Frozen Beastings

Shauny2010

I`ve got a pedigree Charli heifer due to calf next week but by the look of her she wouldn't have enough milk to color a cup of tea!!
I asked a dairy man down the road if he had any cows near calving that time so I could get some Beastings, he said he could do one better and went into the house and brought out a gallon of Frozen Beastings. He said that its the same but surly its not, has anyone used this before and is it the same ?

zetorman

Frozen is the extact same as the real thing !! Suckler farmers nationwide owe a huge debt of gratitude to all the dairy farmers who freeze surplus beistings, freeze it,store it and then give it away FREE to their neighbours when they need it. Community spirit at its best.

Dozer1

Frozen beastings is a life saver, wouldn't go into a calving season without some in reserve in the freezer. I' ve found it to be every bit as good as the fresh stuff. At at 3am in the morning you'd be glad to have it to keep the life in any calf

snowman707

do not thaw it out in the microwave

give your neighbour a couple of plastic one ltr containers and ask them to fill them

it's easier to have it in small containers and de frost in a bucket of warm water

we fill ice cube packs and freeze them and have them on hand for the lambing

Good luck with the calving etc, !

whelan1

or fill sink with boiling/hot water and leave the container in it to thaw, it doesnt thaw in a few minutes, dont water it down either

vanderbadger

Shauny2010 wrote: »

I`ve got a pedigree Charli heifer due to calf next week but by the look of her she wouldn't have enough milk to color a cup of tea!!
I asked a dairy man down the road if he had any cows near calving that time so I could get some Beastings, he said he could do one better and went into the house and brought out a gallon of Frozen Beastings. He said that its the same but surly its not, has anyone used this before and is it the same ?

always keep a few frozen in freezer..

zetorman

I heard that one about not using microwave to thaw ..... but we always thaw ours in microwave. SPEED is priority number one if a calf needs biestings. Granted the microwave might kill a few of the goodies but the advantages of the getting a good early feed into the calf outweighs any doubts. Always works for us anyway.

Shauny2010

Thanks for the feedback, you`d think that freezing it would somehow change it but it seems not. I`m going to freeze a few smaller bottles and have them in case.

Bizzum

I often used beastings from the microwave, it's slow though, and very difficult to thaw out a gallon drum of it.
Havin said that, its slow no matter how ya do it. Maybe when the heifer is sick to calve, think about getting the show on the road.
A few 1l or even 750ml bottles are woeful handy.
If your lucky you might even benefit from your neighbours vaccination regime and have a few beneficial antibodies kicking about in it!

vanderbadger

i generally keep a few of these on hand,
www.farmrite.co.uk/product/106009/Volac-Calf-Volostrum-450g
if a calf is slow to get up and suck then a quick liter of this stuff will give them a good lift and liven them up,its very handy. if I cant get a calf to suck though I will defrost proper beastings

aristo

Arc animal health do a great powder colostrum and kickstart powders for weak calves

vanderbadger wrote: »

i generally keep a few of these on hand,
www.farmrite.co.uk/product/106009/Volac-Calf-Volostrum-450g
if a calf is slow to get up and suck then a quick liter of this stuff will give them a good lift and liven them up,its very handy. if I cant get a calf to suck though I will defrost proper beastings

A few drops of vanilla essence on the tongue will get them sucking well too!

BeeDI

zetorman wrote: »

I heard that one about not using microwave to thaw ..... but we always thaw ours in microwave. SPEED is priority number one if a calf needs biestings. Granted the microwave might kill a few of the goodies but the advantages of the getting a good early feed into the calf outweighs any doubts. Always works for us anyway.

Id rather wait an extra half an hour to thaw beastings with warm water than zap it with micro waves. Wouldn't dream of putting such a valuable resource into a micro wave oven.

Min

I have some in my freezer, always good to have it there as you don't know when it's needed.

bbam

BeeDI wrote: »

Id rather wait an extra half an hour to thaw beastings with warm water than zap it with micro waves. Wouldn't dream of putting such a valuable resource into a micro wave oven.

From a bacterial perspective it is more important how it's done... If they're thawed on low and not allowed to overheat there would be no problem using the microwave... Microwaves are just another source of energy, same as a bucket of boiling water..

The problem would be sticking them on full power and boiling/superheating them which essentially steralises the beastings and killing it's goodness..

LostCovey

bbam wrote: »

From a bacterial perspective it is more important how it's done... If they're thawed on low and not allowed to overheat there would be no problem using the microwave... Microwaves are just another source of energy, same as a bucket of boiling water..

