Help with cholesterol?

JackieO

Ok, the situation is as follows. My OH (who's in his late 30's) has been battling high cholesterol for a few years. His cholesterol was over 7 at one point and he has worked hard to bring that down. At one point around 2 years ago his cholesterol came back at 5.2 - last year it was 6.6 and now his last test was 6.5. (Sorry, I don't have the break-down of those numbers).

I'm at a loss to know what to do next. The doc has given him 3 months to reduce it or else he's putting him on statins. I really really do not want him on statins as I've read so many bad things about them and there seems to be so many unknown side effects. Of course, he won't listen to me as he thinks that the doctor knows best and will take his word no matter what he says.

So here are the things he has done so far:

• Lost weight (3 stone)
• Regular exercise (1 hour per day)
• Uses flora heart butter and benecol drinks
• Takes a vitamin B complex supplement
• Taking cod live oil supplement
• Cut back alcohol (has drinks maybe once a month now)
• Healthy diet (very little rubbish/take aways)

I really don't know what else he can do in the next 3 months that will improve his cholesterol dramatically but I can't stand the thought of him being on statins for the rest of his life!!

Had anyone any additional suggestions?

Ciaran500

Outline his diet in some detail.

cormie

Apple Cider Vinegar is supposed to be very good at maintaining a balanced cholesterol (and also has many other benefits and you may see improvements elsewhere too). Try and get this one in your local health shop: http://www.planetorganic.com/biona-organic-apple-cider-vinegar.html you can't get much better than that, being "Fresh pressed, unpasteurised, unfiltered, oak matured." For information on how to take it, read some user suggestions here: http://www.earthclinic.com/CURES/cholesterol.html

Mountjoy Mugger

Snacking on walnuts (in moderation) lowers cholesterol. Fish and white meats of course, porridge, as well as fruit such as apples also help.

siochain

Soluble fibre well proven to reduce LDL. I have used oat bran to successfully reduce cholesterol. Loads of studies and recipes on the net about this stuff.

Soluble fiber also has other benefits keeps you full for ages and great for your bowels.

Red rice yeast is a natural from statin, but a medical practitioner should be consulted about this and like statin’s it should be the last options to use when diet & exercise fail.

foodaholic

Keep away from shellfish such as prawns ect as it raises cholesterol

El_Dangeroso

foodaholic wrote: »

Keep away from shellfish such as prawns ect as it raises cholesterol

Huh? I've never heard that anywhere before.

My advice on how to lower your actual risk of heart attack is pretty much the same as this post.

The only thing I'd probably change is that rather than supplementing with large amounts of omega 3 it's better to reduce your intake of omega 6. The fat in Flora spreads are mostly omega 6, which is scientifically proven to increase the oxidisation of LDL, which is one of the most potent risk-factors for heart attack.

But if you want to get THE most accurate test of risk for heart disease or stroke ask for a lipoprotein(a) test. It kicks the ass of any other test in predictive value.

WildOscar

i read that eating boiled potatoes in their jackets helps. cannot find now. not sure if true

siochain

El_Dangeroso wrote: »

But if you want to get THE most accurate test of risk for heart disease or stroke ask for a lipoprotein(a) test. It kicks the ass of any other test in predictive value.

very true about lipoprotein(a) and this is near impossible to lower if you high levels. A few studies have stated that niacin has some affect.

homocysteine is another good marker for cardio and general health.

timeforachange

I dont want to hijack this thread too much but basically im in a similar situation, only its my mum that has high cholest.
She still has to actually speak with her dr about it as she just got the test results over the phone... but to be honest I have no idea how she's going to bring it down because to me she would have always been so healthy!
I was wondering if I post an idea of her diet here could someone maybe tell me if they think shes going wrong in places? (clearly she is i just dont know how because her cholesterol was at 7 so its quite high).

She walks every day, and I mean a good 2 hour walk (sometimes more).
She is not overweight, although she has recently lost weight but that was a slow progressive thing and she would never have been obese, just had a bit extra to shift and now she has done that.

She eats wheetabix, fruit and low fat yoghurt for breakfast.

