Membership fees

wonka

I'm a member in Kinsale Golf Club, Cork - and the cost of next years membership is €1200, which i think is quite excessive. 1k is the fee, plus 100 for the bar, another 100 as a 'levy'. Maybe FF are in charge!!!

I'd like to find our what others are paying, as i really am considering moving club to save money.

maybe a survey would be good!!!

Trampas

what was it this season?

ridonkulous

1k seems the standard. I don't what Kinsale GC is like so I don't know if 1k is good value for money but its seems to be along the lines of other golf clubs.

King MmC

2500 subs 19 gui and 100 for mens comps

wonka

This year it was 1100 - next year has this 100 'levy'. Once you add the cost of playing in competitions it adds up to a hefty sum - especially when i'm well off the prizes!!!

Trampas

was the levy explained at the agm?

I see clubs losing people as with the cuts in peoples cash golf membership of a 1k+ will be cut from peoples budgets

AldilaMan

Hollywood Lakes last year €1287 including €100 bar levy. This year €1337 with a reduced €50 bar levy so a net increase of €100. Any club increasing the sub is shooting themselves in the foot. Most clubs will lose alot of members next year anyway as a result of the last budget etc but increases to subs will result in greater membership losses.

strokes1

AldilaMan wrote: »

Hollywood Lakes last year €1287 including €100 bar levy. This year €1337 with a reduced €50 bar levy so a net increase of €100. Any club increasing the sub is shooting themselves in the foot. Most clubs will lose alot of members next year anyway as a result of the last budget etc but increases to subs will result in greater membership losses.

Dont get me started!!!

Uncle Mclovin

I'm a member at Ballybunion.

Membership invoice came a couple of days ago. €594 for the year. €150 of that was for the bar and pro shop.

I paid and entrance fee of €2,500 two years ago. There was an offer at the time for junior members to avail of half price entrance fee if they moved up to full senior member so I took it.


So I can't be complaining really. Pretty cheap looking at your above cost.

Aesop

Out of curiosity I used the GUI membership search database to get an idea of annual subs. Seeing as the OP is currently a member in Kinsale I narrowed the search to just Munster.

It found 46 clubs with an average sub of €658. It actually found 49 more but some has subs of €0???. I figure at a very rough estimate that there would be around 80 clubs in Munster.

Two caveats. First this is only valid for clubs that are currently open for membership so will exclude some of the bigger clubs who in general have larger subs which might skew the average sub downwards. Second I don't know how up to date the GUI database is. I would imagine most figures are for 2010 not 2011. On the other side of that coin I can't imagine many clubs are going to increase subs or if they do they will be balanced by other clubs lowering theirs.

ccmp

Its important to voice opinions at AGM's, which is where these decisions are made. It's no good skipping AGM and complaining online about decisions.

Jasonw

ccmp wrote: »

Its important to voice opinions at AGM's, which is where these decisions are made. It's no good skipping AGM and complaining online about decisions.

Good point!

Our club stays the same as last year at 690 euro. We're close to Cork City and have some of the best greens around. Pretty good value I'd say.

I've played Kinsale a good few times and I'd have to say that 1200 sounds a bit cheeky. Don't get me wrong, it's a decent enough track but I think there's better value to be had for what you're paying. Only trouble is that you'ld lose your entry money which was around 5 grand if I remember correctly?

Halfprice

i am a member of Woodlands Golf Clib in Kildare and ours is €850 for the year and is a fab course getting better and better every few months.. A lot of work been done there and a lot work been done on greens and are in great condition. Happy enough with the price for this year..

BennyTheDip

Newlands - €1,444 (includes €200 bar levy) +€25 on last year

Dero123

I am a member of Athy, €840 for 2011 includes €50 for the bar.
Left a course this time last year who increased the fee for 2010 by €75

Trampas

Halfprice wrote: »

i am a member of Woodlands Golf Clib in Kildare and ours is €850 for the year and is a fab course getting better and better every few months.. A lot of work been done there and a lot work been done on greens and are in great condition. Happy enough with the price for this year..

That is an increase on this year of €50. I didn't play it this year but the previous years it was hardly ever dry under foot.

Seems like clubs are increasing fees which is crazy imo

Sandwlch

Trampas wrote: »

Seems like clubs are increasing fees which is crazy imo

Not necessarily so. Its a difficult supply and demand balance, with many clubs run by amateurs who struggle to determine the optimum sub.

