New front tyres so got 100% thread. Back 50% - swap them? (FWD car)

worded

Another opinion pls..............

I bought two new back tyres.

I was told it was old thinking to have more thread on fronts.
On a front wheel drive car is this true?
His argument was that if you loose traction on the back you are fcuked so leave as is.

Whats your opinion?

Tigger

good tyres should be on the back but all tyres should be good

Zubeneschamali

Leave the good ones on the back. Do a search, there's a long thread on the subject. Tyre manufacturers recommend putting the best tyres at the rear on a FWD, there's a fifth gear video showing why on youtube.

bladespin

I've always believed in having the best tyres on the front (FWD), the power and more importantly the braiking forces are much more reliant on the front tyres, that said I would always have decent rubber all round.

Zubeneschamali

bladespin wrote: »

I've always believed in having the best tyres on the front (FWD), the power and more importantly the braiking forces are much more reliant on the front tyres,

I used to believe that too, until I read the makers recommendations and watched the videos.

luv2craic

All round should be good, but miportantly, get the front ones checkd too cos nasty snow n ice coming up later this week...

Avns1s

I agree with bladespin on this one. Particularly so in the current weather conditions with snow and all. All your power is going out through the front and most of your braking is also through the front in all circumstances. It's a no brainer in my opinion!

As a follow on though, I try and buy tyres in fours rather than twos. I find that rotation every 5000 miles means that the tyres are pretty equal in wear all round. I also get better mileage per tyre so works out cheaper overall. Just an aside!!

Zubeneschamali

Zubeneschamali wrote: »

the makers recommendations and watched the videos.

to cater for f**ktards who don't drive to the conditions

worded

Avns1s wrote: »

I agree with bladespin on this one. Particularly so in the current weather conditions with snow and all. All your power is going out through the front and most of your braking is also through the front in all circumstances. It's a no brainer in my opinion!

As a follow on though, I try and buy tyres in fours rather than twos. I find that rotation every 5000 miles means that the tyres are pretty equal in wear all round. I also get better mileage per tyre so works out cheaper overall. Just an aside!!

Thats seems like a good idea.

mgbgt1978

Tyre on the front of a FWD car will obviously wear a lot faster than the rears.
The tyre manufacturers have at last come up with a reason (at least in their eyes) to try to convince people to purchase new tyres sooner.

Zubeneschamali

RoverJames wrote: »

to cater for f**ktards who don't drive to the conditions

Actually, no. People who think they need the best tyres at the front want to transmit high braking and accelerating force. People who are driving smoothly when near the limit are the ones who need the best tyres at the rear.

Again, look at the video of VBH at a wet roundabout: she's not braking or accelerating, she's just driving around a bend.

The car loses the rear far earlier with the bad tyres at the back.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l5YsQ_a_ijA

langdang

bladespin wrote: »

I've always believed in having the best tyres on the front (FWD), the power and more importantly the braiking forces are much more reliant on the front tyres, that said I would always have decent rubber all round.

I'd agree, especially for your average irish FWD car - how many of them would be known for oversteer? There's very few times I've encountered unexpected/unprovoked oversteer in a FWD car! My last car had more understeer than a supertanker, there was no way the back was ever gonna pass me out unless I soaked the back tyres in diesel, so I always put the best tyres on the front (but generally tried to wear the full set as evenly as I could).

In an emergency situation I'd like to be able to lamp on the brakes and let ABS do it's job. I reckon this "best on the back" might be OK advice for people who don't ever pay attention to how their car handles, like to brake in corners and no idea how to correct a skid etc.

Zubeneschamali

Zubeneschamali wrote: »

Actually, no. People who think they need the best tyres at the front want to transmit high braking and accelerating force. People who are driving smoothly when near the limit are the ones who need the best tyres at the rear.

Again, look at the video of VBH at a wet roundabout: she's not braking or accelerating, she's just driving around a bend.

The car loses the rear far earlier with the bad tyres at the back.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l5YsQ_a_ijA

How many times have you lost the rear of a fwd car ?
People who think they need their best tyres on the front may be thinking of an emergency stop situation, f all point having more rubber on the back than the front then

OldmanMondeo

Zubeneschamali wrote: »

Again, look at the video of VBH at a wet roundabout: she's not braking or accelerating, she's just driving around a bend.