Lunch she might have a wrap with cheese, chicken and veg, or brown bread with a little spread (this is probably somewhere she can change things but she wouldn't eat a lot of this just a scrape so although she will change this, I can't see it making a huge difference)

Dinner would be maybe noodles with stir fry chicken and veg and a small amount of satay sauce; or savoury rice with stir fry of veg chicken; or breaded chicken in a wrap and veg; or an omlettee.... she wouldnt have eggs every day but when she does make an omlette she would put 2 eggs in it and would probably have some cheese too so maybe this could be changed.


She snacks a little unhealthily I guess.... she eats quite a few rice cakes, sometimes the ones with yoghurt on them (although after reading the nutritional value on them tonight she's not getting them any more lol) and she eats the snack a jack caramel rice cakes, or maybe salt and vinegar rice cakes.
She also likes fruit pastille ice lollys so might have one of them in the evening quite regularly.
She drinks a lot of green tea but no milk or sugar.

She also eats a lot of this brown bread that she buys.... it has fruit and apricots on it (to me tastes a little like carrot cake although not cake texture but bread) ..... we thought this was really healthy but maybe not??


Sorry again if I am hijacking this thread a little I just didnt want to start a new thread on the same topic...

siochain

timeforachange wrote: »

I dont want to hijack this thread too much but basically im in a similar situation, only its my mum that has high cholest.
She still has to actually speak with her dr about it as she just got the test results over the phone... but to be honest I have no idea how she's going to bring it down because to me she would have always been so healthy!
I was wondering if I post an idea of her diet here could someone maybe tell me if they think shes going wrong in places? (clearly she is i just dont know how because her cholesterol was at 7 so its quite high).

She walks every day, and I mean a good 2 hour walk (sometimes more).
She is not overweight, although she has recently lost weight but that was a slow progressive thing and she would never have been obese, just had a bit extra to shift and now she has done that.

She eats wheetabix, fruit and low fat yoghurt for breakfast.

Lunch she might have a wrap with cheese, chicken and veg, or brown bread with a little spread (this is probably somewhere she can change things but she wouldn't eat a lot of this just a scrape so although she will change this, I can't see it making a huge difference)

Dinner would be maybe noodles with stir fry chicken and veg and a small amount of satay sauce; or savoury rice with stir fry of veg chicken; or breaded chicken in a wrap and veg; or an omlettee.... she wouldnt have eggs every day but when she does make an omlette she would put 2 eggs in it and would probably have some cheese too so maybe this could be changed.


She snacks a little unhealthily I guess.... she eats quite a few rice cakes, sometimes the ones with yoghurt on them (although after reading the nutritional value on them tonight she's not getting them any more lol) and she eats the snack a jack caramel rice cakes, or maybe salt and vinegar rice cakes.
She also likes fruit pastille ice lollys so might have one of them in the evening quite regularly.
She drinks a lot of green tea but no milk or sugar.

She also eats a lot of this brown bread that she buys.... it has fruit and apricots on it (to me tastes a little like carrot cake although not cake texture but bread) ..... we thought this was really healthy but maybe not??


Sorry again if I am hijacking this thread a little I just didnt want to start a new thread on the same topic...

Best thing for you mam to do would be to keep a food diary for one or two weeks and note everything that she eats. Note exercise and stress levels too. Post it back here and get peoples two cents and / or go to a good nutritionist for a full review.

One great starting point is learn to really understand the nutritional content of processed foods and understand ingredients labels.

Avoid anything that contains trans fatty / hydrogenated fats on the label like the plague.

What was and how long ago was her previous reading?

timeforachange

siochain wrote: »

Best thing for you mam to do would be to keep a food diary for one or two weeks and note everything that she eats. Note exercise and stress levels too. Post it back here and get peoples two cents and / or go to a good nutritionist for a full review.

One great starting point is learn to really understand the nutritional content of processed foods and understand ingredients labels.

Avoid anything that contains trans fatty / hydrogenated fats on the label like the plague.

What was and how long ago was her previous reading?

