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Public Service bonuses

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Comments

  • #2
    folan
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,630 ✭✭✭folan


    Look, its the same as any job. If their performance deserves it, then give them a bonus. If you work your ass off, you deserve a bonus.

    These civil servants are hopefully being rewarded for saving the tax payers thousands. Hopefully.

    If its a case of bonuses for the sake of bonuses though, like i've been lead to believe in AIB, then the rotten core of the civil service lives on, and i can almost guarantee that the Irish people will continue to vote for the same rotten TDs who enable it all. Were irish, it seems we only care about that when the government is in session.


  • #3
    TheZohanS
    Closed Accounts Posts: 11,582 ✭✭✭✭TheZohanS


    folan wrote: »
    Look, its the same as any job. If their performance deserves it, then give them a bonus. If you work your ass off, you deserve a bonus.

    These civil servants are hopefully being rewarded for saving the tax payers thousands. Hopefully.

    It was the Public Service employee's that got us in this mess in the first place.


    /runs


  • #4
    CiaranC
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,300 ✭✭✭CiaranC


    folan wrote: »
    These civil servants are hopefully being rewarded for saving the tax payers thousands. Hopefully.
    How could anyone in the Department of Finance deserve any sort of bonus after their performance over the last number of years?


  • #5
    folan
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,630 ✭✭✭folan


    TheZohan wrote: »
    It was the Public Service employee's that got us in this mess in the first place.


    could also have been the banks and their culture of bonuses for coming in. though i think they were called loans, and they were given to developers instead of staff.


  • #6
    folan
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,630 ✭✭✭folan


    CiaranC wrote: »
    How could anyone in the Department of Finance deserve any sort of bonus after their performance over the last number of years?
    I live in hope.



    Cant afford much else


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  • #7
    bigneacy
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,222 ✭✭✭bigneacy


    folan wrote: »
    Look, its the same as any job. If their performance deserves it, then give them a bonus. If you work your ass off, you deserve a bonus.

    These civil servants are hopefully being rewarded for saving the tax payers thousands. Hopefully.

    If its a case of bonuses for the sake of bonuses though, like i've been lead to believe in AIB, then the rotten core of the civil service lives on, and i can almost guarantee that the Irish people will continue to vote for the same rotten TDs who enable it all. Were irish, it seems we only care about that when the government is in session.

    A company (Ireland Inc.) that is haemorrhaging cash and is severely in the red, heading towards catastrophic ruin on an unprecedented scale has no business handing out bonuses to anyone, no matter what they done. Bonus's are a luxury for companies that are performing well. When these bonus's were handed out Ireland was on a road to ruin. Now Ireland is the lauging stock of the first world due to dreadful mismanagement and greed. The revelations of these bonuses are just a twist of the dagger...
    These civil servants are hopefully being rewarded for saving the tax payers thousands. Hopefully.

    You wouldn't have worded it like that if you truly believed it. We know what this government is like and how wasteful they are with money. It is nigh impossible to believe that even 50% of those bonuses were based in any way on performance.


  • #8
    iregk
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,235 ✭✭✭iregk


    folan wrote: »
    Look, its the same as any job. If their performance deserves it, then give them a bonus. If you work your ass off, you deserve a bonus.

    Really? If its the same as any job then it means if your performance deserves it you get to keep your job and take home a monthly pay cheque. Bonuses are exactly that. A bonus, not a guarantee and you should be grateful when you get one and never feel like its compulsory.


  • #9
    Cookie_Monster
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,537 ✭✭✭✭Cookie_Monster


    the gov is forcing AIB to plead inability to pay, why can they not say the same, given the shockingly huge deficit they are running...


  • #10
    folan
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,630 ✭✭✭folan


    iregk wrote: »
    Really? If its the same as any job then it means if your performance deserves it you get to keep your job and take home a monthly pay cheque.

    if thats all your performance deserves, then yes, all you get is to keep your job.

    if your performance deserves more, then you deserve more.


  • #11
    folan
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,630 ✭✭✭folan


    bigneacy, i agree.

    However, this is a country and cant fail like a company can.

    it needs to keep the best of the best. Let the rest become resentful theyre not good enough for a bonus, hell, put all staff on 3month performance apprasials and make sure they know theyre not good enough.

    but if we stand any chance of recovery, we need to keep the talented motivated and shift the rest.

    Though your right. I dont particularly think that its the case. in fact im ready to bet against it


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  • #12
    bigneacy
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,222 ✭✭✭bigneacy


    folan wrote: »
    if thats all your performance deserves, then yes, all you get is to keep your job.

    if your performance deserves more, then you deserve more.