The car loses the rear far earlier with the bad tyres at the back.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l5YsQ_a_ijA

Aye but that is a woman driving....;)

Good tyres should alway be put at the rear, once a tyre reaches 3mm it should be replaced, as you hav very little thread left.

mickdw

That advice of fitting new tyres to rear of car is a good 'cover all' recommendation but IMO it totally depend on the particular car and certainly in my own case, I like to be able to get the car into a bend sharply and then look after the back end. Everyone says understeer is safe and oversteer is not but I find that there is nothing a scary as attempting to turn in and the car going straight on in an aquaplaning situation for example. For this reason I would always fit the new tyres to the front.
You get the best thread meeting the standing water first and this means you have the best tyre available for braking, turning etc in wet conditions. The new front tyre is also lifting alot of water which helps the rear tyre quite a bit as the part worn rear wont have as much water to deal with.
Its a no brainer for me to put them on the front.
I like much different tyres on back of my car compared to what goes on the front so they are not interchangeable in my own case at the minute anyway.

sundodger5

Most cars recommend new to rear however check the owners manual, VWs with ESP recommend new to front there may be others..

challengemaster

Avns1s wrote: »

I agree with bladespin on this one. Particularly so in the current weather conditions with snow and all. All your power is going out through the front and most of your braking is also through the front in all circumstances. It's a no brainer in my opinion!

Might want to apply some brain and rethink.

Current weather conditions, less friction/grip. Now apply some heavy braking to the front of the car which has more grip than the rear

result: you'll soon have your rear end break away.

A lot more likely to result in an accident.

itarumaa

Problem nowdays is that no-one wants to use their own jugment with this, they just believe what other people say.

Cars are different, some get understeer some even oversteer. For instance I have a Volvo S40 and trying to get that car sideways takes lot of effort, so I definitely want better tyres in the front, otherwise it will not turn to corners at all.

Before I was driving Peugeot 205 and with that car you wanted the better tyres in back, since it was so on-off car.

So if I would be op, I would use better tyres in the front, but I do admit that I like lift of oversteering and neutral or slighty oversteering behaviour with fwd car.

Only time when I actually had issue with rear tyres losing grip was with studded tyres when front ones were brand new and rear ones almost gone. That was not fun anymore, because rear end was so loose, but with summers and safe planned cars we have today I cannot see any point to put better tyres in the back, specially if more used tyres have 50% thread left.

Tigger

those of us who would understand the answer "it depends on how she acts on lift off oversteer" already make our own decisions

generic answer is put best on rear

busman

Nice video and all, but I'm not driving on a roundabout all day!

To me the question and the biggest safety issue is which is better at stopping me the fastest when I brake hard in a straight line?

Engineering head then says "good on front, fu(k the back"

Also love to see how she would get on with equally worn tyres on all four wheels?

I feel a Design of Experiment (DOE) comin' on ...noooo must resist!!!

mcwhirter

If the rear tyres on a FWD are more important on the back, where do you put winter tyres if you only have 2 of them, front or back??

challengemaster

busman wrote: »

Nice video and all, but I'm not driving on a roundabout all day!

To me the question and the biggest safety issue is which is better at stopping me the fastest when I brake hard in a straight line?

Nah, you're driving on Irish roads - May aswell be a fecking roundabout for the amount of turns you'll get.

Think about it, how much of the time are you actually in a position to brake in a straight line on Irish roads, and are you SURE that you'll only need to brake in a straight line, ever? If you're certain, well and grand.

mcwhirter wrote: »

If the rear tyres on a FWD are more important on the back, where do you put winter tyres if you only have 2 of them, front or back??

In the shed until you buy 2 more. putting on only 2 winter tyres is worse than driving on all summers.

mcwhirter

RoverJames wrote: »

How many times have you lost the rear of a fwd car ?
People who think they need their best tyres on the front may be thinking of an emergency stop situation, f all point having more rubber on the back than the front then

I remember losing the back end on an alfasud i owned years ago,and that was a good handling car

bladespin

challengemaster wrote: »

Might want to apply some brain and rethink.

