Is a 'United Ireland' an issue you consider when voting

Vintagekits

My example is . In general I am pretty A-political but I support the idea of a United Ireland, mainly because I have so many friends in the north that feel strongly about it.

I dont really fancy voting for Sinn Fein but this issue doesnt seem to really even register on any other political parties thinking so I am considering voting SF.

Does anyone think it an issue worth caring about or is it so far down your list of priorities that it makes such little difference that it doesnt or wouldnt effect the way you vote.

Just throwing that one out there to see what the consensus is. ta!

Monty Burnz

No, it's not a consideration at all. It seems the 'Republican Party' (Fianna Failure) are determined to lose the sovereignty of the Republic - Northern Ireland is the least of our worries.

And from the perspective of a Northern Ireland voter, how appealing have
Fianna Failure made unification with a bankrupt state run by the IMF? They would have to be nuts to unify with a state full of moronic voters who empowered Fianna Failure to take us to bankruptcy.

KeithAFC

Monty Burnz wrote: »

No, it's not a consideration at all. It seems the 'Republican Party' (Fianna Failure) are determined to lose the sovereignty of the Republic - Northern Ireland is the least of our worries.

And from the perspective of a Northern Ireland voter, how appealing have
Fianna Failure made unification with a bankrupt state run by the IMF? They would have to be nuts to unify with a state full of moronic voters who empowered Fianna Failure to take us to bankruptcy.

Relax, its never going to happen.

p1akuw47h5r3it

Well the next election will be my first voting, but no not at all!

sollar

KeithAFC wrote: »

Relax, its never going to happen.

Keith never is a bit hopeful i think, it won't happen in your lifetime perhaps but over the longer term it will imo. As less and less people identify themselves as religious on both sides of the border the hate will fade.

Some people born today may see it though. Most ordinary english people i talk to have no interest in keeping northern ireland. BTW i don't particularly want it but in 50 years perhaps.

KeithAFC

Doesn't matter what the English think to be honest. I don't know why people keep saying this as if its an important point or something.

PomBear

Irish men and women died like James Connolly, Padraig Pearse and Wolfe Tone who fought, bleed and died for our self determination and rights died for self determination of all Irish people and people of this Island so yeah we owe it to them. I will be voting for SF and ask every candidate I come across wht their views are on it to and it will see well to them in preferences if i'm impressed.

This is a sole reason for voting I feel it's incredibily important.

Qwert1

I'd definitely support the idea of a united Ireland, but I don't think voting for sinn fein is the way to achieve it. giving them any power would simply drive a wedge between the south and the north, pushing the prospects of unification even further away.

nordydan

KeithAFC wrote: »

Doesn't matter what the English think to be honest. I don't know why people keep saying this as if its an important point or something.

They cover your budget deficit every year.

KeithAFC

nordydan wrote: »

They cover your budget deficit every year.

So?

Point missed slightly.



PomBear, you say you will tell people to vote Sinn Fein and remind them of a United Ireland but what good is doing that to people who live in the republic?

PomBear

Qwert1 wrote: »

I'd definitely support the idea of a united Ireland, but I don't think voting for sinn fein is the way to achieve it. giving them any power would simply drive a wedge between the south and the north, pushing the prospects of unification even further away.

what?:eek:

they're the only party actively pursuing it and have not stopped pursuing it, they're in Government in the North.

DUP have more chance of achieving a united Ireland than FF and FG

PomBear

KeithAFC wrote: »

PomBear, you say you will tell people to vote Sinn Fein and remind them of a United Ireland but what good is doing that to people who live in the republic?

Economically,
An All Ireland taxation policy,
with 12.5% corp. tax in the 6 counties with two huge cities with major industry, it could be that bit more economic strength needed.
Stronger Health and Education services for border counties citizens(no cancer services AFAIK in Sligo, Leitrim, Cavan, Monaghan, Longford).
Good investment prospect from those already investing in the North.

IMO, the reliance of the public sector needs to be prioritised in the North.