The problem would be sticking them on full power and boiling/superheating them which essentially steralises the beastings and killing it's goodness..

You know I hate to disagree bbam, but I do.

I agree that microwaves are "just another source of energy, same as a bucket of boiling water", but that is the very point, both the bucket of boiling water and the low-power microwave will denature protein, and destroy antibodies in the beastings. Waste of time.

That is why people in the other postings are talking about putting it into very small containers, so you get a big surface area, and more rapid thawing, because this procedure really should not be done using water much above blood-temperature. In which case it takes AGES.

The food value of an early feed of beastings is pretty much irrelevant to the newborn calf - they will live for days without food, if you ever had a cow calve unknown to you with no milk you would see this. It is the disease protection from an early feed of beastings containing bug-fighting antibodies that is critical, and these are really fragile things. Any fast heating (microwave or hot water) will wreck them and totally undermine all your good work.

Calves or lambs can only absorb these in the first few hours of life, and if it takes all day to thaw frozen beastings properly (and it does) this is a major problem.

Frozen beastings is a poor second to fresh beastings for this reason. Evene the very act of freezing and thawing it does some slight harm, but if you rush the thawing, then you can destroy it totally. Far better to get fresh beastings if you can, but preferably not from a farm with Johnes disease.


LC

bud10

Have used frozen biestings on numerous occasions over the years.

However i will say that the best way i find to defrost is place a 2 litre milk carton(frozen) in a bucket of boiling hot water, leave a couple of hours and they will thaw out perfectly. Has gotten us out of a hole plenty of times!

Thats my tuppence worth!

bbam

LostCovey wrote: »

You know I hate to disagree bbam, but I do.

now there's a supprise:eek:

no discussion required

Muckit

zetorman wrote: »

Frozen is the extact same as the real thing !! Suckler farmers nationwide owe a huge debt of gratitude to all the dairy farmers who freeze surplus beistings, freeze it,store it and then give it away FREE to their neighbours when they need it. Community spirit at its best.

Here. here. I totally agree. I've often got some from neighbours and no questions asked.

OP, the beastings aren't a miracle cure:rolleyes: Sure it'I get the calf a bit stronger for first day (2X 2litre feeds I think is minimum they recommend to get into calf on first day), but if he doesn't get up and suck himself after that, your fighting a losing battle, especially in the pedigree game.

A cow that can't (and I'm not saying your heifer won't) rear her own calf (and a good calf at that) isn't worth having. You might as well rear them as commercials.

It's a bitter pill to swallow, I know, being there, tried it :rolleyes:

I hope all goes well for you. And remember, to end on a positive note, it's not always the cow/heifer with the bestest looking udder that rears the best calf;)

blue5000

Another thing sheep men could do is inject a cow, either their own cow or a neighbours cow with the 8 in 1 sheep vaccine. It needs to be done a couple of months before calving. Then when the cow calves freeze some of her biestings in 250 ml containers for lambs.

By doing this the lamb would be getting biestings with the sheep disease antibodies. Good point above about johnes disease.

Bizzum

Can IBR and BVD be spread or introduced via colostrum?
I think both can be detected in milk sampling.
If it is the case we should all (us suckler farmers) be keeping a drop from one or two of our own cows that produce plenty of milk, and wont kick you death giving up a sup.

LostCovey

Bizzum wrote: »

Can IBR and BVD be spread or introduced via colostrum?
I think both can be detected in milk sampling.
If it is the case we should all (us suckler farmers) be keeping a drop from one or two of our own cows that produce plenty of milk, and wont kick you death giving up a sup.

BVD definitely could, IBR - not so sure.

I use frozen beastings all the time, I was only making the point that it is only 80 or 90% as good as fresh stuff, and very tricky to defrost without damaging its disease-preventiing properties. The simple way to check is to ask your vet to take a blood sample and send it off for a maternal antibody check - very cheap.

LC

Feargal as Luimneach

Lost Covey is correct. Thawing by microwave or by thawing by excessive heat (boiling water) will denature the immunoglobulins. The immunoglobulins are the important part of colostrum. The nutritional part of colostrum is very much less important.

BeeDI

Feargal as Luimneach wrote: »

Lost Covey is correct. Thawing by microwave or by thawing by excessive heat (boiling water) will denature the immunoglobulins. The immunoglobulins are the important part of colostrum. The nutritional part of colostrum is very much less important.

