DART line closed Dun Laoghaire-Bray 25 December to 3 January

Run_to_da_hills

Dart services are to be suspended between Dunlaoghaire and Bray between december 23 and January 3rd to facilitate upgrading the line between Dunlaoghaire and Sandycove. Local bus services between Dunlaoghaire and Bray will honour Dart tickets.

A chance for people in the locality to see and hear some GM activity.

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ireland/2010/1211/1224285302528.html

trad

Just saw it on the IR site a few mins ago. I'm working all over the holidays and I've been looking for an excuse to start cycling to work, looks like now's the time.

Run_to_da_hills

trad wrote: »

Just saw it on the IR site a few mins ago. I'm working all over the holidays and I've been looking for an excuse to start cycling to work, looks like now's the time.

CIE should allow bicycles on the Dart service during this period to make up for it.

Cookie_Monster

they are closing a major commuter route for 2 weeks :eek:

what about the thousands of people who have to work normal days 23, 24, 29, 30, 31 of Dec? Business & offices don't shut down on these days anymore.

goingnowhere

I don't get why there are so many posters who want to misrepresent information.

The line is closed Dec 27th - Jan 3rd, Jan 3rd is a bank holiday. It is not closed on December 23rd or 24th. Its all there in the Tim O'Brien article.

schemingbohemia

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

they are closing a major commuter route for 2 weeks :eek:

what about the thousands of people who have to work normal days 23, 24, 29, 30, 31 of Dec? Business & offices don't shut down on these days anymore.

yes they do close down, i usually work between christmas and new year and there's feck all people in the city centre working those days.

when else would you suggest they close down? they're not doing it for the laugh you know.

Cookie_Monster

the last three business I have worked for all remain open during the xmas period, closing only on the bank holidays. these are all major offices employing hundreds of people. Part time retails I worked for were exactly the same.

Closing at the weekends & bank-holidays, or overnight for work is fine but normal working days is taking the piss IMO

trad

Run_to_da_hills wrote: »

CIE should allow bicycles on the Dart service during this period to make up for it.

I wish they would but I work beyond Greystones and there will only be a service between Bray and Greystones, now there's a thought, I wonder if the nice IR man would let em take my road bike on the Bray / Greystones service for the duration. I'm getting a dart at 15.08 so I'll ask and report back.

Jehuty42

If you have to do heavy, difficult and prolonged maintenance like this(and you do, since that stretch of line is falling apart and has a 10mph restriction), it would be literally impossible to pick a better time of year to do it. Lots of regular commuters are off work at the same time, in a pattern that you don't find at other times of the year. Can anyone name an alternative 7 days that would cause less disruption? I suspect you'll find there is no such alternative. Essential engineering work is important, there is enough precedence to show that.

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

Closing at the weekends & bank-holidays, or overnight for work is fine but normal working days is taking the piss IMO

This work has to be done as one block, you can't spread it out over multiple nights or weekends, since it involves physically removing the track and trackbed! Removing, what, a mile, of concrete probably a few feet thick takes time. Yes, it's a disruption, but it is necessary work that improves safety, journey times and reliability and it is being done at a time designed to minimise disruption.

Run_to_da_hills

Why can't they run a sregular huttle bus between Dunlaoghaire and Sandycove and a Dart / DMU service between Sandycove and Bray?

DMU's would be sufficient if overhead power lines were an issue.

CIE

Jehuty42 wrote: »

If you have to do heavy, difficult and prolonged maintenance like this(and you do, since that stretch of line is falling apart and has a 10mph restriction), it would be literally impossible to pick a better time of year to do it. Lots of regular commuters are off work at the same time, in a pattern that you don't find at other times of the year. Can anyone name an alternative 7 days that would cause less disruption? I suspect you'll find there is no such alternative. Essential engineering work is important, there is enough precedence to show that.

This work has to be done as one block, you can't spread it out over multiple nights or weekends, since it involves physically removing the track and trackbed! Removing, what, a mile, of concrete probably a few feet thick takes time. Yes, it's a disruption, but it is necessary work that improves safety, journey times and reliability and it is being done at a time designed to minimise disruption.

Is this the "make excuses for IE" forum now...? I suppose most people on here are not as old as I. I recall pre-DART when that selfsame trackbed on the former Atmospheric Railway was conventional sleepers and ballast. People should have raised hell when DART was unnecessarily closed on weekends for platform extension work (everywhere else in the world there would have been no weekend closures). And imagine if the Harcourt Street Line were rebuilt as DART rather than Luas, and you had an alternate rail route to the city from Bray and Shankill at least? (because all you can do now is imagine.) Sure must have been one abused section of fancy concrete if it's falling apart after 26 years...

Jehuty42

Was there a point to that rambling post? I'm not apologising or making excuse for IE, I am just not so blinkered as yourself, JD and others that I see every single thing they do as a manifestation of the purest evil.