Fitzerb

PomBear wrote: »

Irish men and women died like James Connolly, Padraig Pearse and Wolfe Tone who fought, bleed and died for our self determination and rights died for self determination of all Irish people and people of this Island so yeah we owe it to them. I will be voting for SF and ask every candidate I come across wht their views are on it to and it will see well to them in preferences if i'm impressed.

This is a sole reason for voting I feel it's incredibily important.

Will you also ask the SF candidate why did they shoot a Garda dead while trying to get out of his car.
I also want a United Ireland and I do consider which party is best placed to continue the progress we have made. However out of respect for Connolly, Pearse and Ann Devlin I would never vote for SF.
FF have brought us to bad place with their poor management of our finances and however bad I feel about us having to borrow from other Countires it is nothing to the shame I felt waking up every morning to hear of bombs killing childrenin the name if Ireland.

Focalbhach

Vintagekits wrote: »

My example is . In general I am pretty A-political but I support the idea of a United Ireland, mainly because I have so many friends in the north that feel strongly about it.

There are plenty of people in the North who feel very strongly the other way too

It seems to be a bit of a non-issue for the main players - other than Sinn Féin, who would have an awful lot of ground to make up to be in contention for my vote anyway - so as party policies go it's not something I'd consider. If (e.g) Fine Gael were to really start pushing for it it would become a factor. I don't think that a 32-county Ireland is particularly desirable at the moment, so I would be looking for lots and lots of detail on their plan, or it could count against them.

mikemac

KeithAFC wrote: »

Relax, its never going to happen.

It will happen in my lifetime even if it's a few decades away, it's inevitable.

But "the Republican party" don't see to have it high on their manifesto.

So no, it doesn't influence my vote

Ardennes1944

Fitzerb wrote: »

Will you also ask the SF candidate why did they shoot a Garda dead while trying to get out of his car.

:rolleyes:

KeithAFC

feelingstressed wrote: »

It will happen in my lifetime even if it's a few decades away, it's inevitable.

But "the Republican party" don't see to have it high on their manifesto.

So no, it doesn't influence my vote

Its not a few decades away.

Iwasfrozen

KeithAFC wrote: »

Its not a few decades away.

It's hard to say, the Nationalist population is certainly growing faster then the Unionist. Which also seems to have a much older average age.

PomBear

Fitzerb wrote: »

Will you also ask the SF candidate why did they shoot a Garda dead while trying to get out of his car.
I also want a United Ireland and I do consider which party is best placed to continue the progress we have made. However out of respect for Connolly, Pearse and Ann Devlin I would never vote for SF.
FF have brought us to bad place with their poor management of our finances and however bad I feel about us having to borrow from other Countires it is nothing to the shame I felt waking up every morning to hear of bombs killing childrenin the name if Ireland.

So who do you think are respect the wishes and legacies of Pearse, Connolly and Ann Devlin?
All of which saw a foreign oppressor deny their right to self determination and believe it or not kill children and they were the same oppressor in the North and they kill children there too, much more children than the IRA kills in fact. I personally do not think the killing of Jerry McCabe was right.

IrishTonyO

Simple answer, NO

PomBear

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

It's hard to say, the Nationalist population is certainly growing faster then the Unionist. Which also seems to have a much older average age.

Also Political Unionism is in disarray, and now's the time for them to have 20% of the say in Dáil Éireann instead of 2% in Westminister

KeithAFC

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

It's hard to say, the Nationalist population is certainly growing faster then the Unionist. Which also seems to have a much older average age.

It will be interesting to see the 2011 census.

sollar

It won't ever be forced on people it will be by consent of a large majority but its a long long time away yet imo.

Much like the reunification of germany it will make perfect sense some day.

deise go deo

Fitzerb wrote: »

Will you also ask the SF candidate why did they shoot a Garda dead while trying to get out of his car.

The odds of the gunman being his local candidate are fairly slim.;)

KeithAFC

much more children than the IRA kills in fact.