LC is always right.:D

whelan1

BeeDI wrote: »

LC is always right.:D

i don't agree with that:rolleyes:

snowman707

BeeDI wrote: »

LC is always right.:D

no body is always right, but from what I've read of his/her posts, he/she seems to have more on the ground experience than a lot of the posters on here

agcons

Ideally because every farm is different you should save beistings from your own cows as they carry the immunity for whatever problems exist on your farm. A lot easier said than done with a suckler herd. Most important point is to get something warm into the calf in the early hours to get it going and suckling away itself otherwise you re into a big uphill battle

whelan1

most annoying thing is when you give someone your last frozen biestings and then have none for your own

BeeDI

whelan1 wrote: »

most annoying thing is when you give someone your last frozen biestings and then have none for your own

Bet you wouldn't give them your last Rolo though.:)

bbam

On occasion we've used the powdered stuff, it's expensive but when you're stuck..:rolleyes: It seemed to work fine.. Always have a tub along with some electrolite just in case..
With sucklers it's a pain to find a cow that can be hand milked easily enough to have beastings to freeze..

LostCovey

whelan1 wrote: »

i don't agree with that:rolleyes:

Whelan1, For once in our lives we 100% totally absolutely agree on SOMETHING!!!!!!

I'm not always right.

But I always think I am.

LC

reilig

We'd normally keep a couple of 2 litre bottles milked from our own cows in the freezer. Its very useful to have. I'd always thaw it in warm water rather than the microwave (or boiled water) but I can understand why some people would want to have it thawed very fast. Its vital that you get a small drop into the calf as soon as possible after calving and normall a heifer that has a very small bag of milk will have a couple of mouthfulls for a calf. Its also vital that the calf sucks the heifer after calving in order to make her come to her milk faster.

But back to the vitals of getting the beastings or colostrum in fast. If the calf goes beyond 8 hours without getting it, there is a very high risk that you will lose him - 50ml is enough to keep him going. At 6 hours, the calf starts to deteriorate. The gut starts to stick together, he is starting to get weaker and his chances of survival are lower. Even if you do get it into him at 6 hours, his gut may be slightly damaged and he could be prone to suffering to severe scours later in life.
So therefore its vital that you get it too him as quickly as possible for the sake of both the fluids and the antibodies. Anyone that tells you different is lacking practical experience.

LostCovey

reilig wrote: »

So therefore its vital that you get it too him as quickly as possible for the sake of both the fluids and the antibodies. Anyone that tells you different is lacking practical experience.

That has been the thrust of the argument Reilig, but the food/fluid value is way less than the antibody value. I suppose the point I was trying to make was that it was false economy to be over-hurrying (not a word but you know what I mean) the thawing process. Slowly-thawed beastings at 4 or 5 hours beats quickly-thawed and damaged beastings given one hour after calving.

The change in the calf's intestine is an inability to absorb the antibodies rather than a physical 'sticking together'. This is why they are more prone to scours, joint-iill and evrything else they can get, if they don't get the beastings in time, and in good condition.

The calf has food reserves that will keep it going comfortably for a few hours - I am talking here about a calf on a dry bed in a warm shed.


LC

Feargal as Luimneach

reilig wrote: »

But back to the vitals of getting the beastings or colostrum in fast. If the calf goes beyond 8 hours without getting it, there is a very high risk that you will lose him - 50ml is enough to keep him going. At 6 hours, the calf starts to deteriorate. The gut starts to stick together, Anyone that tells you different is lacking practical experience.

"The gut sticks together"
Where did you get that information??

reilig

Feargal as Luimneach wrote: »

"The gut sticks together"
Where did you get that information??

Its actually common teaching in Animal Husbandry classes in Irish Agricultural Colleges. Why do you ask Feargal???

The technical term for it is "Gut Closure". The text book that was used by out tutour described the process as being a contraction of the gut as the calf excretes until eventually the entrance to the gut closes by sticking together and internal parts of the gut stick together all of which prevent the absorbtion of antibodies. By 4 hours old, the calf has lost 75% of its ability to absorb antibodies because of gut closure. Beyond 12 hours, while you still may be able to get fluids into the calf, the calf's gut becomes almost impermiable to large proteins and the calf's life is at grave risk.

Therefore, people can argue that the food and fluid value of colostrum is far less than the antibody value, but this is far from the case because if the gut does not receive food and fluid to prevent gut closure, then it will not be able to absorb the antibodies in the colostrum.

