Army spending

wylo

Just wondering how much money is spent on the army every year?
Do you think it would be worth it to implement a complete restructure ? Im talking about cutting it down massively ,like 50% , perhaps things like bringing down a massive amount of staff to part time positions, bringing down some to a sort of unemployed/on call(if still unemployed) type position. Perhaps even scrap the foreign trips altogether.
I know from listening to friends they do nothing a serious amount of the time. It may be just that barracks but I hear this is fairly rampant.
Is it more money being wasted or it is a necessity to take care of floods/ice/other issues.
Lets face it, if we're occupied we are going to have to rely on guerilla warfare anyway.

mgmt

We should never allow the PDF to go on foreign missions. The United Nations has focked up every single mission.

Cut the army by at least 50%. Invest in the navy and airforce. Maybe then we can protect our shoreline from contraband.

JCMM1

The peace and stability of this country,such as it is, is only guaranteed by the presence and vigilence of the Gardai and the Defence forces! Some may scoff at this,but very few people realise the amount of work dealing with subversion that went on, and still goes on, unseen by the public!
The subversive threat is by no means gone away and to imagine so, gives the best support to those who would gladly go back to old habits!!
The economic and political distress this country is in gives the subversives the golden opportunity to recruit from, and gain support from, the dissaffected and impressionable members of our population!
Strip the Military of any more manpower or resourses and we leave our selves open to the situation Britain found itself in in the Falklands! they took away the military support and the Argentinians took it as an invitation to waltz in!
Yes, there are certain functions which absorb a lot of the Military budget, which could be tendered to civilian operators!! and installations which need to be trimmed, but we have to have a credible force acting as a deterent to any internal terrorist threat!
Look at the number of improvised explosive devices being used by criminal gangs, and dealt with by the Army, in the last number of years....where do you think that expertise to make them and supply them came from??
If you want peace ... prepare for war!

Leadership

The Army needs more money spending on it if anything, its not fit for any role apart from home defense (and guerrilla tactics only), it could also support larger UN operations like sending a transport/infantry unit supporting other forces but anything else is not possible. Even in a home defense role there are only a handful of countries that we could defend against anyway so we might as well rely on the US/UK for our home defense.

So unless we increase the spend on the Army to make it somewhat useful we might as well cut the funding drastically. 1 regular brigade and two reserve brigades so we maintain the home defense and reduce costs.

Dempo1

Be ready for a hammering at the slightest suggestion of army cutbacks and the need for it in the first place.

I am not at all convinced about the need for the army in its current format, i agree we require coast guard defense and rescue so there are some merits for an air corps but an army?

I am quite cynical about what role the army fulfills and whilst it might seem unfair, all i can see the army fulfill is cash in transit duties, expensive over seas UN Missions and more recently clearing of snow duties. Some might say there was a need for such a service during the troubles in the north and i tend to agree but equally and as in most operations the Gardai maintain a lead/supervisory role. It would make far more sense to increase an armed Garda force to manage subversive activities etc.

I am not entirely sure how much the PDF force costs to maintain but i would suspect it is massive, maintaining barracks, equipment ongoing training etc.

I was attacked in other threads for raising the touchy subject of the Army's golf course at the curragh where fast sums are spent yearly to maintain it despite it being on a sporting lease. No doubt more less than objective comments will follow my contribution.

Finally, whilst i admire and respect all the work the army has done during the cold spell, there vast presence on the streets, helping out, clearing snow, helping those stranded etc begged the question, what do army personnel do beyond helping out in difficult cold snaps and how are so many personnel suddenly available to assist?

Amhran Nua

Leadership wrote: »

Even in a home defense role there are only a handful of countries that we could defend against anyway so we might as well rely on the US/UK for our home defense.

Good thing nobody is poised on the brink of invading Ireland then. I will say this though, as far as I'm aware the Defence forces have been a model of austerity all through the "boom", reducing numbers and working smarter. I was particularly impressed at equipment procurement, which is mostly second hand but still extremely modern stuff from other European forces, bought at very reasonable prices.

