Bank opening hours.

soden12

The Government has recently abolished (finally) the archaic privilege days that were available to public servants.

Now that we own the banks isn't it time that their opening hours were changed ?

It's senseless that they get off early on Christmas Eve, that they get an extra day after Christmas and Easter. Its senseless that they don't open until 10:00 ( or 10:30 on Wednesdays) and finish at the rather early time of 16:00

Us private sector folk work whatever hours we get and it seems like it's just to pay for these fat cats.

later12

As a former (though non-branch) bank employee, I agree with you entirely.

I always found it hard to explain why banks are so business un-friendly in this way - particularly in terms of late opening, early closing and almost universal closure over the weekend.
A welcome exception is Ulster Bank's new Saturday services, which although very limited, are at least a good beginning, following on from what Halifax began in the retail banking sector.

It really is time that retail banking became more flexible and more consumer and business friendly.

Given that Irish banking is about to undergo a major restructuring and downsizing, there may be some scope for that to occur in the near future.

Permabear

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Gumbo

donegalfella wrote: »

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motor tax offices in Dublin City dont close for lunch.
the reason the 3pm closure is to allow the ques within the building to be got through. ie. they close the doors at 3pm but there will still be ques there after 4pm most days.

not saying i agree with the opening times though, i think there should be some sort of rota basis to allow for later opening times maybe twice a week or something similar or maybe a half day saturday etc.

Permabear

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Gumbo

donegalfella wrote: »

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i know that, just pointing out that not all services are the same, ie. what happens in one county is not the norm for country wide.

BostonB

I don't understand the banks hours either. Ditto Mechanics and Garages or tyre etc places that don't open outside of regular hours when you have time to leave the car with them.

Depends where you work though. Some business, public sector offices are very quiet and theres no point in remaining open if theres no business either.

RichardAnd

soden12 wrote: »

The Government has recently abolished (finally) the archaic privilege days that were available to public servants.

Are you sure about this? I have alot of friends and family in the civil service and I've heard nothing about privilege days being removed. That's something I'd expect anyone would be eager to tell me about

emptybladder

My brother used to work for BoI and its not the case that they (branch staff) go in at 10 and leave at 4.

He was always in before 9 and rarely got out the door before 5.45pm. Paperwork and all that jazz has to be done after opening hours.

The 10.30am start once a week is for staff training for compliance etc. Ironically, there are very stringent rules laid out for the frontline staff (and have been for a few years). Shame the same didnt happen for those upstairs.

I do agree, though, that the 'opening' hours aren't customer friendly.

Uriel.

As the above poster alluded to, just because an office does not open till 10.30 or cos it closes at 3 does not mean that staff only work those hours. Staff in such offices have "behind the scenes" tasks/processes/paperwork etc to complete as part of their job. This work could not be completed if the public office was open.

Just remember also, the extension of the opening hours (to the public) of any private or public sector office will mean an increase in costs.

Privilege days and indeed bank time have yet to be removed. Senior officials on the implementation bodies for the CPA are currently engaged in negotiation on a number of issues, of which bank time and privilege days are a small part.

RichardAnd

Uriel. wrote: »

As the above poster alluded to, just because an office does not open till 10.30 or cos it closes at 3 does not mean that staff only work those hours. Staff in such offices have "behind the scenes" tasks/processes/paperwork etc to complete as part of their job. This work could not be completed if the public office was open.

Careful there, you're implying that public servants actually work and don't just sponge off the state . That's not boards works, you're meant to come on and blame state workers for the nation's woes and then berate them for having a job. Shame on you

Uriel.

RichardAnd wrote: »

Careful there, you're implying that public servants actually work and don't just sponge off the state . That's not boards works, you're meant to come on and blame state workers for the nation's woes and then berate them for having a job. Shame on you

Ooops sorry I forgot were I was :-D

Saadyst

How do banks in other countries manage to have longer opening hours then? Surely there's a lesson in here somewhere about how to do better business?

If you could get 10+ extra hours a week to see customers - ??? - profit

I always imagined it was some sort of Union nonsense, but who knows.


Anyway, the "paperwork" thing is funny, because it's like there's no other jobs in the country outside of state jobs or banks that require paperwork to be done.

Atilathehun

It's a great shame, they didn'y have even more customer unfriendly opening hours over the past 10 years or so, and a shame they didn't be as beaurocratic and convoluted as have the public service service departments. Perhaps the boom might never have happened. Ditto the consequent nightmare:p

BostonB

Saadyst wrote: »

...
Anyway, the "paperwork" thing is funny, because it's like there's no other jobs in the country outside of state jobs or banks that require paperwork to be done.

I assume because they'd need more staff to do it concurrently.

emptybladder

BostonB wrote: »

I assume because they'd need more staff to do it concurrently.

Exactly.