Great idea thanks. We know nothing about this area to be honest so hopefully when the snow goes and we can get out of our house once again and she can get in to her dr shell be more informed.

she got the reading on the phone today, was taken about 10 days ago. it was 7.

El_Dangeroso

siochain wrote: »

very true about lipoprotein(a) and this is near impossible to lower if you high levels. A few studies have stated that niacin has some affect.

homocysteine is another good marker for cardio and general health.

True, Lp(a) has a large genetic component, I wouldn't say impossible to lower though, along with niacin (which I'd never take without doctor's supervision as it can mess with blood sugar levels), sorting out omega 6:3 ratios, thyroid normalisation (interestingly thyroid resistance can be caused by high homocysteine) and DHEA can bring down lp(a).

But most people will never hear about lp(a) cos there's no high-ticket pharmaceutical drug that can lower it like LDL *cough*statins*cough*.

Intermittent fasting is quite effective to bring down homocysteine. This was observed in Muslims during Ramadan when nothing is eating during daylight hours, CRP was also lowered and the effect lasted for weeks afterward.

JackieO

His diet is not too bad.

Porridge for breakfast,
Salad every day (with vinegar)
Red meat only 2 - 3 times a week
Lots of chicken (maybe too much)
Hardly any fish
Plenty of coffee but usually decaff
Plenty of apples and oranges
Not enough veg perhaps
Activia yoghurt every day
Replaced sugar with splenda

He eats cream-crackers rather than biscuits - although I'm pretty sure they are not much better.

He swears by the flora because his doctors heart surgeon recommended it so I'm never going to get him off that stuff.

He never has nuts so I've bought a big selection of nuts for him to snack on.

Also going to try get him eating more seeds - e.g. sunflower, linseed, etc.

As I see this as his last chance before the doctor puts him on the meds I'll try anything else anyone suggests.

Timeforachange - your mothers diet seems brilliant (although maybe not all those rice cakes - i think they are not good) but I can't believe her cholesterol is that high.

I once heard that powdered milk is terrible - so if you get a cappucino out of a machine, say in a garage, they are meant to be really bad for cholesterol - although, I heard that info 3rd hand so I'm not 100% sure. Might be something like that causing the issue.

El_Dangeroso

JackieO wrote: »

His diet is not too bad.

Porridge for breakfast,
Salad every day (with vinegar)
Red meat only 2 - 3 times a week
Lots of chicken (maybe too much)
Hardly any fish
Plenty of coffee but usually decaff
Plenty of apples and oranges
Not enough veg perhaps
Activia yoghurt every day
Replaced sugar with splenda

He eats cream-crackers rather than biscuits - although I'm pretty sure they are not much better.

He swears by the flora because his doctors heart surgeon recommended it so I'm never going to get him off that stuff.

He never has nuts so I've bought a big selection of nuts for him to snack on.

Also going to try get him eating more seeds - e.g. sunflower, linseed, etc.

As I see this as his last chance before the doctor puts him on the meds I'll try anything else anyone suggests.

Timeforachange - your mothers diet seems brilliant (although maybe not all those rice cakes - i think they are not good) but I can't believe her cholesterol is that high.

I once heard that powdered milk is terrible - so if you get a cappucino out of a machine, say in a garage, they are meant to be really bad for cholesterol - although, I heard that info 3rd hand so I'm not 100% sure. Might be something like that causing the issue.

So sad that the heart-surgeon recomended flora

New review of studies out today showing replacing saturated fat with omega 6 vegetable oils actually increases risk of heart attack:

http://journals.cambridge.org/action/displayAbstract?fromPage=online&aid=7930322&fulltextType=RV&fileId=S0007114510004010

Advice to specifically increase n-6 PUFA intake, based on mixed n-3/n-6 RCT data, is unlikely to provide the intended benefits, and may actually increase the risks of CHD and death.

El_Dangeroso

JackieO wrote: »

His diet is not too bad.

Porridge for breakfast,
Salad every day (with vinegar)
Red meat only 2 - 3 times a week
Lots of chicken (maybe too much)
Hardly any fish
Plenty of coffee but usually decaff
Plenty of apples and oranges
Not enough veg perhaps
Activia yoghurt every day
Replaced sugar with splenda

He eats cream-crackers rather than biscuits - although I'm pretty sure they are not much better.