The slabbing was originally laid so as to increase clearance with the addition of overhead lines taking up space.

Closing stations to extend platforms does seem a bit silly alright.

Clearly there are problems with this slabbing in the here and now given the speed restriction, so it is being replaced. Whatever about how it was laid back in 1983/4, there are issues with it now that must be solved. So please tell me what you suggest should be done instead of the current arrangement and explain why your proposal is better, while still solving the problem. Is there a better course of action that IE can take right now, without a time machine? I can't see one.

Jehuty42

Run_to_da_hills wrote: »

Why can't they run a sregular huttle bus between Dunlaoghaire and Sandycove and a Dart / DMU service between Sandycove and Bray?

DMU's would be sufficient if overhead power lines were an issue.

That could and should be done. There are probably some issues with signalling, but I imagine it would be possible, though obviously IE won't do it.

Judgement Day

Jehuty42 wrote: »

Was there a point to that rambling post? I'm not apologising or making excuse for IE, I am just not so blinkered as yourself, JD and others that I see every single thing they do as a manifestation of the purest evil.

The slabbing was originally laid so as to increase clearance with the addition of overhead lines taking up space.

Closing stations to extend platforms does seem a bit silly alright.

Clearly there are problems with this slabbing in the here and now given the speed restriction, so it is being replaced. Whatever about how it was laid back in 1983/4, there are issues with it now that must be solved. So please tell me what you suggest should be done instead of the current arrangement and explain why your proposal is better, while still solving the problem. Is there a better course of action that IE can take right now, without a time machine? I can't see one.

Well thanks for mentioning me although I haven't contributed to this thread! The saga of the slab track between Dun Laoghaire and Sandycove is the legacy of one David Waters a former Civil Engineer with CIE/IE. To say that the slab track between the two aforementioned stations has been an expensive, engineers wet dream would be charitable, as even at the time that it was being installed it had already proved unreliable in the UK at Bedford.

Over the years since its installation on the DART line there has been attempted remedial work but it takes forever and progress is almost negligible hence the planned works programme over Christmas. It will be interesting to see exactly how much of the slab track can be replaced during this prolonged closure and at what cost.

Victor

Run_to_da_hills wrote: »

Why can't they run a sregular huttle bus between Dunlaoghaire and Sandycove and a Dart / DMU service between Sandycove and Bray?

DMU's would be sufficient if overhead power lines were an issue.

Doesn't the slab track extend into Sandycove & Glasthule station? So it would have to be Glenageary.

You can't use just a single bus to do the shuttle work as a train load of people arrive at a time.

loyatemu

so will this section actually be any quicker when they're finished? Its ludicrously slow now and has been for years - if they can improve this it will be worth it.

and as other have said, even in businesses where the office is open, a lot of people take these days off. anytime I've worked the days between Xmas and New Year there's been fewer people on the Dart than on a Sunday morning - if they have to close the line then this is clearly the time of year to do it (and there's likely to be plenty of spare capacity on the buses, and little traffic too)

Run_to_da_hills

Victor wrote: »

Doesn't the slab track extend into Sandycove & Glasthule station? So it would have to be Glenageary.

You can't use just a single bus to do the shuttle work as a train load of people arrive at a time.

AFAIK the slab extends about half way down the platform at Sandycove ending up with concrete sleepers. A two shuttle would do.


The holiday period wouldn't have the same capacity as a normal working week so a few single decker busses between Dunlaoghaire and Sandycove / Glenageary would do. If not add a few extra on the 8 / 58 route. These busses are not that frequent compared to the Dart.

I find it hard to believe that they could replace that whole section in twelve days including curing the concrete if they are going to slab it again.

Jehuty42

It's being replaced with standard ballast and sleepers, not concrete.

It's 7 days, not 12. http://www.irishrail.ie/news_centre/news.asp?action=view&news_id=977 Could you edit the thread title?

Victor

Run_to_da_hills wrote: »

I find it hard to believe that they could replace that whole section in twelve days including curing the concrete if they are going to slab it again.

Its only 7 days.

Working 24 hour means they can fit in three week's worth of 8 hour shifts and dedicate them to product work - no delay from stopping and starting.

Run_to_da_hills

Victor wrote: »

Its only 7 days.

Working 24 hour means they can fit in three week's worth of 8 hour shifts and dedicate them to product work - no delay from stopping and starting.

I hope they are handing out ear muffs for people living in the area,

godtabh

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

the last three business I have worked for all remain open during the xmas period, closing only on the bank holidays. these are all major offices employing hundreds of people. Part time retails I worked for were exactly the same.

Closing at the weekends & bank-holidays, or overnight for work is fine but normal working days is taking the piss IMO

Alot of those days aren't normal working days

jahalpin

CIE wrote: »

Is this the "make excuses for IE" forum now...? I suppose most people on here are not as old as I. I recall pre-DART when that selfsame trackbed on the former Atmospheric Railway was conventional sleepers and ballast. People should have raised hell when DART was unnecessarily closed on weekends for platform extension work (everywhere else in the world there would have been no weekend closures).