Dempo1 wrote:

Finally, whilst i admire and respect all the work the army has done during the cold spell, there vast presence on the streets, helping out, clearing snow, helping those stranded etc begged the question, what do army personnel do beyond helping out in difficult cold snaps and how are so many personnel suddenly available to assist?

Perhaps its better to have them and not need them, than to need them and not have them?

Euroland

wylo wrote: »

Do you think it would be worth it to implement a complete restructure ? Im talking about cutting it down massively ,like 50% , perhaps things like bringing down a massive amount of staff to part time positions, bringing down some to a sort of unemployed/on call(if still unemployed) type position. Perhaps even scrap the foreign trips altogether.

+1, fully agree

Welease

Dempo1 wrote: »

i agree we require coast guard defense and rescue so there are some merits for an air corps but an army?

As far as I am aware, search and rescue has been outsourced since 2001 to CHC.. I think we pay in the order to 50 million per year for the service.
http://www.chcsar.com/

Permabear

This post has been deleted.

ArphaRima

I have to say I am 100% for Ireland reducing costs at the moment but we have to be careful what we wish for.

With all this talk of sovereignty and how it is to be diluted by the IMF, surely people can see that the self-determination of a people must be protected.

The Irish people and government have no interest in projecting power. We have a very modest armed force as it is.

My 1st point being that we ever did come under pressure from an armed nation (no matter how far into the future one needs to look)then we would need a core of trained and experienced personnel to build on.

We currently have less than 10,000 personnel. That's across 3 services - Army, Navy and Air Corps. I think that is about as small as a specialist core should be.

This world is not as nice a place as we would like right now.
Immediate issues for Ireland as I understand them are territorial protection of our vast oceanic area, republican dissidents, UN missions (for diplomatic reasons as well as being caring/responsible world citizens) Search and Rescue, disaster assistance etc.

I dont work for nor do I know anyone who does work for the defence establishment.
I we are to debate this lets do it with rational argument. Not tabloid-headline rabble-rousing 50%-cut shouts.

BeeDI

JCMM1 wrote: »

The peace and stability of this country,such as it is, is only guaranteed by the presence and vigilence of the Gardai and the Defence forces! Some may scoff at this,but very few people realise the amount of work dealing with subversion that went on, and still goes on, unseen by the public!
The subversive threat is by no means gone away and to imagine so, gives the best support to those who would gladly go back to old habits!!
The economic and political distress this country is in gives the subversives the golden opportunity to recruit from, and gain support from, the dissaffected and impressionable members of our population!
Strip the Military of any more manpower or resourses and we leave our selves open to the situation Britain found itself in in the Falklands! they took away the military support and the Argentinians took it as an invitation to waltz in!
Yes, there are certain functions which absorb a lot of the Military budget, which could be tendered to civilian operators!! and installations which need to be trimmed, but we have to have a credible force acting as a deterent to any internal terrorist threat!
Look at the number of improvised explosive devices being used by criminal gangs, and dealt with by the Army, in the last number of years....where do you think that expertise to make them and supply them came from??
If you want peace ... prepare for war!

The greatest subversive threat to this state in the past 15 years, was taking place in the banks and the offices of the financial regulator and the DOF:mad: Army should be given a role in rounding them up and interning the whole lot of them in the Curragh, as it seem the legal system is incapable of pinning anything on them which lock them up.

Dempo1

BeeDI wrote: »

The greatest subversive threat to this state in the past 15 years, was taking place in the banks and the offices of the financial regulator and the DOF:mad: Army should be given a role in rounding them up and interning the whole lot of them in the Curragh, as it seem the legal system is incapable of pinning anything on them which lock them up.

Absolutely the best suggestion i have heard for use of the curragh camp, only problem, most of the personnel at the curragh camp appear to spend most of their time Playing golf on their illustrious course!

I heard during the week a new museum as opened at the curragh camp! very apt for a relic of times past!

Coillte_Bhoy

BeeDI wrote: »

The greatest subversive threat to this state in the past 15 years, was taking place in the banks and the offices of the financial regulator and the DOF:mad: Army should be given a role in rounding them up and interning the whole lot of them in the Curragh, as it seem the legal system is incapable of pinning anything on them which lock them up.

