Would you ever...?

L.Jenkins

Just a question for the lgbt community. I wouldn't put this on anywhere near AH. Mods can lock this should they see fit.

And the question, regardless of sexuality and personal preferences, would you date a trans person? Personally, I myself would have no problem dating another trans person.

Anyone else have opinions on the matter?

Annasopra

ItsThatManAgain wrote: »

Just a question for the lgbt community. I wouldn't put this on anywhere near AH. Mods can lock this should they see fit.

And the question, regardless of sexuality and personal preferences, would you date a trans person? Personally, I myself would have no problem dating another trans person.

Anyone else have opinions on the matter?

I'm not quite sure is the answer - I think if they were pre-transition then I probably wouldnt but yes I would consider dating a f2m post op - I don't think I could date a m2f at all because I'm gay but then I know this woman who lives most of the time as male but is pre op m2f and when I meet her in her male persona I find him incredibly attractive

Lorrrrraine

It wouldn't be an issue for me.

Aard

Probably not the PC thing to say around here, but no I wouldn't.

L.Jenkins

It's just personal opinion and preferences. I'm not offended by your straight out no and atleast your honest.

Eebs

ItsThatManAgain wrote: »

Just a question for the lgbt community. I wouldn't put this on anywhere near AH. Mods can lock this should they see fit.

And the question, regardless of sexuality and personal preferences, would you date a trans person? Personally, I myself would have no problem dating another trans person.

Anyone else have opinions on the matter?

I really don't think people can know until their in the situation. I've dated someone who would have said no to this question.

Edit: Because madly all trans people are different and your perception of what a trans person is or isn't can be totally off the mark. Then when you actually meet one you find attractive your perception totally changes. It's like 'would you date someone 10 years older then you'. Most people might say no but then if they actually met someone who was older who they really clicked with, who they really found attractive, they would.

deirdre_dub

Aard wrote: »

Probably not the PC thing to say around here, but no I wouldn't.

Why not?

Rev Hellfire

Don't believe I would.

Links234

Would you date a cisgender person?

Sir Ophiuchus

I've dated an intersex person, I could date a trans person.

The only issue might be that, depending on their transition, etc, they might have body parts that I'm just not innately attracted to.

The fact that they're trans? Definitely not an issue.

Max Power1

I would.

It was actually something I would have liked to experience. (A m2f preferably pre op, not that ive thought much about it )

Aard

deirdre_dub wrote: »

Why not?

Why don't I like tinned tuna? Why don't I like golf? Why don't I like sun holidays?


I don't know, and don't particularly care if I never find out why.

KnifeWRENCH

I'd like to say yes here - I consider myself bisexual and if I'm attracted to someone it doesn't really matter to me if they are male or female.

But I don't think I'd ever be attracted to someone who was transgender tbh. I have nothing against transsexual people, I just would never envisage myself ever being in a relationship with a trans person.

But having said that, I've never actually met anyone who was trans (at least not to my knowledge, anyway) so I suppose I can't say I never would.

baby and crumble

I remember having this debate on here before... I am pretty much exclusively attracted to females, so I would imagine so long as she looked like a girl (as in had all the associated parts to be blunt) then yeah, defintely. I know I've defintely been attracted to TG girls.

BUt I don't think I could be attracted to someone who I met and fell for as female who then transitioned. I think it'd be too weird for me.

Donnaghm

Hmmm, maybe a m2f pre op, but not post op. I just need someone with a penis and no breasts. What can I say, I'm gay.

DubArk

I wouldn’t seek to go out with a transgender and as I’m gay they would have to have a working penis and no breasts…..

Seems to me to be a bit of a tall order. But never say never!

Would it be wrong for me to say I think it would be easier for a Straight guy or Lesbian to go out with a M2F!!

baby and crumble

DubArk wrote:

I wouldn’t seek to go out with a transgender and as I’m gay they would have to have a working penis and no breasts…..

Seems to me to be a bit of a tall order. But never say never!

Would it be wrong for me to say I think it would be easier for a Straight guy or Lesbian to go out with a M2F!!

Don't forget there are female to male tg too. They'd have all the bits, post-op.

I do think that sometimes, there is a hierarchy apparent in the lgbt community.

In general, in media coverage, etc gay men > lesbians, everyone > bisexuals (sigh) and m2f > f2m. When people talk about gay people, they assume gay man. When people talk about transgender issues, they assume male to female. Why is that? (ok, I realise thats a bit off topic!)

L1011

zoegh wrote: »

Don't forget there are female to male tg too. They'd have all the bits, post-op.

Its not going to be quite working, or going on what I've seen in medical journals, even vaguely convincing afterwards.

LegacyUser

I'm bisexual and I have to say I wouldnt. It would be a complete turn off. I wish it weren't but it's just not for me

Eebs

Can we not have a referendum on trans peoples genitals here please? It's not the place for it. Or would you like to discuss your cock size, shape and functionality with the class?

deirdre_dub

Aard wrote: »

deirdre_dub wrote:

Why not?

Why don't I like tinned tuna? Why don't I like golf? Why don't I like sun holidays?

But if you like men (women), why don't you like transmen (transwomen)?

deirdre_dub

Rev Hellfire wrote: »

Don't believe I would.

Same question as I asked previously - why not?

rainbow kirby

Eebs wrote: »

Can we not have a referendum on trans peoples genitals here please? It's not the place for it. Or would you like to discuss your cock size, shape and functionality with the class?

Agreed. Keep the thread to the topic at hand - which is the general question about whether you would date a trans person.

Aard

deirdre_dub wrote: »

But if you like men (women), why don't you like transmen (transwomen)?

Why should I?

baby and crumble

To be fair, sexual attraction, for most people, does have something to do with genitals. If it didn't there would be no such thing as gay or straight anyway. I like girls. I don't want sex with, and therefore never would I date, someone with a penis. I'm not on here saying I'd only like TG girls who had massive boobs, or a small bum. i would imagine for anyone who likes men, a fully functional penis is important. Not the be-all and end all, obviously, but there is some need, if we're talking about this subject, to tell it like it is.

I genuinely don't mean to offend by saying that, and I agree, personal chat about penii (is that the plural ) or breasts don't have a place here. But if people feel that needing to have full sex with a person to be able to date/fall in love/ etc is crucial, and that they don't believe it would be possible for them with a particular person, I don't see what the issue is. I'm sorry if that comes across as harsh.

Annasopra

Eebs suggested and Rainbow kirby as mod agreed that getting into discussion about trans genitalia is not really appropriate, - I'll lock the discussion if people keep going on about it

hare05

Would I date a transperson? Depends on the person. Same applies to every 'category' of people. You can have sex with anyone, the question is whether you can stand seeing them daily

I guess the genital issue doesn't affect me as I simply don't want to use my own 'originals'.

On that note... been getting texts from this really nice gay guy recently and they've been getting a bit steamy... I like him but he doesn't know I'm trans, though from what I can tell he's a top... general confusion over what to do lol. Still in boy mode here. Come out to him? Go out and hope he doesn't have plans for my front bits? Being trans is confusing...

Rev Hellfire

deirdre_dub wrote: »

Same question as I asked previously - why not?

Simply because its not for me.

Nevyn

Never say never but I would currently have to say no.
I am bisexual not pansexual.

hare05

ItsThatManAgain wrote: »

Just a question for the lgbt community. I wouldn't put this on anywhere near AH. Mods can lock this should they see fit.

And the question, regardless of sexuality and personal preferences, would you date a trans person? Personally, I myself would have no problem dating another trans person.

Anyone else have opinions on the matter?

<rant>

The problem here is this isn't a very good question. It's like asking someone if they would date a person who was black, asian, muslim, <insert stereotype here>.

The answer would be based on the stereotype, and not the individual. What you end up with is the above, a slew of seemingly racist remarks with a sprinkle of PC replies, transpeople lose confidence in themselves, the issue of whether transition makes you equal to the target sex (See bisexual vs pansexual above)...

And no one seems to figure out how pointless the discussion is. There are many people I won't date, I don't call them transpeople / gay / lesbian / <other stereotype>. I call them assholes. That's why I won't consider them. End of story.

</rant>

Now can we please get some more inspirational pics in the transition pics thread? I feel like being happy today.

deirdre_dub

Aard wrote: »

deirdre_dub wrote:

But if you like men (women), why don't you like transmen (transwomen)?

Why should I?

Why should you like men (or women)? I dunno - because you are a sexual being, perhaps?

What I don't get is if you do like men (or women), which I have to admit is an assumption of mine (you could be asexual), then why do you automatically exclude transmen (and transwomen)? Transmen (and transwomen) are basically just men (and women) with a genetic defect.

deirdre_dub

Rev Hellfire wrote: »

deirdre_dub wrote:

Why not?

