Dukes: €35bn fund for banks may not be enough

martyoo

“I reckon €35bn is not going to be enough," the former finance minister said.

“The number that’s there at the moment is based on what we can expect of the commercial property market.”

He added: “I don’t think any assessment has been made of the possible impact of mortgage defaults.”

Read more: http://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/dukes-35bn-fund-for-banks-may-not-be-enough-485488.html#ixzz17z5WZGmE

Worrying article about comments Alan Dukes made regarding the bailout. Did they honestly not consider the residential mortage market when calculating what they might need?

Surely there is going to be a huge number of mortgage defaults in the next few years.

femur61

God we are fcuked. I'd really be on aplane if I didn't have kids. Off to bank to see about setting up account in NI.

robbyvibes

Well, as you know, we need a banking system run by insolvent banks.

Without these bankrupt banks, Ireland as a society would just be consumed by the atlantic ocean at the command of the IMF.

So, the best solution without having to consider others is to continue borrowing to keep insolvent banks running until we know it's not working.

It's a complex situation of course and it should not be the decision of irish people what happens to their money.

We need to remain on track, atleast until it's too late.

ednwireland

http://budget.irishexaminer.com/analysis/dukes-35bn-bailout-is-not-enough-139248.html

The IMF team believed an initial €10bn capital injection into banks would rebuild international market confidence and allow them to begin borrowing on the bond markets. But speaking to the International Herald Tribune at the weekend, Mr Dukes said: “I reckon €35 billion is not going to be enough.”

The former finance minister said: “The number that’s there at the moment is based on what we can expect of the commercial property market.”

He added: “I don’t think any assessment has been made of the possible impact of mortgage defaults.”

how is dukes still in a job ? surely someone should be put in there to clear all the sh1t out once and for all. this drip feed is a nightmare it needs to be sorted and once, not 2 years of this

mcwilliams said that after the swedish bank guarantee, the boards of the banks were replaced and the dodgy banks wound up in 2 months ! our glorious gov has messed about for 2 + years

Dempo1

martyoo wrote: »

Worrying article about comments Alan Dukes made regarding the bailout. Did they honestly not consider the residential mortgage market when calculating what they might need?

Surely there is going to be a huge number of mortgage defaults in the next few years.

Its an extraordinary admission from Dukes and pretty scary. So much for the governments Mantra about Anglo's bailout being addressed once and for all. I get a sense 2011 is going to be far worse and this notwithstanding other Irish banks borrowed €16 from the ECB in the past few months whilst continuing to be bailed out by US!

Its a frightful mess and getting worse which begs the question, will the Budget make a squat bit of difference to this mess we are in.

As for Mortgage defaults, watch this space, the situation is going to implode, as it is 1,000's are in arrears as it is. Nothing on offer currently is going to address this crisis. It is suggested that the new banking code of practice will allow mortgage holders in distress, the option of paying 2/3's of their mortgage interest for a 5 year period helping them avoid repossessions, i just wonder how many distressed mortgage holders will be able to comply with wage cuts, Unemployment at record levels and despite the crap coming out of FF about the cost of living having reduced, everything from food, fuel and utilities has risen, some as a direct result f this absurd Budget!

fliball123

Dempo1 wrote: »

Its an extraordinary admission from Dukes and pretty scary. So much for the governments Mantra about Anglo's bailout being addressed once and for all. I get a sense 2011 is going to be far worse and this notwithstanding other Irish banks borrowed €16 from the ECB in the past few months whilst continuing to be bailed out by US!

Its a frightful mess and getting worse which begs the question, will the Budget make a squat bit of difference to this mess we are in.

As for Mortgage defaults, watch this space, the situation is going to implode, as it is 1,000's are in arrears as it is. Nothing on offer currently is going to address this crisis. It is suggested that the new banking code of practice will allow mortgage holders in distress, the option of paying 2/3's of their mortgage interest for a 5 year period helping them avoid repossessions, i just wonder how many distressed mortgage holders will be able to comply with wage cuts, Unemployment at record levels and despite the crap coming out of FF about the cost of living having reduced, everything from food, fuel and utilities has risen, some as a direct result f this absurd Budget!

Surely he is wrong...I mean how can they be paying out millions to bankers in bonuses

Ireland is in trouble for 10 years economic stagnation with little net job creation, large taxes and lower services leading to a much lower standard of living. Unless Irish policics changes our economics wont. Politics have made these mistakes to get us here - remember all the tax breaks for building and investment properties? Then the guarantee and the billions literally burned in recapitalisations.