Some clubs with subs in 1200-2500 range (excluding the really prestige ones where high sub is part of the package to keep the riff raff out for those who want that kind of thing), do have some fat they can trim. Some of the more luxury club and course facilities can be cut to reduce costs to adjust for lower income.

Many clubs in the 600-1000 range dont really have a lot of room for manoeuvre though. Few members/societies/greenfees does not make it any cheaper to maintain the facility. And so with declining members are increasing subs by 50 or 100 to try to balance the books.

Lower the sub to keep members, is a familiar cry from those who are (understandably) struggling to keep their membership. But it is not necessarily true if you still have 500 or 600 members. You may maximise your revenue by increasing the sub from those who will remain members, rather than chose to leave because subs increases by 5 or even 10%. And so some clubs are correct to increase their subs. You need to know the details of the specific club.

Subs in member operated clubs are generally set with the best intentions for the members and the long term good of the club. They are not for profit organisations and are not out to screw anyone.

Just one honourary treasurer's view from the front line.

Dormy

Fellow Kinsale member here. While I agree the overall fee of €1200 is a bit high, it is not an increase on 2010 fee. You can also get €50 off by paying on time(before end of Jan I think). Think the club will be hit by further membership losses in the coming year unfortunately.

AldilaMan

Sandwlch wrote: »

And so with declining members are increasing subs by 50 or 100 to try to balance the books.

Lower the sub to keep members, is a familiar cry from those who are (understandably) struggling to keep their membership. But it is not necessarily true if you still have 500 or 600 members. You may maximise your revenue by increasing the sub from those who will remain members, rather than chose to leave because subs increases by 5 or even 10%. And so some clubs are correct to increase their subs. You need to know the details of the specific club.

Subs in member operated clubs are generally set with the best intentions for the members and the long term good of the club. They are not for profit organisations and are not out to screw anyone.

Just one honourary treasurer's view from the front line.

Increasing subs in this climate will NOT balance the books or maximise revenue. In a €1200 annual sub situation, every member lost to an increase needs 12 members to cough up an extra €100 to break even. If 700 members are asked to pay an extra €100 per year, and 100 members decide to leave, then the club has gained 600x€100 (€60,000 increased revenue) and lost 100x€1200 (€120,000 lost revenue) a net loss of €60,000. Break even point would be a loss of 45 or 46 members.

Just one member's view with some economic sense about the world we now live in.

carnsoreboxer

My sub invoice not in yet but OH Stackstown is

Sub 1139, non stop draw - 66, Restaurant levy 100, GUI levy 19 giving total of

€1324 plus optional Golfsure 20 = €1344 in total

Getting expensive for short golfing year!

couerdelion

Moyvalley sent the renewal out this weekend past.

€850 this year down from €1250.

To be fair though they do have the 'luxury' of being in receivership.

scout353

A member in Tramore which had a proposed 3% increase defeated at the AGM recently so sub stays around €1300 including bar levy, course development and drainage levies as well as GUI fee.

A proposal to cut entrance fee from a multiple of 4 times year one sub to twice year one sub was amended and now year one is now effectively a double sub - excluding double levies you are looking at around €2400.

charlieIRL

Moate, Co. Westmeath has the following deal on.....

Full membership €531 + GUI or ILGU levies (€611 in 2010)
Contributory membership €275 + levies + €5 per golf play. (€211 in 2010)

Compulsory bar voucher is €50.

The Nark

Sandwlch wrote: »

Lower the sub to keep members, is a familiar cry from those who are (understandably) struggling to keep their membership. But it is not necessarily true if you still have 500 or 600 members. You may maximise your revenue by increasing the sub from those who will remain members, rather than chose to leave because subs increases by 5 or even 10%. And so some clubs are correct to increase their subs. You need to know the details of the specific club.

Just one honourary treasurer's view from the front line.

Sorry Sandwich. I'm afraid that I find your logic almost offensive. Many of the golfers "struggling to keep their membership" have been club members for decades, supporting & representing their club as loyal club members do.

Your cold and impersonal analysis does not reflect the "club" in golf club.

Mister Sifter

couerdelion wrote: »

Moyvalley sent the renewal out this weekend past.

€850 this year down from €1250.

To be fair though they do have the 'luxury' of being in receivership.

It's obviously brilliant for the members i suppose, but not so much for the other clubs in the area who are not being kept open merely to service bank payments.

