Shameful response to weather

Condatis

A spokesman for Brown Thomas was quoted in the Irish Times complaining that Dublin City Council had failed to clear Grafton Street of snow.

Is he not aware that city bye-laws require occupiers to keep clear the pavements outside their premises. His attitude is widespread. The lack of civic responsibility displayed by businesses throughout the city is appalling.

It would be impossible for the City Council to keep clear all footpaths in the city. Their actions in concentrating on main routes is appropriate. If every business invested in a spade and a good yard brush the footpaths could be cleared easily.

The main shopping areas around Grafton and Henry Streets have been a disgrace throughout the bad weather. There have been some worthy exceptions in Mary Street.

It is time for businesses to demonstrate a proper degree of civic citizenship and get out their shovels.

The same duty falls on householders - provided that they are fit. If you are physically able to do so it is your responsibility to keep the footpath outside your house clear - and to help out neighbours who can not do so themselves.

danbohan

Condatis wrote: »

A spokesman for Brown Thomas was quoted in the Irish Times complaining that Dublin City Council had failed to clear Grafton Street of snow.

Is he not aware that city bye-laws require occupiers to keep clear the pavements outside their premises. His attitude is widespread. The lack of civic responsibility displayed by businesses throughout the city is appalling.

It would be impossible for the City Council to keep clear all footpaths in the city. Their actions in concentrating on main routes is appropriate. If every business invested in a spade and a good yard brush the footpaths could be cleared easily.

The main shopping areas around Grafton and Henry Streets have been a disgrace throughout the bad weather. There have been some worthy exceptions in Mary Street.

It is time for businesses to demonstrate a proper degree of civic citizenship and get out their shovels.

The same duty falls on householders - provided that they are fit. If you are physically able to do so it is your responsibility to keep the footpath outside your house clear - and to help out neighbours who can not do so themselves.

its a disgrace that after 1 week of snow/ice majority of footpaths are still covered with snow/ice in this country , it should be a legal requirement for all business owners /private residence owners to clear footpath in front of their premises as in US . we have 450,000 unemployed they should be organised and made clear paths as well .

Bards

Condatis wrote: »

A spokesman for Brown Thomas was quoted in the Irish Times complaining that Dublin City Council had failed to clear Grafton Street of snow.

Is he not aware that city bye-laws require occupiers to keep clear the pavements outside their premises. His attitude is widespread. The lack of civic responsibility displayed by businesses throughout the city is appalling.

It would be impossible for the City Council to keep clear all footpaths in the city. Their actions in concentrating on main routes is appropriate. If every business invested in a spade and a good yard brush the footpaths could be cleared easily.

The main shopping areas around Grafton and Henry Streets have been a disgrace throughout the bad weather. There have been some worthy exceptions in Mary Street.

It is time for businesses to demonstrate a proper degree of civic citizenship and get out their shovels.

The same duty falls on householders - provided that they are fit. If you are physically able to do so it is your responsibility to keep the footpath outside your house clear - and to help out neighbours who can not do so themselves.

I'm sure this is more appropriate in Dublin City Forums then the Roads Forum

neris

Maybe if Brown Thomas did a proper Christmas window the council might clear the street

doolox

At what rate and this would displace co. co. workers. Who would pay for the insurance of the workers, who would manage the handing out of shovels and other equipment and stop it being stolen?

How many hours would be required and at what times?

I could not see this working in the short term but if the workers were given the same rate as council workers it may be possible to build up a bank of workers on short notice if it didn't take so long to get the dole reinstated after an assignment like this had ended........it take months to get paid on a fresh UA/UB claim so the recipients will not be willing to go off signing for a few days work.

Making work like this compulsory would be a non-runner unless you were to introduce compulsory fitness tests to determine how many on the dole are fit for vigourous outdoor work, the vast majority would probably cite health problems to avoid the work.

Coriolanus

Cobdatis, can you cite the bylaws you mention?

Jet Black

Not sure about bye-laws but it would make sense for a business to make sure its customers can safely get into their premises.
The thing is Grafton street would be public property so if the company cleared it and someone sliped they might be liable.
Its the compo culture in Ireland and that would make me weary of these things.