Make no mistake - the guarantee has been invoked many many times - everytime we recapitalise its the guarantee being invoked.

We need to realise politically that we default is the better option. Alot of people wont want to lose their savings so thats the trade off really. Its a them or us situation. Back in 2008 we may have had a chance are guaranteeing deposits to 100k and definitely up to 50k. This would have been expensive but it would have been cheaper. Today unless the ECB guaranteed our deposits i dont think we could default and save much.

Ireland is in big trouble for a long long time and I hate to see it.

jmayo

ednwireland wrote: »

http://budget.irishexaminer.com/analysis/dukes-35bn-bailout-is-not-enough-139248.html

how is dukes still in a job ? surely someone should be put in there to clear all the sh1t out once and for all. this drip feed is a nightmare it needs to be sorted and once, not 2 years of this

mcwilliams said that after the swedish bank guarantee, the boards of the banks were replaced and the dodgy banks wound up in 2 months ! our glorious gov has messed about for 2 + years

Don't you know every f**king thing in Ireland takes longer. :mad:
It take this country many times longer than other countries:

• to build a straight forward section of motorway,
• to build a bog standard tunnel,
• to build a couple of unconnected tram lines,
• to build an airport terminal,
• to investigate political corruption,
• to investigate planning corruption,
• to investigate training agency fraud,
• to investigate public sector fraudalent use of funds
• to investigate bankers seriously unethical if not corrupt banking practices
• and to actually figure out how much the banks are going to cost to bailout.

We are a nation of talkers and not doers.

Permabear

This post has been deleted.

Jaysoose

robbyvibes wrote: »

Well, as you know, we need a banking system run by insolvent banks.

Without these bankrupt banks, Ireland as a society would just be consumed by the atlantic ocean at the command of the IMF.

So, the best solution without having to consider others is to continue borrowing to keep insolvent banks running until we know it's not working.

It's a complex situation of course and it should not be the decision of irish people what happens to their money.

We need to remain on track, atleast until it's too late.

Nice use of sarcasm...sad thing is it is true, this whole mess is being compounded by more and more money being chucked into these "banks". There has been no accountability at any level for any of this and people are stil commanding outrageous salaries/pensions/bonuses after running this country into the ground.

I honestly think we have not seen the half of it regarding these "banks" and we will go under before the end of next year, i hope im wrong but with the usual waffle and posturing coming out of leinster house about "the real World" and the continued insistance to pay our public service more than most of europe for a service that is third rate i just dont see any other outcome.

Dempo1

donegalfella wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

Some valid points but i feel its important to note not all Mortgage holders in distress borrowed foolishly, indeed there is evidence a substantial portion of distressed mortgage holders are people who have lost jobs. I don't thinks its a simple case of the government artificially propping up the property market by making it difficult for banks to repossess, the harsh reality is the Market is distressed by over inflated prices created by speculation and indeed the governments tax break policies. In reality, the banks themselves don't want to repossess as they know that ultimately they will either left sitting on these properties or end up selling them at discounted prices which in essence would further distress the property market. I've spent some time looking at various property websites and auctioneering firms in my locality (nothing and i mean nothing is selling) the only thing that is happening is enormous price reductions which in themselves are not making the slightest bit of difference. Whether we like it or not, some mechanism is going to have to be created to help distressed mortgage holders, even if such arrangements require loans to be extended, enforced fixed interest rates etc. I can't figure out why the banks could not re look at the entire Mortgage Loan Model, why for example could the banks not look at Mortgage loan books, look at realistic ways of recouping or having mortgages paid off, Turn distressed mortgages into Fixed rate personal loans with manageable payment options. After that, if defaults occur then repossess the homes, it may be a naive argument but nothing that is being proposed offers a better solution?

Maserati23

I said the above many many times. But this takes the biscuit, Never mind the 35 Billion .

The default on mortgages coming in 2011, but a major factor that was not mentioned with Mr. Dukes, was their is a major defecit coming our way in the defaults on start up, and major business start up loans that have not been taking into account either.


Its just not cricket, it goes on and on, the laughing stock of the world. As for SIPTU getting more millions over the weekend (Found out that is),no more mention of this!!!!!!!!

Yes WE have to default or our loans, no question of that. I reckon another 18 Billion is required for Anglo Irish alone. This is just myself perusing other Irish and English radio channels this morning.



I am going to go for a walk, stop cheking boards.ie or listening to Irish media, ( They are Bias anyhow to keep their jobs, maybe not on wriiten media but I have not seen anybody with a one to one with Clowen, or Lendahand, putting it up to them like , Stating if you just back out of Anglo IRISH promises made, even "now" we would at least have a chance of getting back to some sort of sanity.