Right...and how exactly would this have worked?

MonkieSocks

JCMM1 wrote: »

Britain found itself in in the Falklands! they took away the military support and the Argentinians took it as an invitation to waltz in!

Hope the Argies invade us soon.............at least we will have a better Football Team then.

Looking forward to seeing Lional and the rest of them in the Aviva :rolleyes:

Sleepy

If the army are such a patriotic bunch why did we never have a coup when the government of the day were ignoring the democratic wishes of their people? e.g. not holding by-elections, signing deals the country can't even hope to meet.

later12

Sleepy wrote: »

If the army are such a patriotic bunch why did we never have a coup when the government of the day were ignoring the democratic wishes of their people? e.g. not holding by-elections, signing deals the country can't even hope to meet.

ignoring what democratic wish? the Government were lawfully elected to office by us, the people. They have a mandate, whether you like it or not.

Rob A. Bank

Perhaps we should follow the example of Iceland, considering that financially we are on parallel courses already, which maintains no standing army, navy or air force.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Military_of_Iceland

ei.sdraob

Spudmonkey wrote: »

Careful ei.sdraob. You'll be the target of a hate campaign around these parts with talk like that.

well apparently the justification for having an army is to deal with "subversive" elements and to bring in peace.

since getting rid of the state or the army is not an option for most people
then we should make better use of them and get value for our spent money

it seems the Gardai are not able to deal with these "elements" in Limerick, then maybe the Army could be used to police these areas which already resemble the nice parts of Baghdad

ROCKMAN

Was going to post this as a bit of tongue and cheek , but after thinking about it ,it may have something......
with the ideas for recovery and welfare cuts threads in mind , Could we try kill two birds with the one stone . National service for your dole payments . Christ the more I think about it, the ARMY could replace FAS ,they are suppose to have great training courses already in place .

edit... and barracks living could help reduce rent allowance big time..

later12

ROCKMAN wrote: »

Was going to post this as a bit of tongue and cheek , but after thinking about it ,it may have something......
with the ideas for recovery and welfare cuts threads in mind , Could we try kill two birds with the one stone . National service for your dole payments . Christ the more I think about it, the ARMY could replace FAS ,they are suppose to have great training courses already in place .

edit... and barracks living could help reduce rent allowance big time..

Yes but it wouldn't really change dole numbers since you'd be putting the army, effectively, on the dole.

It would just serve to cut army salary costs.

Japer

Rob A. Bank wrote: »

Perhaps we should follow the example of Iceland, considering that financially we are on parallel courses already, which has maintains no standing army, navy or air force.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Military_of_Iceland

If Sinn Fein are in government ( possibly with a coalition of labour / left wing people ) .....would Sinn Fein still have its military wing, and could it call it / revive it to protect the citizens of the country anyway?
It can keep the law + order when nobody will lend us money anymore and govt spending will be the same as tax receipts.
Someone will have to keep people in the country from escaping.

DaSilva

JCMM1 wrote: »

The peace and stability of this country,such as it is, is only guaranteed by the presence and vigilence of the Gardai and the Defence forces! Some may scoff at this,but very few people realise the amount of work dealing with subversion that went on, and still goes on, unseen by the public!
The subversive threat is by no means gone away and to imagine so, gives the best support to those who would gladly go back to old habits!!
The economic and political distress this country is in gives the subversives the golden opportunity to recruit from, and gain support from, the dissaffected and impressionable members of our population!
Strip the Military of any more manpower or resourses and we leave our selves open to the situation Britain found itself in in the Falklands! they took away the military support and the Argentinians took it as an invitation to waltz in!
Yes, there are certain functions which absorb a lot of the Military budget, which could be tendered to civilian operators!! and installations which need to be trimmed, but we have to have a credible force acting as a deterent to any internal terrorist threat!
Look at the number of improvised explosive devices being used by criminal gangs, and dealt with by the Army, in the last number of years....where do you think that expertise to make them and supply them came from??
If you want peace ... prepare for war!

