Best time to calve Autumn calvers

Dunedin

I have a few heifers which I'm planning to AI soon for autumn calving.

Am I a bit late or when is ideal time for autumn calvers to be calving?

blue5000

I reckon July is best time to calve them, main reason is if they are dry in August summer mastitis can be a problem.

Dunedin

blue5000 wrote: »

I reckon July is best time to calve them, main reason is if they are dry in August summer mastitis can be a problem.

I would say that this is much too early for autumn calvers. I would have thought more along the lines of sept/oct.

I'm a spring calver myself so interested in the views of the experienced autumn calvers??????

towzer2010

I am going into some autumn calvers myself this year and on advise from a local guy doing it for a good few years I am going to calve them down in september and october.

He thinks calves are hardier when calved in sept/oct and cows calve easier. (as long as they are restricted a bit in august i suppose)

leg wax

blue5000 wrote: »

I reckon July is best time to calve them, main reason is if they are dry in August summer mastitis can be a problem.

yes i agree with blue, the heifer will then have plenty of time to come around for the next season and you will still need to be lucky to get her calving for sept.also the july born weanling will be gone out of your yard in june at a top price because no one else has weanlings out.

reilig

I like to have them calving in September or October for 2 reasons:

1. They are out when calving which normally leads to an easier calving, healthier weather for calves and for cows.

2. By the time the cow and calf go in at the end of October, the calf will be stronger and he will be less prone to indoor diseases - mainly scour, blood scours and pnumonia. he will be srrong enough to go through creep gates and lie in the bedded area which will also be a lot healthier for him.

However, I'm coming to realise that with the high prices of ration and nuts as well as the cost of keeping a calf and a post calved (more hungry) cow, autumn calving is at least €100 per head less profitable than spring calving if you have continental breeds.
(well I found a €100 difference last year and ration is more expensive this year)

tismesoitis

leg wax wrote: »

yes i agree with blue, the heifer will then have plenty of time to come around for the next season and you will still need to be lucky to get her calving for sept.also the july born weanling will be gone out of your yard in june at a top price because no one else has weanlings out.

+1

LivInt20

September October is best time to calve Autumn calvers. Start your breeding now. Sell in August.

leg wax

LivInt20 wrote: »

September October is best time to calve Autumn calvers. Start your breeding now. Sell in August.

why sell in august?

leg wax

reilig wrote: »

I like to have them calving in September or October for 2 reasons:

1. They are out when calving which normally leads to an easier calving, healthier weather for calves and for cows.

2. By the time the cow and calf go in at the end of October, the calf will be stronger and he will be less prone to indoor diseases - mainly scour, blood scours and pnumonia. he will be srrong enough to go through creep gates and lie in the bedded area which will also be a lot healthier for him.

However, I'm coming to realise that with the high prices of ration and nuts as well as the cost of keeping a calf and a post calved (more hungry) cow, autumn calving is at least €100 per head less profitable than spring calving if you have continental breeds.
(well I found a €100 difference last year and ration is more expensive this year)

so did your autumn weanlings only make 100euro more than the spring born or am i missing something.

BeeDI

Prompted by this thread, I asked a guy I know who does all autumn calving what time he considered to be the best time!
Quick as a flash, he says "around ten o'clock in the morning" :D

LivInt20

leg wax wrote: »

why sell in august?

Best prices, before glut of cattle come out for sales in September

reilig

leg wax wrote: »

so did your autumn weanlings only make 100euro more than the spring born or am i missing something.

Think about it logically, my autumn born weinlings have to be housed, bedded, fed etc before any of my spring weinlings are even born. They are hungrier weinlings, they need creep many months before the spring calves need it. Their mothers are hungrier and need more silage because thay are suckling calves. This costs at least 200 euro more than a spring calf that is let out on grass 2 days after birth, only tested once in the herd, less vet bills because the calf is on grass etc.

My autumn born weinlings did not on average make 200 euro more than my spring weinlings. (Many did not make more than 100. My autumn weinlings were all CHX and around 400kg when they were sold in september. They averaged less than Eur2 per kg (Prices for export weinlings fell in september and have remained low since with the exception of BB).

In short, I made more profit from my spring born calves because they were let out on grass after being born. I had no bedding cost for them, low vet bills for them, only 1 herd test for them, they ate less ration and I spent less of my own time working with them. Its a no-brainer for me to have more of my cows as spring calvers.

Just because you can get Eur900 for a september born calf and Eur700 for a March born calf does not mean that you made more money out of the September born calf.

blue5000

Hi Dunedin

how old and what weight are the heifers? Would it be worth leaving it so they calve in jan/feb 2012? We are not that far away from 2013 when who knows what will be in store for us? My point is grass is the cheapest feed for cattle.

Bigbird1

reilig wrote: »

Think about it logically, my autumn born weinlings have to be housed, bedded, fed etc before any of my spring weinlings are even born. They are hungrier weinlings, they need creep many months before the spring calves need it. Their mothers are hungrier and need more silage because thay are suckling calves. This costs at least 200 euro more than a spring calf that is let out on grass 2 days after birth, only tested once in the herd, less vet bills because the calf is on grass etc.

My autumn born weinlings did not on average make 200 euro more than my spring weinlings. (Many did not make more than 100. My autumn weinlings were all CHX and around 400kg when they were sold in september. They averaged less than Eur2 per kg (Prices for export weinlings fell in september and have remained low since with the exception of BB).

In short, I made more profit from my spring born calves because they were let out on grass after being born. I had no bedding cost for them, low vet bills for them, only 1 herd test for them, they ate less ration and I spent less of my own time working with them. Its a no-brainer for me to have more of my cows as spring calvers.

Just because you can get Eur900 for a september born calf and Eur700 for a March born calf does not mean that you made more money out of the September born calf.