You talking about the conflict of the troubles? The PIRA killed more people than any other. The PIRA killed lots of children. Didn't seem to matter to them what religion they were either.

mikemac

KeithAFC, I've seen your posts on previous threads and pretty much knew what your posts here would be. Fair enough, I respect your opinion

In a few decades there will be a new majority. Demographics are changing.
And realy, the UK would be glad to get rid of NI. 40% employment in the public sector, not even close to sustainable

And realy I've lived there and walked past the bar shortly after Robert McCartney was murdered. Walked past it as the PSNI had arrived and were putting up a cordon. So there is one party I'll never vote for

Dannyboy83

PomBear wrote: »

Economically,
An All Ireland taxation policy,
with 12.5% corp. tax in the 6 counties with two huge cities with major industry, it could be that bit more economic strength needed.
Stronger Health and Education services for border counties citizens(no cancer services AFAIK in Sligo, Leitrim, Cavan, Monaghan, Longford).
Good investment prospect from those already investing in the North.

IMO, the reliance of the public sector needs to be prioritised in the North.

The North are already planning a change to a 12.5% tax rate anyway.
http://www.taxationinfonews.com/2010/11/northern-ireland-requesting-corporate-tax-rate-reduction/

It's in their best interest to compete with the Republic.
Joining us makes no sense, that means they lose out.

They have the NHS. They have the British State sector jobs.
The Irish republic simply cannot compete with the UK in terms of what can be offered to the North, couldn't during the pyramid years and cannot now.
Only the deluded romanticists would accept a 50% reduction in their standard of living to join a banjaxed republic, with no NHS.

The bottom line is that the North and the Republic will never be united until
A) The republic has fixed it's own problems
The republic has something to actually offer the North

Last but not least, I think people counting on Sinn Fein to achieve a united Ireland are mistaken. Sinn Fein can only achieve power in a devolved NI, they are irrelevant in Southern Politics and would be even more irrelevant in a United Ireland - simply couldn't get seats.
Turkeys don't vote for Xmas.

lugha

PomBear wrote: »

Also Political Unionism is in disarray, and now's the time for them to have 20% of the say in Dáil Éireann instead of 2% in Westminister

And given such power to a cohort who are and always have been, openly hostile to the whole idea of a single Irish state would be a good idea (for nationalists) why?

PomBear

KeithAFC wrote: »

You talking about the conflict of the troubles? The PIRA killed more people than any other. The PIRA killed lots of children. Didn't seem to matter to them what religion they were either.

The British Army killed more children the IRA during the troubles, prove me wrong if you like.

Liam Byrne

No, it's not an issue I consider when voting.

Northern Ireland can vote for inclusion in "Ireland" (sorry, not stirring but can't think of a different phrasing at the mo) whenever they want.

Another country could do likewise, if they so choose.

Nothing to do with me what way they vote, and vice-versa.

sollar

feelingstressed wrote: »

And realy I've lived there and walked past the bar shortly after Robert McCartney was murdered. Walked past it as the PSNI had arrived and were putting up a cordon. So there is one party I'll never vote for

That did so much damage for sinn fein imo, if any of the papers started bring that up again regularly in the general election campaign it would negatively affect sinn feins vote.

KeithAFC

Dannyboy83 wrote: »

The North are already planning a change to a 12.5% tax rate anyway.
http://www.taxationinfonews.com/2010/11/northern-ireland-requesting-corporate-tax-rate-reduction/

It's in their best interest to compete with the Republic.
Joining us makes no sense, that means they lose out.

They have the NHS. They have the British State sector jobs.
The Irish republic simply cannot compete with the UK in terms of what can be offered to the North, couldn't during the pyramid years and cannot now.
Only the deluded romanticists would accept a 50% reduction in their standard of living to join a banjaxed republic, with no NHS.

