Is there any future here.....help

pudser

Hi i am just wondering would it be best to up and leave this country at the moment as i am trying to see a clear future for my son as the way the country is it doesn't look like my child has any future here.

Noffles

Leave... you and your son will be apying for other people mistakes for decades... why should you???

My plans are afoot to leave also but they are having to wait until the lad finishes school in 2 years time... then it's adios!

munchkin_utd

any future where?

Ireland still has low taxes
Before this budget I pay 500Euro more a month in tax/ PRSI/ health in germany than Ireland. (i.e. Ireland is much lower, and its valid for any salary from 35k to 50k plus, about 500euro a month better off in Ireland)

That works out at 6 grand a year.
And the wife is the same. So 12 grand more paid in taxes abroad than Ireland between the 2 of us.
Abroad we already pay metered water charges, bin charges and propertry/ council tax , on top of the higher personal taxes.

In the UK they already pay sums like 4000 euro a year in tuition fees (for a university education that costs 10k plus per year to provide, and more for engineering or medicine).
In Germany its over a grand a semester

All Ireland is doing is NORMALISING, bringing itsself into line with the rest of Europe.

The doom and gloom is misplaced.

Its sad to see the end of the free-bees but its not the end of the world.

jester77

munchkin_utd wrote: »

any future where?

Ireland still has low taxes
Before this budget I pay 500Euro more a month in tax/ PRSI/ health in germany than Ireland. (i.e. Ireland is much lower, and its valid for any salary from 35k to 50k plus, about 500euro a month better off in Ireland)

That works out at 6 grand a year.
And the wife is the same. So 12 grand more paid in taxes abroad than Ireland between the 2 of us.
Abroad we already pay metered water charges, bin charges and propertry/ council tax , on top of the higher personal taxes.

In the UK they already pay sums like 4000 euro a year in tuition fees (for a university education that costs 10k plus per year to provide, and more for engineering or medicine).
In Germany its over a grand a semester

All Ireland is doing is NORMALISING, bringing itsself into line with the rest of Europe.

The doom and gloom is misplaced.

Its sad to see the end of the free-bees but its not the end of the world.

Agree with that. Had a look at the new tax calculators from yesterdays Irish budget expecting to be really shocked, but I would still have 600 extra in my pocket per month if I was in Ireland. Plus taxes are increasing everywhere. Health insurance is going up again here in Germany from January, plus probably other taxes as well. All the proposed taxes (property, water, etc) that are coming in are pretty much standard everywhere else, we even have church tax here Accommodation and utilities are pretty much the same cost as in Ireland. Some stuff may be cheaper but not cheap enough overall to counter the high tax difference.

Don't think the grass is always greener, because it's not. Plus if you move to Germany, France, UK, etc. some of your taxes will be paying off the Irish debt anyway!!

Noffles

But surely the fact that there will be NO growth for the next decade or so and no spending on any of the piss poor infrastructure, health or schools that this country wollows in...

Unless you live in a city you are going to die a slow and meaningless death in a rural disater............

And the thought of paying for everyone elses **** ups does not appeal to me...

seachto7

Think carefully before going abroad. There is a difference between "going travelling" and upping sticks with kids to live in another country.

I think it has to be better than Ireland in every way to justify the move. The novelty of sun shine and cheap meals out wears off fairly quickly. Trust me. I lived in Rome for 2 years, and would not live there again for love nor money. It's a beautiful city, but there are so many other reasons not to live there in my opinion.

Move abroad to do what is a good question. You will be working. If you are unhappy in a job in Ireland, and move abroad to do the same job, you will still be unhappy, even in the sunshine. I almost fell into that trap a few years ago, and am hopefully going to sort out the "what I am doing" part, before I ever consider a move abroad, which could happen, not because I hate Ireland, but because I always had it in me that I may move abroad eventually...

A rural life in Ireland is more appealing to me than the life I led in Rome, even when I passed the Colosseum and Vatican on the way to work everyday.

Not saying I wouldn't live in Italy again, but I could think of better places.

Do you like the cold? Bear than in mind. What we are experiencing at the moment is chicken feed compared to what you would get in Germany for the winter for example...

Do you like extreme heat? Bear that in mind if you move to Spain or Italy. Again, I had to work in Italy in 40 degrees in pants, shirt and tie some days, and I bloody hated it after a while!!

DOn't mind my rambling, just do the research. I have narrowed it down to the West of France for myself, preferably the South West, so the Basque region of France/Italy. I'll be doing my recon over the next few years.

I went to La Rochelle last year to check it out. I had done my research,and it seemed like it could potentially be a good spot to live, but in hindsight, I wouldn't live there. I hadn't considered Nantes, and that turned out to be a great city.

Jim2007

Noffles wrote: »

But surely the fact that there will be NO growth for the next decade or so and no spending on any of the piss poor infrastructure, health or schools that this country wollows in...

Out of interest how much experience have you of living abroad?

I've lived outside Ireland for over 20 years now and I have no hesitation is say that Ireland stacks up fairly well when compared with other Western European countries, even after the recent budget!

I would strongly recommend you do a lot of research before you commit your family to such a major life change, because economics will not be enough to make you happy in the long term.

Good luck with that,

Jim.

Noffles

Jim2007 wrote: »

Out of interest how much experience have you of living abroad?

I've lived outside Ireland for over 20 years now and I have no hesitation is say that Ireland stacks up fairly well when compared with other Western European countries, even after the recent budget!

I would strongly recommend you do a lot of research before you commit your family to such a major life change, because economics will not be enough to make you happy in the long term.

Good luck with that,

Jim.