He swears by the flora because his doctors heart surgeon recommended it so I'm never going to get him off that stuff.

He never has nuts so I've bought a big selection of nuts for him to snack on.

Also going to try get him eating more seeds - e.g. sunflower, linseed, etc.

As I see this as his last chance before the doctor puts him on the meds I'll try anything else anyone suggests.

Timeforachange - your mothers diet seems brilliant (although maybe not all those rice cakes - i think they are not good) but I can't believe her cholesterol is that high.

I once heard that powdered milk is terrible - so if you get a cappucino out of a machine, say in a garage, they are meant to be really bad for cholesterol - although, I heard that info 3rd hand so I'm not 100% sure. Might be something like that causing the issue.

So sad that the heart-surgeon recomended flora

New review of studies out today showing replacing saturated fat with omega 6 vegetable oils may actually increase risk of heart attack:

http://journals.cambridge.org/action/displayAbstract?fromPage=online&aid=7930322&fulltextType=RV&fileId=S0007114510004010

Advice to specifically increase n-6 PUFA intake, based on mixed n-3/n-6 RCT data, is unlikely to provide the intended benefits, and may actually increase the risks of CHD and death.

I think your right about powdered milk too, something about the proteins becoming so denatured due to high heat processing, not sure what that would do to the heart but it definitely wouldn't be good for health.

JackieO

Is Benecol butter better? I might (just might) be able to switch him on to that if I'm lucky.

Sapsorrow

El_Dangeroso wrote: »

So sad that the heart-surgeon recomended flora

It really is, sad and very annoying :mad: So many people putting their lives and well-being in the hands of these professionals, so naively unquestioning of their abilities and knowledge

Morris Code

Cant add too much more-I was shocked to be told mine was 8.I have been doing a lot of reading up on cholesterol.Had one library book-name escapes me -guy who wrote has medical background and several times he highly recommended Niacin B3.He went on to write about something called Niacin flush- which is a side effect.There are articles on the web about this-just Google Niacin Flush.
From all I have read they seem to me to be worth a shot-maybe someone on here has better knowledge.I have not tried them yet but intend to.
I have also learned to my cost that spending a little more time in Supermarket checking the fat content on stuff like coleslaw-more then 40%fat in some cases...should have a health warning.

cormie

Would anyone with the high cholesterol like to try the Apple Cider Vinegar, it's very cheap and will benefit more than cholesterol. It would be interesting to see feedback and results from a month or two of using it twice daily.

Blatter

Sapsorrow wrote: »

It really is, sad and very annoying :mad: So many people putting their lives and well-being in the hands of these professionals, so naively unquestioning of their abilities and knowledge

I always said, never ask your doctor about nutritional advice unless they are qualified in that area (most aren't) or actually know what they are talking about. All too often they refer to the 'official' food pyramid of the high carb, low fat diet, which has been proven time and time again to be flawed. Just because they're doctors dosen't mean you have to take EVERYTHING they say at face value, particularly when they are NOT qualified in the area they are giving advice.

JackieO

SOCCER4LIFE wrote: »

I always said, never ask your doctor about nutritional advice unless they are qualified in that area (most aren't) or actually know what they are talking about. All too often they refer to the 'official' food pyramid of the high carb, low fat diet, which has been proven time and time again to be flawed. Just because they're doctors dosen't mean you have to take EVERYTHING they say at face value, particularly when they are NOT qualified in the area they are giving advice.

I totally agree - unfortunately most of my family/friends think I'm losing it when I start giving nutritional advice which contradicts popular beliefs and particularly anything which goes against that which has been advised by a doctor. I've started keeping it to myself and I can't stand the fighting. I feel like a complete whacko half the time!

JackieO

cormie wrote: »

Would anyone with the high cholesterol like to try the Apple Cider Vinegar, it's very cheap and will benefit more than cholesterol. It would be interesting to see feedback and results from a month or two of using it twice daily.

