Old Age Pension disgrace

Drumpot

Im sorry but I just have to say that I am disgusted that the OAP is not being touched MAINLY because of the voting power this section of society has.

I get fed up reading about how these loud voice vested interest sections of society feel they are being "attacked" as if this crisis has passed the rest of us all out!

What is clear is that we are not all in this together because the pensioners have a louder voice, they will get protected from pain.

I believe in protecting the vulnerable (means test is easiest way of working out), not people who just dont want to adjust their lifestyles.

FF's biggest legacy will be the mess they left the country in, their second legacy will be their inability to challenge the biggest vested interest groups in Ireland to make sure that we all felt collective pain. Looks like its down to those without voices to once again shoulder the most pain.

This is not an attack on pensioners, its an attack on our politicians (lab and FG will be no differant) for not dishing out the pain evenly . .

Permabear

This post has been deleted.

astra2000

Hi I must admit I kindof agree with you, its not that I advocate cuts on welfare but I fail to see how it can be justified to cut dole and not pension, would it not have been fairer to have applied smaller cuts to all? Right now with my husband working and having a family I would be of the opinion that we would be much better off when we are pensioners as we will have no dependants mortgage will (hopefully) be paid and would only need one car.
I do have great respect for older people and the fact they have lived through much harder times than us and that unlike someone on the dole who will hopefully be able to get employment in the future and come off it this money will be their only income. Its a tough one to call.

joolsveer

I don't think that contributory allowances should be cut as the recipients have paid into a fund for this - a type of national insurance. My mother is 86 and receives the contributory old age pension on the basis of her own contributions and those of my late father. I would not like to see her income being cut after a lifetime of living and working in this state.

Anyone who worked 30 or 40 years deserves their state pension, many folk exist solely on it. I would be in favour of means testing it to an extent though, lots of really wealthy pensioners there who have megabucks.

pocketvenus

joolsveer wrote: »

I don't think that contributory allowances should be cut as the recipients have paid into a fund for this - a type of national insurance. My mother is 86 and receives the contributory old age pension on the basis of her own contributions and those of my late father. I would not like to see her income being cut after a lifetime of living and working in this state.

What about the people who have worked for last 20-30 years and paid their PRSI etc - their dole / JB will probably be cut in line with JA. It was last year and will be this year again as it is being predicted. That is not fair either.

OAP's cannot be out there giving out about the budget etc when they are not willing to give up anything - even if it was a €5 each week or a reduction in benefits such as loss of free tv license etc it would show they are willing to help somewhat. All they are doing is with the Gov robbing their children, grandchildren etc by refusing to take a cut in anything.

Slydice

This blog wasa posted yesterday:
http://economic-incentives.blogspot.com/2010/12/presentation-to-ucc-economics-society.html

Looking at the slides on this blog gave me some perspective on the old age pensions issue.

niallers1

Just remember you will be a pensioner in a few years.
I think pensioners have contributed taxes over the years and have had to endure the rat race for approx: 40 years and passed the finish line.

I think they deserve to have some comfort and perks at the end of their working life.


I think the state pension should be means tested. This is the fairest way of cutting. Those who are wealthy do not need it as much as those who have no other source of income.

DoesNotCompute

pocketvenus wrote: »

OAP's cannot be out there giving out about the budget etc when they are not willing to give up anything - even if it was a €5 each week or a reduction in benefits such as loss of free tv license etc it would show they are willing to help somewhat. All they are doing is with the Gov robbing their children, grandchildren etc by refusing to take a cut in anything.

I have to say, I do agree with this. OAPs should be expected to contribute (even if it is €5 a week, it would be something). After all, they do get free tv licences, fuel allowances, free travel, etc, etc.

The likes of Jackie Healy-Rae and Michael Lowry holding the country hostage and milking the publicity for all it was worth last night on the OAP issue is an outright disgrace and embarrasses us while the eyes of the world are on Ireland.

pocketvenus

niallers1 wrote: »

Just remember you will be a pensioner in a few years.
I think pensioners have contributed taxes over the years and have had to endure the rat race for approx: 40 years and passed the finish line.

