Why do saloon cars not have a wiper on the back window???

censuspro

Does anyone know the reason for this?

corktina

because the spray lands on the boot not on the window....not necessary in other words.

sean1141

some do.. not many do

EPM

Saves money too...

censuspro

corktina wrote: »

because the spray lands on the boot not on the window....not necessary in other words.

Is that the real reason? I thought most people would want a wiper on the back window considering it rains so much in Ireland?

Testament1

censuspro wrote: »

Is that the real reason? I thought most people would want a wiper on the back window considering it rains so much in Ireland?

Honestly I dont think back window wipers are necessary on any car. I have one on my car and I'd say I only ever used it once since I got the car over a year ago.

mondeo

This is a good question......

johnos1984

The reason is pretty simple.

The wiper arrangement (the motor especially) takes up too much room at the boot opening and impeded the access to the boot.

Due to cost/benefit it would of cost too much money for what it was worth

Japanesse cars had them fitted most notably the Impreza and Mazda 323 but they were removed for the above reason

cson

The oul wan's C-Max has one and it's a fairly recent model.

Bit pointless if you ask me; use your wing mirrors tbh.

johnos1984

cson wrote: »

The oul wan's C-Max has one and it's a fairly recent model.

Thats not a SALOON;)

delta_bravo

My Skoda Octavia (06) has one. I would use it from time to time.

johnos1984

delta_bravo wrote: »

My Skoda Octavia (06) has one. I would use it from time to time.

Thats also not a SALOON

Just to clear up before anyone points out why can h/b's have one and saloons not if it impedes acsess etc.

The motor has to be mounted lower down so that the spindle points in an up ward direction so it can make it out through the back window for the wiper to operate.

In a hatchback the wiper can be mounted on the boot itself however in a saloon it must run through the window hence more space is needed for mounting the necessary equipment

peasant

The rear wiper is not there to wipe off rain (like on the front windscreen) but to wipe of the excessive spray (and muck and dirt) that collects on the back windows of hatchbacks and estates.

The airflow over hatchbacks/estates tears off at the roofline, creating a vortex behind the car that sucks up spray and muck and deposits it on the rear hatch and window ...occasionally this needs to be wiped off.

Saloon cars have different airflow, no muck gets sucked up and at speed the back window is kept reasonably clear.

johnos1984

peasant wrote: »

Saloon cars have different airflow, no muck gets sucked up and at speed the back window is kept reasonably clear.

Indeed another reason why they aren't really necessary.

See Citroens Convex/Concave rear window design (I can't remember which it is off the top of my head)

Nissan doctor

As has been said, its due to the fact that on saloon cars the rear window is away from the area of vacume behind the car and so no road grime is sucked onto the window.

Its nothing to do with the space the motor takes up as on the few saloon cars that have them(as also said, mainly japs) the motor is in under the parcel shelf and doesn't intrude into anywere.

biko

Good question! I really miss the rear wiper I had on my last cars. Particularly in winter with fecking snow/ice melting off but not getting blown away in city traffic.

L1011

johnos1984 wrote: »

Indeed another reason why they aren't really necessary.

See Citroens Convex/Concave rear window design (I can't remember which it is off the top of my head)

The Ami. The C4 Coupe tries to 'echo' this design, but backwards so it has probably the worlds smallest rear wiper...

johnos1984

Nissan doctor wrote: »

Its nothing to do with the space the motor takes up as on the few saloon cars that have them(as also said, mainly japs) the motor is in under the parcel shelf and doesn't intrude into anywere.

I disagree having actually asked people about this before.

The reason about airflow is very valid however what happens when you have just set in your car and wish to reverse only to find you can't see out the back window due to rain?

Its all to do with packaging and feasibility. Why they don't sort it is beyond me as it is very handy.

JDM cars have them for convience but most people don't seem to mind and yes the aerodynamics play a big part in keeping the window clear/clean anyway hence the manufacturers don't have to include the costs of developing and manufacturing the parts. Its a small part but as it requires motors and a specific window design it wouldn't be cheap.