I am not yet decided whether to be for or against military spending in Ireland, but if this is argument in favour of spending, then you are going to have to do better. Boogey man stories haven't worked on most since they were 5 years old, I don't know if its contempt or ignorance, but "The subversive threat.." is in my opinion almost offensive, why? To think that the public is stupid enough to swallow a boogey man story. Yeah it may be true, but it is loaded with contempt.

There are countries with virtually no military that have not suffered the fate of the Falklands. Iceland is one, along with plenty other, small nations.

Japer

ROCKMAN wrote: »

National service for your dole payments . Christ the more I think about it, the ARMY could replace FAS ,they are suppose to have great training courses already in place .

edit... and barracks living could help reduce rent allowance big time..

+1. Does Germany still require about 6 months or a years compulsory national service from those males aged about 18 ?

Either way, I am sure spending on the army could be shaved 30% , same as most government departments.

RobbieTheRobber

Japer wrote: »

If Sinn Fein are in government ( possibly with a coalition of labour / left wing people ) .....would Sinn Fein still have its military wing, and could it call it / revive it to protect the citizens of the country anyway?
It can keep the law + order when nobody will lend us money anymore and govt spending will be the same as tax receipts.
Someone will have to keep people in the country from escaping.

Sinn fein are a political party.

The IRA disbanded in 2005
http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2005/jul/28/northernireland.devolution

I wonder what are fine gael and Fianna Fails origins, how might those two parties have come about. Hmmmm

RobbieTheRobber

Japer wrote: »

+1. Does Germany still require about 6 months or a years compulsory national service from those males aged about 18 ?

Either way, I am sure spending on the army could be shaved 30% , same as most government departments.

I think believe germany is to end its conscription in 2011 and have a standng army of about 180,000.

bleg

donegalfella wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

You need guns to help out in floods and snow.

baalthor

Rob A. Bank wrote: »

Perhaps we should follow the example of Iceland, considering that financially we are on parallel courses already, which maintains no standing army, navy or air force.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Military_of_Iceland

But it is a member of the NATO alliance so it's defence needs are looked after by the other NATO countries.

During WWII they started off neutral but the British and later the US arrived and Iceland "joined" the Allies ...
British: "Hello we're the British, we're here to help you against the Germans"
Iceland: "Er, well we don't really nee.."
British: "Great! we'll put our army over there then!"

EKRIUQ

The Army lost a lot of respect over the deafness claims, the general public really only then found out what the Irish army is really about.

yermanoffthetv

DaSilva wrote: »

I am not yet decided whether to be for or against military spending in Ireland, but if this is argument in favour of spending, then you are going to have to do better. Boogey man stories haven't worked on most since they were 5 years old, I don't know if its contempt or ignorance, but "The subversive threat.." is in my opinion almost offensive, why? To think that the public is stupid enough to swallow a boogey man story. Yeah it may be true, but it is loaded with contempt.

There are countries with virtually no military that have not suffered the fate of the Falklands. Iceland is one, along with plenty other, small nations.

What about the lads in Louth cought with a mortar in the boot of their car several days ago? :rolleyes: Just ignoring all the people theyve helped and the dangerous work theyve done overseas for a sec, If you wind down the army youll have to start arming more Gardai to take over their functions, something Id rather not see happening. On top of that youll be replacing a professional multifunctional organization with multiple single pourpose civilian ones, some of which are only voulantary (Civil defence,coastguard, air ambulance,Customs, police etc.) The CHC fiasco with the coastguard tender shows that it might not necessarily be a cheaper option. Just something to keep in mind, concidering their budget isnt even 1% of GDP.

recedite

BeeDI wrote: »

The greatest subversive threat to this state in the past 15 years, was taking place in the banks and the offices of the financial regulator and the DOF:mad: Army should be given a role in rounding them up and interning the whole lot of them in the Curragh, as it seem the legal system is incapable of pinning anything on them which lock them up.

Plus we will need the Army afterwards for the firing squads.

