RTE from Limavady

Inishowen

When RTE becomes available on Freeview from Limavady will it be broadcast in MPEG2 or MPEG4?

lawhec

Inishowen wrote: »

When RTE becomes available on Freeview from Limavady will it be broadcast in MPEG2 or MPEG4?

Source for this?

Inishowen

lawhec wrote: »

Source for this?

Reading todays Irish News it looks like RTE may become available before the end of next year. Otherwise I will have to down the Soarsat route. Currently getting my RTE's from Malin.

watty

We think that might be very old news, and highly speculative.

Saorsat, if it works, will give you all the Irish services. If it works, then RTE and TG4 are unlikely to pay to be carried on UK N.I. Freeview, assuming space even available.

If it does happen, which seems unlikely, then it will be SD MPEG2. Only HD uses MPEG4 in N.I., which won't be till 2012/2013.

mrdtv2010

Divis will be switched over in November 2012. Both Brougher and Limavady are going to be switched over before the Olympics.The Divis transmitters will be installed next year now that the mast is up. This will be announced officially quite soon. Incidentally the full list of post-DSO NI DTT frequencies is now on the DUK web site (trade view) together with technical events...

STB

watty wrote: »

We think that might be very old news, and highly speculative.

Maybe.

If NI was a runner for Freeview carrying of the stations you could speculate think that Limavady and Divis might be the TX sites.

Speculatively speaking!

watty

mrdtv2010 wrote: »

Divis will be switched over in November 2012. Both Brougher and Limavady are going to be switched over before the Olympics.The Divis transmitters will be installed next year now that the mast is up. This will be announced officially quite soon. Incidentally the full list of post-DSO NI DTT frequencies is now on the DUK web site (trade view) together with technical events...

mad website. Exact linky?

Sam the Aerialman

Inishowen wrote: »

When RTE becomes available on Freeview from Limavady will it be broadcast in MPEG2 or MPEG4?

Let's get the fact straight here. I have had many talks with members of Digital UK and the Arqiva team at Divis. The notion that RTE will be broadcast from the main NI sites is a nonsense, the 7th multiplex were some sites in mainland UK got eight or in the case of Caldbeck nine. The interleaved spectrum that's available in Northern Ireland is coming with handcuffs attached for various reasons of which were already discussed on this forum. This space is available for local operators to access the Freeview platform, interleaved channel 51 at Limavady would be co-channel Cairn Hill and may be used at Londonderry so serious limitations there. Brougher and Divis will have to toss for who gets channel 30 because it's the only available in band frequency left pushing Divis right up the band. With that said TG4 are being offered space on the ARQB mux so it will continue. Then we move on the interesting bit who is going to pay for it because RTENL certainly won't, significant overspill is predicted along with the removal of multipath so RTE will enjoy greater coverage in NI with out shelling out for mux capacity in the UK.

Sam the Aerialman

mrdtv2010 wrote: »

Divis will be switched over in November 2012. Both Brougher and Limavady are going to be switched over before the Olympics.The Divis transmitters will be installed next year now that the mast is up. This will be announced officially quite soon. Incidentally the full list of post-DSO NI DTT frequencies is now on the DUK web site (trade view) together with technical events...

Brougher switchover is April 2012.
Limavady switchover is September 2012.
Divis switchover and close of DSO program is November 2012.

Sam Russell

There has been a change of government in the UK since the MOU was signed, and that government has introduced swingeing cuts on public expenditure. The Irish government is skint.

No money for any of this. It will not happen.

Sam the Aerialman

mrdtv2010 wrote: »

The Divis transmitters will be installed next year now that the mast is up.

Granted the mast is up but there is a hell of a lot of work to go through still, three new arrays, feeder runs, trunking, awl's, new DAB array, decamp the band 2 V-120 arrays (both tiers) to allow the older mast to be strengthened and worked on cold not to mention building of the new combiner room, a switch room, ice protection and a harsh winter is expected.

Sam the Aerialman

watty wrote: »

mad website. Exact linky?

http://www.digitaluk.co.uk/postcodechecker/main/traderegion/utv_region/main/NA/NA

You can export the results to an excel spreadsheet which is handier to read through.

Peter Henderson

Inishowen wrote: »

Reading todays Irish News it looks like RTE may become available before the end of next year. Otherwise I will have to down the Soarsat route. Currently getting my RTE's from Malin.

Quite correct Inishowen, there is an article in today's Irish news stating just that. Unfortunately it isn't available to read unless you subscribe. Did they give any technical details ?

The notion that RTE will be broadcast from the main NI sites is a nonsense

Wonder if this is new info. Sam ? Do your contacts at arqive know anything about the source of this story ? Would be nice if it were true.