    If we're going down that road then a huge magority of public sector workers should be given the sack. Not just for the mess we're in now, for the way they've half arse done their job for the past few decades.

    folan wrote: »
    bigneacy, i agree.

    However, this is a country and cant fail like a company can.

    it needs to keep the best of the best. Let the rest become resentful theyre not good enough for a bonus, hell, put all staff on 3month performance apprasials and make sure they know theyre not good enough.

    but if we stand any chance of recovery, we need to keep the talented motivated and shift the rest.

    Though your right. I dont particularly think that its the case. in fact im ready to bet against it

    I'm sorry but I don't think there is any talent in Public Service. Private sector gets the talent because it pays better.


  • #13
    folan
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,630 ✭✭✭folan


    bigneacy wrote: »
    If we're going down that road then a huge magority of public sector workers should be given the sack. Not just for the mess we're in now, for the way they've half arse done their job for the past few decades.
    agreed.

    Actually, that applies for a number of TDs too, imo, but sure it seems members of the irish voting public and I disagree on that


  • #14
    danbohan
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,914 ✭✭✭danbohan


    bigneacy wrote: »
    If we're going down that road then a huge magority of public sector workers should be given the sack. Not just for the mess we're in now, for the way they've half arse done their job for the past few decades.


    not just a huge majority , all . then some rehired on new realistic contracts and no unions allowed , then this country might start making some progress .


  • #15
    BostonB
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,056 ✭✭✭✭BostonB


    folan wrote: »
    ...it needs to keep the best of the best. ...we need to keep the talented motivated and shift the rest. ...

    1. They are not the best.
    2. We can't afford the best


  • #16
    iregk
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,235 ✭✭✭iregk


    folan wrote: »
    if thats all your performance deserves, then yes, all you get is to keep your job.

    if your performance deserves more, then you deserve more.

    Wrong. Thats were performance reviews come in. If you perform above your target then in your performance review it should be acknowledged that your pay level is under what it should be and an increase is required. This being the case you get a salary increase for the following year and higher performance targets. Pretty simple private sector stuff.


  • #17
    BostonB
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,056 ✭✭✭✭BostonB


    bigneacy wrote: »
    ...I'm sorry but I don't think there is any talent in Public Service. Private sector gets the talent because it pays better.

    Then theres no problem. Unless of course its the exact opposite of that.


  • #18
    starbelgrade
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,739 ✭✭✭✭starbelgrade


    folan wrote: »
    These civil servants are hopefully being rewarded for saving the tax payers thousands.

    Muwahahahahahaaaaaaa!!!!


  • #19
    BostonB
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,056 ✭✭✭✭BostonB


    iregk wrote: »
    Wrong. Thats were performance reviews come in. If you perform above your target then in your performance review it should be acknowledged that your pay level is under what it should be and an increase is required. This being the case you get a salary increase for the following year and higher performance targets. Pretty simple private sector stuff.

    You can only pay what you can afford to pay. If the company is not doing well you can't expect increases and bonuses. You might be doing well just to keep your job, and a lower salary.


  • #20
    bigneacy
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,222 ✭✭✭bigneacy


    danbohan wrote: »
    not just a huge majority , all . then some rehired on new realistic contracts and no unions allowed , then this country might start making some progress .

    Exactly. The unions are as much to blame for our current predicament as anyone else.

    The unions have had a strangle hold on this country for far too long. There's some good aspects to unions - helping the individual is one of them. But they got too big for their boots, thinking they could call the shots, instead of simply negotiating a better deal.

    It was the unions that nearly destroyed Aer Lingus because they wouldn't let them make the necessary pay decreases and lay offs to survive. The unions will do the same to this country if they are allowed to continue.

    Public sector needs to be not just reformed, but demolished and rebuilt from the ground up. It is an incompetent, stubborn and outdated machine that needs to be scrapped.


  • #21
    TheZohanS
    Closed Accounts Posts: 11,582 ✭✭✭✭TheZohanS


    BostonB wrote: »
    You can only pay what you can afford to pay. If the company is not doing well you can't expect increases and bonuses. You might be doing well just to keep your job, and a lower salary.

    +1 million


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  • #22
    BostonB
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,056 ✭✭✭✭BostonB


    folan wrote: »
    ...These civil servants are hopefully being rewarded for saving the tax payers thousands. ...

    I hope thats a typo and you meant billions.


  • #23
    iregk
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,235 ✭✭✭iregk


    BostonB wrote: »
    You can only pay what you can afford to pay. If the company is not doing well you can't expect increases and bonuses. You might be doing well just to keep your job, and a lower salary.

