car unlawfuuly taken?

frandman

Ok so i had a friends car taken off me at a checkpoint few weeks ago,[car is taxed n tested] The gaurd told me reason was not displaying insurance ? I tryed pointing out to him that i was insured to drive any car as long as i had the owners permission as i am fully comp on my own car. i even showed him the paragraph were it states this in my policy! anyway he didnt wana know and just told me it would be in a well known towing yard in north co dublin for the owner to collect. So i go to my local garda station and explain what hapend, The gaurd there [rookie] tells me the car shudnt of bein taken in the first place if i had all my docs which i did? then continue's to tell me that their would be no charge for geting the car back as long as the car was taxed,tested and insured at the time of seizure? So off i go to pick up car and when i get there im told e135 for towing and e35 for storage per day, when i explain what the gaurd just told me i was told he was wrong and the car wudnt be released until payment was made, so i reluctantly paid up as my friend needed car for work the next day. turns out the towing company what holds contracts for towing all cars siezed by the gaurds in dublin is actually owned by a gaurd! Is their something im missing here? is that even legal?

djimi

Did you get the Guards details? Go to his(/her) station and complain to their supervisor. Failing that contact the Garda ombudsman and make a complaint.

http://www.gardaombudsman.ie/gsoc-garda-ombudsman-complaints.htm

triple-M

frandman wrote: »

Ok so i had a friends car taken off me at a checkpoint few weeks ago,[car is taxed n tested] The gaurd told me reason was not displaying insurance ? I tryd pointing out to him that i was insured to drive any car as long as i had the owners permission as i am fully comp on my own car. i even showed him the paragraph were it states this in my policy! anyway he didnt wana know and just told me it would be in a well known towing yard in north co dublin for the owner to collect. So i go to my local garda station and explain what hapend, The gaurd there [rookie] tells me the car shudnt of bein taken in the first place if i had all my docs which i did? then continue's to tell me that their would be no charge for geting the car back as long as the car was taxed,tested and insured at the time of seizure? So off i go to pick up car and when i get there im told e135 for towing and e35 for storage per day, when i explain what the gaurd just told me i was told he was wrong and the car wudnt be released until payment was made, so i reluctantly paid up as my friend needed car for work the next day. turns out the towing company what holds contracts for towing all cars siezed by the gaurds in dublin is actually owned by a gaurd! Is their something im missing here? is that even legal?

keep d txt tlk 4 ur fone

frandman

triple-M wrote: »

keep d txt tlk 4 ur fone

sigh.. u get the picture

mickdw

If your insurance allowed you to drive an uninsured car, then certainly chase it up. Many insurers insist on the car being driven being insured by owner also

Avns1s

Car must also be insured by the owner to allow you to have cover under your own policy. That bit of information is missing from the OP.

rugbyman

djimi wrote: »

Did you get the Guards details? Go to his(/her) station and complain to their supervisor. Failing that contact the Garda ombudsman and make a complaint.

http://www.gardaombudsman.ie/gsoc-garda-ombudsman-complaints.htm

I recommend you do this. if it is a large garda station ask to see the Inspecor or station sgt. no great point in talking to the garda at the desk.
when its sorted(if it is) make a formal complaint against the Garda,it has to be seen through. If he is wrong and you are right(i think you are) he will have learned a lesson.

Rugbyman

frandman

Avns1s wrote: »

Car must also be insured by the owner to allow you to have cover under your own policy. That bit of information is missing from the OP.

Quinn direct told me when i took out the policy that i can drive other cars and they dont need to be already insured, only reason im with quinn

MarkoC

I would also take them to the court, the days you or you friend suffered without the car + moral compensation.

I think it was last year an eldery couple got huge award in similar case. Well they had foreign plates and they also lived abroad but hold Irish license.

Another thing, how traders drive on theyr cars, i doubt they have discs for all cars they drive, and only 1 wont do the job as its given out only for 1 particular car. System is a bit rotten here ...

listermint

frandman wrote: »

Quinn direct told me when i took out the policy that i can drive other cars and they dont need to be already insured, only reason im with quinn

This is not true, read the details of your policy again mate. youve read it wrong.