Unfortunately its 15 years since I was in Ag College and I cannot remember the name of the text book nor can I find it on line - although I do still have the notes folder that I had at the time and I have a research project that I did on gut closure which I pulled the above information from. However, there are several documents available to you online that will give you more information on the above:

here
http://www1.agric.gov.ab.ca/$department/deptdocs.nsf/all/faq8021

here
http://ag.udel.edu/anfs/faculty/kung/articles/importance_of_colostrum_for_calv.htm

here
http://www.thebeefsite.com/articles/1850/the-importance-of-colostrum-for-calves

and a very easy to understand explanation here
http://www.feedlotmagazine.com/archive/05-Feb/article10.html

I hope that this has been useful to you.

LostCovey

reilig wrote: »

Therefore, people can argue that the food and fluid value of colostrum is far less than the antibody value, but this is far from the case because if the gut does not receive food and fluid to prevent gut closure, then it will not be able to absorb the antibodies in the colostrum.

Reilig,

I am assuming I am 'people' in this context.

Of course the calf needs food, fluid AND antibodies, reilig.

I was merely trying to suggest that there is no panic to get food and fluid into a newborn calf, and that slow careful thawing of beastings ensures that when you give it, the calf gets food, fluid AND intact, working antibodies. However carefully you try to do that, the beastings is still a poor relation of fresh beastings. But the headlong panic to get it in ASAP, using microwave or boiling water to thaw frozen beastings, is what I have been arguing against. Yes better than nothing, but not good enough if you have a choice.

I think you/your teacher have the COMPLETE wrong end of the stick on gut adhesion.

There are possibly two thing being confused there:

- the beastings contains specialised immune proteins (antibodies), which are absorbed and travel in the calf's bloodstream for several weeks, giving him some protection against bugs and infections till the calf can produce his own.
These can only be absorbed in the first 24 hours of life (with a declining ability to absorb them after 12 hours).

- Some antibodies are not absorbed but are adhesive, and they become 'coated' on inside of the gut wall. Our Agricultural Science teacher in secondary school used to call this effect 'antiseptic paint', and this effect is why you should keep giving beastings for a few days beyond the 24 hour period - the antibodies in the beastings are still doing some good, even though they are not being absorbed. In older calves the antibodies are just digested like all other proteins as the digestive system of the young calf kicks into life, so there's no point in continuing beastings beyond a few days (and they disappear in nature at that stage too, remember).

I don't think there is any basis for the suggestion that a calf's guts stick together if they don't get beastings quickly. This is why Feargal is curious about where such a notion could come from. I don't think any of your linked articles suggest any such phenomenon exists.

LostCovey

Muckit

Lads lads!! Reilig and LC ......'Doctors differ and patients die'

Yer like two lads fresh out of vetenairan college!!

LostCovey

Muckit wrote: »

Lads lads!! Reilig and LC ......'Doctors differ and patients die'

I think yer splitting hairs at this stage, and not far off getting yer vetenarian degrees!

The only thing I ever graduated in was the NCT, and I had to repeat that.

LostCovey

Feargal as Luimneach

reilig wrote: »

Its actually common teaching in Animal Husbandry classes in Irish Agricultural Colleges. Why do you ask Feargal???

The technical term for it is "Gut Closure". The text book that was used by out tutour described the process as being a contraction of the gut as the calf excretes until eventually the entrance to the gut closes by sticking together and internal parts of the gut stick together all of which prevent the absorbtion of antibodies. By 4 hours old, the calf has lost 75% of its ability to absorb antibodies because of gut closure. Beyond 12 hours, while you still may be able to get fluids into the calf, the calf's gut becomes almost impermiable to large proteins and the calf's life is at grave risk.

Therefore, people can argue that the food and fluid value of colostrum is far less than the antibody value, but this is far from the case because if the gut does not receive food and fluid to prevent gut closure, then it will not be able to absorb the antibodies in the colostrum.

Unfortunately its 15 years since I was in Ag College and I cannot remember the name of the text book nor can I find it on line - although I do still have the notes folder that I had at the time and I have a research project that I did on gut closure which I pulled the above information from. However, there are several documents available to you online that will give you more information on the above:

here
http://www1.agric.gov.ab.ca/$department/deptdocs.nsf/all/faq8021

here
http://ag.udel.edu/anfs/faculty/kung/articles/importance_of_colostrum_for_calv.htm

here
http://www.thebeefsite.com/articles/1850/the-importance-of-colostrum-for-calves

and a very easy to understand explanation here
http://www.feedlotmagazine.com/archive/05-Feb/article10.html

I hope that this has been useful to you.

