Legality/ NCT issues?

dgt

I am currently in the process of converting my car to a van but I am going to keep it private (no commercial route). I do however want to make a few non standard changes but the one that is concening me is relocating the battery to the boot. The plan is to relocate it to the spare wheel well and have the spare wheel placed behind the drivers seat with the jack and brace, this is for convenience. Would the NCT accept this? Will I have to keep it outside the spare wheel well? Or would they even allow this type of modification?

Will be fine once properly secured and the wiring both adequate and routed/terminated correctly. Wheel and jack etc will have to be secure as well.

geespot

not sure about the legality of this as you are modifing car plus you have you insurance to think of you may not be covered what is the benifit if you not going to tax it commercial

dgt

I asked the insurance before and a van conversion is fine as long as it has an engineers report to accompany it but its the battery im unsure about. Wouldnt be worth the hassle going commercial (€288 vs €310) and id lose all my ncb if i were to apply for car insurance again (according to my insurer)

-Corkie-

Can i ask whats wrong with the battery where it is. In the engine bay I presume..:)

Yawns

prob an attempt to confuse would be car thieves if the carvan will be holding tools. If an alarm is hooked to the battery they would open bonnet and find no battery

dgt

Its in the engine bay alright at the mo. For future maintanance it would save me alot of hassle and I could have more access to the other side of the engine plus I wouldnt be limited to a small battery size.

They would wonder where the battery was and how the car was starting

geespot

once battery was secure and properly wired fused etc it be all right also fbd will let you use ncb on car for van up to 3.5 tonne and vice versa

gofaster_s13

If you convert it to a van you will have to do an annual DOE test, not an NCT as the NCT can't test vans regardless of the tax status(private or commercial). batteries fitted internally have to be fitted in a sealed compartment vented externally as the gases produced by a battery are explosive. The spare wheel if fitted internally must be secure.

You must plan on doing a lot of maintainance on the car to make it worth while moving the batterry to the boot.

dgt

My old 520i had the battery under the rear bench but there was no clear vents that I could see leading outside However Im guessing that a sealed battery box would be the way to go with a pipe to vent the gasses outside?

How will I be able to register to test my car for a doe? Its not ready yet so I have a good bit of time to sort this out first

kona

gofaster_s13 wrote: »

batteries fitted internally have to be fitted in a sealed compartment vented externally as the gases produced by a battery are explosive. The spare wheel if fitted internally must be secure.

Do you have a source for this? BMW cars have it at the back as do some other cars, never seen it in a sealed/vented box, all they have is a cover over it, presumambly to stop the possibility of shorting it accidentally?

gofaster_s13

kona wrote: »

Do you have a source for this? BMW cars have it at the back as do some other cars, never seen it in a sealed/vented box, all they have is a cover over it, presumambly to stop the possibility of shorting it accidentally?

The BMW batteries are SUPPOSED to have a vent tube running from the lid of the battery casing out through a hole in the floor to vent battery gases. A lot of batteries fitted by fast fit set up's are generic multi fitment batteries and don't have this vent fitted on them and the rubber vent tube gets thrown away because the 17 year old working in the tyre shop doesnt know what it's for. All internally fitted batteries are vented otherwise an overcharging alternator or faulty battery could cause a build up of Hydrogen gas which is both poisonous and highly explosive.

Del2005

dgt wrote: »

Its in the engine bay alright at the mo. For future maintanance it would save me alot of hassle and I could have more access to the other side of the engine plus I wouldnt be limited to a small battery size.

I've worked on many cars and the only time the the battery has been an issue is when replacing bulbs. What type of car is it that you can't do maintenance with the battery in it's position and what are you planning on running off it to need a bigger battery?

It would be easier and safer to just install a 2nd battery for any heavy duty work, you don't want to kill the main cranking battery!

They would wonder where the battery was and how the car was starting

They wouldn't wonder anything, they'd just wreck it.

kona

gofaster_s13 wrote: »

The BMW batteries are SUPPOSED to have a vent tube running from the lid of the battery casing out through a hole in the floor to vent battery gases. A lot of batteries fitted by fast fit set up's are generic multi fitment batteries and don't have this vent fitted on them and the rubber vent tube gets thrown away because the 17 year old working in the tyre shop doesnt know what it's for. All internally fitted batteries are vented otherwise an overcharging alternator or faulty battery could cause a build up of Hydrogen gas which is both poisonous and highly explosive.

Well, Ive learned something new and my car doesnt have one of them, and the NCT never said anything, as long as it was secured they said happy days!