Surely the well-run and solvent courses down the road are going to be forced to slash their fees to maintain numbers and compete with the zombie courses like Moyvalley?

Great for the members, but it's a race to the bottom that could end up just landing more and more clubs in trouble.

golfwallah

"Race to the bottom" - isn't that what they said about Ryanair when they started their no frills, cheap fares policy. Turned out great for consumers up to now.

It's time for eletist attitudes to disappear from golf courses and competitition is just the thing to do it.

Whatever about protection of inefficient clubs through receivership, NAMA, etc., you can't buck the market in the long run - just look at the following .... and it's early days yet:

Malahide dropped their entrance fee from €17K to €5K but put it back up to €10K at their recent AGM. I guess people who had just paid €17K were a bit miffed.

Turvey is in receivership and most of their staff have been laid off. Seems to have opened for golf at €15 per round before the snow. I gather the members are working on a plan to revive it but it's going to be tough.

St. Anne's have memberships for €5K - down from something like €12K.

Balcarrick's reduced membership rates were approved at their AGM - no joining fee, €1,275 for full membership, similar reductions for other membership types. I gather they give a discount to existing members to encourage them to stay.

Hollywood Lakes have gone the other way by increasing their subs by about €100 at their AGM and are advertising in the national dailies.

Howth are offering deals but you have to ring them for details.

Donabate have reduced subs for existing members from something like €1,950 to €1,450 following re-structuring of their loans to an interest only basis for next few years.

MisterAnarchy

Golf clubs up and down the country are struggling to balance their books .
They got used to easy money over the last decade and are now desperately trying to cut the fat.
The average cost of operating a golf club in Ireland in 2009 was €990k.
Alot of money you would think but the alarming fact is that the equivalent figure in 1999 was €266k!
Thats a 270% increase in a decade .Madness.

Course maintenance is ~40% of costs,Administration ~18% and Clubhouse operations ~16%.
Revenues at clubs are dropping so the obvious thing is to cut the oversized costs .A 270% increase in any business over a decade is unsustainable.

3 out of 4 Irish courses made capital investments over the last 3 years .
In Dublin it was 93% of courses.
They obviously never saw the recession coming as like most people they were blinded by the emperors new clothes.

There has been an increase of approximately 45 new clubs in the last 10 years ,while at the same time the membership numbers of clubs have declined by 10%.
Higher number of clubs are serving the same number of people.
It was an artificial expansion.
There is an oversupply of golf clubs in Dublin of 35% to 53% in Leinster.
There are 100 courses within one hours drive from the K Club .

Here is a good study of Golf Clubs in Ireland ,detailing membership numbers,finances,costs,plans etc.
www.carrgolfservices.com/media/Ian_Duffy.pptx

Clubs need to get their costs down ,the average cost of running a club should not be 990k.
600-700k would be a far more maintainable figure ,its still a huge increase from 266k ,allowing for inflation,wage increases,insurance etc.

Between the months of November and February,1/3 of the year ,ground staff are effectively doing nothing .
180k on average per year on admin is also far too high ,thats over 5 people full time on an average salary.
The cost base must be slashed if clubs are to stay in business.
The days of expecting members to fork out 1000 euro a year to subsidise incompetent business plans are over .

Mister Sifter

I read something on Twitter saying that Hollywood Lakes is offering membership to newcomers of 900 euro for 2011... anyone confirm? Can't see anything on website.

jimjo

Mister Sifter wrote: »

I read something on Twitter saying that Hollywood Lakes is offering membership to newcomers of 900 euro for 2011... anyone confirm? Can't see anything on website.

Yeah that’s correct. It was advertised on the Irish Independent last week, only for new members, …. A good bit cheaper than the normal annual sub of €1500 and not that far out of the way to get too…

Although there are restrictions on this type of membership, god knows what they are

AldilaMan

€950 actually. Existing members had their sub increased by €100 to €1337 while new members get in for €950. Members who introduce a new member get a €250 reduction to their 2012 sub. Don't quite get the logic as some members will leave because of an increased sub only to be replaced by new members at a very reduced sub particularly if there is a €250 kickback.

strokes1

Mister Sifter wrote: »

I read something on Twitter saying that Hollywood Lakes is offering membership to newcomers of 900 euro for 2011... anyone confirm? Can't see anything on website.

Yet they increased the sub for existing members!!

They had a net decrease in members last year of c.76 (about €100k in subs for the club!) even when a very good new member offer of €1500 was on the table!

bogmanfan

Can you leave, and then rejoin as a new member?

AldilaMan

No.

Sandwlch

AldilaMan wrote: »

Increasing subs in this climate will NOT balance the books or maximise revenue. In a €1200 annual sub situation, every member lost to an increase needs 12 members to cough up an extra €100 to break even. If 700 members are asked to pay an extra €100 per year, and 100 members decide to leave, then the club has gained 600x€100 (€60,000 increased revenue) and lost 100x€1200 (€120,000 lost revenue) a net loss of €60,000. Break even point would be a loss of 45 or 46 members.

Just one member's view with some economic sense about the world we now live in.

I was suggesting that the 1200 sub club has room to cut its expenses and should not increase its sub further, so your calculation is a bit of a misreading of my post. Also, no one can accurately predict the actual movement of members, so even on you calculation, say you lost 20 members then the club would be in a net gain position. It is for the many clubs with 600,700 subs that increasing them could be the correct strategy.

Nor am I advocating such an increase as a general policy for all clubs, just pointing out that each clubs situation is different and different strategies will be approproiate in each case.

Sandwlch

The Nark wrote: »

Sorry Sandwich. I'm afraid that I find your logic almost offensive. Many of the golfers "struggling to keep their membership" have been club members for decades, supporting & representing their club as loyal club members do.

Your cold and impersonal analysis does not reflect the "club" in golf club.

No insult intended. But its not so easy managing the finances in a golf club these days with less disposable income, fewer golfers, unemployed members, members on short time, few greenfee visitors, and less (=almost no) corporate golf and society income. Yet still try to maintain a level of facility for the members of the club whose subs have built it over many years and not have it go bust and return to pasture. I assure you there is nothing impersonal about it - the task is doubly difficult when many of the members are your family, friends and neighbours in whose company you spend a great portion of you leisure time. It would be nice to be in a position to reduce subs for all, but if the consequence put the viability of the club as a whole at risk, then that is a reckless choice. When election time for officer/council posts comes around each year there is no forest of raised hands willing to take on the chore - they would be very welcome to it, and the grief and criticism that comes with it, if they did.

decko11

wonka wrote: »

I'm a member in Kinsale Golf Club, Cork - and the cost of next years membership is €1200, which i think is quite excessive. 1k is the fee, plus 100 for the bar, another 100 as a 'levy'. Maybe FF are in charge!!!

I'd like to find our what others are paying, as i really am considering moving club to save money.

maybe a survey would be good!!!

nah the FF ers prefer to hang around old head (from what I have heard )

AldilaMan

Sandwlch wrote: »

I was suggesting that the 1200 sub club has room to cut its expenses and should not increase its sub further, so your calculation is a bit of a misreading of my post. Also, no one can accurately predict the actual movement of members, so even on you calculation, say you lost 20 members then the club would be in a net gain position. It is for the many clubs with 600,700 subs that increasing them could be the correct strategy.

Nor am I advocating such an increase as a general policy for all clubs, just pointing out that each clubs situation is different and different strategies will be approproiate in each case.

I take your point at the 1200 end having re read your post. I'd love to think we were only going to lose 20 members and maybe that's the number the committee had in mind (or a little more). Last year we lost circa 135 and took on 40 so a net loss of 95 members. I wouldn't mind having a bet with Paddy Power on my numbers which I'm predicting at >100 to leave.

golfwallah

Just heard on the grapevine that Balcarrick in Donabate is announcing reduced subs at €1,150 for Full Members & €775 for 5 Day plus they have a whole range of different membership offerings.

I also heard they were profitable for last 2 years, which shows they have their costs under control.

Good value for a quality course.

rafared

Navan are offereing full membership for the cost of the sub which is 820E as far as I'm aware. The AGM was last tuesday and I know a cost reduction was due for discussion but I couldnt attend that night and havent heard if any change was made. That said the green staff have been on a 3 day week for ages and the condition of the course has gone downhill so maybe it doesnt represent good value in todays climate.
170 members didnt renew last year, 30 new people joined though leaving a net loss of 140 members. They also have had the membership on offer since september for 820E as a 15 months for the price of 12 deal and there were no takers.
All in all not a pretty picture.

davidrafferty

http://www.gumtree.ie/dublin/00/69992700.html

AldilaMan

davidrafferty wrote: »

http://www.gumtree.ie/dublin/00/69992700.html

Advertising on Boards.ie not allowed Captain Rafferty

glennhysen

Trampas wrote: »

That is an increase on this year of €50. I didn't play it this year but the previous years it was hardly ever dry under foot.