But no Lendahand just wants to keep borrowing off the EU to give it straight back to the EU Angela Merkle in particular.


I know what I am trying to say here but I woke up at 6.30 listening to this new development and my head is "MELTED":mad:


I cant take anymore lies that seem to be par for the course for the Irish people. At least one of the cathastrophes that happened in the last few weeks should have brought down any government in the world.


A new hospital in Kerry and a 400 Million Casino in Tipperrary, just for 2 votes. In the middle of a depression. OMG.


If you can decipher this fairplay to you, I am going to seek out a psychiatrist, my brain cannot stand anymore.


Not One man Jailed, Everybody guilty is far away in summer climates and houses etc. put into spouses names etc. They will be back to fleece us again. Not one A4 piece of paper sent to the DPP from anglo with the Gardai in the premises everyday for 2 and a half years.


And Biffo Maintains he done the right thing, as he says History will show......

If I was the IMF, EU bailout fund etc. I would retract my offer. WE ARE GOING TO DEFAULT BIG TIME.

As you can see I am not politically minded ,what I now Know is staying awake many hours just looking between, Bloomberg, Rte, BBC, Euronews, Breaking news.ie. and Boards.ie

Tell that to my 6 year old, and my 15 year old, and myself on Disability pension for the rest of my life. I cannot even point my little ones in the right direction, never mind not having the money to properly educate them.

Rant over. Jesus I just read that back to myself, I need help. I never thought I would spill this out, on the internet, but a problem shared is.....Whatever.


Merry Xmas. And good luck to the genuine people of Ireland, they are stripping you of your dignity.

Permabear

This post has been deleted.

jmayo

jmayo wrote: »

Don't you know every f**king thing in Ireland takes longer. :mad:
It take this country many times longer than other countries:

• to build a straight forward section of motorway,
• to build a bog standard tunnel,
• to build a couple of unconnected tram lines,
• to build an airport terminal,
• to investigate political corruption,
• to investigate planning corruption,
• to investigate training agency fraud,
• to investigate public sector fraudalent use of funds
• to investigate bankers seriously unethical if not corrupt banking practices
• and to actually figure out how much the banks are going to cost to bailout.

We are a nation of talkers and not doers.

with no accountability....perfect example if the Scottish Transport minister resigning because of the snow response while last year our transport minister was on holidays and wouldnt come home

ZYX

jmayo wrote: »

Don't you know every f**king thing in Ireland takes longer. :mad:

It take this country many times longer than other countries:

• to build a straight forward section of motorway,
• to build a bog standard tunnel,
• to build a couple of unconnected tram lines,
• to build an airport terminal,
• to investigate political corruption,
• to investigate planning corruption,
• to investigate training agency fraud,
• to investigate public sector fraudalent use of funds
• to investigate bankers seriously unethical if not corrupt banking practices
• and to actually figure out how much the banks are going to cost to bailout.

We are a nation of talkers and not doers.

So of this list of things how many have you done or are you just a talker?

jmayo

ZYX wrote: »

jmayo wrote: »

Don't you know every f**king thing in Ireland takes longer. :mad:
It take this country many times longer than other countries:

• to build a straight forward section of motorway,
• to build a bog standard tunnel,
• to build a couple of unconnected tram lines,
• to build an airport terminal,
• to investigate political corruption,
• to investigate planning corruption,
• to investigate training agency fraud,
• to investigate public sector fraudalent use of funds
• to investigate bankers seriously unethical if not corrupt banking practices
• and to actually figure out how much the banks are going to cost to bailout.

We are a nation of talkers and not doers.

So of this list of things how many have you done or are you just a talker?

Well lets see.
I do not work in planning, any local authority/council, Rail procurement agency, NRA, Gardaí, DPP, Fás, any bank, Companies Office, IFSRA, CB, Dept of Finance, etc.
Nor did I ever lodge objections to any infrastructure planning.

So please entlighten me as to how I was responsible for the above list of delays ?

Were you involved in any of the above list ?

Leiva

Dukes is only repeating what Morgan Kelly has said weeks ago .

Morgan Kelly has always (IMO) been ahead of the game , If he is even 50% right in his predictions ...we are Goosed .

If you take 50% of what Morgan Kelly says & 50% of Eddie Hobbs says (who i think gets it nearly right) then next years news will be full of mortgage defaults and the failing of the Euro .

AlekSmart

Worrying article about comments Alan Dukes made regarding the bailout.