Ive never seen a 17 year old workin in a tyre shop! How and ever, I have never seen one of those vents in and BMW ive seen (not many) although i have noticed the vents on some batteries in the autofactors.
I wonder how many BMW have had a explosion from this? Surely the chances of A) the Battery actually producing enough hydrogen gas and providing a spark for it is really low! youd want to have some real ****ty luck!

Del2005

kona wrote: »

How and ever, I have never seen one of those vents in and BMW ive seen (not many) although i have noticed the vents on some batteries in the autofactors.
I wonder how many BMW have had a explosion from this? Surely the chances of A) the Battery actually producing enough hydrogen gas and providing a spark for it is really low! youd want to have some real ****ty luck!

Properly the same risk as a phone igniting petrol fumes when fuelling, never happened but it could.

gofaster_s13

Del2005 wrote: »

Properly the same risk as a phone igniting petrol fumes when fuelling, never happened but it could.

Wrong, it often happens, I've seen it several times and the resulting bang is powerful enough to blow open the bonnet of a car, ring the Eye and ear hospital in Dublin and ask them how many Mechanics have been blinded or suffered eye damage from this, you'll be surprised. A faulty car battery will produce a lot of Hydrogen gas, often enough to smell it from 10/15ft away from the car, providing a spark is the easy part, all it takes is a loose wheelbrace, loose jack or loose tin of beans from the weekly shopping to short the positive pole to earth and the resulting bang(and it is a bang, not a crack or a pop) will temporarily deafen you.

Read the article below, it accuratly describes a battery exploding under a rear seat.
http://www.google.ie/imgres?imgurl=http://www.vinland.com/Images/Battery-Terminal.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.vinland.com/Car-Battery.html&usg=__TmhAPX9lWj0KFASupGxD6hxbDEg=&h=330&w=400&sz=19&hl=en&start=3&zoom=1&tbnid=Xi3kAplIzf_vmM:&tbnh=102&tbnw=124&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dexploding%2Bcar%2Bbattery%26hl%3Den%26safe%3Doff%26gbv%3D2%26tbs%3Disch:1&itbs=1

Exploded BMW battery

Gophur

For NCT, if the registration documents state the vehicle has accommodation for 5 people, then you must have 5 seats and 5 seat belts. Removal of them will render your car an NCT failure

kona

Gophur wrote: »

For NCT, if the registration documents state the vehicle has accommodation for 5 people, then you must have 5 seats and 5 seat belts. Removal of them will render your car an NCT failure

Erm, mine passed with the rear belts removed and race harnesses anchored into their mounting points and Bucket seats up front, however it is physically impossible to get a person in the back now, maybe thats why, but it did pass .

kona

gofaster_s13 wrote: »

Wrong, it often happens, I've seen it several times and the resulting bang is powerful enough to blow open the bonnet of a car, ring the Eye and ear hospital in Dublin and ask them how many Mechanics have been blinded or suffered eye damage from this, you'll be surprised. A faulty car battery will produce a lot of Hydrogen gas, often enough to smell it from 10/15ft away from the car, providing a spark is the easy part, all it takes is a loose wheelbrace, loose jack or loose tin of beans from the weekly shopping to short the positive pole to earth and the resulting bang(and it is a bang, not a crack or a pop) will temporarily deafen you.

Read the article below, it accuratly describes a battery exploding under a rear seat.
http://www.google.ie/imgres?imgurl=http://www.vinland.com/Images/Battery-Terminal.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.vinland.com/Car-Battery.html&usg=__TmhAPX9lWj0KFASupGxD6hxbDEg=&h=330&w=400&sz=19&hl=en&start=3&zoom=1&tbnid=Xi3kAplIzf_vmM:&tbnh=102&tbnw=124&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dexploding%2Bcar%2Bbattery%26hl%3Den%26safe%3Doff%26gbv%3D2%26tbs%3Disch:1&itbs=1

Exploded BMW battery

Holy ****! I knew it was powerful but that is nuts, we shorted a car battery for a micra before, just for the laugh and you should have seen what it did to the spanner, a chrome vanadium spanner, was totally warped and discoloured.

However isnt there a cover over batteries to stop a accidental short? Id say alot of those accidents is down to careless mechanics getting unlucky with a mispalced spanner.

gofaster_s13

It only takes a slight spark to set off the gas, I've seen corroded and bad contacts on battery terminals do it, a flicker of a spark will do it.

gofaster_s13

kona wrote: »

Holy ****! I knew it was powerful but that is nuts, we shorted a car battery for a micra before, just for the laugh and you should have seen what it did to the spanner, a chrome vanadium spanner, was totally warped and discoloured.