TBH its a mix of the wiper not being necessary and the cost of fitting the motor and space needed.

In other words it just easier not to! Not arguing with anyone on this its a case of all the reasons put together

johnos1984

MYOB wrote: »

The Ami. The C4 Coupe tries to 'echo' this design, but backwards so it has probably the worlds smallest rear wiper...

The C6 and CX o the past had it and by all accounts its very good but obviously the glass is expensive to produce

vectra

johnos1984 wrote: »

The reason is pretty simple.

The wiper arrangement (the motor especially) takes up too much room at the boot opening and impeded the access to the boot.

johnos1984 wrote: »

Thats not a SALOON;)

johnos1984 wrote: »

Thats also not a SALOON

My year 2000 Nissan Primera SALOON had one fitted as standard equipment

Same as this one >>

johnos1984

An Octavia and C-Max are not saloons

And if you look at my first post I said some Jap cars did have them

I listed Mazda 323's, Subarus

Its hard to remember that model of Primera at the best of times

EDIT: I'll make an exception for the GT

vectra

johnos1984 wrote: »

Its hard to remember that model of Primera at the best of times

Can't see why. There were as many of those on the road as there was 323's

johnos1984

vectra wrote: »

Can't see why. There were as many of those on the road as there was 323's

The 323 was a neighbours car that stuck in my head from childhood.

Bland couldn't describe it. It was beige I think just to complete the look

Funny they also had a Nissan Prairie in white, now thats a hard one to remember

kelle

I've only ever driven hatchbacks so I'm used to a rear wiper - I refuse to buy or drive a saloon as I hate the fact I can't see from it clearly on a rainy day.

I often asked that question but never got an answer - never thought to ask Boards!

ThisRegard

johnos1984 wrote: »

An Octavia ......are not saloons

By name only, it's the same basic shape as a saloon with the sloping rear window and flat boot so it's basically a saloon for the purpose of this argument.

From owning several saloons and several hatchbacks I never felt the need for a rear wiper on the saloons (including the Octavia) but it's a neccessity on the hatchbacks. As has been said due to the wind vortex the rear windows can get filthy pretty quick on the hatchbacks but never as bad on the saloons.

johnos1984

ThisRegard wrote: »

By name only it's the same basic shape as a saloon with the sloping rear window and flat boot so it's basically a saloon for the purpose of this argument.

No it isn't as the boot area is very short in comparison to a saloon.

The whole boot panel and rear window lift ergo it is a hatchback or liftback.

In your reckoning any large 5 door hatchback can be described as a saloon, anything from a Renault Laguna to a Mondeo

Now if the salesman sold it as a saloon to you....

ThisRegard

As I said for the point of this argument it can be said to be a saloon as it's not a hatchback in the traditional sense which has a flat horizontal back, that small boot lip makes all the difference in that it doesn't suffer the same problems of collecting spray and muck on the rear window almost as soon as roads get wet.

It's all about the shape of the car.

stimpson

I use Rain-x on my rear window. The rain runs straight off and there is always visibility. Always wondered about it myself. I've always driven hatches up to now and I really miss the rear wiper.

johnos1984

I know what your saying

I have mostly driven saloons but I did have an 05 Octavia and found the rear window got dirtier far more than the saloons. The wiper was necessary. My current Passat's rear window stays very clean

Loved having the wiper though

johnos1984

stimpson wrote: »

I use Rain-x on my rear window. The rain runs straight off and there is always visibility. Always wondered about it myself. I've always driven hatches up to now and I really miss the rear wiper.

+1

great stuff

ThisRegard

Coming from hatchbacks to the Octavia the Octavias rear window remained sparking in comparison !

johnos1984

ThisRegard wrote: »

Coming from hatchbacks to the Octavia the Octavias rear window remained sparking in comparison !