Simply because its not for me.

What, exactly, isn't for you? Same question as above - if you have an interest in men (or women), why do you automatically exclude transmen (or transwomen) - after all, we are men (and women).

Links234

I think hare is spot on there, it's the kind of question you know is just asking for hurt feelings. I would like to assume the best in people, assume that while they mightn't actively look for a relationship with a trans person, they wouldn't rule it out if they met someone they really clicked with and were attracted to. So I just wouldn't ask this question, because some of the answers will most certainly be disheartening and insulting to trans people's genders.

And bisexual people saying they wouldn't? I would've assumed out of anyone, bisexuals wouldn't have a problem. but that's practically saying "I like men and women, and you're neither" which is just... wow.

Yeah, I wouldn't have asked this question, it's just asking for hurt feelings.

Cybele

The question in my opinion was phrased wrong?
Would you date a transgender person? When most people hear this they unfortunately think of a man in a dress or some other form of stereotypical image.

Would you continue to be with your girlfriend if she told you she was once trans? Remember you were both in love for several months, slept together etc and you saw her as ‘The One’. The only reason she came out to you was because the relationship had become very serious and she has a very good idea you will understand.

With the amount of ridiculous prejudice held by so many people out there I doubt personally that I could ever come out to a future partner unless I knew they would understand and that really hurts as it was such a big part of my life.

So much hatred, prejudice and ignorance from people on this form that simply don't understand and that is exactly why people like me move far away and never tell.

Boston

ItsThatManAgain wrote: »

Just a question for the lgbt community. I wouldn't put this on anywhere near AH. Mods can lock this should they see fit.

And the question, regardless of sexuality and personal preferences, would you date a trans person? Personally, I myself would have no problem dating another trans person.

Anyone else have opinions on the matter?

No.

Links234 wrote: »

Would you date a cisgender person?

Yes.

Boston

Cybele wrote: »

The question in my opinion was phrased wrong?
Would you date a transgender person? When most people hear this they unfortunately think of a man in a dress or some other form of stereotypical image.

Would you continue to be with your girlfriend if she told you she was once trans? Remember you were both in love for several months, slept together etc and you saw her as ‘The One’. The only reason she came out to you was because the relationship had become very serious and she has a very good idea you will understand.

With the amount of ridiculous prejudice held by so many people out there I doubt personally that I could ever come out to a future partner unless I knew they would understand and that really hurts as it was such a big part of my life.

So much hatred, prejudice and ignorance from people on this form that simply don't understand and that is exactly why people like me move far away and never tell.

Must be a pretty poor form of love if someone can lie to your face for months on end and finally only admit the truth when he/she felt you'd give the right response rather than out of respect. Is this form of love pervasive amoung transgendered people? One would hope not.

Rev Hellfire

deirdre_dub wrote: »

What, exactly, isn't for you? Same question as above - if you have an interest in men (or women), why do you automatically exclude transmen (or transwomen) - after all, we are men (and women).

I'm not sure why you're probing the issue since I suspect you know the answer.
But lets get it into the open, I'd don't have an interest in m2f because I don't see them equivalent to biological women. That's just me though.

Eebs

Boston wrote: »

Must be a pretty poor form of love if someone can lie to your face for months on end and finally only admit the truth when he/she felt you'd give the right response rather than out of respect. Is this form of love pervasive amoung transgendered people? One would hope not.

It's not lieing. It's not a lie not to disclose your trans status if it's not an issue. You aren't lieing about who you are, especially if you're TS and transitioned. Firstly if someone is trans they're already being truthful about who they are when they meet you. It's none of anyones business to disclose otherwise if they don't want to, even if you're ****ing someone if it's not an issue. Personally, I would eventually always disclose to my partner, because I'd want to share that with them but SHOULD you have to and WHEN is none of anyone elses business. Certainly not random people and forum board, self included. It's personal.

Because trans women are women and trans men are men. Not accepting that is transphobic simply because you decide trans people aren't authentic and aren't real. At the end of the day ALL transphobia comes down to that or the world would treat trans people with the same respect and decency as anyone else.

That majority of trans people disclose because they can. Which is great but I'm not going to demand it out of everyone.


I'm not demanding people be attracted to me, I am demanding a level of respect for discussing a sub set of peoples genitals. It's NOT ok. It's not ok to say gay people have 'weird and deviant' sexual practices because they're DIFFERENT to straight peoples here. It's not ok to say trans peoples genitals are 'not adequate' or 'not functioning' because they're DIFFERENT. Difference is not bad. You don't have to be attracted to it, that's your problem, but you don't get to decide they're a negative.