That was incredibly stupid, I've heard of peoples wedding rings and steel watch straps burning into their skin, if the battery you shorted went up with you leaning over it, it could potentially have blinded you. Also the race harnesses you mounted to the rear seat belt catch mounting points is dangerous, look at some of the harness manufacturers instructions, if the harness is mounted that low, in an impact the harness pulls you down into the seat, crushing down on your spine, the harness is supposed to be mounted at shoulder height, like a seat belt.

kona

gofaster_s13 wrote: »

That was incredibly stupid, I've heard of peoples wedding rings and steel watch straps burning into their skin, if the battery you shorted went up with you leaning over it, it could potentially have blinded you. Also the race harnesses you mounted to the rear seat belt catch mounting points is dangerous, look at some of the harness manufacturers instructions, if the harness is mounted that low, in an impact the harness pulls you down into the seat, crushing down on your spine, the harness is supposed to be mounted at shoulder height, like a seat belt.

Im not that stupid, the harness is mounted at shoulder height, to the mount on the Pillar at the back, I do read and study things before I put them into my car.
Also Im not dumb enough to lean over something while I shorted it out, Im also not into getting darwin awards, not ****ing way was i touching the spanner when it completed the circuit, we were a fair bit back.

dgt

Gophur wrote: »

For NCT, if the registration documents state the vehicle has accommodation for 5 people, then you must have 5 seats and 5 seat belts. Removal of them will render your car an NCT failure

There will be no seats or belts in the back, just 2 at the front and 2 seatbelts. The car will be getting an engineers report and the tax book will be updated (colour will be changed too) the car may need to go for a doe instead of an nct too

gofaster_s13 wrote: »

It only takes a slight spark to set off the gas, I've seen corroded and bad contacts on battery terminals do it, a flicker of a spark will do it.

I should have thought of that, whenever I'm charging a battery I open the pugs at the top to let the gasses out, fail on my behalf but cheers for pointing it out. A battery box is a must so

thats not gone well

car may need to go for a doe instead of an nct too

if its declared as a van but taxed privately, no test is needed. the nct wont touch a van and the doe only apply commercially taxed vehicles.;)

dgt

thats not gone well wrote: »

if its declared as a van but taxed privately, no test is needed. the nct wont touch a van and the doe only apply commercially taxed vehicles.;)

I have heard this before but having a gander through the rsa page states all vehicles must be tested. Although I would like to see if anyone has done this mind you

thats not gone well

Q: I have a 4x4 'jeep', do i need a NCT or DOT?
A: If your vehicle type is 'Private' you need to test it at the NCT centre,if your vehicle type is 'Commercial' you need to test it at a DOT centre..

from here
http://www.vehicletesting.ie/239/riverstick-motors-ltd/profile.html

this appears to say the same as posted earlier tho.
interesting to see what happens if you get stopped and say the centres wont test it haha

dgt

Hmmm you have me thinking now either way Ill book it for an nct when its ready and see how it goes from there as for the battery, ill need to get a battery box first before I can relocate it safely, sourcing one at the right price will be the challenge. Cheers for all the advice!!

gofaster_s13

Those regulations have changed, I'm a DOE tester and we got notification from the RSA that all Vans must be DOE tested regardless of taxation status(private or commercial) al the privatly taxed small Fiesta vans etc. must now be tested. No test on any road vehicle is a Points awardable offence.

Sids Not

If it helps with the battery situation..i have a van and the battery is mounted under the passenger seat in the cab, there's a plastic pipe going through the floor for ventilation.....Once it has a vent pipe and is securely mounted i dont see an issue....

dgt

gofaster_s13 wrote: »

Those regulations have changed, I'm a DOE tester and we got notification from the RSA that all Vans must be DOE tested regardless of taxation status(private or commercial) al the privatly taxed small Fiesta vans etc. must now be tested. No test on any road vehicle is a Points awardable offence.

That was my initial thought as i saw that on the rsa page. I did go into the local tax office earlier today and they were unsure whether the car would need a doe or nct (leaning towards an nct though), fat lot of help that was but it does imply that it needs testing for road legality

Sids Not wrote: »

If it helps with the battery situation..i have a van and the battery is mounted under the passenger seat in the cab, there's a plastic pipe going through the floor for ventilation.....Once it has a vent pipe and is securely mounted i dont see an issue....

Is it connected to the small elbow pipe at the top or has it a cover and pipe?