Irish Times article last weekend

Klunk001

Did anybody see the article in last weekends Irish Time, business section. It had an interview with Irish business tycoon Martin Naughton of Glen Dimplex.
He was suggesting amonst other things, in this times of austerity, stream lining the military and getting rid of the Aer Corps all together!

After today's budget its looks like a down sizing of MATS.

Poccington

I'd say get rid of the AC and bring them into the Army and Navy as air wings of both services.

The days of the Blufftwaffe hiding in the Don have to end.

OS119

Poccington wrote: »

I'd say get rid of the AC and bring them into the Army and Navy as air wings of both services.

The days of the Blufftwaffe hiding in the Don have to end.

absolutely - UK experience has shown that the RN can provide Army support in addition to their own ASW needs, and the AAC regularly operated significant numbers numbers of Lynx and Apache helicopters for long periods of time from the Helicopter Carrier HMS Ocean and the Assault Ships HMS Albion and Bulwark.

so it wouldn't matter which service took over command of the IAC, imv the only 'absolutes' are that the Irish military has only one operator given the size of its fleet, and that it doesn't need a seperate air arm to to be that operator.

perhaps the Army would be the better choice, if only to ensure that the Bluffwaffe are significantly diluted and outnumbered ensuring that the 10 - 3, monday to thursday, 'the Don and no further' culture is killed off.

Steyr

OS119 wrote: »

absolutely - UK experience has shown that the RN can provide Army support in addition to their own ASW needs, and the AAC regularly operated significant numbers numbers of Lynx and Apache helicopters for long periods of time from the Helicopter Carrier HMS Ocean and the Assault Ships HMS Albion and Bulwark.

True but alot of mentality has to go such as Officers only flying, I believe NCO's can fly the Helo's too in the AAC?

OS119

Steyr wrote: »

True but alot of mentality has to go such as Officers only flying, I believe NCO's can fly the Helo's too in the AAC?

yup - the entry level is being a substantive L/Cpl and holding CO's recomendation for promotion to Corporal. my first flight in an AAC Lynx was flown by a Cpl - we dive bombed Sennybridge...

Delancey

The Air Corps continued existence cannot be justified - they don't even have an SAR role . Given we are an island the money they cost would be far better spent on the Naval Service ( in my humble opinion ).

Kingdom_of _oriel

delancey42 wrote: »

The Air Corps continued existence cannot be justified - they don't even have an SAR role . Given we are an island the money they cost would be far better spent on the Naval Service ( in my humble opinion ).

I think the AC still has a role but that sole role should be Army and Naval co-operation. Ground all MATS aircraft sell off the assests and either invest in second hand transports or purchase more heli's. At the moment it would make more sense to purchase more helicopters as the Army needs more training time in heli operations in preparation for future overseas operations and home service training.
Even buying the PC-9's was a huge waste of money, the AC could have soldiered on with the Marchetti's and bought a new fleet of Cessna sky Caravans or equivalent.

OS119

delancey42 wrote: »

The Air Corps continued existence cannot be justified - they don't even have an SAR role . Given we are an island the money they cost would be far better spent on the Naval Service ( in my humble opinion ).

dunno, can't say i agree.

the issue, imv, is distinguishing the functions of the AC (Maritime Patrol, SAR Top Cover, battlefield mobility, CAS/Limited strike, Intelligence-Surveilance-Recconaisance) from the way the AC operates (10-3 monday to thursday, nowhere outside the wire of Baldonnell, and with as many types as it has aircraft).

you could make a very good argument that the Army would, in its primary internal security role, be massively handicapped by not having the Cessna spotter planes, and getting rid of the heli's would see its ability to respond to problems (counter-terrorism, Counter-IED etc...) reduced to however long it takes to drive anywhere. likewise the NS, without the MPA capability of the CASA's, would be very much blundering about in the dark at 20kts, and that would have an appalling impact on the NS's ability to interdict both Drugs and Guns.

certainly the management and utilisation of the AC assets and personnel needs a good kick in the arse - and there are serious, informed people who believe that the AC is fundamentally broken and beyond repair and that another service should take charge of the AC's functions, but, imv, treating the two questions (1. what air delivered cababilities does the Irish state need?, and 2. is the AC the way to deliver those capabilities?) as one 'should we get rid of the AC?' question would be a very serious mistake.