Its like Mammys home cooking, its what your used to

alias no.9

I've had two saloons, a P11 Primera which had a wiper and most definitely needed it, and an Alfa 156 which didn't have a wiper and didn't need one.

Blue850

Not all MK1 Octavias had a rear wiper.

Lancia produced a saloon in the 50s with twin rear wipers

One of my (few) pet hates is folks who drive about with their rear wiper on constantly or on intermittent, it's sofakingweetoddad carry on.

johnos1984

The last Camry estate available in ireland had two rear wipers also

Max_Damage

This Ford Orion on Donedeal does:

eljono

AFAIK Phase One UK spec 306 Sedans had rear wipers but the Irish equivalents didn't.

My previous car was a saloon and there were loads of times I could have done with a rear wiper. Use it regularly now on my HB.

Also, rain sensing front wipers ftw, no more fiddling with the wiper stalk during randomly intermittent rain

corktina

Blue850 wrote: »

Not all MK1 Octavias had a rear wiper.

Lancia produced a saloon in the 50s with twin rear wipers

Is that the same as their tanks allegedly having 5 speeds in reverse?

langdang

johnos1984 wrote: »

In your reckoning any large 5 door hatchback can be described as a saloon, anything from a Renault Laguna to a Mondeo
Now if the salesman sold it as a saloon to you....

In fairness, even people who's job it is to sell cars can't figure out hatchback v saloon. Painful looking through carzone sometimes.

Just got a saloon after every other car being a hatchback/liftback - really miss that wiper, must lash some rainx on now after seeing other posts.

ToxicPaddy

*sigh* I remember my first saloon car years ago and spending a good week after I first got it trying to figure out how to turn on the rear wiper, even checking the owners manual.. only to realise that the car didnt have one.. oops!! :P:D

GeneHunt

eljono wrote: »

AFAIK Phase One UK spec 306 Sedans had rear wipers but the Irish equivalents didn't.

My previous car was a saloon and there were loads of times I could have done with a rear wiper. Use it regularly now on my HB.

Also, rain sensing front wipers ftw, no more fiddling with the wiper stalk during randomly intermittent rain

Great question/ thread.

I had the 306 Sedan and i broke the rear window (long story:rolleyes:) but i tried to replace the window with a window that had a hole for the wiper as the car was wired for the wiper motor. I would've had to wait a week or so to get this window in as it wasn't stocked in Ireland, so I didn't get it. My next car was a saloon again a Peugeot 406 and the 406 (phase one - not sure on the phase two model) was also a car to have a rear wiper on the UK spec.

As some people here think that fitting a rear wiper to a saloon impedes on the boot space/ access. It doesn't as the rear wiper mechanism is above the boot space on the pancel shelf, the seat belt reel for the centre seat is also located there.

I agree with eljono there were loads of times I would have used the rear wiper on the saloon cars I had. I partners car is currently a Opel Vectra liftback and if the windscreen wipers are running and you then engage reverse the rear wiper will do a single wiper of the rear window - this is a very handy feature.

The rain sensing windscreen wipers are the business and not just because of "no more fiddling with the wiper stalk during randomly intermittent rain" (which is a plus) but also as a safety feature, you'll not get the wipers on faster than a sensor, if you're hit with spray from a passing lorry!!!:eek:

limklad

stimpson wrote: »

I use Rain-x on my rear window. The rain runs straight off and there is always visibility. Always wondered about it myself. I've always driven hatches up to now and I really miss the rear wiper.

I used it myself, way better with heavy miss & road sprays. much clearer view. I also use their internal windows anti-fog. It does the job, great in wet and cold weather but I have to apply it more often than the external stuff.

langdang

limklad wrote: »

I used it myself, way better with heavy miss & road sprays. much clearer view. I also use their internal windows anti-fog. It does the job, great in wet and cold weather but I have to apply it more often than the external stuff.

Would the external stuff not work just as well or better inside? Anyone try this?

benj

saloon cars with rear wipers look stupid :eek: