Booked pub for party, pub now in receivership!?

hollymutt

Hi can anyone help or give me advice please. I booked and paid for a well known pub in Walkinstown for my 40th birthday on New Years Eve and the pub closed down on Tuesday without warning. They never contacted me at all and I have since been down twice and the place is totally closed. I have spoken to the police and a solicitor and nobody can do anything. I have put a lot of time and effort into organising this and paid for decorations, food etc and I dont know what to do. I cant even find out who owns the pub. Any knowledge or advice appreciated.

jimmycrackcorm

Generally pub receivers have been keeping the pubs open . I'd wait until the weekend to see if they re-open.

raymann

hollymutt wrote: »

Hi can anyone help or give me advice please. I booked and paid for a well known pub in Walkinstown for my 40th birthday on New Years Eve and the pub closed down on Tuesday without warning. They never contacted me at all and I have since been down twice and the place is totally closed. I have spoken to the police and a solicitor and nobody can do anything. I have put a lot of time and effort into organising this and paid for decorations, food etc and I dont know what to do. I cant even find out who owns the pub. Any knowledge or advice appreciated.

now that is ****e.

sceptre

Moved from Irish Economy to Consumer Issues.

jor el

Check www.insolvencyjournal.ie to see if a receiver/liquidator has been appointed. They may keep it going, in which case the party could still be on. They may also sell it off as a going concern, or they may liquidate assets. The receiver/liquidator would be your point of contact though. If the pub is being liquidated, you'll need to submit a request for any money owed, and you'll go in the list of unsecured creditors, and you may or may not get a partial or full refund.

As for contact being made, the business is closed, and the people working there are now jobless. Who was going to contact you? Gardai can't and won't do anything as it's not a criminal offence to go out of business, and a solicitor will only cost you more money by charging you a fee to do the communications with the receiver/liquidator.

handsome ken

Quite a few of the regulars from this pub are now coming in to another pub not too far away and from what they are saying, they seem quite confident that it may re-open soon - maybe they have been talking to the owners? Anyway all may not be lost yet. I hope your party goes ahead.

whippet

hollymutt wrote: »

I have put a lot of time and effort into organising this and paid for decorations, food etc and I dont know what to do. I cant even find out who owns the pub. Any knowledge or advice appreciated.

Unfortunatly all you can do is check if it opens this weekend, if it does ask someone what they plans are. A reciever / administrator might consider opening on the busy nights to get as much cash back in.

Other than that all you can do is join the probably long list of unsecured creditors and hope there might be a little left in the pot after the secured creditors are paid.

You have to realise in this day and age business will go bust, the staff might not have any idea until the doors are closed and as such you don't have any reason to involve the guards.

The small company I work for had a 'good' customer suddenly close the door during the summer, oweing us €250k and no prospect of getting anything at all. The recession is a bitch alright.

Bluetonic

The OP is on Liveline right now.

Lapin

Talk to Joe

hollymutt

Had to tell him, 2 years trading without a licence thats unbelievable for a big pub like that!!

If they don't have a license I doubt the accountants in charge will risk prosecution by opening.

steo87

handsome ken wrote: »

Quite a few of the regulars from this pub are now coming in to another pub not too far away and from what they are saying, they seem quite confident that it may re-open soon - maybe they have been talking to the owners? Anyway all may not be lost yet. I hope your party goes ahead.

The OP should get onto this other pub and ask them would they consider taking over the party and hosting in their pub. It gives them custom, there will be plenty of people spending money in there, and for this reason they may even do it for free.

castie

steo87 wrote: »

The OP should get onto this other pub and ask them would they consider taking over the party and hosting in their pub. It gives them custom, there will be plenty of people spending money in there, and for this reason they may even do it for free.

New years eve id ay lots of people will be very busy anyway.

Bluetonic

steo87 wrote: »

The OP should get onto this other pub and ask them would they consider taking over the party and hosting in their pub. It gives them custom, there will be plenty of people spending money in there, and for this reason they may even do it for free.

A local establishment offered the OP their facilities for the night in question.

theteal

Just popping in to be nosey, I'm a local, what's the pub in question? I heard of one up at the roundabout went into receivership about 3 weeks ago, is this a second Walkinstown watering hole to go bust?

Dempo1

hollymutt wrote: »

Hi can anyone help or give me advice please. I booked and paid for a well known pub in Walkinstown for my 40th birthday on New Years Eve and the pub closed down on Tuesday without warning. They never contacted me at all and I have since been down twice and the place is totally closed. I have spoken to the police and a solicitor and nobody can do anything. I have put a lot of time and effort into organizing this and paid for decorations, food etc and I dont know what to do. I cant even find out who owns the pub. Any knowledge or advice appreciated.

I assume your talking about th infamous Kestrel House. Unfortunately it has been flagged since last April this pub was in trouble, particularly with suppliers. The harsh reality is there is little you can do as explained by the receiver when contacted by Live Line. Ultimately you will be deemed an unsecured creditor and will be the last to be paid if at all. There is an added complication regarding the license which lapsed over two years ago. This in itself is astonishing as this premises was trading illegally during this time, i am amazed the Gardai failed to act on this.