MarkoC

listermint wrote: »

This is not true, read the details of your policy again mate. youve read it wrong.

Isnt that the person is insured in ireland not the car ?

frandman

MarkoC wrote: »

I would also take them to the court, the days you or you friend suffered without the car + moral compensation.

I think it was last year an eldery couple got huge award in similar case. Well they had foreign plates and they also lived abroad but hold Irish license.

Another thing, how traders drive on theyr cars, i doubt they have discs for all cars they drive, and only 1 wont do the job as its given out only for 1 particular car. System is a bit rotten here ...

Ye i assumed i was safe as i had full licence and my policy with me and also the car was taxed and tested, apparently not

Avns1s

frandman wrote: »

Quinn direct told me when i took out the policy that i can drive other cars and they dont need to be already insured, only reason im with quinn

Been with many companies over the years and all required the car to be insured by the owner before you would have "driving other cars" cover on it. You may well be right about Quinn, but given that it is QUINN, I would doubt it.

Avns1s

MarkoC wrote: »

Another thing, how traders drive on theyr cars, i doubt they have discs for all cars they drive, and only 1 wont do the job as its given out only for 1 particular car. System is a bit rotten here ...

Traders are supposed to have a plate and the insurance follows the plate which must be displayed front and rear on the car being driven. I think the cover only extends to business hours or close to it too.

kravmaga

frandman wrote: »

Ok so i had a friends car taken off me at a checkpoint few weeks ago,[car is taxed n tested] The gaurd told me reason was not displaying insurance ? I tryd pointing out to him that i was insured to drive any car as long as i had the owners permission as i am fully comp on my own car. i even showed him the paragraph were it states this in my policy! anyway he didnt wana know and just told me it would be in a well known towing yard in north co dublin for the owner to collect. So i go to my local garda station and explain what hapend, The gaurd there [rookie] tells me the car shudnt of bein taken in the first place if i had all my docs which i did? then continue's to tell me that their would be no charge for geting the car back as long as the car was taxed,tested and insured at the time of seizure? So off i go to pick up car and when i get there im told e135 for towing and e35 for storage per day, when i explain what the gaurd just told me i was told he was wrong and the car wudnt be released until payment was made, so i reluctantly paid up as my friend needed car for work the next day. turns out the towing company what holds contracts for towing all cars siezed by the gaurds in dublin is actually owned by a gaurd! Is their something im missing here? is that even legal?

What is the name of the towing company?

If what you are saying is true I would say there is a major conflict of interest on a Business Ethics and Code of Practice point of view.

Have you evidence to back up what you are alleging?

kermitpwee

listermint wrote: »

This is not true, read the details of your policy again mate. youve read it wrong.

I'm with Axa and can drive cars that have no policy on them provided im not the registered owner or have a financial interest/benefit in them.

CiniO

kermitpwee wrote: »

I'm with Axa and can drive cars that have no policy on them provided im not the registered owner or have a financial interest/benefit in them.

I'm with Allianz and the same - I can drive someone elses car even if it's not insured by the owner.
I was with Hibernian before (current Aviva) and it was the same.

frandman

kravmaga wrote: »

What is the name of the towing company?

If what you are saying is true I would say there is a major conflict of interest on a Business Ethics and Code of Practice point of view.

Have you evidence to back up what you are alleging?

Im not sure about the rules of posting up company names but im sure its easy to find out? Its the largest towing company in dublin holds most contracts for garda seizures. based in north co dublin

tombull82

Avns1s wrote: »

Car must also be insured by the owner to allow you to have cover under your own policy. That bit of information is missing from the OP.