This thread was a really bad idea ITMA, I'm sure your intentions were pure but it's just the shan to meet the fit.

Eebs

Rev Hellfire wrote: »

That's just me though.

I wish that were true. You're far from the minority sadly.

Boston

Eebs wrote: »

It's not lieing. It's not a lie not to disclose your trans status if it's not an issue.

If it's not an issue why not be upfront about it. If you're in a relationship with someone you owe it to that person to be truthful and a lie by omission is still a lie.

Because trans women are women and trans men are men. Not accepting that is transphobic simply because you decide trans people aren't authentic and aren't real. At the end of the day ALL transphobia comes down to that or the world would treat trans people with the same respect and decency as anyone else.

Biologically speaking your statement is inaccurate.

deirdre_dub

Boston wrote:

Biologically speaking your statement is inaccurate.

If the trans person is post-op and on hormones etc, then biologically the statement is accurate. The only way it is inaccurate is genetically.

Personally I do not have as little faith in people so as to believe that there is anyone who falls in love with the presence or absence of the Y chromosome.

Moderators - this thread is rapidly falling into a transphobic rant. Please lock it.

Boston

Feel free to use the report post function for any posts you feel are transphobic. I fail to see anything transphobic.

You are incorrect in your assertion that post op transgendered are biologically identical to their non transgendered counter parts. There are marked differences in the biology of a transgendered post op person. Wishing for there to be no difference, doesn't negate medical fact. I cannot believe for a second any surgeon specialising in gender alteration would claim 100% biological conversion.

Aard

deirdre_dub wrote: »

Why should you like men (or women)? I dunno - because you are a sexual being, perhaps?

What I don't get is if you do like men (or women), which I have to admit is an assumption of mine (you could be asexual), then why do you automatically exclude transmen (and transwomen)? Transmen (and transwomen) are basically just men (and women) with a genetic defect.

Why can't you just accept that I'm not interested in transmen? Why does there need to be any justification. It sounds like the problem here is yours, not mine.

Links234

Boston wrote: »

Biologically speaking your statement is inaccurate.

Biologically speaking transgender people ARE the gender they identify as.

• Transsexual gene link identified
• Male-to-Female Transsexuals Have Female Neuron Numbers in a Limbic Nucleus
• Male-to-Female Transsexuals Show Sex-Atypical Hypothalamus Activation When Smelling Odorous Steroids
• Regional Grey Matter Variation in Male-to-Female Transsexuality
• A sex difference in the hypothalamic uncinate nucleus: relationship to gender identity.
• White matter microstructure in female to male transsexuals before cross-sex hormonal treatment. A diffusion tensor imaging study.
• A Sex Difference in the Human Brain and its Relation to Transsexuality
• Gender Identity and phantom genitalia
• Typical female 2nd–4th finger length (2D:4D) ratios in male-to-female transsexuals—possible implications for prenatal androgen exposure

this thread has become little more than an attack on the validity of trans people's genders.

Chuchoter

I might get killed for this but I'm just going to put it out there.

Me myself, I wouldn't think twice about going out with someone who was trans if I liked them. I definitely wouldn't dump someone over it.

What is annoying me, not only about this trans thread but about a lot of the trans threads is that they are very, very aggressive. You say anything that isn't 100% PC and people jump down your throat about it, even if its just an honest question. I'm not defending some of the really offensive and transphobic stuff that has been said here but I think what people have to realize is you can't make someone like you. A lot of people wouldn't like me from some arbitrary reason like I'm too short or whatever. You can't control what other people like or what you yourself like, and to be honest I kind of think people on this forum should know this better than anyone. This whole thread is just asking for trouble.

Freiheit

Horribly ill-conceived question. Formulated from a position of doubt and an implicit assumption that an identity is a problem.

Positive people are sought after company regardless of who or what they are.

Links234

oh, and saying that trans people are NOT the gender they identify as is the basis for pretty much all transphobia

it's the justification for excluding trans people from public toilets, for excluding trans people from sports, it's the justification for denial of human rights. and you know, a transgender woman is physically the same as a cisgender woman, she won't be any stronger, she'll have the same musculature and bone density, but trans women often get savagely beaten and the justification is, they're really blokes, right? and it's ok to hit a bloke, isn't it? :rolleyes:

the very idea that a transgender person is not the gender they identify as is not only transphobic, it is endangering to them.