How would you take this and how much per day?

siochain

El_Dangeroso wrote: »

True, Lp(a) has a large genetic component, I wouldn't say impossible to lower though, along with niacin (which I'd never take without doctor's supervision as it can mess with blood sugar levels), sorting out omega 6:3 ratios, thyroid normalisation (interestingly thyroid resistance can be caused by high homocysteine) and DHEA can bring down lp(a).

But most people will never hear about lp(a) cos there's no high-ticket pharmaceutical drug that can lower it like LDL *cough*statins*cough*.

Intermittent fasting is quite effective to bring down homocysteine. This was observed in Muslims during Ramadan when nothing is eating during daylight hours, CRP was also lowered and the effect lasted for weeks afterward.

homocysteine is quite easy to manage.

I would say its near impossible with the lp(a), as you said its really down to genetics how much you produce. Trust me I'm close to someone who has over tens times the normal levels of the stuff, yes tens times. And for anyone who hasn't heard of this stuff the really evil cousin of LDL. niacin had a very slight effect and they were starting with a normal omega 6:3 ratio and balanced thyroid.

I'd be really interested in any studies you have on it. Top coronary specialist in the country only recommend to go on statins to keep LDL as low as possible even though they had good levels already.

siochain

Morris Code wrote: »

I have also learned to my cost that spending a little more time in Supermarket checking the fat content on stuff like coleslaw-more then 40%fat in some cases...should have a health warning.

thats the way to go.

siochain

hey JackieO, whats his stress levels like and any exercise routine?

JackieO

He doesn't really have too much stress in his life, loves his job and is generally quite relaxed.

He spends 1-2 hours a day walking/running and doing some other work in the gym. He is very fit and his exercise is very consistent.

siochain

only thing to go for is more fiber, try oat bran instead of oats for breakfast, adding milled flax seed can be a good way of increasing fiber & omeaga 3, add lots more veg.

When increasing fiber always drink more water

timeforachange

siochain wrote: »

hey JackieO, whats his stress levels like and any exercise routine?

forgive my naivity in this situation, but do stress levels affect cholesterol? Im afraid this might be a big factor in the case of my mum because her stress levels have been very high over the past year and a half.

siochain

sure does, here's a few of many studies


Associations Between Acute Lipid Stress Responses and Fasting Lipid
Levels 3 Years Later
http://www.apa.org/pubs/journals/releases/hea-246601.pdf


Ability to Cope with Stress Can Increase 'Good' Cholesterol in Older White Men, Study Finds
http://www.apa.org/news/press/releases/2007/08/cholesterol.aspx

Mental Stress May be Another Culprit in Raising Cholesterol Levels in Healthy Adults, According to Study
http://www.apa.org/news/press/releases/2005/11/marital-stress.aspx

dxhound2005

cormie wrote: »

Apple Cider Vinegar is supposed to be very good at maintaining a balanced cholesterol (and also has many other benefits and you may see improvements elsewhere too). Try and get this one in your local health shop: http://www.planetorganic.com/biona-organic-apple-cider-vinegar.html you can't get much better than that, being "Fresh pressed, unpasteurised, unfiltered, oak matured." For information on how to take it, read some user suggestions here: http://www.earthclinic.com/CURES/cholesterol.html

The fresh pressed, unpasteurised, unfiltered could be a dodgy according to this (page 2, par 3)

http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m0GCU/is_n6_v14/ai_20152545/?tag=content;col1

OP, I hope the doctor has your OH's best interests at heart and if he/she prescribes statins they will do so weighing the expected benefits against known side effects. I don't know what you mean by unknown side effects.

