Dentistry or Pharmacy as a career

Emiedoo

Dear All, I would be grateful if people in either professions could let me know what the prospects are for these careers for the future in Ireland. I am a mature student (>30 years!) planning to try the mature entry into either of these degrees and wondered what are the risks I should consider. How fulfilling are they as careers (i m leaning a little more towards dentistry at the minute). I guess I have to ask also how financially viable are they also.
Many thanks for all your advice in advance.
Regards....

FluffyCat

Im in fourth year pharmacy as a mature student. Since this is what Ive always wanted I have nothing bad to say!! Yeah at times the course can be a pain but no pain no gain!!
I love that I felt I knew alot about the profession before I started but realised quickly I had alot to learn!
I would highly recomend pharmacy but only if its the job you want to do but that can be said across the board!
Make sure you do work experience in both sections before you decide and remember getting into both courses as a mature could be quite difficult.
Money wise, you are looking at 4 years plus with little or no income and Im feeling the pinch now! If you have to pay fees you are looking at 8 thousand a year.
When qualified....well who knows what pay will be but I feel what goes down will have to come back up again!

Emiedoo

Fluffycat,
Thank you so much for your reply.I am happy you love your degree. Thats great. I am hoping to try to get in via the mature route entry also. What attracted you to it. Would it be ok to ask which college you are currently studying in. I am in Dublin so I will try for RCSI and also Trinity. How do you find the process for selection at the college you applied for. It s a huge step and I can accept easily having no money but one thing I wondered is whether or not as a student you can work as part of the course in pharmacies during your degree or is the course too intense too allow for this. How do your classmates and you feel about the career path available to you in Ireland. If god forbid you had to go abroad after you graduate which countries accept the degree. Thanks...

FluffyCat

Emiedoo wrote: »

Fluffycat,
Thank you so much for your reply.I am happy you love your degree. Thats great. I am hoping to try to get in via the mature route entry also. What attracted you to it. Would it be ok to ask which college you are currently studying in. I am in Dublin so I will try for RCSI and also Trinity. How do you find the process for selection at the college you applied for. It s a huge step and I can accept easily having no money but one thing I wondered is whether or not as a student you can work as part of the course in pharmacies during your degree or is the course too intense too allow for this. How do your classmates and you feel about the career path available to you in Ireland. If god forbid you had to go abroad after you graduate which countries accept the degree. Thanks...

Alot of my class wanted medicine and pharmacy was there second choice so alot dont like it! Working wise, dont forget you have sat! It really depends on you, if you can work. Personally I cant. Im way to tired at the end of the day to work too!!
Em.. I just loved the pharmacy environment. I loved the dispensing and advising aspect of the job. I have no plans to go abroad. It was never even an option for me! Getting into the course was hard and you really need to contact the colleges about that that. Remember that there is UCC as well. The colleges will only take about 8 people and demand is high.

Nonoperational

I have to be honest and say that pharmacy is great for availability of work but personally I found the job seriously seriously boring. No offence to any pharmacists it's just my opinion.

Emiedoo

Thanks Fluffycat for your reply. I guess I need to really think long and hard about it...

Emiedoo

Dear GPF101, Thanks for your reply. I guess if I understand you, you mean that there are pharmacies all over ireland so can get an option to work in almost any location. You can be your own boss etc

locum-motion

As a pharmacist myself, and the son of a dentist;

Don't touch either with a fcuking bargepole!

amjon.

Pharmacy as a career is ok, nothing to get excited about. You will get a massive shock once you start your pre reg and start working full time. It's a solid job and reasonably well respected. You could do lot worse. If I had the chance to chose what degree I'd chosen in the morning I'd still chose pharmcy ten times out of ten. I have friends in other professions and they all have horror stories to tell. Pharmcy is a job where you work to live where as in other proffesions it seems like alot of people live to work.

bleg

I can only speak for Pharmacy.