Seems like clubs are increasing fees which is crazy imo

The increase of €50 was to cover the shortfall of €30k from last year after the club's membership was reduced by 250/300.

I've been a member there for the last 3 years and the course drainage use to be poor but this year the work they have been doing seemed to pay off as the course was in the best condition I have ever seen.

rafared

rafared wrote: »

Navan are offereing full membership for the cost of the sub which is 820E as far as I'm aware. The AGM was last tuesday and I know a cost reduction was due for discussion but I couldnt attend that night and havent heard if any change was made. That said the green staff have been on a 3 day week for ages and the condition of the course has gone downhill so maybe it doesnt represent good value in todays climate.
170 members didnt renew last year, 30 new people joined though leaving a net loss of 140 members. They also have had the membership on offer since september for 820E as a 15 months for the price of 12 deal and there were no takers.
All in all not a pretty picture.

Just an update to let people know that the membership cost for next year in Navan remains the same at 820E.

Mister Sifter

rafared wrote: »

Just an update to let people know that the membership cost for next year in Navan remains the same at 820E.

Far too expensive for the quality of the course. Isn't that the same annual sub as Headfort? Fair enough there's a joining fee of a couple of grand up there (which rumours suggest is about to fall further), but clubs such as Navan need to cop on if they're going to get themselves out of trouble.

rafared

Mister Sifter wrote: »

Far too expensive for the quality of the course. Isn't that the same annual sub as Headfort? Fair enough there's a joining fee of a couple of grand up there (which rumours suggest is about to fall further), but clubs such as Navan need to cop on if they're going to get themselves out of trouble.

Not sure about headfort but I'll be surprised if Navan lasts 2 more years.
Its basically run by HRI (horse racing ireland) who dont give a rats ass about the club. In my opinion they are hoping members leave so they can close it down.

bumpynut

joined castleknock gc in sept. they were doing a deal 1750.00 . from sept until end of 2011 , + 150 .00 bar levy great value , considering it was 3300.00 last year . bit OTT i guess last year that is . great club but .

golfbgud

rafared wrote: »

Not sure about headfort but I'll be surprised if Navan lasts 2 more years.
Its basically run by HRI (horse racing ireland) who dont give a rats ass about the club. In my opinion they are hoping members leave so they can close it down.

Headfort 2011 season - The annual sub for full member is €979.00

Dr_Colossus

golfbgud wrote: »

Headfort 2011 season - The annual sub for full member is €979.00

That's includes playing rights to both old and new course? Played the new course for the first time last Sept and although wet and playing really long it looks like a great club with impressive facilities. Haven't played the old course yet.
Is there a joining fee involved or do they offer distant membership? Heard rumors on here that there was talk of a distant membership option.

golfwallah

Some comparative 1st year rates as of today - good shopping:

First Year 7 Day Membership subs (2011 unless otherwise indicated)
Hollywood Lakes €1,337 (Full), €950 (Introductory – subject to restrictions)
Balcarrick €1,150 (Full), €500 (Introductory – subject to restrictions)
Donabate €1,469
Beaverstown €3,000
Corrstown €1,492
Newlands €1,444
Stackstown €1,344
Hollystown €1,090
Rathcore €859 (Annual – for limited time)
Navan €820
Headfort €979
Turvey (in receivership) €2,250 (Full), €1250 (Annual) – 2010 rates
Moyvalley (in receivership) €850
Woodlands (Kildare) €850
Ashbourne €3,162 (Full), €1,500 (Annual – subject to restrictions)
Skerries €6,500
Balbriggan €8,000
Malahide €10,000
St. Annes €5,000
The Island €20,000

golfbgud

Dr_Colossus wrote: »

That's includes playing rights to both old and new course? Played the new course for the first time last Sept and although wet and playing really long it looks like a great club with impressive facilities. Haven't played the old course yet.
Is there a joining fee involved or do they offer distant membership? Heard rumors on here that there was talk of a distant membership option.

Yes there is a sign on fee but it was significally reduced in recent years. Give the office a call and they will fill you in on all the details. Still represents good value for two courses in a members owned club......

saintastic

Glen of the Downs, Bray, Co. Wicklow:

5 day €1,200
7 day €1,998

No entry fee.