Indoor or Outdoor boiler?

Gwynston

We're thinking of getting the grant-assisted efficient boiler and heating controls upgrade to our 9-y-o detached, two-storey house.

We've never been happy with our oil boiler in the utility room as it is smelly and the flue is too close to the back door, as 75% of the time the prevailing wind direction will bring fumes in the back door, if it is open.

Our choices are to either move it to the garage (with the associated hassle/cost of 20 metres of dug up tarmac & garden), or put it on the end wall of the house about 4 metres and round the corner from where it is at the moment.

We've had a couple of quotes, plus a multitude of opposite opinions from friends and relatives about the choice of putting the boiler outside in a dedicated cabinet.

Is it a good or bad idea? Some are of the opinion that it's bad for efficiency/reliability etc.

tred

Gwynston wrote: »

We're thinking of getting the grant-assisted efficient boiler and heating controls upgrade to our 9-y-o detached, two-storey house.

We've never been happy with our oil boiler in the utility room as it is smelly and the flue is too close to the back door, as 75% of the time the prevailing wind direction will bring fumes in the back door, if it is open.

Our choices are to either move it to the garage (with the associated hassle/cost of 20 metres of dug up tarmac & garden), or put it on the end wall of the house about 4 metres and round the corner from where it is at the moment.

We've had a couple of quotes, plus a multitude of opposite opinions from friends and relatives about the choice of putting the boiler outside in a dedicated cabinet.

Is it a good or bad idea? Some are of the opinion that it's bad for efficiency/reliability etc.

Dont be made digging up tar!, Get an external boiler, maybe sit at edge of path, then its just path youll need to repair with a barrow of conrete. The external boilers now, come in galvanaised bodies, and are enclosed. Designed to be left outside. I guess the issue on efficiency is down to the pipe bringing hotwater from boiler to the house. you can get heavy lagged pipe for this section.

Gwynston

Yeah, we can put it round the corner on the path against the side of the house and route pipes from where boiler currently is through internal walls (only about 4m distance).

makes sense to me, but people have still said to me, "ooh - you don't want to putting the boiler outside..."

I'm not exactly sure why....
Opinions anyone?

tred

Gwynston wrote: »

Yeah, we can put it round the corner on the path against the side of the house and route pipes from where boiler currently is through internal walls (only about 4m distance).

makes sense to me, but people have still said to me, "ooh - you don't want to putting the boiler outside..."

I'm not exactly sure why....
Opinions anyone?

Id prefer them outside than inside!. I saw my father in laws house almost burned down when an inside boiler went wrong....fuel pipe coming in leaked......Hell never have one inside again..

Buford T Justice

People have boilers inside because it reduces the heat loss from the boiler to the house through the pipes. If anything, put it outside the walls. Otherwise you will be paying to heat the volume of water in 40 meters of pipes in addition to what you currently have to heat.

Joey the lips

I am guessing your running kerosene which is the smell you hate...

In my opinion boilers are kept inside to be cheaper... If i had my way i would have them as far away as possible,

My honest opinion is put it in the garage. Although outdoor boilers are galvanised they end up looking like crap at the side of the house..

Perhaps some people will give you there opinions that have one...

kscobie

Joey the lips wrote: »

I am guessing your running kerosene which is the smell you hate...

In my opinion boilers are kept inside to be cheaper... If i had my way i would have them as far away as possible,

My honest opinion is put it in the garage. Although outdoor boilers are galvanised they end up looking like crap at the side of the house..

Perhaps some people will give you there opinions that have one...

Yeah, i am with joey, outside every time, fit a plume kit if the smell might be an issue, indoor boilers and low level flues work out same price as outdoor modules( flue built in), handy for maintence, etc

Gwynston

Fingers McGee wrote: »

If anything, put it outside the walls. Otherwise you will be paying to heat the volume of water in 40 meters of pipes in addition to what you currently have to heat.

Well I've been assured that the insulated piping they use will only lose 1 deg C over that length, but it's very expensive stuff - something like €50 per metre :eek:

So that's a disincentive on top of the hassle of having to fix a knackered driveway/garden.

Gwynston

kscobie wrote: »

Yeah, i am with joey, outside every time, fit a plume kit if the smell might be an issue, indoor boilers and low level flues work out same price as outdoor modules( flue built in), handy for maintence, etc

Thanks for the advice. One of the installers I spoke to also recommended the flue kit - sounds like something worth considering.

Buford T Justice

Gwynston wrote: »

Well I've been assured that the insulated piping they use will only lose 1 deg C over that length, but it's very expensive stuff - something like €50 per metre :eek:

So that's a disincentive on top of the hassle of having to fix a knackered driveway/garden.

That's very expensive, but you will also have a greater volume of water to heat as well. How long does it take then to lose the 1 degre of heat, is that over 1 hour, or ten minutes etc..

nophd08

Gwynston wrote: »

Well I've been assured that the insulated piping they use will only lose 1 deg C over that length, but it's very expensive stuff - something like €50 per metre :eek:

So that's a disincentive on top of the hassle of having to fix a knackered driveway/garden.

It'll be the best money you will ever spend. No point in heating the footpath. At this time of year you will see the route of heating pipes that supposedly have been properly "lagged" going from garage to house. A line of melted snow and ice.
If going 4m I would use the insulated pipe.