Sapsorrow

I can't remember the exact stats but I read the results of a meta analysis on RCTs where statins were prescribed to men and women with and without histories of coronary events to see how the risk of future heart attacks and strokes were affected. It found that that statins only exerted a moderate reduction in the risk of future coronary events, in men who had already had a heart attack in the past. Also they were not found to reduce mortality in men regardless of whether they have a history of coronary events or not and they don't reduce the risk of heart attack or stroke in men with no previous history of them at all. So if you are on them simply because of high cholesterol, BP etc there is no indication in the literature that they will reduce your risk of heart attack or death. No protective effects were found in women whatsoever as far as I remember. Can you imagine if a herbal remedy was making such bold claims based on such poor results from RCTs, it would be laughed into oblivion! But the most valuable and widely prescribed drug in the world, well that seems to be a different story. Hmmm wonder why? :rolleyes: It's sad because statins can really make you feel like utter crap too, for the last few eyars of your life. Sick state of affairs really, sometimes I wish I believed in hell so these money grabbing f*ckers would get their dues one day.

moonage

Here's an interesting site about the dangers of LOW cholesterol levels:

http://www.cholesterol-and-health.org.uk/

JackieO

Ok, so casually mentioned to the OH about the statins being maybe not so good for you and the fact that they haven't fully figured out (or felt like disclosing) all the potential side effects - I did not mention my own personal thoughts that they rarely work.

He was very adament in pointing out that I'm not a doc and that the doctor was the best person to advise and that statins had been around long enough to have figured out any side effects.

I nearly requested a divorce on the spot!! God love his innocence. I'm sure its endearing if I wasn't so disappointed about hitting the brick wall!!

Lets just hope that we can get this sorted before the doctor has him on the tablets. Did I mention he is 34?

cormie

dxhound2005 wrote: »

The fresh pressed, unpasteurised, unfiltered could be a dodgy according to this (page 2, par 3)

http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m0GCU/is_n6_v14/ai_20152545/?tag=content;col1

If you read the comments on that article, you may have a different opinion. Anyone can write an article and make it sound convincing if it's given the limelight on a popular page. There's no evidence provided to back up the authors claims, but there's a lot of user submitted results of the positive effects of ACV.

I would suggest trying out ACV for a while, suggested dosages etc are here: http://www.earthclinic.com/CURES/cholesterol.html

Sapsorrow

To be fair, I dont think Earth clinic can exactly be called a reliable source either though, my mum loves that site and has come away with some seriously wishy thinking notions from it. Here's a hint: one of their references is from Wikipedia

El_Dangeroso

siochain wrote: »

homocysteine is quite easy to manage.

I would say its near impossible with the lp(a), as you said its really down to genetics how much you produce. Trust me I'm close to someone who has over tens times the normal levels of the stuff, yes tens times. And for anyone who hasn't heard of this stuff the really evil cousin of LDL. niacin had a very slight effect and they were starting with a normal omega 6:3 ratio and balanced thyroid.

I'd be really interested in any studies you have on it. Top coronary specialist in the country only recommend to go on statins to keep LDL as low as possible even though they had good levels already.

Aw that's too bad, that definitely sounds pretty much all genetic all right, out of interest is the person in question tall, skinny and loves cardio like running or cycling? That's the a-typical genetic Lp(a) type.

Did he ever get a heart scan done? That will allow the doctors to get a calcium score see how much plaque has actually built up. Dr. Davis from the heart scan blog has had some good success reversing heart disease even in individuals with genetic high Lp(a). High Lp(a) doesn't always have to lead to a heart attack or stroke.

cormie

Sapsorrow wrote: »

To be fair, I dont think Earth clinic can exactly be called a reliable source either though, my mum loves that site and has come away with some seriously wishy thinking notions from it. Here's a hint: one of their references is from Wikipedia

Nothing can really be called a reliable source unless it has evidence and research to back it up. I've tried some remedies from the site myself with good results and the fact that it's user driven is good too. Although how many are placebolifical you can't be sure :P

siochain

El_Dangeroso wrote: »

Aw that's too bad, that definitely sounds pretty much all genetic all right, out of interest is the person in question tall, skinny and loves cardio like running or cycling? That's the a-typical genetic Lp(a) type.

Did he ever get a heart scan done? That will allow the doctors to get a calcium score see how much plaque has actually built up. Dr. Davis from the heart scan blog has had some good success reversing heart disease even in individuals with genetic high Lp(a). High Lp(a) doesn't always have to lead to a heart attack or stroke.

lol, very close, only happy when training.

yearly ultrasound on heart and carotid arteries and its been identified young go hopefully it will be managed well

Will look up Dr Davis, cheers.