The bottom line is that the North and the Republic will never be united until
A) The republic has fixed it's own problems
The republic has something to actually offer the North

Last but not least, I think people counting on Sinn Fein to achieve a united Ireland are mistaken. Sinn Fein can only achieve power in a devolved NI, they are irrelevant in Southern Politics and would be even more irrelevant in a United Ireland - simply couldn't get seats.
Turkeys don't vote for Xmas.

A few interesting points in that post. Its something not enough people try to explain. Why would anyone in Northern Ireland would to reunite with the republic anyway? Bar that patriotic romantic feeling..

mikemac

Dannyboy83 wrote: »

Only the deluded romanticists would accept a 50% reduction in their standard of living to join a banjaxed republic, with no NHS.
.

The pension is over double but to be fair you can qualify for a pension in NI at 60.
The job seekers rate is over double.
Minimum wage is higher. Graduate salaries are definitely lower in NI.

I'm not seeing the 50% reduction in living standards here?

PomBear

Dannyboy83 wrote: »

The North are already planning a change to a 12.5% tax rate anyway.
http://www.taxationinfonews.com/2010/11/northern-ireland-requesting-corporate-tax-rate-reduction/

It's in their best interest to compete with the Republic.
Joining us makes no sense, that means they lose out.

Peter Robinson calling for it to happen is a far bit away from it actually happening.

Dannyboy83 wrote: »

They have the NHS. They have the British State sector jobs.
The Irish republic simply cannot compete with the UK in terms of what can be offered to the North, couldn't during the pyramid years and cannot now.
Only the deluded romanticists would accept a 50% reduction in their standard of living to join a banjaxed republic, with no NHS.

The bottom line is that the North and the Republic will never be united until
A) The republic has fixed it's own problems
The republic has something to actually offer the North

Republic has much to offer the North, the main reason being a right to live in their native land while actually treated like fellow citizens and not just in title.
The North can easily sustain the funds for the transition in both health and public sector, we also get more hospitals and cancer services for people in the border counties as I said. I said the public sector has to be reprioritised before it's economically viable.

Dannyboy83 wrote: »

Last but not least, I think people counting on Sinn Fein to achieve a united Ireland are mistaken. Sinn Fein can only achieve power in a devolved NI, they are irrelevant in Southern Politics and would be even more irrelevant in a United Ireland - simply couldn't get seats.
Turkeys don't vote for Xmas.

So who will acheive a United Ireland?:rolleyes:

KeithAFC

Republic has much to offer the North, the main reason being a right to live in their native land while actually treated like fellow citizens and not just in title.

There is a lot of people in Northern Ireland who don't consider the republic their native land though.

PomBear

lugha wrote: »

And given such power to a cohort who are and always have been, openly hostile to the whole idea of a single Irish state would be a good idea (for nationalists) why?

because they live on this island and have a right to a democratic say as much anyone else.

if you believe in a UI, it's yours and my responsibility to talk to unionists about this and reassure them, talking to unionist before they're are vastly lied to about this ideal

deise go deo

KeithAFC wrote: »

There is a lot of people in Northern Ireland who don't consider the republic their native land though.

There are plenty who consider Ireland their native land

PomBear

KeithAFC wrote: »

There is a lot of people in Northern Ireland who don't consider the republic their native land though.

and their native land opposes savage Tory cuts and gives them 2% of a say in Westminister. I'd be pissed off if I were a unionist.

KeithAFC

deise go deo wrote: »

There are plenty who consider Ireland their native land

But they aren't the majority. Im going on what the situation is in Northern Ireland now.

and their native land opposes savage Tory cuts and gives them 2% of a say in Westminister. I'd be pissed off if I were a unionist.

Its more about the land of Ulster than anything. Garrett Fitzgerald said something similar.

BOHtox

I'm for an all Ireland but I feel at this coming election it shouldn't be a decisive factor when voting.
Far far far more important things

PomBear

KeithAFC wrote: »

But they aren't the majority. Im going on what the situation is in Northern Ireland now.