Condatis

danbohan wrote: »

its a disgrace that after 1 week of snow/ice majority of footpaths are still covered with snow/ice in this country , it should be a legal requirement for all business owners /private residence owners to clear footpath in front of their premises as in US . we have 450,000 unemployed they should be organised and made clear paths as well .

There is no need to enhance existing legal requirements. If the likes of Brown Thomas practised appropriate civic responsibility and corporate citizenship, instead of moaning there would be problem.

AnonoBoy

Staff of Brown Thomas shovelling snow? Loike, no way!

Meeja Ireland

Condatis wrote: »

There is no need to enhance existing legal requirements. If the likes of Brown Thomas practised appropriate civic responsibility and corporate citizenship, instead of moaning there would be problem.

Do you have a link to what the actual legal requirements are?

ixoy

Condatis wrote: »

There is no need to enhance existing legal requirements. If the likes of Brown Thomas practised appropriate civic responsibility and corporate citizenship, instead of moaning there would be problem.

The problem is there's litigation risks right now. If they clean up but then someone slips outside their shop, they have a (justified) fear of being sued. We need to remove this litigous avenue.

Bronaaagh

danbohan wrote: »

we have 450,000 unemployed they should be organised and made clear paths as well .

What are the unemployed, slaves for the taxpayers' use? Not every unemployed person want to be jobless; to say they should be "made" shovel snow from outside department stores is despicable. And no, I'm not unemployed.

BigBrownBear

Bronaaagh wrote: »

What are the unemployed, slaves for the taxpayers' use? Not every unemployed person want to be jobless; to say they should be "made" shovel snow from outside department stores is despicable. And no, I'm not unemployed.

Totally agree. That sounds like the old chain gangs you used to see in the likes of Cool Hand Luke etc

knotknowbody

I am unemployed and would clear the paths for my dole and a decent meal (€10 carvery dinner from a pub) each day i was out, at least i would feel i earned it then, it would get me out of the house and interacting with people and the town council would have me clearing paths for a cost of €10 a day everybody wins.

Econoline Van

Whatever about unemployed people clearing snow, the lack of householders clearing the paths outside their houses was an absolute and utter disgrace. Walking from UCD to Booterstown DART station on Thursday took me a little over 30 minutes and I nearly fell countless times. The paths were unbelievable and were the same all over the city. So dangerous. Clearly as long as people can drive out their gates they don't care a fig about people who have to walk past their houses. An appeal should have been made on the news by the government. If everyone just made a little effort it would improve life greatly for everyone.

opinion guy

I have to say Grafton street was appalling in the snow. And actually most stores had cleaned the area immediately outside the store but the middle of the street was a disastrous icy mess. And in fairness to the stores - what are they supposed to do - carry the stuff to Stephen's green ???? No I agree with the BT guy - the council should have done more. The shops on the street actually did their bit.


Though I must say - lol at the images of the dainty lipstick brigade in BT out shovelling snow on the street

Captain Commie

ixoy wrote: »

The problem is there's litigation risks right now. If they clean up but then someone slips outside their shop, they have a (justified) fear of being sued. We need to remove this litigous avenue.

Sorry but do you not follow the news, this has been cleared up, there is now no risk of legal action against a personal/company.

Home/Business owners have been called upon many many times in the last 2 weeks to clear the pavements outside their building, and are also exempt from legal action if someone should fall. Also, if it was done correctly then no one will fall, all it takes is a little bit of monitoring and a bag a salt. I cleared the entrance to my apartment building which was covered with nearly 2 ft of snow and ice, threw down some dishwasher salt and was perfectly safe.

Ireland is becoming too much like the US with the whole "I'll sue you" culture

Captain Commie

Econoline Van wrote: »

An appeal should have been made on the news by the government. If everyone just made a little effort it would improve life greatly for everyone.

Might want to have been watching the news then, this was played on nearly every news broadcast in the state

Riamfada

I wonder how many people on this thread who said that social welfare recipients should be press ganged into clearing the snow actually took up a shovel and did it themselves? I would say very few.

