What on earth has happened to Smackdown?

Rjd2

Indeed.

I just read the spoilers for this week, retarded would be an understatement.

The show however since the glory days of late 2009 when Punk/ Jeff/ Rey/ Y2J/ Edge/ Umaga were tearing it up on a weekly basis has been in decline, however in the last few months its got really bad.

The show's main problem is the dreadful Kane as Champion, his mediocrity as a wrestler has been cruelly exposed in his main event matches. The guy is basically a lost cause unless he is in the ring with Rey or some junior bumping like hell for him.

The recent feud with Edge is just to depressing to discuss, its basically Katie Vick, Mae Young, type stuff but crucially while those angles were truly awful at least they were so bad they were kind of good (in an ironic sort of way). Kane v Edge is just really really really bad. :(:(

However if it was just Kane sucking then it could be fine, midcard and uppercard talents have made shows watchable many times but its no better when you scroll down the roster.


Big Show is basically booked like Hogan, despite the days of him been any sort of a draw are over, is fed midcard heels on a regular basis. His burial of the S.E.S was horrific stuff. His epic booking would be somewhat justified if he put anyone over but since he was drafted in 2010, thats not happened.

Taker worked his arse putting over Kane, why couldn't he ever do that these days with someone young who needs the rub? Someone who may draw money down the line? I despise Hunter but at least he has tried with Sheamus, when was the last time Taker done that? Remember the Punk burial as well?


The other midcard guys who are on the show just exchange wins and reuse feuds constantly. Kofi is in the same spot as he was when on Raw, Swagger is solid, but siince his title reign he has been treading water.

Drew has done nothing of worth in the last year except a brief and unmemorable tag team run which lasted for a few weeks.

Dolph is IC champ but he is someone that could have been elevated much more really. Its also sad they seem to be revisiting his feud with Kofi again, in case anyone missed it they had a feud earlier this year which went on for ages and consisted of around 2345 matches. They will have a few more matches but it won't do either of them any favors as the rivalry is so stale.

Heck, even on this show they broke up the most over tag Over team to never win a belt and why? Everyone knew that Shad would fail as a solo performer as he was so limited in the ring, guys like Archer and Gallows especially are both big guys who can work were released despite the roster been so low. What made it more galling is that Gallows is young and is one of the best big men they have had in ages. They never tried with Archer sadly.

Del Rio has a chance but it remains to be seen how much they will get behind him.

Its ironic when you think that the IWC consistently moaned about Raw been the graveyard for young guys, but on that show we have The Miz as champ, Barrett who has headlined major PPV'S, Sheamus who has been World Champ twice and even Bryan who despite not been pushed as hard is doing very well booking wise.

On Smackdown they haven't elevated anyone like that, we may get some good matches between the young guys on a regular basis, but they mean nothing as their is no feud their, and even then we know the loser will get his win back the next week. Who cares? I reckon if you asked all the SD guys except the veterans they would prefer to be on Raw, as their career's are stalling on a show with decreasing viewers.

Its a turgid show with no focus or direction these days, what the hell happened?


Surely Hayes has to go and be replaced by a booker who cares ?

starviewadams

The depth of talent for fresh and interesting programs is non-existent,thats the main problem.There really needs to be some sort of mini-draft to inject some fresh faces to SD! ASAP.

Even if a new booker came in he/she would still be forced to re-hash feuds or create feuds that fans do not want to see.

When Edge wins the WHC who will he feud with next?Swagger again?Del Rio possibly,but I dont think he would be considered a threat to the title in the majority of casual fans eyes.

Who else is there for Ziggler to feud with besides Kofi or Mysterio?Kaval would've been a decent choice but he's been buried too far now

The choices are very,very limited and as long as the roster is left like this it will continue to stagnate.It still seems to be pulling decent ratings on Sci-Fi in the states so WWE probably aren't even aware of a problem!

GTR63

big problem with Smackdown is that the writers are terrible.Edge going about with Bearer in a wheelchair had to be a hour plus of my life that i'll never get back it was beyond awful. Blaming Kane is just dumb is it his fault the writers wrote the stuff with Edge or his rivalry with a phisicaly broken Taker,which was like Takers character at least a decade past its prime.The majority of wwe's roster isn't capable of the quality lengthy matches that drag out the program Bryan,Punk,Del Rio,Kofi,Swagger great.McIntyre,Rhodes, Ziggler,Barrett put me into a coma.