I think it's a very good course, the scope is huge and the knowledge base is very broad. You can work across many different sectors too. Community is OK, depends on the pharmacy you're working in. Industry has many opportunities and Research is always an option. With hospital in 5 years time you'll probably still have to emigrate to get a job.

The key thing is though to assess what the market will be like in 5 years time rather than at the moment. The Pharmacy course is going to be an integrated 5 year programme from 2012 with two 6 month placements rather than the full year at the end of the undergrad.

anotherlostie

bleg wrote: »

I can only speak for Pharmacy.

I think it's a very good course, the scope is huge and the knowledge base is very broad. You can work across many different sectors too. Community is OK, depends on the pharmacy you're working in. Industry has many opportunities and Research is always an option. With hospital in 5 years time you'll probably still have to emigrate to get a job.

The key thing is though to assess what the market will be like in 5 years time rather than at the moment. The Pharmacy course is going to be an integrated 5 year programme from 2012 with two 6 month placements rather than the full year at the end of the undergrad.

Do you seriously think there are many opportunities in Ireland in industry for graduates of any discipline? Pharmaceutical companies no longer have to hire graduates because there are unemployed people with tonnes of experience out there with other pharma companies closing/ downsizing in Ireland for the first time. Of course when the industry was crying out for pharmacists (ready made graduates who knew what was involved in making drugs!), very very few were interested given the crazy salaries on offer in community at that time. Several times I attended talks to try and convince students of the appeal of industry and never saw any interest reciprocated.

In relation to community, well in 5 years time the cuts being imposed at the moment will still be there, if not worse, we'll all be paying more tax, including the pharmacy businesses, and I don't see how salaries could improve from where they are now with more people registering every year than leaving the register, creating an even greater surplus in the supply/demand equation. My friend who's a dentist would probably have similar things to say in relation to prospects for dentistry.

Nonoperational

Emiedoo wrote: »

Dear GPF101, Thanks for your reply. I guess if I understand you, you mean that there are pharmacies all over ireland so can get an option to work in almost any location. You can be your own boss etc

Pretty much. You can get your details out there and people call you to fill in for days they need a pharmacist for. Locuming they call it. You'll never be stuck for a few days a week work.

Then there is the side of it where you can aim to buy a shop and set up a business but thats getting hard now.

You are your own boss in a way, even when you are working for someone else when you are the pharmacist in a shop you are pretty much "the boss". I use that in the loosest possible way in case people think I'm being a cockey ****e about it!

The course in college was fantastic in my opinin. Really good broad education.

ballsymchugh

speaking as a dentist, it all depends on where exactly you want to be a few years after you finish. do you want to be fully independent or be part of a big company?
my sister is a pharmacist and works for a big company. the day of the independent pharmacy are going unfortunately, with every half decent pharmacy in the country being bought up by chains. but then you don't have to deal with staff issues unless they involve you.
as for dentistry, while smiles may be buying up, they don't really have a great name. they have no patient loyalty (patients will see a different dentist for a different course of treatment) which can be kinda annoying for both. there'll always be the place for the independent dentist where things may need to be monitored over a few years, and patients develop rapports very easily with someone they see over the years. no offense to the pharmacists here!! we'll always get calls at work from people who only want to see a certain person. being independent means you have to deal with all the paperwork and overheads in your own time though, which is a lot!!
then it comes to money. a friend of mine is doing dentistry as a mature student and has a 100k loan out for the 5 years. that's if she stays as a general dentist. the postgrad options to specialise are expensive again.
i was just looking up doing a postgrad implant course in NYU today. it costs about 80k dollars a year. hmmmmm.....
but i'd do the undergrad course again no problem. the level of independence in the job is well worth it. as well as helping people etc!
there's a dental issues forum where more people may give you their opinions to back up dentistry.

Emiedoo

locum-motion wrote: »

As a pharmacist myself, and the son of a dentist;

Don't touch either with a fcuking bargepole!