A c`mon Martyoo,anybody watching the creep attempting to weasel out of answering Sen.Shane Ross`s very pertinent questions before the Dail Committee would have absolutely no surprise at this latest outpouring from A.Dukes.

Dukes represents to a huge degree,much of the Irish Malaise.

Appointed to do a specific job of work...uses that to manouvere into a more advantageous position and bingo !!! It`s all systems go for Big Al......:(

Make no mistake,but with each passing day the news clips of Nicolae Ceaucescu addressing "his" people assumes more and more relevance to forthcoming events in this blighted country.....:(

Noreen1

I've said before, many times, that Anglo should never have been bailed out.

I'll now put it a little more bluntly Mr. Dukes needs to be told to take a long, flying leap....and to take Anglo with him!
The man is insensitive beyond belief!:mad::mad: How much more does he think the banks can squeeze out of the average Irish citizen?:mad:
If he failed to take account of possible mortgage defaults, then he is incompetent beyond belief - and, as such, is incapable of doing his job.
If he did not fail to take account of mortgage defaults, and just avoided mentioning them when he produced the "final" figure of 34+ Billion, then he is hardly ethical, and, as such, unfit for purpose.

It's long past time that our illustrious "leaders" told the bloodsucking banks to take a hike - and to accept the losses that they encouraged by lending recklessly....and that includes the European banks!

While I'm on a roll - it's time the current Government were forced out of Dail Eireann, since they refuse to go willingly before they can inflict any more damage.:mad:

Surely the opposition parties, and the Independents will now vote against the ECB/IMF bailout, and insist on a re-negotiation? Failure to do so would be deliberate economic sabotage, since AFAIK, we will be forced to pump up to another 35 Billion into failed Capitalist enterprises...... That 25 Billion "reserve" is looking very vulnerable right now.:eek:

You never know - voting against the Bailout might even force FF to "go to the country". At least that would be something positive in the whole sorry mess.:D

Noreen

Chucky the tree

The way the governenment want to run the banks they will never become profitable. The short-sighted attitude of culling all bonuses and taking away all incentives for the top employees to perform to their best is going to be a killer. AIB will be left with a very poor group workers looking after it because all the good ones who made profit's in there various areas have no doubt up and left to banks who will actually rewards them for making money for their companies rather then slapping a 90% tax on it.

Sir Oxman

Noreen1 wrote: »

I've said before, many times, that Anglo should never have been bailed out.

I'll now put it a little more bluntly Mr. Dukes needs to be told to take a long, flying leap....and to take Anglo with him!
The man is insensitive beyond belief!:mad::mad: How much more does he think the banks can squeeze out of the average Irish citizen?:mad:
If he failed to take account of possible mortgage defaults, then he is incompetent beyond belief - and, as such, is incapable of doing his job.
If he did not fail to take account of mortgage defaults, and just avoided mentioning them when he produced the "final" figure of 34+ Billion, then he is hardly ethical, and, as such, unfit for purpose.

It's long past time that our illustrious "leaders" told the bloodsucking banks to take a hike - and to accept the losses that they encouraged by lending recklessly....and that includes the European banks!

While I'm on a roll - it's time the current Government were forced out of Dail Eireann, since they refuse to go willingly before they can inflict any more damage.:mad:

Surely the opposition parties, and the Independents will now vote against the ECB/IMF bailout, and insist on a re-negotiation? Failure to do so would be deliberate economic sabotage, since AFAIK, we will be forced to pump up to another 35 Billion into failed Capitalist enterprises...... That 25 Billion "reserve" is looking very vulnerable right now.:eek:

You never know - voting against the Bailout might even force FF to "go to the country". At least that would be something positive in the whole sorry mess.:D

Noreen

Unfortunately, we are being told the deal done by the gangster FF/GP so-called govt is the'only deal in town'
Just like the original bank guarantee and bailout was and just as NAMA was.
The restructure/default is coming, rest assured.

Liam Byrne

Chucky the tree wrote: »

The way the governenment want to run the banks they will never become profitable. The short-sighted attitude of culling all bonuses and taking away all incentives for the top employees to perform to their best is going to be a killer. AIB will be left with a very poor group workers looking after it because all the good ones who made profit's in there various areas have no doubt up and left to banks who will actually rewards them for making money for their companies rather then slapping a 90% tax on it.

Remind us again what those "top employees" were doing when they bankrupted said banks ?

Remind us where those employees would be if FF hadn't subverted the laws of capitalism ?

PhatPiggins

When a former minister for finance, a director of the country's biggest liability starts his analysis with "I reckon" you know the band as just slipped below the water