Being British I'll find it easy to move back to the UK, I've done 12 years here now and have hated the last 5, the sooner I leave the better, to a town or a city in the UK.. that has decent roads and access to a city that's not 100K away on **** wannabe motorways. Maybe my mistake was moving rural but nothing could prepare me for how rural it would be...

myflipflops

Noffles wrote: »

Maybe my mistake was moving rural but nothing could prepare me for how rural it would be...

A phrase similar to what I've heard from way too many 'ex-pats' over the previous 15 months. It amazes me when people have told me 'I didn;t expect it to be so expensive/hot/backwards/boring' and many other things. How not? All the information was easy to find out beforehand with a small bit effort.

'seachto7' made a great post. Research is key. Surely it would have been very easy to find out how rural it is? Make some trips in advance, research online. talk to people living there - all easy things to discover what a place might be like.

gbee

pudser wrote: »

it doesn't look like my child has any future here.

There is no future here sadly. There are opportunities in software, engineering, bio chemistry and possibly for the entrepreneurial spirited, but it will be tough.

Probably time to follow Dell to Poland, the big problem facing us is our own sustainability as per the recent report on what was known locally all along, Mallow, Carlow, sugar production, fertilizer production, steel etc were all taken from us because it could be produced cheaper elsewhere.

Now we have shortfalls and in some cases the cheapness was only marginal or even none existent. So we have no production capacity for trading in and as the global economy crawls out of recession and the prices of oil, steel and all those mentioned rise, Ireland will not be in a position to keep up.

In historic terms, our recent event was like the 1920's financial crash, whilst the rest of the world will recover, we will soon enter the 'dust bowl' period, so whilst there will be opening markets for our produce, we won't be able to produce it to sell.

Finally, as soon as anything starts to pick up here, someone will shout that the Celtic Tiger is back and we'll get invaded again. We've probably set our destiny for another 30~40 years, just as certainly as it was set by previous governments during our isolation period 1945 to about 1970.

Noffles

myflipflops wrote: »

A phrase similar to what I've heard from way too many 'ex-pats' over the previous 15 months. It amazes me when people have told me 'I didn;t expect it to be so expensive/hot/backwards/boring' and many other things. How not? All the information was easy to find out beforehand with a small bit effort.

'seachto7' made a great post. Research is key. Surely it would have been very easy to find out how rural it is? Make some trips in advance, research online. talk to people living there - all easy things to discover what a place might be like.

All good advice and hindsight is a great thing... but irrelevant now... my mistake and now I've to deal with it

Jim2007

Noffles wrote: »

Being British I'll find it easy to move back to the UK, I've done 12 years here now and have hated the last 5, the sooner I leave the better, to a town or a city in the UK.. that has decent roads and access to a city that's not 100K away on **** wannabe motorways. Maybe my mistake was moving rural but nothing could prepare me for how rural it would be...

OK, so what you are talking about is returning to your native land and that is very different to the original OPs situation....

Jim.

Jim2007

gbee wrote: »

There is no future here sadly. There are opportunities in software, engineering, bio chemistry and possibly for the entrepreneurial spirited, but it will be tough.

Yes high value added opportunities that offer good futures for young people... in this area it a question of find skilled people rather than concern about cost, so it makes sense for a European country to develop this area...

gbee wrote: »

Probably time to follow Dell to Poland, the big problem facing us is our own sustainability as per the recent report on what was known locally all along, Mallow, Carlow, sugar production, fertilizer production, steel etc were all taken from us because it could be produced cheaper elsewhere.

Entering a low value added industry where cost is the primary determining factor for success is a sure way to have no future!

gbee wrote: »

as the global economy crawls out of recession and the prices of oil, steel and all those mentioned rise, Ireland will not be in a position to keep up.

As the world economy recovers demand for software, engineering, bio chemistry will grow and Ireland is a key player in that marked....

gbee wrote: »

In historic terms, our recent event was like the 1920's financial crash, whilst the rest of the world will recover, we will soon enter the 'dust bowl' period, so whilst there will be opening markets for our produce, we won't be able to produce it to sell.

Finally, as soon as anything starts to pick up here, someone will shout that the Celtic Tiger is back and we'll get invaded again. We've probably set our destiny for another 30~40 years, just as certainly as it was set by previous governments during our isolation period 1945 to about 1970.

Seriously! Do you think that the rest of the world has not gone though this recession as well! My employer, a Swiss financial institution, was forced to lay of 8,000 people in Switzerland alone. And unlike Ireland, unemployment and social welfare payments are limited to 18 months, after that you are forced to rely on the charity of your local community and not the state - which often means a payment of about €5 a day and being allowed to live in one of the old cold war fall out bunkers that the community owns!!!

Furthermore there is no concept of labour law here - no redundancy, no unfair dismissals, no equal pay or minimum wages! So people that lost their jobs over here were simply given their standard notice period (about 2 months) and that was it!

Good luck with that,

Jim.

pudser

Thanks so much guys it makes things a little clearer for me now,im going to do alot of research of course but in this case i will be thinking what is best for my family all round. Thanks again.

seachto7

pudser wrote: »

.....but in this case i will be thinking what is best for my family all round. Thanks again.

Thats is key. Best of luck...

Lucy Lu

16 months ago myself and my husband moved to the Middle East. We both had good jobs in Ireland but we left due to my husband wanting to further his work experience and also both our sense of adventure. And so far so good.

We have met people out here with kids and it is a different situation for them. It may be good here, salaries are tax free but it comes at a price. Schooling in western schools is very costly along with many other things.

So I fully agree, research is vital. Different countries suit different people and Ireland is not always the worst option.