Caprica S01E18 - the final episode [US] *Spoilers*

Richard Dower

, i'm kinda bummed....while i accept overall Caprica was pretty crap, these final five eps. kinda showed it COULD be good if it wanted to be, alas the tv gods have spoken and we are at the end.

Lets us take a moment and embrace this final ever episode........

Richard Dower

Ep. 18, the finale...is now out.

GSPfan

Do not read my post further as it contains spoilers, you've been warned.


That last episode had some cool moments surrounding the Cylons in the stadium. The add-on ending that filled the last 3 minutes was more confusing than I could imagine.

1) William Adama is not Bill Adama...... WHY? And 1 year after William dies, there is another child in the family who has a full head of hair and can stand up and partake in a naming ceremony! What???

2) Lacy Rand is the spiritual leader of the STO? eh!

3) Clarice Willow is preaching Monotheism to Cylons. I don't know whats going on here. Why are Cylons worried about GOD? They are just Robots.

4) Zoe Graystone has a skin job body. TUT.



If anyone has any sort of insight on this then please share.

They mention "on the anniversary of" but they didn't say it the first anniversary. It is either that or Bill is a skinjob and I doubt they would throw that in at the end for the hell of it.

GSPfan

Ah, it does say anniversary. Don't know why I thought 1 year. I just can't imagine that was the plan for Bill Adama all along. Its just pointless.

I had to re-watch it after you posted. I was convinced something funny was going on too!

I totally agree with you that it was a pointless part of the plot. Perhaps, in a reshuffled order, it was supposed to be a cliffhanger.

2) Lucy rand being the reverend mother? That might have been significant with further plot development but other than being Clarice's boss it really didn't matter.

3) I think they are trying to make the point that the Cylons exceeded their programming and became sentient. They have a bit of Zoe in them too so they're really just rebellious teens at heart.

4) Yeah, they managed to fit in resurrection tanks too

I think the show could have been good but in my opinion they shot themselves in the foot with the pacing. They should have assumed they would only get one season because it seemed like they thought they were in for the long haul.

Richard Dower

That end seemed tagged on, like it was a promo real for Sy-Fy...what would happen in season 2 etc., what the major plot points would be. I'm assuming Bill his human and not a skinjob, it appears the events we saw at the end were possible 5/ years ahead as the Cylons are all I, Robot like (walking dogs....right outta that movie!, Cylons living in containers - check!).

I was confused by some of the end scenes, in one Zoe is sitting with the Cylons in the church, i'm wondering if those church scenes were not V world, like Zor created a virtual home for the Cylons, she said she was god!

It was the best ep. of the entire season, total cracker!....if the rest of the episodes were like this or even the last five....they may have had something.

Richard Dower

baz8080 wrote: »

I had to re-watch it after you posted. I was convinced something funny was going on too!

I totally agree with you that it was a pointless part of the plot. Perhaps, in a reshuffled order, it was supposed to be a cliffhanger.

2) Lucy rand being the reverend mother? That might have been significant with further plot development but other than being Clarice's boss it really didn't matter.

3) I think they are trying to make the point that the Cylons exceeded their programming and became sentient. They have a bit of Zoe in them too so they're really just rebellious teens at heart.

4) Yeah, they managed to fit in resurrection tanks too

I think the show could have been good but in my opinion they shot themselves in the foot with the pacing. They should have assumed they would only get one season because it seemed like they thought they were in for the long haul.

Yeah, i think the producers got arrogant and thought it would be a hit and last 4 seasons, they tried to stretch it out way too much, that tagged on end just where they would have gone if it continued.

Richard Dower

Those last 3 mins, best ending ever!...they gave you the entire plot of upcoming events in three minutes, it wasn't a cliffhanger, it resolved many things, i gave you a very good idea what would happen, either as just a promo reel for season 2 or just an ending to glimpse what would happen, cancellation or not.

Brilliant episode!

The Corinthian

The last three minutes may well have been added to give a feeling to not only the second season, but the rest of the arc. It's also possible that what was shown was expanded upon once cancellation became inevitable.

Ultimately from it you can see where things are likely to conclude, leading to the first Cylon war.

Other observations are:

• Tamara Adama seemed to have been quietly dropped.
• Lacy Rand becoming leader of the STO (or destroying it) was predictable by the end of episode 17.
• The whole William Adama, mark 2, thing makes little sense.

My guess is that they may squeeze a TV movie, perhaps two, out to conclude the story at some stage in the future.

Yakuza

The Corinthian wrote: »

The whole William Adama, mark 2, thing makes little sense.

Caprica was set "58 years before the fall" - Joseph's son was, what, about 12 or so. That would make him about 70 at the time of the mini-series. Having bumped off that William and replaced him with another one much younger (assuming that the preview of S2 was set a few years in the future) would be more consistent with the age of E.J. Olmos at the time of the mini-series (late 50's). It's a bit of a contrived plot device, but there you go.

One thing I can't reconcile - they're driving around in these piece of cr4p 50's cars, yet they have shuttles etc. Almost as if they were trying too hard to separate the technology at the time of "The Fall" from the current series.

The Corinthian

Yakuza wrote: »

Caprica was set "58 years before the fall" - Joseph's son was, what, about 12 or so. That would make him about 70 at the time of the mini-series. Having bumped off that William and replaced him with another one much younger (assuming that the preview of S2 was set a few years in the future) would be more consistent with the age of E.J. Olmos at the time of the mini-series (late 50's). It's a bit of a contrived plot device, but there you go.

At the start of BSG Adama is about to retire. Of course in a technologically advanced society it's pointless to consider what retirement age is or how medicine can slow down aging. TBH, Olmos looks so gnarled that he could pass for 70.