Rob A. Bank wrote: »

Perhaps we should follow the example of Iceland, considering that financially we are on parallel courses already, which maintains no standing army, navy or air force.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Military_of_Iceland

But perhaps they are our natural enemy? I see they still maintain a force of Vikings, just waiting for their next chance to strike.:eek:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vikingasveitin

Yitzhak Rabin

Our defence budget for last year was around 700 million. Sure its a lot, but in the grand scheme of things its a pittance of the budget. Disbanding our DF would be a purely a political ploy, and not a genuine effort to save money.

The thing about an army is, its like an insurance policy. Its there for when something goes wrong in the country, then the army can fill the breach.

A lot of the work the army does is something that you won't see. Anyone who has taken money out of the atm, the likelihood is, it was delivered there safely by the DF. Last year alone there were over 200 call outs of the EOD(Explosive Ordnance Disposal) teams. Of those call outs about 70 were viable devices. Thats a lot of peoples lives, and property that were potentially saved. Theres a constant armed presence in Portlaise prison where the countries most dangerous prisoners are contained.

The navy alone has intercepted over 1.7 Billion worth of illegal drugs coming into the country. A huge amount of money is saved by the fishery protection offered by the DF. The Air corps provide an air ambulance service. Just last week two lives were saved by this service. Last year 80 air ambulance missions were carried out.

Then overseas we provide invaluable support to troubled nations. We are recognised as an extremely professional and effective peace keeping force. Also, its worth noting that the UN pays the government for soldiers and equipment, so UN missions do not cost the state money, and allow our army to keep current and well practiced.

During the last decade, or so called boom times, when the public sector as a whole swelled and spent extravagantly, the DF reduced its numbers, modernised its equipment (paid for by selling off properties) and reformed work practices. The DF is seen as a model organisation for its leading HR practices, care of personnel, reduction in waste, both financially and in literal terms. In the coming years if the public service is to reform, they could do well to look to the defence forces as a place to see how actual reform looks. The organisation is unrecognisable from 20 years ago. The money we do get, we spend very well. We are always in the bottom three for defence expenditure, yet we manage to be in the top 3 per capita for troops serving overseas.

Also, I don't think the argument that other groups could fulfil the DF's roles better hold water. If you were to hand over the job to An Garda Síochana you would not save money. A member of the armed AGS units earns far far more than a soldier in the army. Also they do not have the benefit of a 6 decades of overseas service. Why bother adding bureaucracy and red tape by having 10 different organisations doing 10 different jobs, when the DF can do them all?

Is there room to improve and provide even more value for money? Absolutely, and I guarantee that the DF will, as usual, be at the front of any public sector reform. One thing about the DF is when they are told to do something, they do it, as is evidenced by the fact that they are the only part of the public service who actually reformed through the benchmarking years. Is there a case to disband the army? I don't think so anyway...

(Obviously I am a member of the DF, but I don't represent them in any official capacity, I'm just a soldier who is proud of the army)

lucianot

MonkieSocks wrote: »

Hope the Argies invade us soon.............at least we will have a better Football Team then.

Looking forward to seeing Lional and the rest of them in the Aviva :rolleyes:

No problem, we are a couple of thousands already

Slightly off topic: Hey, we took back the Malvinas not because the English took away the defence forces but because the military government was in desperately need of a trick to stay in power. The islands were left unprotected for several years before the war and relations with the kelpers were quite friendly at the moment.

JamesBond2010

EKRIUQ wrote: »

The Army lost a lot of respect over the deafness claims, the general public really only then found out what the Irish army is really about.

Sorry What?????

Japer

yermanoffthetv wrote: »

What about the lads in Louth cought with a mortar in the boot of their car several days ago?

You mean we need to spens almost 1% of gdp just to keep tabs on a couple of "lads" ? Is'nt that the Garda's job anyway ?
The army deafness scandal showed that most of the people in the army at the time were on the make i.e. milk the system for all its worth.

OhNoYouDidn't

donegalfella wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

Counter Terrorism
Bomb Disposal
Disaster Relief
Overseas Aid Missions
Defence of the State
Intellegence Gathering

etc.

RobbieTheRobber

Japer wrote: »

You mean we need to spens almost 1% of gdp just to keep tabs on a couple of "lads" ? Is'nt that the Garda's job anyway ?
The army deafness scandal showed that most of the people in the army at the time were on the make i.e. milk the system for all its worth.

