear are north and south, but my dad can tell you what area of what city they came from. Just like where we hear a tallaght accent someone with minimal knowledge of the country will hear a Dublin accent and someone with no knowledge whatsoever will hear an Irish accent. The Irish person then associates the tallaght accent with the working classes.
However I don't think you're talking about accent, I think your talking about how well spoken a person is. Most people don't realise I'm a midlander, they think I'm from South Dublin or Wicklow, they also assume a posh childhood. Its simply because I can pronounce "th" and have a decent vocabulary, that stems from being well read. The higher you climb up the social ladder, the more likely emphasis will be put on education, the better read people are, the better spoken they are. Its not an accent per se, more a manner of speech. And this is evident across the globe.

Zascar

Thanks, yes you are absolutely correct.

My parents both had very ordinary background but they always made sure I spoke properly growing up. I am truly amazed how much of the population have little concern for speaking properly.

caseyann

Tags all tags.
Class is just a manner of separation and degradation of others.
And to say anything other than that is so typically piggish and rude. Just because you have more money then the next person does not put you in a higher class than anyone else,or being long term unemployed does not make you lower class as someone else so snobbishly said.Be proud for that comment shows class.
Class is about personal character and you can have the richest person in world who is the nastiest person and the poorest person in the world who would do anything for anyone.
Class is a word to build barriers and pit people against eachother fighting amongst themselves as the so called rulers and elite have done for decades.
Class in a character of a person not a wallet or job or accent :rolleyes:

caseyann

Zascar wrote: »

I don't think having a job makes much difference in whether someone is working class or not - whether they are on the Doll or have a crappy minimum wage unskilled job, makes little difference. However on the other side there are plenty of completely middle class people on the doll or just doing unskilled labour - however most other aspects of their life etc would point to being middle class.

A persons accent also as a lot to do with it. I find it funny how in certain other countries you cannot tell a personal class by their accent, only perhaps by where they are from, urban or rural etc. In Ireland it is far, far more evident.

Incorrect,England,France,Spain Brazil etc... etc... would tell you different.

Zascar

I didn't mean all, I meant a very small few. Lithuania is one.

caseyann

Zascar wrote: »

I didn't mean all, I meant a very small few. Lithuania is one.

I am curious now to see,i have a friend from Lithuania, i will ask her tomorrow if she can notice accents and tell if they come from different richer or poorer parts of her city.

Master and commander

caseyann wrote: »

Tags all tags.
Class is just a manner of separation and degradation of others.
And to say anything other than that is so typically piggish and rude. Just because you have more money then the next person does not put you in a higher class than anyone else,or being long term unemployed does not make you lower class as someone else so snobbishly said.Be proud for that comment shows class.
Class is about personal character and you can have the richest person in world who is the nastiest person and the poorest person in the world who would do anything for anyone.
Class is a word to build barriers and pit people against eachother fighting amongst themselves as the so called rulers and elite have done for decades.
Class in a character of a person not a wallet or job or accent :rolleyes:

Watch out! The communists are coming!

Duffy the Vampire Slayer

wonderfulname wrote: »

You just know the accents here. My Italian is appalling so the only accents I can hear are north and south, but my dad can tell you what area of what city they came from. Just like where we hear a tallaght accent someone with minimal knowledge of the country will hear a Dublin accent and someone with no knowledge whatsoever will hear an Irish accent. The Irish person then associates the tallaght accent with the working classes.
However I don't think you're talking about accent, I think your talking about how well spoken a person is. Most people don't realise I'm a midlander, they think I'm from South Dublin or Wicklow, they also assume a posh childhood. Its simply because I can pronounce "th" and have a decent vocabulary, that stems from being well read. The higher you climb up the social ladder, the more likely emphasis will be put on education, the better read people are, the better spoken they are. Its not an accent per se, more a manner of speech. And this is evident across the globe.

Its possible to be well-spoken with a good vocabulary and still hang on to a regional accent.

wonderfulname

You do realise the thread is half a year old?

Duffy the Vampire Slayer

wonderfulname wrote: »

You do realise the thread is half a year old?

I didn't but the person who resurrected must have.

SurferDude41

No class in this country, only money..
Lots of millionaire plasterers and bricklayers who became property developers and drive new X5 BMW cars live in enormous houses,and most of them can barely read or write.

Just take one look at the political class in this country, it took them less that a hundred years to run our country into the ground, corruption, cronyism, and unbridled greed....(no class there either) gombeens the lot of them...

No class only money:(

Permabear

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