This is not fully correct as it depends on the insurance company. I had the exact same happen a few years back and the guard drove the car to the station. I arrived half an hour later with my policy and he told me that just because it didnt say the owner had to have it insured, it still had to be. I kicked up a fuss, his super came down an rang my insurance to prove it to me. Red faces all round when my insurane company told them that they did infact cover this. Job done. Car handed back with no fees. :-)

Tea drinker

tombull82 wrote: »

Red faces all round when my insurane company told them that they did infact cover this. Job done. Car handed back with no fees. :-)

That's quite hilarious :-)
Anyway, when I was with Hibernian they told me I had to call and tell from what date to what date I would drive other cars, not sure if they ever changed that.

Mint Sauce

I'm fully comp and insured to drive some one elses car, as long as my own car is not in use at the time and as far as I know, the car i'm driving has insurance already on it.

With Aviva.

Avns1s

Tea drinker wrote: »

That's quite hilarious :-)
Anyway, when I was with Hibernian they told me I had to call and tell from what date to what date I would drive other cars, not sure if they ever changed that.

In that case, I would think they were actually taking the policy from your own car and putting it on whatever car you were now going to be driving.

frandman

listermint wrote: »

This is not true, read the details of your policy again mate. youve read it wrong.

I dont have my policy to hand at the moment but i will check it out. they did tell me when i took out the policy that i was insured to drive other cars and they didnt need to be insured already. As i said this is the main reason im with quinn as i somtimes have to drive cars that have no insurance. that was the main pointer when taking out the policy

MarkoC

In democratic countries usually they have to prove that you are guilty, not that you have to prove you're not.

Anan1

MarkoC wrote: »

In democrat countries usually they have to prove that you are guilty, not that you have to prove you're not.

WRT insurance, the onus is on the owner to prove that they are insured. Yes, even in democracies.;)

Avns1s

CiniO wrote: »

I'm with Allianz and the same - I can drive someone elses car even if it's not insured by the owner.
I was with Hibernian before (current Aviva) and it was the same.

I am with Allianz now and Hibernian before and I can't remember seeing anything in the policy of either that would suggest that what you're saying is correct. It's also one of those situations where I would want to see it written down in the policy. It's one thing a garda ringing up and insurance company and them saying "yeah, they're insured" and another when they're facing €100k payout.

MarkoC

Anan1 wrote: »

WRT insurance, the onus is on the owner to prove that they are insured. Yes, even in democracies.;)

And if all the proof given they are still not happy,cant see any logic
Which means theres plenty poorly educated people working in blue uniforms ... And that is discrace ...

knifey_spoonie

Avns1s wrote: »

Traders are supposed to have a plate and the insurance follows the plate which must be displayed front and rear on the car being driven. I think the cover only extends to business hours or close to it too.

Trade insurance, covers all named drivers, some may be on the policy as social and domestic, some may be business use only. The only restrictions usually put on trade policy's are, Value, Vehicle age or sometimes origin of vehicle.

The plate is what's known as a trade plate, it allow unregistered cars to driven on the road.Nothing to do with insurance, but your do need proof of motor traders insurance to obtain a set.

Anan1

Avns1s wrote: »

I am with Allianz now and Hibernian before and I can't remember seeing anything in the policy of either that would suggest that what you're saying is correct. It's also one of those situations where I would want to see it written down in the policy. It's one thing a garda ringing up and insurance company and them saying "yeah, they're insured" and another when they're facing €100k payout.

My Aviva policy states that I am insured to drive any motor vehicle provided that it does not belong to me, has not been hired to me, and has not been obtained by violence or taken without consent. That's watertight - it may vary from customer to customer.

booboo88

triple-M wrote: »

keep d txt tlk 4 ur fone

Jesus does that even matter? you understood it didnt you?
Seriously though I 'd log a complaint with ombudsman. Its seems it depends on whos working that day in respect to the answer your given

frandman

kravmaga wrote: »

What is the name of the towing company?

If what you are saying is true I would say there is a major conflict of interest on a Business Ethics and Code of Practice point of view.

Have you evidence to back up what you are alleging?

well the owner is a ex garda sgt and he uses his surname as his company name? its not exactly a secret?