I think they deserve to have some comfort and perks at the end of their working life.


I think the state pension should be means tested. This is the fairest way of cutting. Those who are wealthy do not need it as much as those who have no other source of income.

By the time the majority of people today in their 20-30's get to OAP age - the state pension probably won't exist or you will have to work till you are 80 to get it.

Nobody is saying pensioners shouldn't have comfort but being realistic the majority of them are doing quiet well - no mortgage, a new / brand new car probably paid for ( no loan), also low ESB, gas, phone bills, no tv license and holidays away or weekend breaks. I know this does not apply to all but the majority are doing ok. Some small contribution needs to be made by them - if they took a €5 cut then in turn it lead to a lower reduction in other benefits thus ensuring it is spread evenly over all SW payments.

Padraig Mor

niallers1 wrote: »

Just remember you will be a pensioner in a few years.
I think pensioners have contributed taxes over the years and have had to endure the rat race for approx: 40 years and passed the finish line.

I think they deserve to have some comfort and perks at the end of their working life.


I think the state pension should be means tested. This is the fairest way of cutting. Those who are wealthy do not need it as much as those who have no other source of income.

RoverJames wrote: »

Anyone who worked 30 or 40 years deserves their state pension, many folk exist solely on it. I would be in favour of means testing it to an extent though, lots of really wealthy pensioners there who have megabucks.

But that's one of the problems. There's plenty of OAPs out there who have NOT worked and paid tax for 30/40 years, yet still expect a lavish pension/benefits package, the likes of which most recently-unemployed people can only dream of (despite having far higher living costs). Pensioners are possibly the most cosseted group in the country, something my mother (a pensioner herself) agrees on.

pocketvenus

pocketvenus wrote: »

being realistic the majority of them are doing quiet well - no mortgage, a new / brand new car probably paid for ( no loan), also low ESB, gas, phone bills, no tv license and holidays away or weekend breaks. I know this does not apply to all but the majority are doing ok. Some small contribution needs to be made by them - if they took a €5 cut then in turn it lead to a lower reduction in other benefits thus ensuring it is spread evenly over all SW payments.

Being realistic the majority of pensioners don't have new cars.

Tenger

Slydice wrote: »

This blog wasa posted yesterday:
http://economic-incentives.blogspot.com/2010/12/presentation-to-ucc-economics-society.html

Looking at the slides on this blog gave me some perspective on the old age pensions issue.

I do think people deserve to get a old age pension. Looking at that slide show however shoes how in real terms the pension has increased above the rate of inflation. Slide 12 and 14 illustrate this very well. (silde 18 also shows the jump in lecturers salaries)

Another point is that there are a group (probably small) of 'well off' pensioners. Whether through smart investment or sales of property in the last decade these OAPs may not need the state pension. I would like to see a sliding scale of means testing to allow the state to insure the funds go to the most needy OAPs. (could be as simple as no free TV above a certain theshold)

pocketvenus

RoverJames wrote: »

Being realistic the majority of pensioners don't have new cars.

Well from the majority of OAP's I know and from seeing them going about on the road the car's are pretty new.

A friend of mine works for a car dealership and said the biggest purchaser of cars this year was the OAP's who were trading in 04-06's for brand new ones.

I know this does not extend to everyone but the alot of urban dwelling OAP's drive pretty new cars. Some even have 2 cars in the house. One older, one newer.

Jaysoose

I think this is part of the reason why this budget should not be allowed through, its not realistic to leave pensioners untouched while the rest of the country gets hammerred yet again. This is another legacy of the ineptitude of this goverment and its inability to face reality.

The cuts should be across the board for everybody.

ntlbell

RoverJames wrote: »

Anyone who worked 30 or 40 years deserves their state pension, many folk exist solely on it. I would be in favour of means testing it to an extent though, lots of really wealthy pensioners there who have megabucks.

You don't need to be mega rich, people talk about OAP's like they're the poorest people in the country a lot of them have more disposable income than anyone else.