Econoline Van

innovated wrote: »

Might want to have been watching the news then, this was played on nearly every news broadcast in the state

And people still did nothing? Shame on them.

Yillan

knotknowbody wrote: »

I am unemployed and would clear the paths for my dole and a decent meal (€10 carvery dinner from a pub) each day i was out, at least i would feel i earned it then, it would get me out of the house and interacting with people and the town council would have me clearing paths for a cost of €10 a day everybody wins.

What about if you weren't guaranteed the €10 carvery dinner, would you still do it? Aren't we forecast more snow next week? Put your shovel where your mouth is. I'll clear the south quays with you, or somewhere else. Thomas St was fairly bad. Not that I've any snow shovelling experience and I wouldn't know where to put the shovelled snow. Into a big pile maybe. I'm willing to put my weight onto a shovel is what I'm saying.

Just to get me out of this apartment for a few hours

bc dub

chain ganged dole workers or not, where was all the budding entrepreneurial unemployed peoples out on the streets with a shovel and a smile selling their services door to door?

fryup

Well Grafton St is one thing, but i brought my old man to St James Hospital last week..and it was disgrace most of the paths pavements were covered in compacted snow.

I mean a hospital of all places should be kept clear, and don't be telling me they haven't got the staff to do it ..why weren't the grounds/maintanance staff deployed to do this.

Tabnabs

bc dub wrote: »

chain ganged dole workers or not, where was all the budding entrepreneurial unemployed peoples out on the streets with a shovel and a smile selling their services door to door?

I wondered about this too, a tenner for clearing my drive would have been easy money.

But to turn this topic on it's head, I think there are a lot of nanny staters posting here. It's always someone else's fault or someone else has to act to keep me safe. Bull$hit, it's my job to look after myself. I kept the driveway clear so that I could come and go without problems. I used my initiative and bought snow grips for my shoes and have been walking smugly past the penguin shufflers. I bought snow socks for the car and haven't missed a days work.

Take a trip to the continent during heavy snow and you'll see we do alright here in Ireland. But it's up to us to be responsible for ourselves.

ixoy

innovated wrote: »

Home/Business owners have been called upon many many times in the last 2 weeks to clear the pavements outside their building, and are also exempt from legal action if someone should fall. Also, if it was done correctly then no one will fall, all it takes is a little bit of monitoring and a bag a salt.

I thought the issues arose if it was not done correctly. Now, as you say, it shouldn't be that hard to do a decent job but the small fear that there could be trouble would put people off. I certainly like to think it's not just laziness.

Anyway, none of this solves the bigger problem at the moment - pavements not outside any shops! They're presumably under the council's remit but I doubt we'll see much happening here as it's a low priority and ther's many miles of footpaths out there, many still with large icy stretches (obviously not as bad as they were but I still had to walk on the road today).

opinion guy

ixoy wrote: »

Anyway, none of this solves the bigger problem at the moment - pavements not outside any shops! They're presumably under the council's remit but I doubt we'll see much happening here as it's a low priority and ther's many miles of footpaths out there, many still with large icy stretches (obviously not as bad as they were but I still had to walk on the road today).

Agreed. Pavements near where I am are not outside any shops or anything. They are fine now but were lethal and most people ended up walking on the road

JuliusCaesar

fryup wrote: »

I mean a hospital of all places should be kept clear, and don't be telling me they haven't got the staff to do it ..why weren't the grounds/maintanance staff deployed to do this.

St Vincent's Elm Park was the same. Although the janatorial/grounds/maintenence staff are I suppose counted in with the non-front-line staff, the ancilliary staff, that everyone says we need to reduce in the Health Service. :rolleyes: But I'm sure we could mobilise a few doctors and nurses to do it!

As for the legal obligations & liabilities, our very own legal forum debate this on an annual basis (ie when it snows). Here you go.

wyndham

Anyone else notice that the pavements now have noticably less chewing gum on them after the ice has gone? It must have frozen the gum and broken it off. Never seen Talbot Street looking so clean.