-Chris-

triple-M wrote: »

keep d txt tlk 4 ur fone

Rprt ne psts u dont lyk de luk of pls

Stokolan

from Quinns motor policy book

Driving other cars
If your certificate of insurance says so, we will also cover
you, the policyholder, for your liability to other people while
you are driving any other private motor car which you do
not own or have not hired or leased, as long as:
1 the vehicle is not owned by your employer or hired to them
under a hire-purchase or lease agreement;
2 you currently hold a full European Union (EU) licence;
3 the use of the vehicle is covered in the certificate of
insurance;
4 cover is not provided by any other insurance;
5 you have the owner’s permission to drive the vehicle;
6 the vehicle is in a roadworthy condition; and
7 you still have your vehicle and it has not been damaged
beyond cost-effective repair

This extension applies while being driven within the
territorial limits and only to private passenger vehicles. It
does not include:
• vans;
• car-vans;
• jeep-type vehicles with no seats in the back; or
• vans adapted to carry passengers.

So it seams the car you drive does not need to have insurance on it.

But then the make words are in the first sentance.

thenightrider

Here is what Quinn Direct say about drive other cars


"The policyholder if they have a full EU licence,may also drive, with the permission of the owner ,any Private Motar Car that they do not own and have not hired or leaced subject to the terms and conditions of the policy."

Ok here is the T+C for driveing an other car

• The vehicle is not owned by your employer or hired to you/them under a hire-purchase or lease agreement;
• You currently hold a full European Union (EU) licence;
• The use of the vehicle is covered in the certificate of insurance;
• Cover is not provided by any other insurance;
• You have the owner’s permission to drive the vehicle;
• The vehicle is in a roadworthy condition;
• You still have your vehicle and it has not been damaged beyond cost-effective repair; and
• Your occupation is not restricted by our acceptance criteria.

frandman

thenightrider wrote: »

Here is what Quinn Direct say about drive other cars


"The policyholder if they have a full EU licence,may also drive, with the permission of the owner ,any Private Motar Car that they do not own and have not hired or leaced subject to the terms and conditions of the policy."

Ok here is the T+C for driveing an other car

• The vehicle is not owned by your employer or hired to you/them under a hire-purchase or lease agreement;
• You currently hold a full European Union (EU) licence;
• The use of the vehicle is covered in the certificate of insurance;
• Cover is not provided by any other insurance;
• You have the owner’s permission to drive the vehicle;
• The vehicle is in a roadworthy condition;
• You still have your vehicle and it has not been damaged beyond cost-effective repair; and
• Your occupation is not restricted by our acceptance criteria.

Thanks for putting that straight

guil

i'm nearly certain what they mean by Cover is not provided by any other insurance
is that no other insurance company is providing cover for you on that particualr car

anyway when i was with quinn it didnt matter if the car you were driving was insured or not as long as ya met the other requirements

Avns1s

Avns1s wrote: »

Car must also be insured by the owner to allow you to have cover under your own policy. That bit of information is missing from the OP.

Nope, not in all cases, depends on the insurer.

Atlantic Dawn

Keep the receipt from the towing company and go down the legal route through the Ombudsman for reimbursement and damages.

martinr5232

Avns1s wrote: »

Traders are supposed to have a plate and the insurance follows the plate which must be displayed front and rear on the car being driven. I think the cover only extends to business hours or close to it too.

You think wrong Trade plates cover you for Motor Tax on the car you are driving you should have one green plate front and rear.

But Motor Traders Insurance Policy is differant you have a normal insurance disc but it has the company name on it instead of a registration and it can either cover you for buissnes hours or most likely buissnes /social domestic and pleasure.

yardeyar

djimi wrote: »

Did you get the Guards details? Go to his(/her) station and complain to their supervisor. Failing that contact the Garda ombudsman and make a complaint.

http://www.gardaombudsman.ie/gsoc-garda-ombudsman-complaints.htm

Hi Frandman, sorry to hear for your trouble with the car taken of you by the police, anyway someone suggested you should contact the Ombudsman, I know I'm going of the subject a little but here is a quick story, a few years ago about 10am I was threatened walking along a street in Dublin, I saw a Garda car and I wave at it, I made eye contact with the Garda in the passenger seat, the car never stopped. I rang the local station a few hours later and was told, "we'll ring you back" but they never did, so I contacted the Garda Ombudsman and after they investigated the case they informed me "That a Garda isn't obliged to stop", so my point is I dont have faith in the Ombudsman. Best of luck.
YEAH!