Current weather conditions, less friction/grip. Now apply some heavy braking to the front of the car which has more grip than the rear

result: you'll soon have your rear end break away.

A lot more likely to result in an accident.

Under braking the front of a front engined car always has more grip than the rear thanks to the weight shift, even on worn tyres.

I'd also be of the opinion that loosing steering would be much more likely to result in an accident.

TBH as far as I can see it all depends on where and whe you want the extra grip; I prefer to be sure of my steering, braking and would like front grip to be able to drive out of a rear slide knowing for sure where the front was going than to be sure the rear won't break away while cornering (I'd argue if that if you think you're going to need the extra rear grip that you're driving too fast for the conditions).

BTW if you're going to use winter tyres on a fwd car then the front is fine, you certainly won't make the car worse by just having 2 on the front but 4 will be better.

sundodger5

bladespin wrote: »

I'd also be of the opinion that loosing steering would be much more likely to result in an accident.

TBH as far as I can see it all depends on where and whe you want the extra grip; I prefer to be sure of my steering, braking and would like front grip to be able to drive out of a rear slide knowing for sure where the front was going than to be sure the rear won't break away while cornering (I'd argue if that if you think you're going to need the extra rear grip that you're driving too fast for the conditions).

your steering is fecked once the pendelum effect kicks in. saw it in front of me very recently. lucky enough soft landing for the driver but once the back went.....game over.

challengemaster

bladespin wrote: »

Under braking the front of a front engined car always has more grip than the rear thanks to the weight shift, even on worn tyres.

Well haven't you just disproved your own point then? It obviously makes more sense then to keep the best tyres on the rear, keeping the grip more balanced.

challengemaster

challengemaster wrote: »

Well haven't you just disproved your own point then? It obviously makes more sense then to keep the best tyres on the rear, keeping the grip more balanced.

Nope, fronts do more of the stopping, in a E stop situation fwd car with better thread up front will stop in a shorter distance

Zubeneschamali

RoverJames wrote: »

Nope, fronts do more of the stopping, in a E stop situation fwd car with better thread up front will stop in a shorter distance

Especially when it swaps ends and hits a solid object backwards.

Zubeneschamali

Zubeneschamali wrote: »

Especially when it swaps ends and hits a solid object backwards.

I've never lost the back of a fwd car in years of driving so I don't reckon that's very likely to happen. Have you ?

Zubeneschamali

RoverJames wrote: »

I've never lost the back of a fwd car in years of driving so I don't reckon that's very likely to happen. Have you ?

Yes, on black ice.

BronsonTB

If I put the best tyres on the back of the celica and only 50% on the front it would spend more time spinning....:p

But I've always been told to keep the tyres on the front good...

Zubeneschamali

Zubeneschamali wrote: »

Yes, on black ice.

Oh right Doesn't really matter what tyres were where then really.
Well other than that ?

Gary ITR

RoverJames wrote: »

to cater for f**ktards who don't drive to the conditions

Aren't you a very angry young man today? Can you dial the language down a notch or two, thanks

Onkle

Onkle wrote: »

Aren't you a very angry young man today? Can you dial the language down a notch or two, thanks

No probs, I shall remove that word from my motors vocab
Not particularly angry though, I do have a touch of the flu.

langdang

RoverJames wrote: »

Oh right Doesn't really matter what tyres were where then really.
Well other than that ?

Gravel;)oh wait, same logic!
I think we'll all have to agree to disagree, I'll continue to fit them according to the car and my own feel for it under my driving style...

bladespin

challengemaster wrote: »

Well haven't you just disproved your own point then? It obviously makes more sense then to keep the best tyres on the rear, keeping the grip more balanced.

Maybe you should read my point again, as I said in it I prefer to have confidence in the front end, each to their own but that's the way I like it and it suits my driving style.

BTW I'll never puch a car so hard that the rear could break away, I suggest you calm your driving if that's your experience.

bladespin

bladespin wrote: »

BTW I'll never puch a car so hard that the rear could break away, I suggest you calm your driving if that's your experience.

Indeed

Also one shouldn't be standing on the brake in gravel or on black ice