    Absolutely agree. A lot of people in the private sector (myself included) have taken pay freezes or pay reductions for the past couple of years. In the private sector however there are yearly (in most companies) performance reviews and planning meetings/discussions. My wife is in the public sector for the past 12 years and never once had any sort of a review, planning meeting or a single discussion on performance.


  • #24
    folan
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,630 ✭✭✭folan


    BostonB wrote: »
    I hope thats a typo and you meant billions.
    Unfortunatly, Im a realist.


  • #25
    folan
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,630 ✭✭✭folan


    iregk wrote: »
    Wrong. Thats were performance reviews come in. If you perform above your target then in your performance review it should be acknowledged that your pay level is under what it should be and an increase is required. This being the case you get a salary increase for the following year and higher performance targets. Pretty simple private sector stuff.
    in the public sector, they cant afford to give pay increases. a once of payment to acknowledge this is a close second.

    its sometimes refered to as a bonus.


  • #26
    BostonB
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,056 ✭✭✭✭BostonB


    There are people in public and private who never get reviews. Just as there are people public and private who get reviews. A lot of it is down to the quality of the management in a place.

    In my experience, as a sweeping generalization. Usually the management do stupid things, that cause there to be unions, and unions feel they have to make as much noise as possible. In my experience it takes two to tango. If the management keep people happy, they tend not to bother with unions.

    Its the management that give out increases and bonus. So its not a cast of thousands, its down to a few people.


  • #27
    mikedragon32
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,939 ✭✭✭mikedragon32


    Just to put a dampener on the sensationalism, the vast majority of public servants don't get bonuses (performance, Christmas or otherwise) and never will. The bonuses discussed here are for grades of Assistant Principle or higher, so don't go tarring all public servants with the same brush. With regard to the payment of the Exceptional Performance Award mentioned in the article, they tend to get paid out in most instances to individuals who have gone way above and beyond the call of duty on special projects or the like.

    Of course, the pitchforks and torches will probably all come out now anyway.


  • #28
    folan
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,630 ✭✭✭folan


    Look, lets get this straight. Im not in favor of public service bonuses all round. but i have no issue with incentivising some staff who have worked hard and delivered more return than can be expected. And i dont think pay increases all round is going to do it, seeing as theres enough of a wage bill already. A once off payment is as close a second as we can afford.

    Tough how this is meassured with performance reviews is beyond me.


  • #29
    BostonB
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,056 ✭✭✭✭BostonB


    folan wrote: »
    Unfortunatly, Im a realist.

    The reality IS billions.
    folan wrote: »
    in the public sector, they cant afford to give pay increases. a once of payment to acknowledge this is a close second.

    its sometimes refered to as a bonus.

    They can't afford bonuses. Financially or politically.

    Nothing more divisive than random bonuses and increases. Poor management not to have transparency IMO.


  • #30
    ciagr297
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 428 ✭✭ciagr297


    BostonB wrote: »
    Poor management not to have transparency IMO.
    fully agree here. all this talk of bonuses without the full details. it leads everyone to jump ahead and fill in blanks.

    although i have to admit i am a bit annoyed reading the article about HSE trips abroad with their partners when they are refusing people for long term illness cards cause your extremely rare disease does not make the top ten to qualify:mad:
    however, the article also states that they(assume the auditors) did not have access, for some reason, to some documents which may have justified these trips to NYC, Australia etc

    anyway, its a bit two faced of the Dept of Finance to be slashing AIB's bonus payments and paying out bonuses themselves


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  • #31
    BostonB
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,056 ✭✭✭✭BostonB


    folan wrote: »
    Look, lets get this straight. Im not in favor of public service bonuses all round. but i have no issue with incentivising some staff who have worked hard and delivered more return than can be expected. And i dont think pay increases all round is going to do it, seeing as theres enough of a wage bill already. A once off payment is as close a second as we can afford.

    Tough how this is meassured with performance reviews is beyond me.

    If its a once off payment how are you going to incentivize staff in future?


  • #32
    who_ru
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,033 ✭✭✭who_ru


    Ray darcy defending the payment of bonuses to Dept of Finance staff this morning on the radio saying bonuses are necessary to motivate staff.

    this is the same ray darcy who publicly declared that he would leave the country if enda kenny is elected taoiseach.

    He cannot even try to hide his FF loyalties. what a joker that guy is.


  • #33
    BostonB
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,056 ✭✭✭✭BostonB


    who_ru wrote: »
    Ray darcy defending the payment of bonuses to Dept of Finance staff this morning on the radio saying bonuses are necessary to motivate staff.....

    How about not sacking them, or not reducing their salary. Would that not be an incentive?