MarkoC

yardeyar wrote: »

"That a Garda isn't obliged to stop"

Sry for OT but that is some serious JOKE like in Nigeria ...

frandman

yardeyar wrote: »

Hi Frandman, sorry to hear for your trouble with the car taken of you by the police, anyway someone suggested you should contact the Ombudsman, I know I'm going of the subject a little but here is a quick story, a few years ago about 10am I was threatened walking along a street in Dublin, I saw a Garda car and I wave at it, I made eye contact with the Garda in the passenger seat, the car never stopped. I rang the local station a few hours later and was told, "we'll ring you back" but they never did, so I contacted the Garda Ombudsman and after they investigated the case they informed me "That a Garda isn't obliged to stop", so my point is I dont have faith in the Ombudsman. Best of luck.
YEAH!

Ye thanks for the advice. I dont hav much faith in the ombudsman meself heard a few storys about people who have complained and nothing came of it. I still have the slip of paper he gave me when he took the car with his details on it so im going to go ahead and complain.

frandman

-Chris- wrote: »

Rprt ne psts u dont lyk de luk of pls

lol

ninty9er

What offence was the car seized for.

Being an uninsured vehicle driven on a public road?

or

Non display of an insurance disc?

Both are different offences.

frandman

ninty9er wrote: »

What offence was the car seized for.

Being an uninsured vehicle driven on a public road?

or

Non display of an insurance disc?

Both are different offences.

Reason giving was not displaying insurance, He then went on to say i
wasnt insured in the car because it wasnt covered under its own policy.
im begining to think he just didnt like a young lad driving a nice car?

rex-x

listermint wrote: »

This is not true, read the details of your policy again mate. youve read it wrong.

you are 100% wrong I checked my policy

Bazzo

ninty9er wrote: »

What offence was the car seized for.

Being an uninsured vehicle driven on a public road?

or

Non display of an insurance disc?

Both are different offences.

taken from another thread:

According to the Road Traffic Act 1994 Sect 41 the circumstances under which a Gárda has the power to seize the car are:
a) if the thinks you're too young to hold a licence and you can't produce one on demand to prove otherwise
b) if he thinks you're an Irish resident driving a foreign registered car
c) motor tax expired by 2 months (as ammended from the 3 months quoted in the Act)

I don't think the gard had any right to seize the car, and at the very least he should be reimbursed for it.

GerardKeating

MarkoC wrote: »

In democratic countries usually they have to prove that you are guilty, not that you have to prove you're not.

Presumption of innocence is usually found in countries that follow English Common law.

Countries that follow Napoleonic code (most of mainland Europe) do it different.

Senna

Every time this "driving other cars" exemption comes up, people always say it depends on the insurer whither the other car has to be insured or not. But I've never come across a company that asked for it, and I've been with a good few and i always check when taking out the policy.

langdang

So, for the sake of a summary:
If the OP hasn't left anything out, "he wuz robbed" by the look of things - I though they gave up on being that blatant about things after Donegal?

AND (because people always come on and say "you're never covered under 3rd party extension unless the owner of the car also has insurance")
it looks like the following companies insure the driver (and cover him/her for any other car so long as it's not a blatant insurance scam or unroadworthy ball of poo or robbed)
Aviva
Axa
Quinn (in fairness, they seemed to be making it up as they went along any time I rang them, maybe not a good example)
NoNonsense (and presumably FBD)

Reason enough to go with any of them if there's only a few euro in it... big help when hopping from banger to banger

angelfire9

Funnily enough I am insured with AXA and was told having asked the question that I will only be covered driving other cars if the other car does not belong to me or my husband and has insurance in its own right
Will dig up policy in the morning