All other countries do heavy maintenance on their rail systems during weekend closures or closures during Christmas etc..

Certain lines on the London Underground are closed for maintenance at the weekends and some were closed for extended periods for maintenance\repairs. Network Rail also closes major lines during the Christmas period for repairs and upgrades.

Heavily-used tracks deteriorate due to prolonged use and have to be replaced every couple of years

xper

Me thinks the project managers for this little shindig may end up watching the weather forecasts in the run up to Christmas with furrowed brows.
http://www.irishweatheronline.com/2010/12/severe-weather-alert-ireland-and-uk.html

Run_to_da_hills

xper wrote: »

Me thinks the project managers for this little shindig may end up watching the weather forecasts in the run up to Christmas with furrowed brows.
http://www.irishweatheronline.com/2010/12/severe-weather-alert-ireland-and-uk.html

If they had extended the recent "cut and cover" section as far as Sandycove they wouldn't have this problem.

Victor

xper wrote: »

Me thinks the project managers for this little shindig may end up watching the weather forecasts in the run up to Christmas with furrowed brows.
http://www.irishweatheronline.com/2010/12/severe-weather-alert-ireland-and-uk.html

Well, at least they won't be trying to lay concrete when its snowing.

trad

Haven't been able to get a timetable for the Greystones - Bray shuttle, not available at Greystones, if I get it I'll post details or a link.

goingnowhere

Its been up on the Irish Rail website journey planner for at least the last week

AlekSmart

Working 24 hour means they can fit in three week's worth of 8 hour shifts and dedicate them to product work - no delay from stopping and starting.

Yay,great news Victor...at last a bit of get-it-done emphasis on an important project.

However,just when we think a corner has been turned,along comes RTDH to remind us of our long history of preserving tradition.....

I hope they are handing out ear muffs for people living in the area,

:eek: :eek: :eek:

I`m sure somebody will be along in a minute to enquire as to "who`ll think of the children"....:rolleyes:

Cookie_Monster

while it'd be nice to think that it'll be 24/7 working, the kind of noise and vibration made from breaking up and removing concrete means that can only be done during the day.
The rest of the night time hours could of course be used for track laying but I'm sure the residents would also object the diesel locos and cranes and what not powering by all night.

Though there are only residences very close to the line on Summerhill Parade and Martello Ave, maybe a fifth of the length from DL to S&G stations.

GizAGoOfYerGee

1. What exactly is wrong with the concrete? Subsidence/cracking?

2. Also, when the work is complete, will trains still crawl through that section at 30 mph like they have since the 80s?

jayzee

Jehuty42 wrote: »

Was there a point to that rambling post? I'm not apologising or making excuse for IE, I am just not so blinkered as yourself, JD and others that I see every single thing they do as a manifestation of the purest evil.

The slabbing was originally laid so as to increase clearance with the addition of overhead lines taking up space.

Closing stations to extend platforms does seem a bit silly alright.

Clearly there are problems with this slabbing in the here and now given the speed restriction, so it is being replaced. Whatever about how it was laid back in 1983/4, there are issues with it now that must be solved. So please tell me what you suggest should be done instead of the current arrangement and explain why your proposal is better, while still solving the problem. Is there a better course of action that IE can take right now, without a time machine? I can't see one.

As a regular visitor to north west London I can tell you that Metropolitan line and Chiltern trains after Wembley and to Aylesbury have been replaced by buses on many weekends for the past 3 years, so it is not true to say that this does not happen anywhere else. Check out www.tfl.gov.uk for weekend closures- happens regularly.
This type of outburst belongs on Joe Duffy!

Jcastle

"Physically", the most over used and unnecessary word on the planet. How else were they going to remove the tracks? Mentally? By Voodoo? By divine intervention?

-Chris-

Jcastle wrote: »

"Physically", the most over used and unnecessary word on the planet. How else were they going to remove the tracks? Mentally? By Voodoo? By divine intervention?

And that's literally the most pointless post in this thread so far.

Post constructively or don't post please.

Run_to_da_hills

Work being carried on this line.



Pre assembled track being prepared using conventional wooden sleepers.

maclek

Was down in DL with my two lads yesterday watching the works for a long time. My 10 year old said "I hope they switched off the wires".

Back on topic, why are they using wooden sleepers, that seems a bit old fashioned?

Run_to_da_hills

maclek wrote: »

Was down in DL with my two lads yesterday watching the works for a long time. My 10 year old said "I hope they switched off the wires".

Back on topic, why are they using wooden sleepers, that seems a bit old fashioned?

I started a thread on this recently, seemingly wood has been tried and tested for centuries and more suitable for low speed stretches and points. That particular stretch has a steep curve southbound towards Sandycove.