In a lot of cases if you're an OAP you will have no mortgage, large amount of savings, no dependant kids. free travel, fuel allowances, no tv licensne, free health care etc. their outgoings will generally be at the lowest they've ever been.

irishh_bob

Drumpot wrote: »

Im sorry but I just have to say that I am disgusted that the OAP is not being touched MAINLY because of the voting power this section of society has.

I get fed up reading about how these loud voice vested interest sections of society feel they are being "attacked" as if this crisis has passed the rest of us all out!

What is clear is that we are not all in this together because the pensioners have a louder voice, they will get protected from pain.

I believe in protecting the vulnerable (means test is easiest way of working out), not people who just dont want to adjust their lifestyles.

FF's biggest legacy will be the mess they left the country in, their second legacy will be their inability to challenge the biggest vested interest groups in Ireland to make sure that we all felt collective pain. Looks like its down to those without voices to once again shoulder the most pain.

This is not an attack on pensioners, its an attack on our politicians (lab and FG will be no differant) for not dishing out the pain evenly . .

the descision to shield pensioners from the depression is not simply down to fianna fail political opportunism , irish people have always been mushy headed and sentimental when it comes to certain groups , all nurses are selfless angels of mercy , all pensioners are penniless and shivering with the cold beside thier turf fire

i for one have never understood the notion that one automatically becomes poor upon reaching the age of 66 yet all people over this age in ireland are lumped into the MOST VULNERABLE category , i honestly dont blame fianna fail for going with this descision , the next goverment wont cut it either as thier is overwhelming public support for maintaning the fiction that the old are inherintly weak , poor and vulnerable

irishh_bob

RoverJames wrote: »

Anyone who worked 30 or 40 years deserves their state pension, many folk exist solely on it. I would be in favour of means testing it to an extent though, lots of really wealthy pensioners there who have megabucks.

even you never worked a day in your life , you get 218 euro per week plus a multitude of other perks and as for those on the contributory 232 per week , thier is no way thier prsi contributions could have merited the increases awarded in the OAP this past decade

the groutch

whichever party is has the means testing of ALL state pensions in their mandate will most likely get my number 1 vote next year. it is ludicrous that there are pensioners out there that are nearly as wealthy as our TDs, and are still able to claim a state pension

irishh_bob

RoverJames wrote: »

Anyone who worked 30 or 40 years deserves their state pension, many folk exist solely on it. I would be in favour of means testing it to an extent though, lots of really wealthy pensioners there who have megabucks.

yeah means testing :rolleyes:

we tried that with the medical card two years ago , what happened , every pensioner in the country ( and thier children worried about a potentially smaller inheritance ) headed for dublin , the country went into uninformed hysteria and the result was that a retired pensioner can earn up to 699 euro per week and a retired couple up to 1398 euro per week while still qualifying for free trips to thier local GP

the facts go out the window when having a conversations about sacred cows in this country

Sesshoumaru

niallers1 wrote: »

Just remember you will be a pensioner in a few years.
I think pensioners have contributed taxes over the years and have had to endure the rat race for approx: 40 years and passed the finish line.

I think they deserve to have some comfort and perks at the end of their working life.


I think the state pension should be means tested. This is the fairest way of cutting. Those who are wealthy do not need it as much as those who have no other source of income.

The state isn't a magic pot of gold. We all contribute while paying taxes for the day to day running of the government. Did the taxes these pensioners paid turn into a magic pot of gold? No! It went where my tax euros today go to, the day to day running of the sate.

While they were younger and working, their taxes paid for Gardai to patrol the street, for doctors, nurses, firemen, the army, navy, air corp & everything else the state provides for on a daily basis. Right now my taxes have to pay for the upkeep of the state and now for these pensioners who are living longer than ever before.

Max Power1

irishh_bob wrote: »

even you never worked a day in your life , you get 218 euro per week plus a multitude of other perks and as for those on the contributory 232 per week , thier is no way thier prsi contributions could have merited the increases awarded in the OAP this past decade

IMO they should leave the contributory pension as is (or a token decrease of say5%), and half the non contributory pension.