It showed no such thing, evidence please?
Do you know the figures for army deafness claims, can you point em any links? (Seeing as your citing how rampant this was)
Such as number who claimed, and then this number as a percentage of overall enlisted men.

senordingdong

A tricky one indeed.
I wouldn't disband it but I don't see the need for it in it's current form.

To many the army just represents political posturing.

The Icelandic model is a very good one to adopt.

I would have the Air Corp and Navy merged into one larger, better co-ordinated coast gaurd. And either have the troops of the army inegrated as a ground force to stop drugs and contraband entering the country through the sea and air ports.

Or...

Have the troops absorbed into the ranks of the armed gardaí.

Imo this would cut red tape as we have two (sometimes more) organisations co-ordinating on some tasks, and this would make for smoother runnings of these ops.

I mean don't see why the bomob disposal unit couldn't done blue uniforms and put AGS insignia on their vehicles.

Dempo1

Had my head bitten off for daring to question the Need for the Army funding a private golf course at the curragh camp, I'm not going to get into a debate about deafness claims etc however it is time to face up to reality. We can no longer afford the defense force as it stands.

Sure, i see the work the coast guard and indeed more recently the Bomb disposal team does and there are merits for maintaining specialist services however the notion we need to subsidize a defense force to partake in UN Missions which achieve little apart from expense is just plain nonsense. We are meant to be neutral and fair enough its honorable for our forces to be involved in Peace keeping duties but no mater what way it is viewed, our neutrality is compromised by getting involved in such missions not withstanding the inordinate expense involved which quite frankly we can ill afford. Whilst a little off topic, there is also the substantial bonus payments defense force members get when on over seas missions.

In reality other countries merge all specialist units such as bomb disposal, Terrorism etc under one umbrella, there police forces.

I managed to offend some in another thread when i dared begged the question about the sudden availability of DF personnel to clear snow, i asked how come they were suddenly available en mass and what was it they actually do during non emergencies.

Lets get real here, we don't need a DF, we can afford a DF and i am sure our beloved banks will find a way to get their funds into ATM's without DF escorts.

OhNoYouDidn't

UN operations don't cost the state a cent. They are funded by the, well UN...

Dempo1

OhNoYouDidn't wrote: »

UN operations don't cost the state a cent. They are funded by the, well UN...

I will take this statement with a large grain of salt! It is simply not possible the tax payer does not bare some costs associated with UN operations. There is also a myth about the Banks absorbing the full cost of cash in transit operations, this issue has been raised over the years and at dail level, the Banks only pay a stipend towards the cost and it covers a fraction of the real cost!

Poccington

EKRIUQ wrote: »

The Army lost a lot of respect over the deafness claims, the general public really only then found out what the Irish army is really about.

Lol.

At the time, the DF refused to issue personal hearing protection to troops and troops that actually showed a bit of initiative by buying their own weren't allowed wear them.

Next time I'm on an 81mm Mortar shoot or a Combined Weapons Shoot I'll let you take my place on the gunline, with no hearing protection and we'll see how ya get on.

Rob67

Japer wrote: »

The army deafness scandal showed that most of the people in the army at the time were on the make i.e. milk the system for all its worth.

I generally wouldn't bother replying to something as blatantly false as this 'statement' .... but I couldn't help myself....

I was one of those 'people' in the DF during the deafness claims, I got some amount of ribbing for it too, even though I had perfect hearing at the time! (going deaf now but that's age and genetics for you!)

A quick check on google came up with this:

http://www.independent.ie/national-news/army-deafness-saga-finally-nears-an-end-2029321.html

As you can see it wasn't 'most' of the DF claiming, in fact, a very small percentage of those who had served during this period actually made a claim. Most of the claims came from ex-members, some of whom had served in the 50's.

Personal anecdote: I served in the FCA (as it was was then) as an artilleryman during the early eighties, on the shoots with 120mm mortars (really loud bangs from them I can tell you) I was on hearing protection consisted of fingers in ears or cotton wool or pieces of 4x2 rifle cleaning cloth, one wag decided to wear a pair of luminous yellow ear muffs from his private sector job and was told to remove them as the were not 'military issue'!