Jolt2007

It's such a shame since the 2009 run was just so simply done and it's not like they don't have the talent to follow the blueprint from then either. Apart from the names listed already have Trent Barreta and Curt Hawkins even been on Smackdown recently? I haven't even bothered to watch the show in recent times, mostly thanks to the muck that in Kanes title run, although with the storyline going on at the moment I don't think anyone in history could make it work. It's times like this I really miss WWECW for my simple, well booked programming needs

jaykhunter

I've only started watching SmackDown again since the move to SyFy, and wow especially the last few weeks (with the Edge/Bearer crap) it's really hard to watch. Even my bro (who loves Mark Henry and is the easiest fan to please) didn't like it at all. I might just cancel watching the show and try again whenever i hear it's great.

I never really liked smackdown (well, since the Angle/Lesnar days) as it had a serious shortage of stars that i care to watch, and these days outside of Del Rio and Swagger, I could care less. If i'm to continue watching i'm gonna have to fast-forward thru it. WWE should be ashamed. Fair enough you don't have huge shows but the writing and storylines should pick up the slack. But it's not.


..........so not looking forward to this week lol :pac:

waltersobchak

I stopped caring about Smackdown once Kane became champ and Green Day became their theme music...

Mr.Nice Guy

What happened was the draft the WWE did earlier this year. I remember saying at the time I thought Smackdown had got screwed bad. I was surprised some thought Smackdown came off well. Basically Raw raided the place and while Edge went back there, ultimately there just isn't enough strength in depth on SD. I agree on Kane. I think he is very limited and a poor fit on a show which has tended to have champions that could perform well.

Lord TSC

Mr.Nice Guy wrote: »

What happened was the draft the WWE did earlier this year. I remember saying at the time I thought Smackdown had got screwed bad. I was surprised some thought Smackdown came off well. Basically Raw raided the place and while Edge went back there, ultimately there just isn't enough strength in depth on SD.

Smackdown has always been on the wrong end of the drafts but it has rarely stopped them before. Generally, Raw always takes the bigger talent and sends over one or two big guys to keep the ME scene going. Usually, the SD writers have taken that harsh ball and run with it.

I agree with GTR. The problem at the moment is the writing staff. They've got some great talent but for some reason are not using it. I don't know if its because Vince has finally turned his attentions to the show after ignoring it for so long and letting it do its own thing or what has happened, but the wrestlers can only do their best with what they are given.

Mr.Nice Guy

Teamshadowclan wrote: »

Smackdown has always been on the wrong end of the drafts but it has rarely stopped them before. Generally, Raw always takes the bigger talent and sends over one or two big guys to keep the ME scene going. Usually, the SD writers have taken that harsh ball and run with it.

I agree with GTR. The problem at the moment is the writing staff. They've got some great talent but for some reason are not using it. I don't know if its because Vince has finally turned his attentions to the show after ignoring it for so long and letting it do its own thing or what has happened, but the wrestlers can only do their best with what they are given.

The raid on Smackdown this year was particularly harsh though. Morrison, R Truth, Edge (went back but after being weakened), Jericho, Hart Dynasty, Goldust. That's a lot of talent to lose. Who did they get? Big Show (meh), Christian (now injured which is unfortunate), MVP (fired!), Hornswoggle (less said the better), Chavo (is he even used?), Cody Rhodes (don't rate him much). Kofi Kingston was a good one but him aside I can't think of anyone they got that lessened the blow of what they lost and now it shows.

I would like to see better writing too but the talent depth is limited when one looks at Raw.

CMpunked

Cena should be 'hired' on SD by teddy and sit it out there in a feud with Kane until barrett comes-a-knocking for a mania match.
Bar edge, there are a few interesting match ups that could be done with him.

Swagger for example?

JP Liz V1

With Christian out injured the only two stars on SD I find interesting and worthy of a push are Del Rio and Rhodes and I think they could even put Swagger and Drew also in the world title scene on SD

Edge dosent work as a face and I dont think anyone cares about his feud with Kane

Kaval has been wasted since he won Nxt maybe a heel turn and a feud with Rey or Kofi might help him

Masters is very over with the crowds a push for IC title and a feud with Dolph

starviewadams

Mr.Nice Guy wrote: »

Chavo (is he even used?)