After all, who gets the non contributory pension? People that dont work. There was no excuse for not having a job during the celtic tiger years, but yet these scroungers and bottom dwellers get almost the same as someone who paid PRSI for 40 years? Outrageous.

I detest this image of the pensioner as "huddled in the cold etc". They get MORE (even on the non contributory pension) then someone who is on Jobseekers Benefit (the contributory one)

the groutch

irishh_bob wrote: »

yeah means testing :rolleyes:

we tried that with the medical card two years ago , what happened , every pensioner in the country ( and thier children worried about a potentially smaller inheritance ) headed for dublin , the country went into uninformed hysteria and the result was that a retired pensioner can earn up to 699 euro per week and a retired couple up to 1398 euro per week while still qualifying for free trips to thier local GP

the facts go out the window when having a conversations about sacred cows in this country

it didnt work because FF have no balls to stand up to pensioners

gollem_1975

OAP V JSB etc.

JSB and JSA are not intended to be payments for someone just because they are not working.

the intention is that is payment to tide them over while they are "seeking" work.

It is not intended that the OAPs will be out looking for work / competing for work with those under 65 so I do see some rationale for the OAP to be higher than JSB rates.

having said that I wouldn't oppose a cut in the OAP considering the scenario where everything else seems to be getting a cut (share the pain etc.)

Max Power1

the groutch wrote: »

it didnt work because FF have no balls to stand up to pensioners

But they vote in their droves :rolleyes:

Max Power1

gollem_1975 wrote: »

OAP V JSB etc.

JSB and JSA are not intended to be payments for someone just because they are not working.

the intention is that is payment to tide them over while they are "seeking" work.

It is not intended that the OAPs will be out looking for work / competing for work with those under 65 so I do see some rationale for the OAP to be higher than JSB rates.

having said that I wouldn't oppose a cut in the OAP considering the scenario where everything else seems to be getting a cut (share the pain etc.)

Even if the contributpry JSB payment is lower than the non contributory pension? So you sit on your hole for 40 years claiming the dole, then get an increase at 66? Whereas Joe Soap who got laid off at 55 after 30 years working and paying PRSI gets less?

Hardly fair IMO

Idbatterim

why the hell on the likes of Vincent Browne, does he always go on about the vulnerable being attacked? we are the most broke nation in europe, with low taxes and very generous welfare. Ofcourse alot of people here reckon there is nothing wrong with being as well or better off than someone who actually goes out and works!

gollem_1975

the groutch wrote: »

it didnt work because FF have no balls to stand up to pensioners

considering the current economic crisis (the details of which came into the public eye some time after those OAP protests) I think the government had bigger fish to fry then "standing up to them" (the savings wouldn't have justified it either)
If the opposition had rowed in behind the government perhaps they would have stood up.
The protest were an early barometer for the government for the idea that people would not take a cut in their "entitlements" in the national interest.. we didn't cause this etc.

If the government should have stood up to anyone with regards to the OAP medical card issue it should have been the Irish Medical Organisation with regard to the generous deal the GPs got for looking after Medical card payments!(I wonder will FG's James O'Reilly tackle this when he is in government since he was the main negotiator for the IMO afaik )

Tim Robbins

Isn't it obvious what is happening folks?

FF are leaving every tough decision to Labour / FG.

We all know the country will not get out of this mess until:

1. There is a default on senior bond holders
2. There are massive cuts to social welfare - pensioners and dolers.
3. There are savage cuts to the public sector.
4. College fees treble

Money doesn't grow on trees, it doesn't fall from the clouds. Some major pain will be a coming and FF just don't want all of it on their hands. They'll be twice the cute hoors in opposition and the labour / fg co-alition won't last two years.

gollem_1975

Max Power1 wrote: »

Even if the contributpry JSB payment is lower than the non contributory pension? So you sit on your hole for 40 years claiming the dole, then get an increase at 66? Whereas Joe Soap who got laid off at 55 after 30 years working and paying PRSI gets less?