I agree 100% with you reilig, i honestly cant understand lads autumn calving simply because they get a heavier calf,We keep 18 cows calving in Feb/Mar crossed to AI blue and char bulls,we have put calves into 420kgs by da first wk of oct(not a whole lot of meal feeding)no magic the calves wud be good U/E grades with plenty of growth,cows also have plenty of milk a growthy calf needs milk and they will make use of it.
With autumn calving i find the calf is restricted as he will not recieve the same amount of milk from the cow unless you want to load her with meal but then you have the cost issue,As reilig stated you can let the calf out 2 days after birth this is where it wants to be and of coarse no bedding or feeding indoors.
I believe when the evenings begin to get longer thats when the calves should start to appear

leg wax

reilig wrote: »

Think about it logically, my autumn born weinlings have to be housed, bedded, fed etc before any of my spring weinlings are even born. They are hungrier weinlings, they need creep many months before the spring calves need it. Their mothers are hungrier and need more silage because thay are suckling calves. This costs at least 200 euro more than a spring calf that is let out on grass 2 days after birth, only tested once in the herd, less vet bills because the calf is on grass etc.

My autumn born weinlings did not on average make 200 euro more than my spring weinlings. (Many did not make more than 100. My autumn weinlings were all CHX and around 400kg when they were sold in september. They averaged less than Eur2 per kg (Prices for export weinlings fell in september and have remained low since with the exception of BB).

In short, I made more profit from my spring born calves because they were let out on grass after being born. I had no bedding cost for them, low vet bills for them, only 1 herd test for them, they ate less ration and I spent less of my own time working with them. Its a no-brainer for me to have more of my cows as spring calvers.

Just because you can get Eur900 for a september born calf and Eur700 for a March born calf does not mean that you made more money out of the September born calf.

why do the autumn need more creep days than the spring born,they need a bit of meal when in for the winter but not a lot,i know it all adds up, why do your autumn calves need 2 tb tests .

reilig

leg wax wrote: »

why do the autumn need more creep days than the spring born,they need a bit of meal when in for the winter but not a lot,i know it all adds up, why do your autumn calves need 2 tb tests .

My annual herd test is just after christmas - when I am off work and cattle are housed. Autumn calved weinlings will need creep from may or early june onwards because if they don't get it they will be tall and lanky rather than muscley and they won't be suitable for export buyers - the target market for weinlings 10 to 12 months old (also, the best paying market) In may/June, the autumn calved cow starts to cut back on milk, yes, the calf will be getting grass, but you have to suppliment the cut back in milk with ration.

reilig

blue5000 wrote: »

My point is grass is the cheapest feed for cattle.

At the end of the day, blue's point above is correct. We live in a country that can easily produce grass unlike much of our competition in the beef market. The more use that you can make of grass, the less costs you will have and ultimately the more profit you will have.

adne

reilig wrote: »

At the end of the day, blue's point above is correct. We live in a country that can easily produce grass unlike much of our competition in the beef market. The more use that you can make of grass, the less costs you will have and ultimately the more profit you will have.

Is this not a contradiction to what you are saying earlier in the threads.
To Me an Autumn Born Calf (Oct/Nov) is better positioned to make use of grass from (Mar to Sept) than a spring born calf (Feb/Mar) which will only really utilise the grass at an optimum from (June to Oct)

blue5000

Adne, what do you feed the oct/nov calving cow from nov to march?

reilig

adne wrote: »

Is this not a contradiction to what you are saying earlier in the threads.
To Me an Autumn Born Calf (Oct/Nov) is better positioned to make use of grass from (Mar to Sept) than a spring born calf (Feb/Mar) which will only really utilise the grass at an optimum from (June to Oct)

It is a contradiction to what I was saying a few months back because I got stung badly with them this year. I had the best and heaviest Autumn born weinlings that I ever had and I got the worst prices ever. So did everyone else that had autumn born weinlings. Prices were around Eur 2 per kg live weight, but this was just break even point with the autumn fed ones. My spring born calves left far more money to me per head. The cost of inputs and the sale prices speak for themselves. Then factor in the time that I spend myself.

adne

blue5000 wrote: »

Adne, what do you feed the oct/nov calving cow from nov to march?

Silage - which costs more than grass - :)

leg wax

reilig wrote: »

It is a contradiction to what I was saying a few months back because I got stung badly with them this year. I had the best and heaviest Autumn born weinlings that I ever had and I got the worst prices ever. So did everyone else that had autumn born weinlings. Prices were around Eur 2 per kg live weight, but this was just break even point with the autumn fed ones. My spring born calves left far more money to me per head. The cost of inputs and the sale prices speak for themselves. Then factor in the time that I spend myself.

bring the weanlings out in june when the shippers need them to fill lorries for the boat, without trying to be smug i learnt this lesson the year before kept them till sept got 2.20 a kilo never again, if i am correct i suggested to anyone with a weanling 300kilos to sell him in june that it would be no advantage to hold on to them,and it will be the same next year.i am tired of saying this supply and demand it runs the prices that we the farmer gets, it will be no different with milk in years to come. the shippers can not keep the weanlings going out of the country with the supply that the farmers areputting out in the autumn sales they do not need to bid against each other.

pakalasa

The same goes for cull cows, June is the best time to sell them.

haybob

I don't know about that I sold 6 there about 5 weeks ago and they were on average €150 dearer that I was getting in june ??? they were heavier too but not by that much..

Hard to know about autum calves, I keep a few that remain outside all year around and i have to say they are always way healthier than the spring calves and cost less in vets, medication and general hassel but I wouldn't over feed the cows in the summer

pakalasa wrote: »

The same goes for cull cows, June is the best time to sell them.