I am unsure if you paid any deposits but this is definitely lost, any other expenses are nothing to do with the Kestrel House. Finally, i am also under the impression the catering in this Establishment was under franchise and you now have an additional hurdle as whomever was the franchisee would have been responsible for the catering of the event, albeit the Manager "whom must have seen the writing on the wall" took the deposit.

It is highly likely this premises and its current owners will fail to obtain a license again and also likely the premises will be sold to another company/person.

Dempo1

jimmycrackcorm wrote: »

Generally pub receivers have been keeping the pubs open . I'd wait until the weekend to see if they re-open.

Nope in this case, these gob****es let the license lapse for two years, probably because they could not obtain a tax clearance certificate, i am astonished the Gardai permitted this premises trade illegally for two years, in addition they would not have fire certs etc, bizarre. If a receiver does manage to get a license, it will trade under management and they are highly unlikely to honor any deposits or commitments.

Guy:Incognito

theteal wrote: »

Just popping in to be nosey, I'm a local, what's the pub in question? I heard of one up at the roundabout went into receivership about 3 weeks ago, is this a second Walkinstown watering hole to go bust?

This is the one at the roundabout :-)

91011

Dempo1 wrote: »

, in addition they would not have fire certs etc, bizarre..

the holding of a drinks licence has absolutley no bearing whatsoever on fire certs or any other safety certs

you probably need a fire cert to obtain a drinks license or dance license but absolutley not the other way around

Dempo1

91011 wrote: »

the holding of a drinks license has absolutely no bearing whatsoever on fire certs or any other safety certs

you probably need a fire cert to obtain a drinks license or dance license but absolutely not the other way around

I beg to differ, the entire licensing process which is done annually requires a host of additional requirements. Notwithstanding the actual Pub license itself, the Publican must obtain Tax clearance certificates etc. Whilst the Dance license is an entirely separate matter (usually only required for night clubs etc) all relevant certification regarding the suitability of the Premises and indeed the proprietor is taken into consideration by a district Judge who will request all certificates to be produced in court on an application for License renewal. My point is that it is highly unlikely these chancers had any documentation or certificates. I am also curious what this premises insurance status was and a certificate of same would require an up to date Pub license. Either way the proprietors of this establishment where clearly chancing their arms and its a complete disgrace they were permitted under the nose of the Gardai to trade for a two year period illegally.

wyndham

Dempo1 wrote: »

I beg to differ, the entire licensing process which is done annually requires a host of additional requirements. Notwithstanding the actual Pub license itself, the Publican must obtain Tax clearance certificates etc. Whilst the Dance license is an entirely separate matter (usually only required for night clubs etc) all relevant certification regarding the suitability of the Premises and indeed the proprietor is taken into consideration by a district Judge who will request all certificates to be produced in court on an application for License renewal. My point is that it is highly unlikely these chancers had any documentation or certificates. I am also curious what this premises insurance status was and a certificate of same would require an up to date Pub license. Either way the proprietors of this establishment where clearly chancing their arms and its a complete disgrace they were permitted under the nose of the Gardai to trade for a two year period illegally.

Agreed. If I were the propietor of a neighbouring licensed premises with my paperwork in order and all the expense that entails, I would be mightily peeved, to say the least.

Dempo1

wyndham wrote: »

Agreed. If I were the proprietor of a neighbouring licensed premises with my paperwork in order and all the expense that entails, I would be mightily peeved, to say the least.

Its extraordinary stuff, I'm in the business but nowhere near walkinstown r Dublin for the matter and i was aware it had no license, I have a sneaking suspicion is was in fact other pubs in the area (and rightly so) raising objections to the Kestrel House trading. I am just amazed they got away with it for so long. Normally local Gardai are on top of all and any applications or for that none compliance with licensing laws. As big as this place was, a humble local gard could have walked in at any time and shut up shop as too could the chief fire officer.

Sadly i don't think this is the only venue trading without a license, primarily because of financial troubles and this case will i sense lead to more rigorous enforcement and more closures!

busman

hollymutt wrote: »

Had to tell him, 2 years trading without a licence thats unbelievable for a big pub like that!!

Would operating the business without a licence not leave the directors legality liable for all sort of things?

How could they enter into a contract with the OP without out?
Sounds a lot like fraud to me. Selling something that you don't actually have!

Dempo1

busman wrote: »

Would operating the business without a license not leave the directors legality liable for all sort of things?

How could they enter into a contract with the OP without out?
Sounds a lot like fraud to me. Selling something that you don't actually have!

Unfortunately the nature of booking events in Pubs is such contracts are not entered into, a deposit is paid, details noted in events book and off you go, so technically no contract is entered into. Wedding events are probably the only events booked at venues that could be considered contracts and primarily because they are more complex long term advance bookings. Sadly in the OP case, even if they got a receipt for the deposit paid, they have little hope of getting it back. Ethically the management behaved disgracefully and they must have known this premises was in a precarious position. Unfortunately ethics is not high on the list of priorities of the receivers and i suspect numerous suppliers as well as the staff have been left high and dry.

As for the directors and liabilities, all too often they can walk away and leave a pile of ****e behind but in this case a prosecution regarding the license is quite possible, limited company of not!