Locum-motion... thanks for insight. Would you be able to explain more why you say this about either profession... Thanks

Emiedoo

ballsymchugh wrote: »

speaking as a dentist, it all depends on where exactly you want to be a few years after you finish. do you want to be fully independent or be part of a big company?
my sister is a pharmacist and works for a big company. the day of the independent pharmacy are going unfortunately, with every half decent pharmacy in the country being bought up by chains. but then you don't have to deal with staff issues unless they involve you.
as for dentistry, while smiles may be buying up, they don't really have a great name. they have no patient loyalty (patients will see a different dentist for a different course of treatment) which can be kinda annoying for both. there'll always be the place for the independent dentist where things may need to be monitored over a few years, and patients develop rapports very easily with someone they see over the years. no offense to the pharmacists here!! we'll always get calls at work from people who only want to see a certain person. being independent means you have to deal with all the paperwork and overheads in your own time though, which is a lot!!
then it comes to money. a friend of mine is doing dentistry as a mature student and has a 100k loan out for the 5 years. that's if she stays as a general dentist. the postgrad options to specialise are expensive again.
i was just looking up doing a postgrad implant course in NYU today. it costs about 80k dollars a year. hmmmmm.....
but i'd do the undergrad course again no problem. the level of independence in the job is well worth it. as well as helping people etc!
there's a dental issues forum where more people may give you their opinions to back up dentistry.

thanks v much for info, i will consider these things

FluffyCat

Emiedoo

After reading all the posts I'd say just do what you want. Every job has its bads points but what others hate you may love!! Go out and spend a few days experience in the jobs. That the best way to make your mind!

Blondie1988

Hi there,

I am thinking of applying to pharmacy via the graduate route in RCSI having already done a science degree. What do you think of the course itself? ie labs, lectures..etc. How difficult is it to get a place in the course? I need to be sure this is what I want if Im going back to college for another 4-5 years!!

Thanks!

FluffyCat

Blondie1988 wrote: »

Hi there,

I am thinking of applying to pharmacy via the graduate route in RCSI having already done a science degree. What do you think of the course itself? ie labs, lectures..etc. How difficult is it to get a place in the course? I need to be sure this is what I want if Im going back to college for another 4-5 years!!

Thanks!

Dont forget TCD and UCC. I applied to RCSI with a science degree, 8 years work experience in pharmacy and 3 years work experience in pharmaceutical industry and I didnt get in!
So yeah getting a place as a mature in pharmacy is hard!!

bleg

It's 5 years now.

Blondie1988

FluffyCat wrote: »

Dont forget TCD and UCC. I applied to RCSI with a science degree, 8 years work experience in pharmacy and 3 years work experience in pharmaceutical industry and I didnt get in!
So yeah getting a place as a mature in pharmacy is hard!!

WHAT?! you sound like the perfect candidate for a place! that knocked me down a peg or two, i'l know not to get my hopes up! I applied to Queens and University of Ulster also. What was interview like for RCSI?!

ballsymchugh

Blondie1988 wrote: »

WHAT?! you sound like the perfect candidate for a place! that knocked me down a peg or two, i'l know not to get my hopes up! I applied to Queens and University of Ulster also. What was interview like for RCSI?!

don't forget scotland! plenty of pharmacy schools there, a lot of irish students take that route. but bring woolly hats!

by the way, to the OP, ask a local dentist if you can go in and watch for a few days. that should be no problem.

Blondie1988

ballsymchugh wrote: »

don't forget scotland! plenty of pharmacy schools there, a lot of irish students take that route. but bring woolly hats!

Yep ive got Robert Gordon down but i would love to stay in Ireland if I could! thanks tho...haha wolly hats are a must!:)

ballsymchugh

Blondie1988 wrote: »

Yep ive got Robert Gordon down but i would love to stay in Ireland if I could! thanks tho...haha wolly hats are a must!:)

that's where my sister went. about a third of her class were irish.

eric hoone

Emiedoo wrote: »

Dear All, I would be grateful if people in either professions could let me know what the prospects are for these careers for the future in Ireland. I am a mature student (>30 years!) planning to try the mature entry into either of these degrees and wondered what are the risks I should consider. How fulfilling are they as careers (i m leaning a little more towards dentistry at the minute). I guess I have to ask also how financially viable are they also.
Many thanks for all your advice in advance.
Regards....