"Immunoglobulins are absorbed via a process called pinocytosis where by specialized cells in lower small intestine. However, with age, these cells are replaced by basal nuclei incapable of pinocytosis. This process is known as "gut closure" and it begins as rapidly as 12 hr after birth if no colostrum is fed. When gut closure is complete, immunoglobulins cannot be absorbed."
There is no physical gut closure nor does the gut "start to stick together". They are using the term "gut closure" for the cessation of pinocytosis of Immunoglobulins.

5live

Feargal as Luimneach wrote: »

"Immunoglobulins are absorbed via a process called pinocytosis where by specialized cells in lower small intestine. However, with age, these cells are replaced by basal nuclei incapable of pinocytosis. This process is known as "gut closure" and it begins as rapidly as 12 hr after birth if no colostrum is fed. When gut closure is complete, immunoglobulins cannot be absorbed."
There is no physical gut closure nor does the gut "start to stick together". They are using the term "gut closure" for the cessation of pinocytosis of Immunoglobulins.

Or in english, the ability of the intestine to absorb antibodies is highest in first 12 hours and declines rapidly after that. So everyone is right in his/her own way. Im beginning to think we all need to start calving as boredom is getting to our tempers. Happy tubeing/bottling to all:p EDIT with thanks to fergal for technical terms

essgee268

Shauny2010 wrote: »

I`ve got a pedigree Charli heifer due to calf next week but by the look of her she wouldn't have enough milk to color a cup of tea!!
I asked a dairy man down the road if he had any cows near calving that time so I could get some Beastings, he said he could do one better and went into the house and brought out a gallon of Frozen Beastings. He said that its the same but surly its not, has anyone used this before and is it the same ?

the handiest way i find with dealing with frozen beastings is to store it in 1L Elopak Milk cartons, they have a large surface area when thawing and are safer than plastic bottles if you are in a rush and have to cut them

snowman707

5live wrote: »

Or in english, the ability of the intestine to absorb antibodies is highest in first 12 hours and declines rapidly after that. So everyone is right in his/her own way. Im beginning to think we all need to start calving as boredom is getting to our tempers. Happy tubeing/bottling to all:p EDIT with thanks to fergal for technical terms

was thinking the same only yesterday, what a boring time of year!

normally the OH says I would be showing symptoms of PLT at this time of year, but have to wait a couple of more weeks this year.












PLT = pre lambing tension

5live

snowman707 wrote: »

was thinking the same only yesterday, what a boring time of year!

normally the OH says I would be showing symptoms of PLT at this time of year, but have to wait a couple of more weeks this year.












PLT = pre lambing tension

I can drop a few ewes over to you to ease the transition if you would like:D

reilig

Feargal as Luimneach wrote: »

"Immunoglobulins are absorbed via a process called pinocytosis where by specialized cells in lower small intestine. However, with age, these cells are replaced by basal nuclei incapable of pinocytosis. This process is known as "gut closure" and it begins as rapidly as 12 hr after birth if no colostrum is fed. When gut closure is complete, immunoglobulins cannot be absorbed."
There is no physical gut closure nor does the gut "start to stick together". They are using the term "gut closure" for the cessation of pinocytosis of Immunoglobulins.

Thanks Feargal. I'm not afraid to admit when I'm wrong. Perhaps it was just our tutor's way of explaining it that had me wrong. Anyway, as 5live says, the importance is in getting the colostrum into the calf asap because if it goes beyond the 12 hours, then there is a high risk of mortality.

At least you're not insulting in your corrections

Bizzum

Another point is this:
With a heifer as described here, waiting for beastings to thaw, I have on occassion milked some from said heifer, often the two far spins and give this to the calf.
It is usually a great boost to the calf and is a great help in getting the calf up to suck the other two quarters.
Again your finished the frozen beastings should be getting near ready and the calf is rearing to suck if it didn't get a belly full!

pakalasa

Another pt too. If you're taking beastings from another cow, use a mature older cow that has been on the farm a while, rather than a young heifer. She will have been well exposed to all the bugs on the farm and the quality will be better.

LostCovey

reilig wrote: »

Thanks Feargal. I'm not afraid to admit when I'm wrong. Perhaps it was just our tutor's way of explaining it that had me wrong. Anyway, as 5live says, the importance is in getting the colostrum into the calf asap because if it goes beyond the 12 hours, then there is a high risk of mortality.

At least you're not insulting in your corrections

I didn't mean to insult you, reilig