Dempo1

Witnessing the ludicrous spectacle of a Private carry a bag of salt and dispensing particles ample for a portion of chips made me wonder is this what the army is all about. I can understand the need for cost Gard, customs control but am at a complete loss as to why we have an defense force apart from expensive UN missions that achieve little. In addition i am infuriated at the costly armed gard for cash transit, surely beefing up the armed Garda support units would be far more cost effective. The air corps does fulfill a useful role, namely coast guard duties but beyond that a waste of resources.

concussion

Your fury is misguided. The banks pay for the cash escorts and that soldier with the bag of salt is doing it because the government hasn't given other agencies the means to do it effectively. I would prefer to see only Gardaí providing CIT escort, but I would like to know how many extra bods and how much equipment they'd need to be able to take over properly - remember, the government is slashing GS numbers by 1500.

Steyr

UAV's FTW!

Dempo1

concussion wrote: »

Your fury is misguided. The banks pay for the cash escorts and that soldier with the bag of salt is doing it because the government hasn't given other agencies the means to do it effectively. I would prefer to see only Gardaí providing CIT escort, but I would like to know how many extra bods and how much equipment they'd need to be able to take over properly - remember, the government is slashing GS numbers by 1500.

Sadly complete Bollox, the banks pay a stipend towards the cost of cash in transit and this has been widely documented. The Soldier with the bag of salt was about as useless as a three legged hamster, indeed and elderly lady advised him he was wasting his time. Fair enough other agencies should have been doing this chore however it begs the question, what in fact does the army do, it amazes me that they are suddenly available during cold spells not that i object to this indeed its refreshing to see them doing something useful for a change instead of prancing around the curragh with lots of spare time to play golf at their golf course.

As for reduced GS numbers, it would appear to me since these mobile speed detection vans arrived on the scene, the Traffic corps seems to have disappeared, perhaps they could be put to better use than managing protests outside the dail.

concussion

You should check your facts before dismissing things as "complete bollox". The banks cover the full costs of the CIT escorts. The rest of your post is a complete joke - DF only available during cold weather? I suppose in the fine weather they're all off playing golf on they're privately owned, sheep proof course??? No, the only thing here that's bollox is your idea of what the DF does on a daily basis for this country.

Poccington

Dempo1 wrote: »

Sadly complete Bollox, the banks pay a stipend towards the cost of cash in transit and this has been widely documented. The Soldier with the bag of salt was about as useless as a three legged hamster, indeed and elderly lady advised him he was wasting his time. Fair enough other agencies should have been doing this chore however it begs the question, what in fact does the army do, it amazes me that they are suddenly available during cold spells not that i object to this indeed its refreshing to see them doing something useful for a change instead of prancing around the curragh with lots of spare time to play golf at their golf course.

As for reduced GS numbers, it would appear to me since these mobile speed detection vans arrived on the scene, the Traffic corps seems to have disappeared, perhaps they could be put to better use than managing protests outside the dail.

Your post is complete bollocks.

The banks cover the cost of CIT's.

Speaking from my own experience, we've done a lot more than spread a bit of salt. In the past two weeks my whole Unit has practically been running on 24 hour shift, rest off, 24 hour shift, rest off, 7 days a week. We had drivers working nearly 72 hours at one stage before being allowed rest off. All of that without any kind of overtime or allowances being paid. B

Clearing footpaths and roads, bringing nurses and doctors to work, bringing carer's to old people's homes, bringing old people who were housebound their food. In one instance, one of our drivers had to drive a dying man home as it was his final wish to die in his own home.

As for what the DF actually does, I think you answered your own question. We do our job, then we do other agencies job's when they're not upto the task.

So once again, your post is complete bollocks. Now if you wouldn't mind, this thread is about the IAC and it's contribution to the DF. If you want to talk ****e about golf courses etc. find somewhere else to do it.

<----(is so glad he never aimed for an Air Corps Cadetship....)

goldie fish

Kingdom_of _oriel wrote: »

I think the AC still has a role but that sole role should be Army and Naval co-operation. Ground all MATS aircraft sell off the assests and either invest in second hand transports or purchase more heli's. At the moment it would make more sense to purchase more helicopters as the Army needs more training time in heli operations in preparation for future overseas operations and home service training.
Even buying the PC-9's was a huge waste of money, the AC could have soldiered on with the Marchetti's and bought a new fleet of Cessna sky Caravans or equivalent.

From next year, there will be only one MATS aircraft.