Hardly fair IMO

yes when you put it like that it doesn't seem fair.

to follow on from your analogy - that 55 year old can also sit on their hole claiming the dole just like the other person in your example and then also get an increase at 66. It may not be fair but at least its equal if you know what I mean.

OT - based on what (little) i know about life expectancy.. someone who sits on their hole for 40 years on the dole , considering the lifestyle that goes along with that, will not be collecting OAP for a long time.

It seems like the whole area of Social Welfare payments/benefits needs to be looked at in Ireland.

Idbatterim

I think the dole and pension should be at different rates, an absolute subsitence rate, i.e half the normal rate for those who never worked or intend on working.

irishh_bob

Idbatterim wrote: »

why the hell on the likes of Vincent Browne, does he always go on about the vulnerable being attacked? we are the most broke nation in europe, with low taxes and very generous welfare. Ofcourse alot of people here reckon there is nothing wrong with being as well or better off than someone who actually goes out and works!

vincent browne is on the far left which means he is a complete economic illiterete , most of his shows revolve around him wringing his hands and lamenting how unfair it all is , akin to kevin from the harry enfield show

that said , he was the only broadcaster on tv providing truth to the public during the recent banking crisis , on the banks , he has been a brave and honest broadcaster , the man has guts and passion , he just lives in a fantasy world when it comes to economics

flutered

in last years budget the oaps were not hit, but the widows, the disabled and their carers were, which just goes to show how much of a proctected species they are, plus the fact that quite a number of them have two pensions, both a ps and an oap, could this be wherein the problem lies.

Sleepy

I'd comment but I'm sick of being compared to hitler for the seemingly outlandish idea that those receiving the pension are no more deserving than those receiving the dole.

amacca

Sleepy wrote: »

I'd comment but I'm sick of being compared to hitler for the seemingly outlandish idea that those receiving the pension are no more deserving than those receiving the dole.

jawohl mein fuhrer!:rolleyes:???????

but zis makes no zense.....zose good germanz zat have contributed to our glorious reich must be protected no?

I'd say there should be smaller reduction for those on contributory pension than those on pension zat was provided for sitting on ones hole and participating in the black economy etc etc

long term unemployed (not disabled or sick) with no intention of finding work --- community service for dole payments or progressive reductions to barely subsistence level.......

vere ist mein Luger

Sir Oxman

flutered wrote: »

in last years budget the oaps were not hit, but the widows, the disabled and their carers were, which just goes to show how much of a proctected species they are, plus the fact that quite a number of them have two pensions, both a ps and an oap, could this be wherein the problem lies.

The only reason they have been untouched last year and now this year is that they vote and in good numbers for FF.
If thsi country muddles through the next few years, teh new govt will have to tackle the oaps and they will get the blame, not FF. It's disgusting.

I agree about the carers, a group who save this country copious amounts of money every year.
Funny how they are hit again and again.

irishh_bob

gambiaman wrote: »

The only reason they have been untouched last year and now this year is that they vote and in good numbers for FF.
If thsi country muddles through the next few years, teh new govt will have to tackle the oaps and they will get the blame, not FF. It's disgusting.

I agree about the carers, a group who save this country copious amounts of money every year.
Funny how they are hit again and again.

lots of groups vote fianna fail in large numbers yet they are not spared cuts entirely , fianna fail dont touch pensioners because they have overwhelming public support not to cut them , as i said earlier , the next goverment wont touch pensioners either , a homeless guy was interviewed on the news at one today , he mentioned all the people who the goverment had cut and what do you know , pensioners were included , this despite the fact that they have not recieved any cuts in any of the recent budgets , by default , most people think of pensioners as vulnerable , weak and poor and under attack , nothing could be further from the truth ,
untill irish people stop being so mushy headed and sentimental about certain groups , things will not change

alejandro1977

joolsveer wrote: »

I don't think that contributory allowances should be cut as the recipients have paid into a fund for this - a type of national insurance. My mother is 86 and receives the contributory old age pension on the basis of her own contributions and those of my late father. I would not like to see her income being cut after a lifetime of living and working in this state.