He's the guy in Swagger's eagle costume apparently(read it in Power Slam)

Rjd2

No bad points made in this thread so far.:)

The one thing with MVP which infuriates me is that their was no reason not to try and get behind him after he was drafted. On a show where Orton and Cena are king then you expect him not to be pushed. However on SD they were crying out for babyfaces to be elevated, they could have tried with MVP for a B PPV and seen what happened. He has proved he can get the fans behind him.

If he didn't draw, its not the end of the world as after all most casuals buy PPV's depending on the Raw card.

Kaval is someone who proved with winniing NXT he had a fanbase but they have done nothing with him really. Danielson had a lucky escape ending up on Raw,:eek::)

Vince isn't stupid, he wants new guys to be elevated which is obvious by the push of Wade, Miz and Sheamus. I reckon Hayes will be in for some tricky meetings soon.:o:pac:

Cactus Colm

I'm a Kane fan ... but he has been the worst booked champion since Rey Mysterio's first run. I don't get this Paul Bearer stuff. Surely they should be booking him as a dominant monster, instead of .... I don't know what they're booking him as .... a whiney special needs character.

Now Kane may not be the greatest worker in the world, but he is smart enough to be able to work decent matches with good wrestlers. I think it's unfair to lay the blame of the state of smackdown at his feet. More to the terrible storyline he has been given. It's just awful.

Kane should be working fine as a placeholder champion until they decide who next to give it to, and should really be set up as a dominant monster so when some face does come along and beat him it will mean something.

Lord TSC

My problem with the Kane vs Edge story is that despite the fact he is face, Edge has kidnapped, tortured, bullied and apparently killed a man who did little to him. And since he's acting as the heel, Kane can't act as any real character, since he is limited severly by shoddy stories.

jaykhunter

Was last week's SmackDown the worst episode in recent history?

Charisteas

jaykhunter wrote: »

Was last week's SmackDown the worst episode in recent history?

Worst this year i'd say.

jaykhunter

lol, what happened last year? I only started watching SD when they moved to SyFy and if it doesn't do well with the live show i'm gonna stop again. And don't give me another Swagger/Edge match! I don't care for Del Rio and Mysterio again! *claps and opens hands* I'm out!!

Riddle101

I rememeber thinking to myself during the draft that Smackdown got raped once again. I mean Raw got John Cena, Randy Orton, Triple H, Batista(before he left), Edge, Chris Jericho, Sheamus all of which were in the main event, then you also have The Miz who was on the rise, John Morrison who had really shown some progression this year, Daniel Bryan as well as th Nexus. Raw got jam packed with all the talent, and all Smackdown got was Undertaker who was out for most of the year, Rey Mysterio who is just annoying now on the account that despite being the Ultimate Underdog he's booked like John Cena like a superman character, Big Show, Kane and CM Punk who is now on Raw.

I will now evaluate smackdown in my opinion or how i see it going by wrestlers

Kane- I'm a big fan of Kane and like mane Kane fans have always wanted Kane to get a title reign. I dont' care if he's not as good in the ring anymore or is a bit stale now, I just wanted him to retire with a bit of happiness and satisfaction that all those years of being a jobber paid off. That being said, he has been booked terribly(as always) but since his feud with Edge started it's just made it even worse because Kane has been running around for three weeks crying over his father. In reality it should be the opposite, since Kane is the sadistic heel he should be playing these games with Edge, but instead Edge is acting heelish and giving Kane sympathy.

Edge- Since coming the Smackdown, Edge has just been rathe runbearable, at least Smackdown got a main eventer but they lost CM Punk in the process. I think we all knew Kane was fued with Edge, but as I said before the fued has been terrible and just hard to watch. Another thing I would like to mention is that ever since Edge returned from his injury he can't go in the ring anymore, I think it's due to his injury but I think he will be exposed even more on Smackdown then he was on Raw.

Rey Mysterio- I can't stand Rey anymore, like I said, he's supposed to be the Ultimate Underdog but almost always ends up winning and always looks strong. How is he an underdog, the real underdog would be the person facing Rey Mysterio in the ring. I'm glad that he finally put over Del Rio in his debut match because between and Kane, he's only really put over two people this year.