Also silly regulations like if you are involved in *any way* with the processing of a loan application (and I don't mean approving it, I mean doing the donkey paperwork), you now need to be a Qualified Financial Adviser. Which means more training and paperwork.

I stress, these are just the assistants on the counter, they don't make the decision on whether you get your loan or not.

If only IFSRA has such stringent conditions on management in the banks as they do on counter staff.

Fratton Fred

Ulsterbank appear to be falling in line with the rest of RBS which is good, but it appears to be almost a culture thing.

What amazes me is that the motor industry want me to fit in with them when I want to buy a car. Saturday mornings are busy for me, I have dogs to walk and girls brigade events or ballet classes to chauffeur for, so why won't they open Saturday pm or Sundays so I can test drive a car?

I think a lot of it is that these places (banks and car dealers) have had it so easy for the last ten years they haven't had to consider customer service, hopefully this recession will change that.

Saadyst

emptybladder wrote: »

Exactly.

Also silly regulations like if you are involved in *any way* with the processing of a loan application (and I don't mean approving it, I mean doing the donkey paperwork), you now need to be a Qualified Financial Adviser. Which means more training and paperwork.

I stress, these are just the assistants on the counter, they don't make the decision on whether you get your loan or not.

If only IFSRA has such stringent conditions on management in the banks as they do on counter staff.

I'll go back to my original point - why doesn't this happen in the UK, or the USA etc? Is it the legislation that needs changed? Some sort of working arrangement? Poor processes in the bank?

It's great saying they need to do this or that - but just compare it to their international competitors.

emptybladder

Saadyst wrote: »

I'll go back to my original point - why doesn't this happen in the UK, or the USA etc? Is it the legislation that needs changed? Some sort of working arrangement? Poor processes in the bank?

There probably isn't as much red tape in other countries, but that's just a guess.

Regardless of what's happened in the banking sector here, I'm not sure it's poor processes - the issue lies with the Regulator imposing ridiculous conditions for 'compliance'.

I'm not sure either what working arrangement could be introduced at a time when the banks are cutting staff, and yet people still demand to be served immediately, and complain about long queues.

How can you have serve people at the counter with less staff, more people being trained (in the changing regulations) and more paperwork to be done?

Saadyst

emptybladder wrote: »

There probably isn't as much red tape in other countries, but that's just a guess.

Regardless of what's happened in the banking sector here, I'm not sure it's poor processes - the issue lies with the Regulator imposing ridiculous conditions for 'compliance'.

I'm not sure either what working arrangement could be introduced at a time when the banks are cutting staff, and yet people still demand to be served immediately, and complain about long queues.

How can you have serve people at the counter with less staff, more people being trained (in the changing regulations) and more paperwork to be done?

That's what I mean - if they are 'forced' into this process because of some legal requirement - maybe it should be up for review.

The way the banks are losing money, clawing back 10+ hours per branch staff member is a whole lot of cash saved - immediately helping consumers and the bank directly.

I'm not saying go easy on regulation etc, but it seems whatever regulation is preventing them from doing a full 9-5 operation, never mind weekends, clearly didn't do much against the background of this massive banking disaster.

BostonB

I don't find it credible in 2010 there is too much paper work to be done. Thats what computers are for.

neilthefunkeone

I go to the bank maybe once a year so the opening times dont really affect me.. but i agree that they are very short.. Think they should be open at least one late night a week..

When i lived in canada the bank i was with was open 8-8 mon-fri and 8-2 saturday... Could always get down and cash my cheque!

RichardAnd

BostonB wrote: »

I don't find it credible in 2010 there is too much paper work to be done. Thats what computers are for.

Computers were once hailed as the being the instruments to bring about a paperless office. That clearly didn't happen. In the modern world, there is so much legal red-tape and procedures that, if anything, "paper" work is a larger part of buisness than ever before.

emptybladder

BostonB wrote: »

I don't find it credible in 2010 there is too much paper work to be done. Thats what computers are for.

LOL. Ah, y'know what I mean!

Stuff has to be checked, re-checked etc for compliance, end-of-day reports signed off on and filed, cash checked, security checks, and then they're supposed to be getting new accounts, new credit cards, life policy referrals and complying with money laundering regs and all that craic at the same time.

Saadyst, I think the regs are more to to with day-to-day banking (IDs and address verifications done, all the 'i's dotted and 't's crossed. Really mundane boring sh!te by the sounds of it.

And that's *my* point, the Regulator was concentrating on day-to-day banking instead of imposing strict regulations in relation to mortgage lending, deposit switching between IL&P and Anglo etc. That's not the frontline staff's fault, but they're the ones that get the abuse and the blame.

Maybe you could 'force' them to do it, but customer service would inevitably suffer. You can't make overstretched staff do more work.

But how do you 'claw back' 10 hours per staff member per week, when they're already working 9 to 5.30 or later? It's just that they're working behind closed doors.