Divis switchover and close of DSO program is November 2012.

Over at UKFree they are still stating that DSO for Divis wont happen until March 31st 2013 which still seems an awfully long way off. Nov. 2012 isn't just as bad.

Here's a link to the Irish News' website were you can see the article is front page news:

http://www.irishnews.com/

That coverage map doesn't look as if it includes Divis though.

lgs 4

west of scotland ,mull of kintyre ,stranraer, will get a look in if rte are on freeview northern ireland

Sam the Aerialman

So in all seriousness how would it work in theory if it could work?

2 options i could see would for RTE to directly feed over fibre through Emley Moor into the BBC Distribution, feed the same return to Divis as a SIPSI. Then line feed Brougher and Limavady via Divis as the insertion point with all telemetry routed to Emley Moor.

Then put RTE1 for example on a spare LCN and put onto a Freeview channel we've seen it done with certain gambling channels.

Or feed Divis directly via Emley Moor 4 raw feeds then use the same principal as Divis as the SIPSI. Use a 6 channel multiplex which is an additional UHF channel per station. That's three extra channels in retained spectrum minimum. Where's that coming from and what part of the band?

I can't see it working - Any idea's?

SRB

I really can't see this being anything more than a slow news day story.

watty

If Saorsat works on a reasonable dish in Ballycastle come next May, not only with there be no RTE on Freeview (I always thought more than TG4 was unlikely), but like as not we won't even see 52 DTT sites here. Maybe 45 to 49.

Communities in Ireland with no DTT coverage will have to buy their own DTT and feed it from Saorsat if they want a DTT mast (which is rather simpler and cheaper than feeding a Freeview DTT site entirely from Satellite, as Saorsat can be 2x virtual Transponders with identical copy of the MPEG2-TS as feed terrestrially to DTT sites, hence the interest RTE NL have in it as DTT site backup very cheap).

Saorsat is no good to feed any N.I. DTT site. Wrong content in the MPEG2-TS. Also the Saorsat MPEG2-TS can't directly feed an entire DVB-T modulator as in "South".

They certainly would be mad to announce anything before April.

The Cush

Peter Henderson wrote: »

Quite correct Inishowen, there is an article in today's Irish news stating just that. Unfortunately it isn't available to read unless you subscribe. Did they give any technical details ?

lawhec uploaded images of the relevant pages earlier - http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=69555557#post69555557

Peter Henderson

ITV preview on channel 35 ( it had been carrying a screen saver with ITV1+1 coming soon on it) has now vanished from Freeview on Divis. Wonder if this has anything to do with the Irish News story ?

Maybe Sam can tell us what's going on ?

Peter Henderson

I can't see it working - Any idea's?

Aren't RTE, TG4, and TV3 all carried on Sky Sam with Northern viewers having limited versions of RTE's 1 and 2 along with TG4 (limited due to rights issues i.e. some programmes are blocked) ?

Since it's only going to be RTE's 1 and 2 along with TG4 that are going to be on Freeview. In any case, why can't they use the same method that they currently use for TG4 analogue transmissions from Divis ?

STB

The Cush wrote: »

lawhec uploaded images of the relevant pages earlier - http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=69555557#post69555557

And the coverage map is interesting.....

Peter Henderson wrote: »

That coverage map doesn't look as if it includes Divis though.

Thats because they are coverage maps for Irish tx sites south of the border......the areas in red, what do you think they are.

watty

That map seems to be from one of the intermediate stages of
appendix7.3_coverageplotsmapsA3.pdf
page 4
The red bits seem to be the Extra coverage of page 5 (next stage) It's identical. But I don't actually have a two colour version like that.

I downloaded it from http://www.bci.ie/DTT/boxer/appendix7.3_coverageplotsmapsA3.pdf

( Link here http://www.techtir.ie/sites/default/files/appendix7.3_coverageplotsmapsA3.pdf if above link is "broken"
via http://www.techtir.ie/tv-radio/Irish-DTT-Sites )


In Google search type

http://www.bci.ie/DTT pdf
(note space)
Also try Google with
http://www.bci.ie/DTT/boxer pdf
http://www.bci.ie/DTT/onevision pdf

Actually...
HERE is the nice list on BAI of loads of bits...
http://www.bci.ie/DTT/licensing.html

The extract in newspaper article is
"map_hidef_stageincrease_q1_2011.jpg"

Link
http://www.bci.ie/DTT/easy_tv/map_hidef_stageincrease_q1_2011.jpg

Sam the Aerialman

Peter Henderson wrote: »

Since it's only going to be RTE's 1 and 2 along with TG4 that are going to be on Freeview. In any case, why can't they use the same method that they currently use for TG4 analogue transmissions from Divis ?