  • #34
    BostonB
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,056 ✭✭✭✭BostonB


    On the flip side why do they not announce what they did that was so great.

    Would that not be great PR and motivational.


  • #35
    ciagr297
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 428 ✭✭ciagr297


    BostonB wrote: »
    How about not sacking them, or not reducing their salary. Would that not be an incentive?
    honestly, if the public service wants the same pay rates as private sector then the same risks should apply


  • #36
    Cookie_Monster
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,537 ✭✭✭✭Cookie_Monster


    ciagr297 wrote: »
    honestly, if the public service wants the same pay rates as private sector then the same risks should apply

    but they have better rates*, better pensions, better security and less risk. Why would they want the same risks?

    * on average


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  • #37
    BostonB
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,056 ✭✭✭✭BostonB


    I could be wrong I think while theres been pay freezes, recruitment and promotion, overtime, embargo's across the public sector. That actually hasn't been the case everywhere. Some places seemingly immune to any of that. Mind you its hard not to be cynical when you're treated like a mushroom.


  • #38
    goose2005
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,798 ✭✭✭goose2005


    bigneacy wrote: »
    I'm sorry but I don't think there is any talent in Public Service. Private sector gets the talent because it pays better.

    Also, the private sector fires bad workers; the public sector doesn't, so most useless people end up there eventually.


  • #39
    chin_grin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 10,808 ✭✭✭✭chin_grin


    Joe where's my bonus Joe? I've gone to college and knuckled down for four (or five) years studying/partying and general student activity before biting the bullet and growing up and heading out in to the workplace. Which, in hindsight, I should've just left after my Leaving Cert and gone straight to working in some sh!tty shop and then chancing my arm from shop to shop. Sector to sector. And maybe doing some night courses so I could apply for other jobs out of my 'confort zone'.

    Where's my bonus Joe?

    Stop whinging about it FFS!


  • #40
    BostonB
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,056 ✭✭✭✭BostonB


    goose2005 wrote: »
    Also, the private sector fires bad workers; the public sector doesn't, so most useless people end up there eventually.

    The consumer issue forum would suggest otherwise.


  • #41
    BostonB
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,056 ✭✭✭✭BostonB


    chin_grin wrote: »
    ...
    Stop whinging about it FFS!

    Keeping quiet about this kinda stuff has worked out great for the country hasn't it.


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  • #42
    iregk
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,235 ✭✭✭iregk


    who_ru wrote: »
    this is the same ray darcy who publicly declared that he would leave the country if enda kenny is elected taoiseach.

    Ray Darcy said that? Why are we all not voting FG then!!!!


  • #43
    chin_grin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 10,808 ✭✭✭✭chin_grin


    BostonB wrote: »
    Keeping quiet about this kinda stuff has worked out great for the country hasn't it.

    And what have you personally done?

    Ridden up and down the front line screaming "They may take our lives, but they'll never take our FREEDo.......greed for more money and bigger sh!te to put in our houses and more kids who we bring up with the same greed."

    It's this begrudging attitude which I hate Ireland\the Irish for.


  • #44
    BostonB
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,056 ✭✭✭✭BostonB


    The squeaking wheel gets the oil.

    Other than I don't understand any of your comment. Sorry.


  • #45
    chin_grin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 10,808 ✭✭✭✭chin_grin


    BostonB wrote: »
    The squeaking wheel gets the oil.

    Other than I don't understand any of your comment. Sorry.

    No need to apologise. I haven't had any coffee as yet.

    I think it was something to do with greed and that no matter what\how we rabble we're still going to be dealt the same card.

    Unless something drastic happens..........


  • #46
    BostonB
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,056 ✭✭✭✭BostonB


    I think the AIB bonus'es and the U-Turn on that, indicates that some fuss actually does have some impact. Also that don't believe people who say things are impossible to change. Its usually not true.


  • #47
    andyyupyup
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14 ✭andyyupyup


    I work in the public service. I'm sick of all the begrudgary that threads like this bring forward. Can people try to stop generalising and insulting your friends and neighbours who happen to be public servants? Why don't these people start a thread entitled 'Lets generalise and slate Public Servants' because that is exactly what is occurring over and over again when people post generalistic and unnecessary comments and opinions in these threads.

    This article relates to public servants being paid bonuses. Personally I think it is disgraceful that any of these individuals are paid bonuses. The truth is these people are in senior positions (AP and above), where their main workload is policy based and in making executive decisions. I cannot confirm this but I would be shocked if any AP or PO in my office is paid a bonus.