CivilEx

Gwynston wrote: »

Well I've been assured that the insulated piping they use will only lose 1 deg C over that length, but it's very expensive stuff - something like €50 per metre :eek:

Gwynston, what is this insulated piping you are referring to...I currently have my boiler in my garage around 10m from the house and when I see all the melted snow along the route of my current (insulated) copper pipes I wonder how well they were insulated

Buford T Justice

CivilEx wrote: »

Gwynston, what is this insulated piping you are referring to...I currently have my boiler in my garage around 10m from the house and when I see all the melted snow along the route of my current (insulated) copper pipes I wonder how well they were insulated

Armaflex is one of them. Its a lot better than the standard stuff, but more expensive

nophd08

CivilEx wrote: »

Gwynston, what is this insulated piping you are referring to...I currently have my boiler in my garage around 10m from the house and when I see all the melted snow along the route of my current (insulated) copper pipes I wonder how well they were insulated

Probably your pipes are just lagged with standard indoor lagging or even armaflex. The proper kit is both pipes inside a 4 or 5" flexipipe with foam insulation, hence the 50 odd bucks a metre. Some plumbers try and do a diy on this and put qualplex inside a 4" wavin pipe and spray expanding foam around it which might be ok (but not recommended) for a metre or so but not long distance.
Soooo CivilEx... you're hard earned cash is heating 10m of ground:(

CivilEx

nophd08 wrote: »

Probably your pipes are just lagged with standard indoor lagging or even armaflex. The proper kit is both pipes inside a 4 or 5" flexipipe with foam insulation, hence the 50 odd bucks a metre. Some plumbers try and do a diy on this and put qualplex inside a 4" wavin pipe and spray expanding foam around it which might be ok (but not recommended) for a metre or so but not long distance.
Soooo CivilEx... you're hard earned cash is heating 10m of ground:(

I've been doing some maths around this.

We burn around 6.5 tonnes (€1400) of wood pellets per year, so in 5 years we would burn €7000 worth of pellets. 10m of pipe @ €50 = €500, so I would need to save this and some more over the next five years to make it worth my while.

If I burned €6000 worth of pellets in the five years + the €500 to install the pipe, I'd only be saving €500. At €6000k worth of pellets rather than €7000, the system would be 1/7th or 14% more efficient.

If I change to the more efficient pipe, will I get my money back? If I was burning oil the numbers might be more attractive, but it looks marginal enough unless I'm wrong on the math.

Micky Dolenz

you can get the pipe far cheaper than €50 a metre.

One thing to remember, you only do this once, so best get it right from day one.

nophd08

CivilEx wrote: »

I've been doing some maths around this.

We burn around 6.5 tonnes (€1400) of wood pellets per year, so in 5 years we would burn €7000 worth of pellets. 10m of pipe @ €50 = €500, so I would need to save this and some more over the next five years to make it worth my while.

If I burned €6000 worth of pellets in the five years + the €500 to install the pipe, I'd only be saving €500. At €6000k worth of pellets rather than €7000, the system would be 1/7th or 14% more efficient.

If I change to the more efficient pipe, will I get my money back? If I was burning oil the numbers might be more attractive, but it looks marginal enough unless I'm wrong on the math.

I was never great on maths but if I was losing heat in 10m of ground I would'nt sleep at night. Depends how easy it is to access your pipes. If they were'nt under concrete or tarmac then I would be tempted to have a look when winter is over...maybe by April:D

Anthonyk2010

Micky Dolenz wrote: »

you can get the pipe far cheaper than €50 a metre.

One thing to remember, you only do this once, so best get it right from day one.

I got a price last week of 32euro a metre. Double pipe in a 4" insulated pipe.

nophd08

Anthonyk2010 wrote: »

I got a price last week of 32euro a metre. Double pipe in a 4" insulated pipe.

Can you PM me the supplier of that pipe Anthonyk. Thanks

Joe7

Anything heating water should be inside the property it's heating, (or kept going 24/7) never mind 'lagging' or 'insulation'.

Cold (proper cold) countries use hot air.

nophd08

Joe7 wrote: »

Anything heating water should be inside the property it's heating, (or kept going 24/7) never mind 'lagging' or 'insulation'.

Cold (proper cold) countries use hot air.

With all due respect Joe7, there is enough hot air in that statement to accelerate global warming.

Anthonyk2010

nophd08 wrote: »

With all due respect Joe7, there is enough hot air in that statement to accelerate global warming.

I was quoted 82 cent for a litre of oil today joe, would you really leave it on 24/7.

Buford T Justice

Anthonyk2010 wrote: »

I was quoted 82 cent for a litre of oil today joe, would you really leave it on 24/7.

Lookin in the wrong places...

www.jonesoil.ie

Anthonyk2010

Fingers McGee wrote: »

Lookin in the wrong places...

www.jonesoil.ie

They don't have any depots near me. I rang four suppliers all between 81 and 82 cent a litre. By the way I'm in west Limerick.

Thanks anyway fingers.

CivilEx

Anthonyk2010 wrote: »

I got a price last week of 32euro a metre. Double pipe in a 4" insulated pipe.

The best quote I can get is €38 per metre..can you PM me where you got your quote?