Big Show- Someone said in an earlier post that Big Show is booked like Hulk Hogan. The reason why he is, is because he's supposed to be an attration on Smackdown, like Undertaker is, but also like Andre the Giant was. He's booked dominantly because that how his character is supposed to be booked. Like an unstoppable giant. In reality he's not that much to be looking at anymore, but he by WWE standards he's still good enough to push because of his size. That being said, I only hope that this superman push that Big Show has recieved will all end up with him putting over some new wrestler. I think if it's possible, it would be great for him to put over that new wrestler Jackson Andrews, who looks although as if he'll be booked as this era's new monster. Like Andreww as to the Hulkamania era, or Undertaker to the New Generation era, or even Kane to the attitude era. It seems this guy could potentially be booked as the mosnter of this era. But i've yet to see him in the ring or the mic to really know if he'll stand the test of time.

Dolph Ziggler- Dolph is actually one of the superstars on Smackdown that has actually made it watchable for me. I like Dolph, he shows promise. He's got mic skills, in rings skills, and his gimmick is quite good. Especially with a heat magnet like Vickie Guererrero by his side. I've also liked his I.C Championship reign, but he's gotta be booked better IMO. At the moment, he's in the same place he was at the start of the year, hell in the last two years. He's needs something more, something to make him stand out even more. I think he needs to fued with a Main Eventer. Maybe have him fued with Big Show, or Rey Mysterio after he's done with Del Rio, but he needs a main event fued to put him over even more.

Alberto Del Rio- At the moment Del Rio seems to be the best booked guy on Smackdown, although I don't really care much for him. He's definetely destined for the Main Event. He just needs to end his fued with Rey because it's just become old now. I believe Christian's comments on Raw are foreshadowing a fued with Del Rio. Which I pray won't destory Christian althogether, cause i'd really like for him to get a pushed and possibly win the World Heavyweight Championship.

Cody Rhodes- I don't think Smackdown knows what to do with Cody. he's got an alright gimmick, and seems to get a bit of mic time and segments. But he hasn't fueded with anyone at all, and has basically been in the same position he's been in since last year. I suppose since there's enough going on, on Smackdown, Cody will just have wait his turn but still.

Drew McIntyre- What happened to the Chosen One? He was supposed to be a future champion, yet he's seems to be knocked off the top and pushed downwards. Maybe WWE aren't confident in him enough, or maybe he's just biding his time but for someone who was booked as the future, you'd think there would be more emphasis on him.

Anyway that's the run down i've given on Smackdown. BTW, I believe there were reports, that Micheal Hayes's job as head writer, is in jeapordy now so hopefully WWE can turn this around, and bring Smackdown back from the dead.

kilburn

Kane is a legend and cannot be blamed for smackdowns failure. He should be set on fire again and brought back as the original big red monster character terrorising the wwe

Rjd2

kilburn wrote: »

Kane is a legend and cannot be blamed for smackdowns failure. He should be set on fire again and brought back as the original big red monster character terrorising the wwe

Kane most certainly is no legend.

The guy has never been more than passable in the ring an issue confirmed by his DVD line up which is full of mediocre matches. Its always amusing how the IWC creams themselves over Kane but can never name any classic matches that he has been involved in since his debut WHICH WAS MORE THAN 10 YEARS AGO!!!

He has got worse as the years went on which I suppose is due to old age wear and tear. He simply is neither good enough or deserving enough to be carrying Smackdown these days.

Machismo Fan

Rjd2 wrote: »

Kane most certainly is no legend.

The guy has never been more than passable in the ring an issue confirmed by his DVD line up which is full of mediocre matches. Its always amusing how the IWC creams themselves over Kane but can never name any classic matches that he has been involved in since his debut WHICH WAS MORE THAN 10 YEARS AGO!!!

He has got worse as the years went on which I suppose is due to old age wear and tear. He simply is neither good enough or deserving enough to be carrying Smackdown these days.

And he's nearly single handedly killed the last four or so PPV's. WWE

most likely added Mysterio and Del Rio to the TLC match because they know they can't trust him to deliver.

He has to have been one of the worst champions in recent history.

Smackdown really has taken a nosedive in recent months, but it still has the talent to recover if they just leave it alone.

starviewadams

Kane will never and should never be regarded as a legend.He deserves a lot of respect for sticking around for so long and all that but he should be nowhere near the World Title at this stage in his career.I mean Hardcore Holly was around for years aswell but they never put the Title on him just because of that fact!

CMpunked

no no nooo.

Kane is a legend.
Bob Holly wouldnt be known/remembered by a casual fan.

But nearly everyone i grew up with that never watched wrestling know who kane is.

Rjd2

starviewadams wrote: »

Kane will never and should never be regarded as a legend.He deserves a lot of respect for sticking around for so long and all that but he should be nowhere near the World Title at this stage in his career.I mean Hardcore Holly was around for years aswell but they never put the Title on him just because of that fact!

Mark Henry and Matt Hardy also stuck around for donkey years as well, surely they should be world champions as well. :pac:

While Starvie has hit the nail on the head with this post, the one line I would argue with is does Kane really deserve that much credit for sticking around so long? He has always been one of the top earners and in the uppercard and reasonably well protected. The majority of his matches have been pretty short as well. Kane has had it easy enough over the last decade or so, so I dunno if he should be getting a medal for not quitting.

Anyways even if he did its unlikely his departure would hurt the E in the long term would it?

Riddle101

starviewadams wrote: »

Kane will never and should never be regarded as a legend.He deserves a lot of respect for sticking around for so long and all that but he should be nowhere near the World Title at this stage in his career.I mean Hardcore Holly was around for years aswell but they never put the Title on him just because of that fact!

Kane is far superior then someone like Hardcore Holly, Mark Henry and indeed Matt Hardy. Hardcore Holly has sucked for his entire career in WWE. He's never been able to get popular whatsoever, and he is just bland. WWE tried pushed Holly before, and it fell flat in their faces. Mark Henry was also bland, had nothing going for him instead of his size and the whole Strongest Man in the World thing. He might have had a chance, but between disappearing between the years of 2000 and 2005, only popping once every often, and getting fatter as the years went on. His career just slowy spiralled downwards into mid-card hell. As for Matt Hardy, well despite being arguably the most talented of the Hardy's he just never got a chance really. But at the same time, the last couple of years have just seen Hardy fall from grace, at least Kane managed to stay on top. Kane for the most part was awesome. In his prime, he was just just great and arguably he was just as instrumental to the WWE during the attitude era as Undertaker or Mankind. Kane was great up until around 2004 when he started lose momentum, but he still remained relevant up until 2005, and then after that he spent a few years being jobbed out and put into terrible storylines, such as Kane Vs Fake Kane(With fake Kane winning:eek:) . But yeah, Kane at least has tools to be a champion. Holly, not so much.

Mr.Nice Guy

As much as Kane's in-ring work has been rightly maligned he does still garner great reactions from the crowd. Say what you want about the guy but he's had a great ability to connect with the audience over the years. He was a significant part of the Attitude Era and the character was crazy over. Also for a time when unmasked he was one of the most interesting things in the WWE. I didn't mind him getting a title run this year as I felt he earned it, and he was credible enough to be believable in the role, but I do think it's time for a change now. The Taker/Kane stuff has been done to death and hurt his reign and this feud with Edge has been very disappointing too.

As for whether he's a legend, well some would say Big Show is (Flair put him above Andre for example) and to me Show is not significantly above or below Kane. I would class Kane as a legendary big man. I wouldn't go beyond that.

Also having seen the guy live here a few years back I must say as an attraction he really is something. Him and Show are massive and I'd say for the kids in the audience they must be pretty scary. :pac:

Rjd2

To be a legend you have to have some classic matches, Kane has had none over the years. It also helps if their is some sort of proof that he is a draw such as merch sales, PPV numbers or ratings been helped by him.

Entrance pops are nice but really aren't the be all and end all of everything when it comes to drawing money.

I could also argue that Kane has made no stars at all over the years either.

Anyways each to their own I suppose, Kane fans and haters have heard all this before, I doubt either camps are going to change their minds now.

CMpunked

the forum was due a Kane dissection wasnt it? :pac:

Rjd2

CMpunked wrote: »

the forum was due a Kane dissection wasnt it? :pac:

The newbies don't know what they were missing when back in the day VR and Rovert were hammering him every week.:pac:


I have to track down some of them threads actually, one of them their was a poll in it, twas an epic agruement between VR/ Rovert and Kane fans which went on for about 20 pages or so!. I reckoned Fozzy who was mod at the time lost the will to live reading it. :pac::pac::pac::pac:

Charisteas

I'm not his biggest fan, but I did enjoy his three PPV matches with Undertaker this Autumn, and he's still a guy I look forward to seeing wrestle at house shows.

Undertaker v Kane at WM27, come on guys you know you want it

starviewadams

The only classic match that I can recall Kane being in was vs Kurt Angle at WM18 and that wasn't really a classic,was very good though,as most of Angle's matches are.

Very much doubt Kane was ever a big draw/merch seller either and once he lost his mask in 03 and lost whatever little mystique he still had I stopped being remotely interested in him,in fact whenever his matches come on I more then likely change the channel til they're finished.Again fair play to the lad for managing to stick around for so long,but he should have been put out to pasture at least 6/7 years ago,no way should he be feautured so prominently in 2010.

Mr.Nice Guy

Well in regards to whether Kane's a draw, when Meltzer did that big 50+ list of biggest draws some years back Kane featured and was actually ranked ahead of Flair. I can't remember the criteria used but I'm guessing it's safe to say Kane is a major attraction. I was listening to a radio show on that site recently and they said Kane is a more popular attraction in Mexico than Rey. I found that hard to believe but maybe it's true.

As for him not having classic matches, I'd agree with that. However that charge could be made at many guys who would be regarded as wrestling legends. The British wrestling legends for example like Big Daddy would be nowhere near Kane's level.

I wouldn't be the guy's biggest fan by any means but I think he's had a pretty stellar career for a guy with quite limited in-ring ability. I'm always amazed how he has so many fans amongst the IWC.

CMpunked

Rjd2 wrote: »

The newbies don't know what they were missing when back in the day VR and Rovert were hammering him every week.:pac:


I have to track down some of them threads actually, one of them their was a poll in it, twas an epic agruement between VR/ Rovert and Kane fans which went on for about 20 pages or so!. I reckoned Fozzy who was mod at the time lost the will to live reading it. :pac::pac::pac::pac:

Oh them were the days!

Things were better then. It was like the 'PW attitude era'.
Now everythings just gone all PG. :P

GTR63

Come on guys blaming Kane.He didn't write the Stuff Bearer did with Edge & most the angles in the Taker feud were reheated from the mid to late 90's(add to that Undertaker's gimmick of controlling the lights and that is incredibly Cheesy).I read on the net that Vince is on about sacking Michael Hayes, can't say i'm suprised.

D.Q

Rjd2 wrote: »

The newbies don't know what they were missing when back in the day VR and Rovert were hammering him every week.:pac:


I have to track down some of them threads actually, one of them their was a poll in it, twas an epic agruement between VR/ Rovert and Kane fans which went on for about 20 pages or so!. I reckoned Fozzy who was mod at the time lost the will to live reading it. :pac::pac::pac::pac:

I started that I think... "Was kane an important part of the attitude era"

*enter the ****storm*

That was gas. I had only joined then.

EDIT: http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055402652

Thar she blows.

Rjd2

Mr.Nice Guy wrote: »

Well in regards to whether Kane's a draw, when Meltzer did that big 50+ list of biggest draws some years back Kane featured and was actually ranked ahead of Flair. I can't remember the criteria used but I'm guessing it's safe to say Kane is a major attraction. I was listening to a radio show on that site recently and they said Kane is a more popular attraction in Mexico than Rey. I found that hard to believe but maybe it's true.

As for him not having classic matches, I'd agree with that. However that charge could be made at many guys who would be regarded as wrestling legends. The British wrestling legends for example like Big Daddy would be nowhere near Kane's level.

I wouldn't be the guy's biggest fan by any means but I think he's had a pretty stellar career for a guy with quite limited in-ring ability. I'm always amazed how he has so many fans amongst the IWC.

I'd be fascinated to know how Big Dave came to the conclusion he was a bigger draw than Flair. The fact that Kane was only trusted for a 24 hour title reign before this year is telling, if Vince thought their was a chance he could draw money he would have been given a title reign. I'd love to see a PPV buyrate where Kane spiked.

Anyways thanks for posting that thread again DQ, Rovert and VR were quite good in their reasoning why Kane really isn't worth much in the grand scheme of things bar entrance pops.

Riddle101

Rjd2 wrote: »

I'd be fascinated to know how Big Dave came to the conclusion he was a bigger draw than Flair. The fact that Kane was only trusted for a 24 hour title reign before this year is telling. I'd love to see a PPV buyrate where Kane spiked.

Anyways thanks for posting that thread again DQ, Rovert and VR were quite good in their reasoning why Kane really isn't worth much in the grand scheme of things bar entrance pops.

That whole 24 hour title reign dosen't mean anything. It was typical Vince Russo booking back then. They never even gave Kane a chance.

Also in reference to this ,

if Vince thought their was a chance he could draw money he would have been given a title reign

You have to remember that Kane was working in the WWE during a time when you had Stone Cold and The Rock, the two biggest draws of that era, when it came to making money, Vince always confided in Steve Austin and The Rock because they were his cash cows. Plus Stone Cold held the title for most of 1998, and The Rock held the title quite often as well. It was all pretty much Rock and Austin during those times so naturally Kane wasn't going to be given a title reign. Undertaker was in the same boat as well, although he did get one title reign during the Minstry of Darkness storyline but that was only because of the Minstry storyline. Mankind got a title reign, as well. But my point is, you can't hold the fact that Vince never gave Kane a chance because he wasn't a draw, they never even tried. But more importantly Kane was just unfortunate. Kane could have won the title on numerous occassions, but the opportunity never arose because something else was always in the way or stopping him. I always say Kane could have won Royal Rumble 99 instead of Vince and then gone on to win the title at Mania, but obviously Vince felt it best to put it on himself, who wasn't even a wrestler by the way.

But anyway my point being, Kane was still a good asset to the company back then, and if given the chance he might have prove more sucessful.

Edit- I got this list from another forum that states wrestling top draws from the past to now. But i'm sorry but I can't get a link to the site it was found. However

1. BRUNO SAMMARTINO

2. HULK HOGAN

3. BOB BACKLUND

4. ARGENTINA ROCCA

5. HHH

6. UNDERTAKER

7. STEVE AUSTIN (Undertaker and HHH have passed him in recent years since he finished his career in 2003. Had he not retired at the age of 38 due to injuries, as well as missed what probably would have been his biggest drawing year in 1999 with neck surgery, he would have been No. 2 on this list by now. Nobody ever in company history was a bigger drawing card or merchandise seller then he was at his peak.)

8. THE ROCK

9. PEDRO MORALES

10. SHAWN MICHAELS

11. SUPERSTAR BILLY GRAHAM


12. MIGUEL PEREZ

13. BRET HART

14. BUDDY ROGERS

15. RANDY SAVAGE

16. JOHN CENA

17. KURT ANGLE

18. MICK FOLEY aka CACTUS JACK, DUDE LOVE, MANKIND

19. ANDRE THE GIANT

20. DR. JERRY GRAHAM

(TIE) JOHNNY VALENTINE

22. RODDY PIPER

23. IVAN KOLOFF

24. ULTIMATE WARRIOR

(TIE) RANDY ORTON

(TIE) BATISTA

27. GREG VALENTINE

(TIE) YOKOZUNA

(TIE) SGT. SLAUGHTER

30. GEORGE STEELE

(TIE) CHRIS JERICHO

(TIE) KANE

(TIE) KEVIN NASH aka DIESEL

34. RIC FLAIR

(TIE) BIG SHOW aka PAUL WRIGHT

(TIE) STAN HANSEN

(TIE) GORILLA MONSOON

(TIE) KEN PATERA

39. FRED BLASSIE

(TIE) BOB ORTON SR. aka ROCKY FITZPATRICK

(TIE) BROCK LESNAR

42. EDDIE GRAHAM

(TIE) KILLER KOWALSKI

(TIE) PROFESSOR TORU TANAKA

(TIE) DON MURACO

(TIE) DAVEY BOY SMITH aka BRITISH BULLDOG

(TIE) EDGE

(TIE) CHRIS BENOIT

49. LARRY ZBYSZKO

(TIE) PAUL ORNDORFF

(TIE) IRON SHEIK aka GREAT HOSSEIN ARAB aka COL. MUSTAFA

(TIE) NIKOLAI VOLKOFF aka BEPO MONGOL

(TIE) WALDO VON ERICH

(TIE) BOOKER T aka KING BOOKER

Even though I'm not sure if the list if legit or not, it seems to be a fair summary of all the draws in wrestling. With Kane being 30 on the list, on the same level as Chris Jericho or Kevin Nash but above guys like Flair and Edge, all of which were world champs.

Bubs102

I think the thing about that list is that it overrates house shows so as not to penalize the likes of Rocca and Sammartino