    From my own experience those who I work to, I would consider incompetent, afraid to take ownership for decision and usually take a 'pass the book' approach. Why do you think these 'specialists' are called in to draw up reports make recommendations? It's not that these individuals are unable to formulate policy. The real reason is to have someone to blame if the policy fails and basically to 'pass the book'.

    It must be noted that in general terms public servants do not get any bonuses. No performance bonus, no Christmas bonus, we also pay for our own Christmas party. When I say general terms, I mean the ordinary nurse, garda, lower level civil servant, prison officer, fireman - NO bonuses are paid.

    Personally - I work as an executive officer in the civil service. I joined at the age of 17 following my leaving certificate and have studied and worked my way to this grade. I have 8 staff members working to me and work in an investigations area. I have saved this State a huge amount of money over the past year through my work. However it's my job to save the State money - I don't expect a bonus for doing so.

    People who cry about pay levels etc. I have a wife and 2 children. My take home pay has fallen from 585pw to 495pw over the past 18 months. I expect it to fall another €25pw in January. I am giving this info to show people that we are not all well paid and we at ordinary grades in the public service have taken large cuts.

    The public service is not to blame for this mess our country is in. The Banks and their lending practices (claiming to be influenced by the government). The Dept of Finance with their lack of regulation (claiming to be influence by the government) and of course the Government are the ones to blame, not your nurse, garda, local authority etc.


  • #48
    bigneacy
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,222 ✭✭✭bigneacy


    andyyupyup wrote: »
    I work in the public service. I'm sick of all the begrudgary that threads like this bring forward. Can people try to stop generalising and insulting your friends and neighbours who happen to be public servants? Why don't these people start a thread entitled 'Lets generalise and slate Public Servants' because that is exactly what is occurring over and over again when people post generalistic and unnecessary comments and opinions in these threads.

    This article relates to public servants being paid bonuses. Personally I think it is disgraceful that any of these individuals are paid bonuses. The truth is these people are in senior positions (AP and above), where their main workload is policy based and in making executive decisions. I cannot confirm this but I would be shocked if any AP or PO in my office is paid a bonus.

    From my own experience those who I work to, I would consider incompetent, afraid to take ownership for decision and usually take a 'pass the book' approach. Why do you think these 'specialists' are called in to draw up reports make recommendations? It's not that these individuals are unable to formulate policy. The real reason is to have someone to blame if the policy fails and basically to 'pass the book'.

    It must be noted that in general terms public servants do not get any bonuses. No performance bonus, no Christmas bonus, we also pay for our own Christmas party. When I say general terms, I mean the ordinary nurse, garda, lower level civil servant, prison officer, fireman - NO bonuses are paid.

    Personally - I work as an executive officer in the civil service. I joined at the age of 17 following my leaving certificate and have studied and worked my way to this grade. I have 8 staff members working to me and work in an investigations area. I have saved this State a huge amount of money over the past year through my work. However it's my job to save the State money - I don't expect a bonus for doing so.

    People who cry about pay levels etc. I have a wife and 2 children. My take home pay has fallen from 585pw to 495pw over the past 18 months. I expect it to fall another €25pw in January. I am giving this info to show people that we are not all well paid and we at ordinary grades in the public service have taken large cuts.

    The public service is not to blame for this mess our country is in. The Banks and their lending practices (claiming to be influenced by the government). The Dept of Finance with their lack of regulation (claiming to be influence by the government) and of course the Government are the ones to blame, not your nurse, garda, local authority etc.

    had to be done


  • #49
    andyyupyup
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14 ✭andyyupyup


    bigneacy wrote: »
    had to be done

    Lets generalise and slate Public Servants
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by andyyupyup
    'something about lets all hold hands and talk about how not to blame public servants are'.
    aren't all public servants idiots?

    The topic above was started by 'bigneacy' - a fine example of the problems this country is currently suffering from. Thank you to the Mod who locked it.

    Anyway if anyone would like to view what I said in my post it can be seen above. There is no reference to the quote used by bigneacy and it does not represent anything that I said.


  • #50
    Degsy
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 16,397 ✭✭✭✭Degsy


    bigneacy wrote: »
    If we're going down that road then a huge magority of public sector workers should be given the sack. Not just for the mess we're in now, for the way they've half arse done their job for the past few decades.




    I'm sorry but I don't think there is any talent in Public Service. Private sector gets the talent because it pays better.

    You do realise that what you've just said is borderline libelous?


  • #51
    Coriolanus
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,879 ✭✭✭Coriolanus


    Degsy wrote: »
    You do realise that what you've just said is borderline libelous?

    Given the way libel law works in Ireland you do realise thats just so much hot air?


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