They are citizens of this Island

KeithAFC wrote: »

Its more about the land of Ulster than anything. Garrett Fitzgerald said something similar.

So you're happy with the Tory cuts? and having 2% of a vote in Westminister?

lugha

PomBear wrote: »

if you believe in a UI, it's yours and my responsibility to talk to unionists about this and reassure them, talking to unionist before they're are vastly lied to about this ideal

I suppose I should have made clear that I do not "believe" in a UI, I regard it as a preposterous vanity project.
And why do those that do persist with this silly idea that you might persuade the unionists to sign up? No. You. Wont!!!! Ever! No matter what fine arguments you make about how much better the might be, even if true, in a UI. They are as blinded by irrational nationalism as the green side.
No, you need to out-breed them and thus out-vote them FTW. :pac:

PomBear

BOHtox wrote: »

I'm for an all Ireland but I feel at this coming election it shouldn't be a decisive factor when voting.
Far far far more important things

If the signatories of the proclamation could hear this now....

KeithAFC

PomBear wrote: »

They are citizens of this Island




So you're happy with the Tory cuts? and having 2% of a vote in Westminister?

Yeah.

Dannyboy83

PomBear wrote: »

Peter Robinson calling for it to happen is a far bit away from it actually happening.

It's only a matter of time

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-11724183
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-11632348
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/10462866

They plan to compete with us.

Republic has much to offer the North, the main reason being a right to live in their native land while actually treated like fellow citizens and not just in title.
The North can easily sustain the funds for the transition in both health and public sector, we also get more hospitals and cancer services for people in the border counties as I said. I said the public sector has to be reprioritised before it's economically viable.

Interesting, the figures I have seen don't appear to reflect this at all.
Could you show me what figures you are working off please?

BTW, I'm not arguing from the position of Pro/Anti unification.
I genuinely don't care.
I'm simply being pragmatic.

So who will acheive a United Ireland?:rolleyes:

A moderate party, working on issues relevant to the common man, not to the extremist.
Extremists don't/won't accomplish much.

Assuming things will gradually normalise in Northern Ireland, the extremism will dissipate and common issues will come to the fore, as in all countries.
Assuming things don't stay calm/normalised, there will be no reunification.

Dannyboy83

feelingstressed wrote: »

The pension is over double but to be fair you can qualify for a pension in NI at 60.
The job seekers rate is over double.
Minimum wage is higher. Graduate salaries are definitely lower in NI.

I'm not seeing the 50% reduction in living standards here?

You will.
Give it 4 years, starting from December the 7th 2010.

KeithAFC

It would help if the RIRA, CIRA, went away and the UVF disbanded too. It was only last year the RIRA killed a catholic police officer who was only doing his job. Doesn't help matters really.

PomBear

KeithAFC wrote: »

Yeah.

Good for you, most the unionists i've talked to are livid. I guess they aren't 'Lizzy's children' like they thought.

mikemac

Dannyboy83 wrote: »

You will.
Give it 4 years, starting from December the 7th 2010.

Yeah, I'll accept that point

sollar

If there was ever to be a united ireland it would have to be a completely secular state and they could change the seat of government from dublin to belfast.

PomBear

Dannyboy83 wrote: »

It's only a matter of time

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-11724183
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-11632348
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/10462866

They plan to compete with us.

So the talks haven't left the North yet? Do you realise what that means is legislative terms?

Interesting, the figures I have seen don't appear to reflect this at all.
Could you show me what figures you are working off please?

BTW, I'm not arguing from the position of Pro/Anti unification.
I genuinely don't care.
I'm simply being pragmatic.

What figures have you seen?

A moderate party, working on issues relevant to the common man, not to the extremist.
Extremists don't/won't accomplish much.

Assuming things will gradually normalise in Northern Ireland, the extremism will dissipate and common issues will come to the fore, as in all countries.
Assuming things don't stay calm/normalised, there will be no reunification.

Extreme or not, they are the third largest party on this Island the fact that you can't name another party speaks volumes.