Rev Hellfire

Links234 wrote: »

the very idea that a transgender person is not the gender they identify as is not only transphobic, it is endangering to them.

I respectfully disagree, just because someone does not agree with your particular view point does not make them transphobic.

I'd imagine most of those who replied negatively to the question put forward would not actively seek to limit or restrict either the actions or rights of the transgendered.

Links234

crayolastereo wrote: »

I might get killed for this but I'm just going to put it out there.

Me myself, I wouldn't think twice about going out with someone who was trans if I liked them. I definitely wouldn't dump someone over it.

What is annoying me, not only about this trans thread but about a lot of the trans threads is that they are very, very aggressive. You say anything that isn't 100% PC and people jump down your throat about it, even if its just an honest question. I'm not defending some of the really offensive and transphobic stuff that has been said here but I think what people have to realize is you can't make someone like you. A lot of people wouldn't like me from some arbitrary reason like I'm too short or whatever. You can't control what other people like or what you yourself like, and to be honest I kind of think people on this forum should know this better than anyone. This whole thread is just asking for trouble.

I agree and disagree with you, like I said that the question is just asking for hurt feelings, and yeah, you really can't expect everyone is gonna be ok with or accepting of transgender people. And I'd disagree with Deirde Dub questioning why people they wouldn't want to date someone trans, it's a question that's gonna end up with hurt feelings.

but I don't really agree that it's being "PC" to have a little respect and not invalidate trans people's gender, question their identities, and make extremely crass judgments about their genitals. that's absolutely not acceptable for anyone. but in discussion about trans people, it sometimes seems common courtesy or respect is abandoned.

Chuchoter

Links234 wrote: »

I agree and disagree with you, like I said that the question is just asking for hurt feelings, and yeah, you really can't expect everyone is gonna be ok with or accepting of transgender people. And I'd disagree with Deirde Dub questioning why people they wouldn't want to date someone trans, it's a question that's gonna end up with hurt feelings.

but I don't really agree that it's being "PC" to have a little respect and not invalidate trans people's gender, question their identities, and make extremely crass judgments about their genitals. that's absolutely not acceptable for anyone. but in discussion about trans people, it sometimes seems common courtesy or respect is abandoned.

I completely agree with you, but over in the trans questions thread, you can ask a question and if you don't phrase it the right way you get shouted at.

Eebs

crayolastereo wrote: »

I might get killed for this but I'm just going to put it out there.

Me myself, I wouldn't think twice about going out with someone who was trans if I liked them. I definitely wouldn't dump someone over it.

What is annoying me, not only about this trans thread but about a lot of the trans threads is that they are very, very aggressive. You say anything that isn't 100% PC and people jump down your throat about it, even if its just an honest question. I'm not defending some of the really offensive and transphobic stuff that has been said here but I think what people have to realize is you can't make someone like you. A lot of people wouldn't like me from some arbitrary reason like I'm too short or whatever. You can't control what other people like or what you yourself like, and to be honest I kind of think people on this forum should know this better than anyone. This whole thread is just asking for trouble.

It's not about controlling what other people like. I think I was clear on that in the other post.
And I'm not going to apologise if I'm angry. I'm also not going to ignore what I feel is wrong. I don't feel it's right to decide to blame the people who are speaking out against viewpoints that are offensive then the ones deciding to voice them instead. I shouldn't have to be nice about peoples opinions that try to take transpeople down a peg or two. Why should I be nice?

Constantly having to affirm your identity can make you angry. To me this boils down to respect. We wouldn't be going into details about groups of cisgender peoples genitals, we wouldn't then be deciding we'd only sleep with x group because they've big penises. It's totally absurd when taken out of this setting so why is it happening?

Boston, there is no biological evidence about what makes a man a man and what makes a woman a woman. I believe, based on personal and medical opinion transmen are men and transwomen are women.

Chromosmally many people aren't 'men' or 'women' but they are.
Genitally many people have different shapes and sizes which don't make them 'men' or 'women' yet they are.

There is nothing that defines your gender apart from what you know in your head. If you don't believe trans people are really the gender they say they are then you are transphobic. You don't believe trans people are authentic. That's it. You don't have to believe they have y chromosomes or x, that they have genital surgery or not. You just have to accept them as men and women, not 'male' and 'female'. And if you don't want to accept trans people as men and women but as 'half' or whatever then yes, you are transphobic. Just own it at least.