Carnmoney Hill DAB online

Sam the Aerialman

Carnmoney Hill 12B DAB services came online this morning.

J336829 - 3.2KW

Peter Henderson

Sam the Aerialman wrote: »

Carnmoney Hill 12B DAB services came online this morning.

J336829 - 3.2KW

Signal strength is now much improved Sam. Excellent.

If only we could have more stations. Roll on 2012.

Mike 1972

Any word RE: DTT from the same site or is it on hold until ASO ?

Sam the Aerialman

Mike 1972 wrote: »

Any word RE: DTT from the same site or is it on hold until ASO ?

November 2012 with Divis and it's 26 relays.

Peter Henderson

Mike 1972 wrote: »

Any word RE: DTT from the same site or is it on hold until ASO ?

Unfortunately Mike, Carnmoney Hill will also be a Freeview Lite transmitter.

The number of radio stations from Freeview on Divis is now actually quite good. Since Capital Radio London, and London's Heart came on a couple of weeks ago, it now has 26. More than DAB's measly offering.

It's just a pity there aren't Freeview Radio receivers available.

As far as I know, Digital Radio on Freeview is also broadcast at a far higher bit rate than DAB as well.

Sam Russell

Peter Henderson wrote: »

It's just a pity there aren't Freeview Radio receivers available.

As far as I know, Digital Radio on Freeview is also broadcast at a far higher bit rate than DAB as well.

You could always try a Picnic box, it will receive Freeview radio, and has component out.

I am sure you could get one cheap, now they wont receive RTE 2.:D

david23

Peter Henderson wrote: »

As far as I know, Digital Radio on Freeview is also broadcast at a far higher bit rate than DAB as well.

That's only true for the BBC national networks.

BBC Radio Ulster is in mono on Freeview but stereo most of the time on DAB. Heart & Capital are 128k stereo on both DAB* and Freeview. Smooth is in 64k mono on Freeview but 112k stereo on DAB across Great Britain.

* where available

http://www.bsa.talktalk.net/dtt/Bit%20Rates/Radio%20Bitrates.pdf

Sam the Aerialman

Took the Pure Highway up the M2 today and reception is immaculate even on the hill section were even band 2 suffered. Coming into Ballymena Tully Hill Quarry kicks in and covers a fair section of the motorway, Why Tully Hill was brought online before other sites is a mystery. There are other places with more population that require DAB service and i can't imagine that many drivers are equipped to receive the DAB service.

Carnmoney Hill has a new set of dishes for program feeds, i wonder did they eventually get tired of the terrible multipath problems from Divis. Possibly BBC1 and 2 are now sourced from DSAT, effectively means Carnmoney Hill is no longer a relay of Divis in the traditional sense.

lucernarian

I hope they don't leave the Newry area without any DAB transmitter... And the A1 will see more DAB radios than the A4 at Lisbellaw ever will.

Sam the Aerialman

To_be_confirmed wrote: »

I hope they don't leave the Newry area without any DAB transmitter... And the A1 will see more DAB radios than the A4 at Lisbellaw ever will.

I agree with you the planning of these new DAB transmitters seems strange, they should of had Carnmoney Hill upgraded and in service about 2 years ago. All this moaning about frequency availability, what has changed today that was there 2 years ago.

I may have been absolutely wrong about that as the word on the vine is Camlough, Kilkeel or Newcastle could be next in line.

Peter Henderson

I see the BBC Radio Foyle test has now stopped Sam.

I assume this is all it was i.e. a test ?

Would it be possible to transmit RTE Radio nationwide on DAB (in both the ROI and NI) in the same way that the BBC is broadcast throughout the UK on the same frequency ? I assume this is technically feasible ?

At least it would compensate for the fact that we can't get Digital One.

watty

I doubt DAB will be nationwide in Ireland any time soon.

Also in UK a serious disparity between BBC and Commercials. There is talk of a Commercial Anti-DAB campaign.

http://radiotoday.co.uk/news.php?extend.6530.2

lawhec

If I was to take an educated guess about the sequence of the roll out, I'd say it's probably down to additional work that might also be required at some sites at the same time where DAB installations might "jump the queue" as it were to help keep man hours and costs down rather than doing separate installations a few weeks or months apart.

Technically it is possible for RTÉ's 12C multiplex to be rolled out into Northern Ireland, but it might have some coverage restrictions tied to it - the "commercial" equivalent on 12A that is allocated would need restrictions to protect Digital 1 in Scotland.

Carnmoney Hill has a new set of dishes for program feeds, i wonder did they eventually get tired of the terrible multipath problems from Divis. Possibly BBC1 and 2 are now sourced from DSAT, effectively means Carnmoney Hill is no longer a relay of Divis in the traditional sense.

If they're sourcing BBC1 & 2 NI from Astra 2D, I wonder if Ceefax is being reinserted?

byrnefm

Apologies if this is an obvious question - but where is Carnmoney Hill?

Sam the Aerialman

byrnefm wrote: »

Apologies if this is an obvious question - but where is Carnmoney Hill?

Newtownabbey - Its the tower on the right hand side as you head onto the north bound M2. Its a co-sited UHF/ VHF famed for it terrible multipath and RX problems though its a stone throw from Divis.

Sam the Aerialman

lawhec wrote: »

If I was to take an educated guess about the sequence of the roll out, I'd say it's probably down to additional work that might also be required at some sites at the same time where DAB installations might "jump the queue" as it were to help keep man hours and costs down rather than doing separate installations a few weeks or months apart.

Technically it is possible for RTÉ's 12C multiplex to be rolled out into Northern Ireland, but it might have some coverage restrictions tied to it - the "commercial" equivalent on 12A that is allocated would need restrictions to protect Digital 1 in Scotland.