Your maturity will be a considerable asset when you graduate as a dentist, putting both patients and prospective employers at ease.
It's a difficult, challenging job, either to specialise, or at the coalface where you can deal with all social strata and their dental issues.
I enjoy being self employed especially, but can see advantages in working for a big company as a pharmacist aswell.

FluffyCat

Blondie1988 wrote: »

WHAT?! you sound like the perfect candidate for a place! that knocked me down a peg or two, i'l know not to get my hopes up! I applied to Queens and University of Ulster also. What was interview like for RCSI?!

The interview was mainly asking how will I take part in college activities and nothing to do with the course! Got the impression I wasnt wanted before I even went into the interview!

revz

Blondie1988 wrote: »

Hi there,

I am thinking of applying to pharmacy via the graduate route in RCSI having already done a science degree. What do you think of the course itself? ie labs, lectures..etc. How difficult is it to get a place in the course? I need to be sure this is what I want if Im going back to college for another 4-5 years!!

Thanks!

Hey, I'm currently in first year pharmacy in RCSI (as an undergrad, though i did a year in a science course last year), so I'm hoping someone who is a bit further on in the course can help you out a bit more.
I absolutely love the course itself, really interesting. It's quite tough but I'm really enjoying it so far. 90% of the lecturers are very, very good and some of the labs are very interesting and practical whereas others aren't.
There's a lot of graduates in the course, so you wouldn't be alone, and everyone has mixed well up to now!
I've just finished my first semester, if you'd like some more detailed info on the course and what we've done let me know and I can PM you!

Blondie1988

Blondie1988 wrote: »

WHAT?! you sound like the perfect candidate for a place! that knocked me down a peg or two, i'l know not to get my hopes up! I applied to Queens and University of Ulster also. What was interview like for RCSI?!

University of Ulster doesn't do Pharmacy? I am in Robert Gordon University. It's a good university although the city is very drab. I still love it over there.

briankirby

Im in 1st dent.any questions just Pm me.

revz

Deleted User wrote: »

University of Ulster doesn't do Pharmacy? I am in Robert Gordon University. It's a good university although the city is very drab. I still love it over there.

http://prospectus.ulster.ac.uk/course/?id=8679 It does now, think it's a pretty new course though.

revz

revz wrote: »

http://prospectus.ulster.ac.uk/course/?id=8679 It does now, think it's a pretty new course though.

Wasn't there when I applied. I would be wary of UU health science courses. I would be aiming to go to Queens if I was to go up the north. Also, fees are free in scotland whereas you will have to pay them in the north.

Larianne

Deleted User wrote: »

Wasn't there when I applied. I would be wary of UU health science courses. I would be aiming to go to Queens if I was to go up the north. Also, fees are free in scotland whereas you will have to pay them in the north.

Why would you say that? I know the Physiotherapy course has an excellent reputation. I almost chose it over TCD!

Also, some of the health science courses are covered by busaries - well they did when I applied 2 years ago.

OP, check out the advice for applying as a mature student here: http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055676871

ballsymchugh

gotta agree, as long as your degree is recognised by the professional governing body then it really really doesn't make much of a difference where you do it.
the methods will be completely different, for example, dentistry in trinity is based on problem based learning, while in UCC it's straight forward teaching.

caroline1111

One factor to consider is that dentistry is surely much better paid than pharmacy.

amjon.

caroline1111 wrote: »

One factor to consider is that dentistry is surely much better paid than pharmacy.