These 'open' hours should have been introduced in the 90s IMHO before new software, compliance regulations etc were introduced, then there wouldn't be such an issue.

Welease

I'd imagine its a matter of competition (or lack) thereof..

In the UK for example, lots of banks open later/weekends, so banks need to compete and offer the same service. In Ireland there doesn't seem to have been the same competition for extended hours, so why would the banks bother to increase their costs?

BostonB

RichardAnd wrote: »

Computers were once hailed as the being the instruments to bring about a paperless office. That clearly didn't happen. In the modern world, there is so much legal red-tape and procedures that, if anything, "paper" work is a larger part of buisness than ever before.

Certainly where theres no will to change (or budget), it won't happen. If you're saying its impossible I don't agree. Plenty of places I've worked were in the main paperless. But certainly I've also worked in places where they clung to paper because for a variety of reasons. Almost none of them due to efficiency.

later12

BostonB wrote: »

Certainly where there no will to change (or budget), it won't happen.

If you're saying its impossible I don't agree. Plenty of places I've worked were in the main paperless. But certainly I've also worked in places where they clung to paper because for a variety of reasons. Almost non of them due to efficiency.

There is no reason whatever as to why the Irish banks couldn't be paperless and indeed often they can be cashless. I work in a French financial institution and all of the banks in the retail subsidiary are cashless banks. The fact is that retail banks need to modernise - both in terms of cash usage and software systems. We cling to the past in many ways.

They are as far behind their competitors and as the moody's report into AIB out today shows, losing efficiency

Factor: Efficiency Trend: Weakening
In the first half of 2010 operating expenses were down 5%, primarily due to a reduction in staff numbers of around 700, however the substantial decline in revenues led to a deterioration in the reported cost-income ratio to 63% from 48% in 2009 (this excludes the loss on transfer of assets to NAMA and also the gain on the capital exchange). We believe that AIB's focus on efficiency will benefit the organisation in the long term, particularly as income levels are likely to remain muted due to the difficult operating environment.
AIB scores B for efficiency on a three year basis. We would, however, expect this to worsen as a result of the lower levels of income being generated.

thebman

RichardAnd wrote: »

Computers were once hailed as the being the instruments to bring about a paperless office. That clearly didn't happen. In the modern world, there is so much legal red-tape and procedures that, if anything, "paper" work is a larger part of buisness than ever before.

Yes the problem with computer systems is that to replace a flawed paper system, a computer system has to be verified to work for all situations in many industries/areas.

BostonB

thebman wrote: »

Yes the problem with computer systems is that to replace a flawed paper system, a computer system has to be verified to work for all situations in many industries/areas.

Validation and compliance are standard in the computing industry. Its not like putting a man on the moon or anything. Financial, medical, its standard practice.

electron

2 things that would help a lot: 1. shift work for the employees; 2. ATM's that accept instant lodgements (commonplace in other countries).

marienbad

Banking hours have nothing to do with regulations/efficiency/paperwork or any of the tired old excuses. Every business has long come to terms with multi-tasking except these cartels where they for too long have made the customer wait on them and their unions rather than the other way round.

Competition my arse ! What ever about city centres they are still closing from 12.30 to 1.30 for lunch on the outskirts and I presume in small towns up and down the country. With the staff training every wednesday (Limerick) the banks (BOI) are open about 4 hours on that day, an absolute joke in this day and age and now they are to start charging for lodging/withdrawing our own money.

I know its unrelated ,but related in a kind of way are the Post Offices still closing from 1 to 2 .

Del2005

electron wrote: »

2 things that would help a lot: 1. shift work for the employees; 2. ATM's that accept instant lodgements (commonplace in other countries).

AIB have quick lodge machines. But you need to pre register for it. Why when I can take money out with my card can't I lodge?
Shift work would entail added costs for the banks which we'd end up saying

ardmacha

if the banks had had old fashioned lending practices to match their old fashioned opening hours then we wouldn't be in the mess we are in. I know which I would prefer.

soden12

I was able to transact business with the revenue today because their staff were working.

I couldn't get service from my state-owned Bank because the bwankers had a day off . As if the short opening hours weren't enough they get longer holidays than the rest of us.

Essexboy

Irish banks closed for THREE days this week while those in England & Wales were open again today.

An Post did the same the as the banks while libraries are closed from 23 December to 4 January (unlike those in Northern Ireland!)

A general Irish malaise?

goose2005

donegalfella wrote: »

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They want you to use the online service.

Del2005

goose2005 wrote: »

They want you to use the online service.

You can't use motortax.ie for commercial vehicles. And when do business people work?

cazzak79

Aib staff are facing into few thousand at least redunancies. which means branches will be closed. so extending branches hours etc is the last thing that will be happening.
as for lodging money into atms with all the tiger kidnapping here in ireland i dont think that be good idea.
if you can at all use the banking services online