As Comical Lenny has pointed out the Old age pension has increased way above inflation since 2000. I'm guessing an 86 year old hasn't worked since then so I really don't think that you can use that arguement against cutting it back to the inflation adjusted rate.

_Whimsical_

In this case it's not actually FF that are solely responsible for a lack of cuts in pensions. The minister for social welfare said a few weeks ago in a radio interview that no one would be spared in social welfare cuts. Yet in recent weeks we have seen Jackie Healy Ray and Michael Lowry grand standing on the OAP issue saying that they would not support the budget if there were cuts to it. As our political system is as it is that would result in the budget collapsing, panic in the markets and huge financial implications for Ireland , perhaps the Eurozone as a whole. Infact yesterday Bloomberg highlighted Jackie Healy Ray as "the sugar daddy" of Ireland and the man who may hold the fate of the Euro in his hands.

Lowry and Healy Ray will be re-elected next time around in their constituencies because they'll have protected the pockets of their most powerful voting demographic. The result in essence will be that as the rest of shoulder the burden for OAPs ,all of us will pay for the best election campaign imaginable for Lowry & Healy Ray.

_Whimsical_

Ick!
Tony Killeen FF minister on TV defending lack of cuts to the OAPs because they've contributed to Irish society and are least equipped to find work now.

When it's put to him that carers,the blind and the disabled are in the same position his response is "ahh now...it's not as if we are putting them back to 1916 levels" .

Then he says middle Ireland are also being hit so these groups must take the pain but the fact remains the OAPs are the least equipped to cope with a financial cut.

They just don't care at all .:(

rightwingdub

They should have cut the ddole by 15%, OAP by 10%. This budget is a joke.

gollem_1975

_Whimsical_ wrote: »

In this case it's not actually FF that are solely responsible for a lack of cuts in pensions. The minister for social welfare said a few weeks ago in a radio interview that no one would be spared in social welfare cuts. Yet in recent weeks we have seen Jackie Healy Ray and Michael Lowry grand standing on the OAP issue saying that they would not support the budget if there were cuts to it. As our political system is as it is that would result in the budget collapsing, panic in the markets and huge financial implications for Ireland , perhaps the Eurozone as a whole. Infact yesterday Bloomberg highlighted Jackie Healy Ray as "the sugar daddy" of Ireland and the man who may hold the fate of the Euro in his hands.

Lowry and Healy Ray will be re-elected next time around in their constituencies because they'll have protected the pockets of their most powerful voting demographic. The result in essence will be that as the rest of shoulder the burden for OAPs ,all of us will pay for the best election campaign imaginable for Lowry & Healy Ray.

or if the opposition had undertaken a tallaght strategy part 2 a lot more of the austerity measures that are being called for here could have been implemented...

speaking of which there seems to be a lot of people on here calling for tougher measures.. presumably measures that fall on people other than themselves.

rightwingdub

gollem_1975 wrote: »

or if the opposition had undertaken a tallaght strategy part 2 a lot more of the austerity measures that are being called for here could have been implemented...

speaking of which there seems to be a lot of people on here calling for tougher measures.. presumably measures that fall on people other than themselves.

we all have to take a hit be it pay cuts, reduction in mortgage interest allowances, rent relief etc.

Deise Tom

Is there any place where we can find out exactly who will vote in favour of the OAP not been touched in Today's pension and people born with physical disabilities and who are not able to go out and do a full days work in the way that many would love to are been having their weekly income cut.

I have a major gripe about this. It would not be too bad if those that have a british pension and are getting it topped up when they come over here were cut but they wont, because TD's in ALL parties do not have the BALLS to stand up and say whats good for the goose should be good enough for the gander.

solerina

Cut the pension for those that paid nothing into it due to years of sitting on their ar***.
Cut the dole for those that have also sat on their ar*** during the boom times...
Cut the payments to single parents (only those who are not really single parents...come on we all know plenty of them)
Increase money for those who worked/paid taxes and have unfortunately lost their jobs recently....
Pay out on a sliding scale....the longer unemployed, the less you get
Rant over...and no I am not unemployed (I know I am lucky)

Max Power1

solerina wrote: »

Cut the pension for those that paid nothing into it due to years of sitting on their ar***.
Cut the dole for those that have also sat on their ar*** during the boom times...
Cut the payments to single parents (only those who are not really single parents...come on we all know plenty of them)
Increase money for those who worked/paid taxes and have unfortunately lost their jobs recently....
Pay out on a sliding scale....the longer unemployed, the less you get
Rant over...and no I am not unemployed (I know I am lucky)

+1 million to all the above, couldnt have said it better myself.

I am fuming here at the thought of my extra taxes next year, compared to Joe Pensioner with no cut at all, or Jim Longtermdolerecipient, who has a miniscule cut.

motherriley

Max Power1 wrote: »

+1 million to all the above, couldnt have said it better myself.

I am fuming here at the thought of my extra taxes next year, compared to Joe Pensioner with no cut at all, or Jim Longtermdolerecipient, who has a miniscule cut.

It is not just Joe Pensioner, do you think these in people that make the rules are going to shoot themselves in the foot, they will be retiring and if they cut pensioners they will also be cutting it for themselves. Look at their salaries I read somewhere that the leader (Cowen) salary was equivalent to that of Obama. We all know that the US has over 500 million populations compare to Ireland of 4 to 5 million. If the TD's are paying themselves the same as the US to run a country of 4 to 5 million, surely that says it all. :mad:

These TD's throw a few crumbs to Joe Public in the country and they are now taking it back due to none of them not been able to do simple maths.

blue_steel

You have to admire pensioners weilding so much influence simply by bothering their holes to vote. A lesson for everyone there. Politicians will never give a toss about people who don't even exercise their right to sack them.

_Whimsical_

solerina wrote: »

Cut the pension for those that paid nothing into it due to years of sitting on their ar***.
Cut the dole for those that have also sat on their ar*** during the boom times...
Cut the payments to single parents (only those who are not really single parents...come on we all know plenty of them)
Increase money for those who worked/paid taxes and have unfortunately lost their jobs recently....
Pay out on a sliding scale....the longer unemployed, the less you get
Rant over...and no I am not unemployed (I know I am lucky)

Hold on now!

Those on the non contributory OAP are a diverse group of people. It is highly unfair to say they are a group who "spent years sitting on their arse doing nothing".

Some of them are women from another era who were forced to give up jobs when they married and who reared families who have hugely contributed to the nation.Others will have spent years working as carers for disabled relatives over the course of their life at a time when that was not recognized financially by the state.Their work saved the state an immense sum. Others on the non contributory pension are workers, particularly some trades people, who worked all their lives believing they were paying stamps etc only to find their employer had pocketed this money.They are also those who spent their lives disabled living on the pittance provided to them in the last 60 or so years. You have to remember that these people lived at a time when education was the preserve of the wealthy. They did not have the same opportunities we have had.

The majority who qualify for this pension were not enjoying the high life or living off the fat of the land in their younger years and they are NOT the problem here. The politicians and our political system are. I believe that the OAPs should have taken the social welfare cut but I don't blame them for not being hit.

irishh_bob

blue_steel wrote: »

You have to admire pensioners weilding so much influence simply by bothering their holes to vote. A lesson for everyone there. Politicians will never give a toss about people who don't even exercise their right to sack them.

when you cut the pension , you loose more than the pensioners vote , the majority of people feel the same way about cutting pensioners as they do about closing hospitals in small provincial towns , its a hot button issue and one that nearly always garners an emotional ( yet irrational ) response

sallystar

Ireland has a population which is now living longer. As many of these people get older they may require home help or may need to go into a nursing home. As most people would prefer to see out their days while still living at home, this will now not be an option as there will be less home-help.
There is a huge difference in the cost of a Nursing Home for a week compared to this home-help. Most of the individuals pension is taken from them when they go into a Nursing Home anyway, there is already a shortage of Nursing Home beds, which in turn blocks acute hospital beds for up to 8 weeks, maybe more.
If the pension was dropped by even €5 per week and if this money was used to provide more community care we would have more employment and people that can live in their homes for as long as possible.