What exactly would that be an off air feed from Black Mountain and line fed into Divis. TG4 on Divis currently is at best a sticking plaster of a job to put out a low power signal on an analogue Tx. This is a DTT network we're talking about here that is going to need a GPS reference clock and telemetry. Watty is absolutely right you cannot just take 4 off air feeds or use saorsat to downlink 4 program feeds, these will have to be inserted in the Beeb distribution and monitored via Emley Moor. It's the wrong content to use for re-transmission which is why Arqiva use encrypted space on a Eutelsat bird to downlink the program feeds into site - This is how Mux1 is derived.

This is typical bloody politicians who wave their hands and believe spectrum analysts will head off and make miracles happen. The key piece of that article is the statement "It will happen by the end of next year" it simply won't or can't. By the way just because the ITV preview channel leaves or moves it's LCN doesn't mean RTE is coming.

watty

It's very complicated combining DTT stuff.

The source has to be exactly right bitrate and type even to re-mux

You seriously don't want to re-encode because
* that is about €15K a channel per location.
* Inserts additional delay
* Reduces quality


Also to do "Statistical Multiplexing" you need all uncompressed (SDI probably) into the encoders/Multiplexer and encode all channels simultaneously (at one central location usually). Then that goes (via ASI interface likely) to distribuition as MPEG2-TS per Multiplexor (on Satellite, fibre or Microwave, DTT rebroadcast is avoided, but is possible). The DTT site then only needs DTT modulator and PA per Multiplex.

It's only simple to do Irish TV in N.I. via freeview if it had its own dedicated Mux. There isn't a spare one.

The people paying the bills and the Politicans will take the easy solution if Saorsat works. Otherwise there will be a lot of feet shuffling, excuses and wringing of hands.

Sam the Aerialman

watty wrote: »

It's very complicated combining DTT stuff.

The source has to be exactly right bitrate and type even to re-mux

You seriously don't want to re-encode because
* that is about €15K a channel per location.
* Inserts additional delay
* Reduces quality


Also to do "Statistical Multiplexing" you need all uncompressed (SDI probably) into the encoders/Multiplexer and encode all channels simultaneously (at one central location usually). Then that goes (via ASI interface likely) to distribuition as MPEG2-TS per Multiplexor (on Satellite, fibre or Microwave, DTT rebroadcast is avoided, but is possible). The DTT site then only needs DTT modulator and PA per Multiplex.

It's only simple to do Irish TV in N.I. via freeview if it had its own dedicated Mux. There isn't a spare one.

The people paying the bills and the Politicans will take the easy solution if Saorsat works. Otherwise there will be a lot of feet shuffling, excuses and wringing of hands.

You also forgot the £68K service charge per multiplex per annum plus admin fees according to Arqiva's reference documents! Someone will have to spread the wealth.

John Dough

SRB wrote: »

I really can't see this being anything more than a slow news day story.

100% correct there will be NO link up with Freeview all this talk is bulls***.:D

Sam the Aerialman

Inishowen wrote: »

When RTE becomes available on Freeview from Limavady will it be broadcast in MPEG2 or MPEG4?

To answer the original question Limavady won't even be part of the agreement.

No Freeview From Limavady

Seen Web link on Highland Radio News Motion
http://www.highlandradio.com/2012/09/26/inishowen-saorview-signal-problems-aired-in-the-dail/

Same issue applies here in Speenogue Burt At moment with Digital Signal Coming from Limavady Transmitter cannot get Signal at all.

Have sent emails to [email]northernireland@digitaluk.co.ukrussell.keene@digitaluk.co.uk[/email]

I have been in contact with all Media Organisations UTV.BBC,RTE about this same issue as this is the broadcasters area and have a vested interested that we get a good picture after digital switchover from both sides of the border under the Good Friday Agreement.

Would you be able to find out who runs and operates TV mast at Limvady Co. Derry and weathers assurances can be got that residents who live in Border Areas I.E. Burt Co.Donegal who have always got a picture from this tranmitter will still remain get picture from Limvady after switchover.

dowtchaboy

No Freeview From Limavady wrote: »

Seen Web link on Highland Radio News Motion
http://www.highlandradio.com/2012/09/26/inishowen-saorview-signal-problems-aired-in-the-dail/

Same issue applies here in Speenogue Burt At moment with Digital Signal Coming from Limavady Transmitter cannot get Signal at all.

Have sent emails to [email]northernireland@digitaluk.co.ukrussell.keene@digitaluk.co.uk[/email]

I have been in contact with all Media Organisations UTV.BBC,RTE about this same issue as this is the broadcasters area and .....

Why are you posting this on multiple threads? And on threads which are 2 years old? This is at least the third place you have posted this!