I heard dentists were badly hit in the last cuts to the extent that a career in Ireland isn't really a viable option at the moment. That said they do very well for themselves in the UK with an average wage of about 80k-ish.

cbds

caroline1111 wrote: »

One factor to consider is that dentistry is surely much better paid than pharmacy.

Sadly this is far from true at the minute. General dentists are suffering quite badly at the moment due to cuts to Medical Card scheme and PRSI schemes and being self-employed, if patients aren't attending, you don't get paid! I'm a dentist who qualified 4 years ago and at the time when I was filling out my CAO form I really had a tough time deciding whether to put pharmacy or dentistry as my first choice. I organised work shadowing in both professions and to be honest it was invaluable in helping me decide. My sister's a pharmacist and I definitely don't regret my choice of career. Dentistry is a great career - interesting, challenging and no day is ever the same. Having said that, being realistic, you're looking at working in the UK or Australia for a few years after graduation as job prospects for new graduates are unlikely to improve significantly in the next few years. About half my class went to the UK for a year or two after graduation but about 95% of this years graduates went due to no job opportunities here. Hope this helps, any other questions just PM me

busymum1

I'm not a dentist but I have a very good friend who is.
I think you should consider the work you will be doing after you graduate very carefully.
Dentistry involves lots of practical work and you need good manual dexterity and patience. You will be involved with patient care and clinical decisions. If you like the idea of that then go for dentistry. If patient contact and drilling teeth isn't your thing then do pharmacy. You have to be good with people and children to enjoy dentistry IMO. No disrespect to pharmacists but the patient contact in that field is much less.
I would strongly advise you to ask a local dentist if you can sit in for a morning session before you decide as it isn't for everyone.
Don't decide your future working life based on the course quality etc but on whether you would like to do the jobs available in that field afterwards.
I'm biased as if I could go back again I'd consider dentistry.
Good luck with it.

caroline1111

cbds wrote: »

Sadly this is far from true at the minute.

Its true that dentists may have taken a bad hit but so has pharmacy, its gone extremely bad in recent years, apparently - salaries are alot lower and unfortunately its not confined to ireland.

amjon.

caroline1111 wrote: »

cbds wrote: »

Sadly this is far from true at the minute.

Its true that dentists may have taken a bad hit but so has pharmacy, its gone extremely bad in recent years, apparently - salaries are alot lower and unfortunately its not confined to ireland.

Things aren't actually that bad in the UK. There are plenty of jobs with the big multiples over there. Salaries aren't horrendous either - you can start on north of 40k in full time position and as a locum you can hit 50k.

caroline1111

Things aren't actually that bad in the UK. There are plenty of jobs with the big multiples over there. Salaries aren't horrendous either - you can start on north of 40k in full time position and as a locum you can hit 50k.[/QUOTE]

Is this pharmacy you're talking about? I hope thats true cause all I've been hearing is the majority of graduates these days can't get jobs and if they do they're on 30k euro. Hope you're right though.

amjon.

caroline1111 wrote: »

Things aren't actually that bad in the UK. There are plenty of jobs with the big multiples over there. Salaries aren't horrendous either - you can start on north of 40k in full time position and as a locum you can hit 50k.

Is this pharmacy you're talking about? I hope thats true cause all I've been hearing is the majority of graduates these days can't get jobs and if they do they're on 30k euro. Hope you're right though.[/QUOTE]

Yeah pharmacy in the UK. Are pharmacists in Ireland genuinely accepting 30k?

deepimpact

amjon. wrote: »

Yeah pharmacy in the UK. Are pharmacists in Ireland genuinely accepting 30k?

I hope not, although I wouldn't be shocked if it were true. If it is true, it's probably more of a problem with the recently qualified graduates.

flowertree

I am a dentist and one of the lucky ones in the HSE so even though my salary was cut I don't have the stressful issues that the self employed dentists have.
My 2 cousins did pharmacy in Rcsi and only work parttime at weekends that is all the hours they could get.They are both seriously disillusioned.

deepimpact

I've never had a problem getting pharmacy work (locums or full-time) since I've qualified, in fact, in the month of November last year I got four (relatively well paid) full-time job offers. Just in that month. I must be lucky.

caroline1111

For getting a job, would it make a difference what college you went to and what grade you got?
Also is is generally easier to get pharmacy jobs in the city or country?

deepimpact

caroline1111 wrote: »

For getting a job, would it make a difference what college you went to and what grade you got?
Also is is generally easier to get pharmacy jobs in the city or country?

No and the country respectively in my experience.

Ability and willingness to travel long(ish) distances is a big factor in getting work in either the city or country imo. I'm glad I switched to diesel last year, much more efficient.

Anthony16

scanlant wrote: »

No and the country respectively in my experience.

Ability and willingness to travel long(ish) distances is a big factor in getting work in either the city or country imo. I'm glad I switched to diesel last year, much more efficient.

And, could u tell us what opportunities are like for pharmacists in Oz/Nz?Do many from here manage to get good jobs there with a decent wage?Cheers

deepimpact

Anthony16 wrote: »

And, could u tell us what opportunities are like for pharmacists in Oz/Nz?Do many from here manage to get good jobs there with a decent wage?Cheers

I haven't a clue about Oz/NZ tbh, on either question. I don't recall any of my class moving there either, although quite a few are in the UK at the minute.

amjon.

Anthony16 wrote: »

And, could u tell us what opportunities are like for pharmacists in Oz/Nz?Do many from here manage to get good jobs there with a decent wage?Cheers

There used to be some sort of agreement between Ireland/UK and Aus/NZ that degrees/qualifications were considered pretty much equal. This went around 2007-ish so now you will have to do a small amount of supervised work and a couple of exams along with a lot of paper work for New Zealand and probably the same for Australia.

Here is the New Zealand set up: http://www.pharmacycouncil.org.nz/cms_display.php?sn=149&pg=1218&st=1

I have only heard anecdotal reports of the state of pharmacy in New Zealand but none of them make it sound any worse than here at the moment. I'm not 100% certain about the pay in either country but it seems it is roughly comparable to UK

Anthony16

amjon. wrote: »

There used to be some sort of agreement between Ireland/UK and Aus/NZ that degrees/qualifications were considered pretty much equal. This went around 2007-ish so now you will have to do a small amount of supervised work and a couple of exams along with a lot of paper work for New Zealand and probably the same for Australia.

Here is the New Zealand set up: http://www.pharmacycouncil.org.nz/cms_display.php?sn=149&pg=1218&st=1

I have only heard anecdotal reports of the state of pharmacy in New Zealand but none of them make it sound any worse than here at the moment. I'm not 100% certain about the pay in either country but it seems it is roughly comparable to UK

and what is it like in the Uk.can u start on 35k?that would seem reasonable to me,given the amount of training involved

amjon.

Anthony16 wrote: »

and what is it like in the Uk.can u start on 35k?that would seem reasonable to me,given the amount of training involved

Alot of work available in the UK. You can start anywhere between 28k if you get done by Boots or up to 45k if you are lucky, was told not to accept less than 42k by few people in my company last year. Your wage will not grow like people in other sectors but you might have a better work/ life balance. I didn't like the UK myself but plenty of people do.

sf94117

I'd agree with all that's been said about prospects for dentists here....looks bleak for the next few years.

Also, it says on the FAS website (so not sure how much I'd read into this!!) that you can enter dental schools up to the age of 30. Now I haven't seen this mentioned anywhere on TCD or UCC's dental sites. I would wonder about the legality of expressly stating this but maybe there is a unwritten rule that they wont admit anyone over 30? Anyone know about this??

Adult Opportunities

It is possible to enter a dental school up to the age of 30 years, though competition is fierce.

Degrees in subjects such as Physiology, Anatomy or Biochemistry are particularly useful.



Link: http://www.careerdirections.ie/CD/DBAllCareerFrame.jsp?id=66