If they're sourcing BBC1 & 2 NI from Astra 2D, I wonder if Ceefax is being reinserted?

Which is why it's been considered moving the Scottish 12A block onto 11D in line with England and Wales. Launching a national Scottish network on 12A and allowing 11D to be used in Northern Ireland after Ch11 closes in the South.

I imagine the Ceefax service will be inserted as packet data through the distribution network probably on BT circuitry.

lawhec

Sam the Aerialman wrote: »

Newtownabbey - Its the tower on the right hand side as you head onto the north bound M2. Its a co-sited UHF/ VHF famed for it terrible multipath and RX problems though its a stone throw from Divis.

I remember staying in the area during my student days several years ago just off the Shore Road a couple of miles from UUJ, no big problems receiving Divis in terms of signal strength, but the ghosting/multipath was horrendous. Strangely Channel 5 (from Black Mountain) suffered far less from this problem, as did the transmissions from Clermont Carn which were weak but pretty much clean of multipath.

Sam the Aerialman

This has been the RX setup in the last few years. 4 bayed band 2 yagi's required just to clean up the FM stereo, bare in mind the proximity of Divis belting out 250Kw on both polarisations. Not to mention the high gain 18 element Jaybeam, it was 4 bayed logs at one stage from what i recall.

Mike 1972

Carnmoney hill is to the North of Belfast. Even though the main Divis/Black Mountain transmitters are only a few miles away (and in the case of Divis has viewers up to 200 miles away) parts of North Belfast and Newtownabbey have poor reception due to various hills in the way. The Carnmoney hill relay has been there since the 405 line days and relays most (not all) FM radio and UHF TV services from Divis/Blackmountain to the affected area.

Prior to the establishment of this relay some viewers in the area had better reception of Scottish TV (BBC Scot/ITV Border) than the local services

watty

Some had ONLY Scottish Reception.

I have relatives near Divis, Whitehead and Larne. None get Divis or Freeview.

Digifriendly

Mike 1972 wrote: »

Carnmoney hill is to the North of Belfast. Even though the main Divis/Black Mountain transmitters are only a few miles away (and in the case of Divis has viewers up to 200 miles away) parts of North Belfast and Newtownabbey have poor reception due to various hills in the way. The Carnmoney hill relay has been there since the 405 line days and relays most (not all) FM radio and UHF TV services from Divis/Blackmountain to the affected area.

Prior to the establishment of this relay some viewers in the area had better reception of Scottish TV (BBC Scot/ITV Border) than the local services

I know Divis reaches Dublin and beyond and into Scotland but 200 miles - is that as the crow flies? If so can you give any examples?

Mike 1972

There are hilltop locations in the West/Midlands of Ireland where Divis is recieved at that range yes. Most of the recepiants at that range have been cable headends and deflector sysyems but there is/have been the odd privately owned "Chicken wire parabolic" picking it up too.

Sam the Aerialman

Mike 1972 wrote: »

There are hilltop locations in the West/Midlands of Ireland where Divis is recieved at that range yes. Most of the recepiants at that range have been cable headends and deflector sysyems but there is/have been the odd privately owned "Chicken wire parabolic" picking it up too.

Yes Keeper Hill in Limerick springs to mind.

Both are pulling in the UHF signals from NI. One set is for Divis, and the other is for Brougher both very long hauls. I believe that the signals were originally supertrunked into Limerick for the CATV system, but later they were re-transmitted by MMDS from Keeper Hill itself which probably also replaced the supertrunk cable feed. If i remember rightly Slieve Bawn and Seefin Mountain ran off air, one had a 6 GHz microwave link to somewhere north of Dungarvan and re-transmitted at 2.4GHz link and used Divis & Presely from what i recall.

watty

Those aerials not used for a LONG time now. Replaced by 1st private microwave link, from a pickup point in Cavan.

There was alleged to be a 3rd set on Keeper for Presley. Those two sets were twisted wrecks when I was last on site there about 5 years ago.

Sam the Aerialman

watty wrote: »

Those aerials not used for a LONG time now. Replaced by 1st private microwave link, from a pickup point in Cavan.

There was alleged to be a 3rd set on Keeper for Presley. Those two sets were twisted wrecks when I was last on site there about 5 years ago.

Bare in mind its been 20 years since i was on Keeper Hill. I'm not surprised technology moves on, both sets of bayed arrays were there in 2006, i presume defunct and left to rot.

From what i recall there was never a set on Presely i remember tests were carried out to do with Llandonna. Seefin Mountain was using Presely the four Welsh UHF signals were converted to Band 3 and sent via coax down into Dungarvin. I recall several bits of strategically placed tinfoil were dangled to discourage co-channel reception from other directions!

watty

I couldn't find any evidence of a Presley set. Hence the "alleged".

Really the Cavan Microwave link is obsolete a long time now.

Mike 1972

Sam the Aerialman wrote: »

I recall several bits of strategically placed tinfoil were dangled

On the side of a mountain How long did it last

Sam the Aerialman

Mike 1972 wrote: »

On the side of a mountain How long did it last

I'm not kidding either. The rx site was in a brick hut, on the top of Seefin Mountain. There was a single high gain aerial positioned inside the hut, pointing out through a fibreglass shutter type window.

Mr. Rabbit

I gather there are plans to decommission comercial DAB transmitters at Black Mountain and Colinward Mountain, and switch both to Divis and Carnmoney Hill respectively.

Digital One has also indentified a number of transmitter sites for use in the province. One of these is apparently going to be Carnmoney Hill.