I really love people like you, no seriously I do! You make statements without once checking the facts and instead promote fiction as reality, JK Rowling better watch out...

hmmm

As long as we have a subversive threat, and as long as we have recent memory of a subversive threat, we should have a standing army which can enforce the state's monopoly on armed force in this country. Several times in our history we have had to call in the army to deal with or suppress an IRA threat. At less than a billion a year, considering we spend 50 billion a year in total, I think the armed forces in this country are good value - in particular we probably underspend on coastal protection.

canttakeajoke

This is just an idea but maybe cutting the banking staff of Anglo in half would save more money than cutting the army in half??

Just on the UN missions, don't the UN pay for those?
On the cash in transit, don't the banks pay for those?
On the PDF, they are volunteers who get paid buttons

Le King

OhNoYouDidn't wrote: »

Counter Terrorism
Bomb Disposal
Disaster Relief
Overseas Aid Missions
Defence of the State
Intellegence Gathering

etc.

Some of my dearest friends are in the army but come on, if they are going to be defending this country, I'll move. Defence of the State? If some nation came in to invade this island they could take the Republic in under a day.

The Army is useful for transporting money, peacekeeping and bomb disposal. Not something I would be paying guys money to do a duty on abandoned hospitals and the likes.

If the general army was as hard as the Ranger Wing I'd be happy. The Fitness test requires little effort.

senordingdong

Dempo1 wrote: »

Lets get real here, we don't need a DF, we can afford a DF and i am sure our beloved banks will find a way to get their funds into ATM's without DF escorts.

This is something that isn't particularly clear to me.

If it isn't paid for by the banks, then this is public money being spent protecting private money. I'm sure someone could find some legal issue with this.
But if the banks do pay for it, then they are essentially renting the countries army...can't imagine that's legal either.

Anyway, the only point I can agree with that are in favour of keeping the army, are bomb disposal and intelligance.
I see no reason why these jobs can't be absorbed by the Gardaí.

AlphaBeagle

We need a standing Army no doubt, but why do we need to spend additional funds on maintaining a reserve force I think they call it the FCA?

My impression of them is they are under trained, under equipped through no fault of their own and looked down at by thier professional counter-parts.

Should the goverment just dis-band them and use the money saved to fund addiitonal equipment & manpower for the professional soliders?

bonzos

Why are the army not out clearing the ice in the school yards before the schools open in the mornings???or is it too dangerous like cutting the grass in the barracks:rolleyes:

Leadership

AlphaBeagle wrote: »

Should the goverment just dis-band them and use the money saved to fund addiitonal equipment & manpower for the professional soliders?

Short answer is no! The cost of running a part time reserve is relatively cheap and if you disband them you would not get much in the way of decent equipment or a professional force increase. Also why increase the professional force? Without decent equipment all we will produce is full time cannon fodder. By decent equipment I mean a complete overhaul, heavy lift aircraft, helicopters (attack and transport), fast jets, mobile artillery, air defense etc etc which I think we can all agree will not happen for the foreseeable future.

Its the same as the golf course, for most roles in the forces its a really demanding job even in piece time and as the old saying goes "Work hard, Play harder". They need little bonuses like sports and social activities as well as adventure training trips like mountaineering and canoeing to develop leadership and teamwork. Its money well spent.

Holybejaysus

bonzos wrote: »

Why are the army not out clearing the ice in the school yards before the schools open in the mornings???or is it too dangerous like cutting the grass in the barracks:rolleyes:

They have-this is just some of the work the DF has been engaged in over the last few weeks.

http://www.facebook.com/pages/Irish-Defence-Forces/169367391165?v=wall

Would you like some cream with that humble pie?

ART6

Apparently (today's newspapers) the army is going to be sent into Lebanon as part of a UN initiative. That isn't going to do much for dealing with subversives who threaten Ireland, is it?

Oh, of course. It is Ireland "punching above it's weight". again, I suppose. Or is it our politicians off on another grand parade?

This bloody government is fast turning me into a troll -- One that hides under bridges and eats politicians:(