For me it just seemed like sloppy hack writing - which frankly was also in evidence in the last episode or two of BSG.

One thing I can't reconcile - they're driving around in these piece of cr4p 50's cars, yet they have shuttles etc. Almost as if they were trying too hard to separate the technology at the time of "The Fall" from the current series.

You have to suspend disbelief to a great extent in the BSG universe as it does not attempt to create a complete futuristic society from scratch, a la Dune. That a civilization that existed 150,000 years ago would also have 20th century suits and ties is even less believable.

Ronald Moore said in a past interview that it was more about the characters than the tech. Problem is that with Caprica the characters alone could not pull it off.

GSPfan

One thing that really got me about Caprica was that I didn't really like ANY of the characters. The Adama Family (Who ended up pointless in the grand scheme of things) were interesting but they could have killed off any of them at any time and I would have been ok with it.

If I had the choice, I would have rathered that this show was never made. I'm happy its over now because it wasn't very good.

This Blood and Chrome thing is already filling me with dread.

bazz26

Good episode and closure. Last 3 mins were definately an add on considering these episodes were made prior to the show being cancelled where another season was still a possibility.

Stark

Adama was meant to be close to 70 around the time of the miniseries alright.

Tbh, the Adama mark-II thing is exactly what they did with Jimmy Olsen in "Smallville". And you're in very bad territory when you're being compared with "Smallville".

I enjoyed getting a bit of closure but it was very inconsistent. Especially the Zoe skinjob at the end which doesn't tie into BSG at all.

noodler

Hard to aovid the conclusion that the 3 mins ending was readymade in case of cancellation.

The Cylons in the stadium was kind of cool (altho the effects can be a little meh sometimes).

I know it would have gotten better but the producers should have set things in motion earlier.

scoobyjack

noodler wrote: »

The Cylons in the stadium was kind of cool (altho the effects can be a little meh sometimes).

Yeah, it was quite a cool scene. But I found it SO frustrating how slowly the Cylons reacted on finding a target, and how slowly the bombers reacted (or didn't at all) when they saw what was going on.

The way the Cylons used military style hand movements to communicate was absurd as well. They're bloody wireless!

Richard Dower

Season finale now out in 720p...and for those who missed it, the final 5 mins:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R-NLbHzYLM0

"The shape of things to come" is also one of the better tunes on the BSG soundtrack. Didn't really hear anything catchy from Bear McCreary on Caprica.

scoobyjack

scoobyjack wrote: »

The way the Cylons used military style hand movements to communicate was absurd as well. They're bloody wireless!

+1, that was incredibly kitch. I guess if it had to be rationalised it could be said that they'd have to work with human troops *sigh*. It should have been deploy, aim, headshot, over.

spirityboy

ok I'm lost, if it was cancelled why does it say next season and why are people refering to Season 2 or am i just dumber than a doorknob

bazz26

spirityboy wrote: »

ok I'm lost, if it was cancelled why does it say next season and why are people refering to Season 2 or am i just dumber than a doorknob

The Sci-Fi channel cancelled it with still five episodes unaired. The last 5 episodes were aired in Canada and that "next season" bit at the end of the final episode was removed from the aired version.

noodler

baz8080 wrote: »

"The shape of things to come" is also one of the better tunes on the BSG soundtrack. Didn't really hear anything catchy from Bear McCreary on Caprica.

The opening really grew on me as did the Piano at the end of "The Things we Lock away" (just after Graystone had 'killed' the other businessman whose name I have forgotten).

I didn't notice much on bsg until I rewtahced them on DVD though - remember wtaching LDYB Pt1 a second time and notcing that "somethin dark is coming track" - bloody amazing.

dead air

baz8080 wrote: »

+1, that was incredibly kitch. I guess if it had to be rationalised it could be said that they'd have to work with human troops *sigh*. It should have been deploy, aim, headshot, over.

In fairness, it is absurd... but it's televesion. Aim, headshot, over makes perfect sense but I took it as the directors way of making the cylons look like they're co-ordinating, to appear more controlled and less like a robot firing squad (even though that's exactly what they were) and randomly shooting in to the crowd. Also, it adds suspense. I loved when they tracked the last STO guy down and ran up the stadium terrace and hopped him.

I thought the background music during the promo for season 2 was really subtle and sounded really nice. This version of the main theme is quite nice: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CguEY9e2SqQ

Cheers for the link!

Volvagia

I thought it was a great ep, by far the best so far.

The last three minutes, whether they were meant to be a promo for season 2 or a tacked on summary because of the cancellation doesn't really matter to me.

That's the stuff that I wanted to see in the show.

Granted, it didn't all make perfect sense, but I still really enjoyed it.

The first thing that hits me is, is it possible that Zoe is God?

We know from the final scene of BSG, when the "Angels" say something along the lines of "You know she doesn't like that name" when referring to God.

Probably way off with that but the scene where Zoe destroys Heaven and the scene where you see her randomly in the church made me think of it.

I loved the stadium scene, the tension sucked me in.

Can anyone with a better BSG memory than me remind me about where skinjobs came from? The final five made them right, starting with Cavil? The Zoe skinjob, while cool, kind of confused me on that point.

Also, I was thinking, how was Clarice preaching in an open church. Would she not have been arrested since she was a part of the STO / Bomb Plot.

I'm sad this show is dead.

It was different, and didn't start well at all, but I admire them for trying something completely different.

If a DVD movie comes out i'll buy it.

The Corinthian

Volvagia wrote: »

The first thing that hits me is, is it possible that Zoe is God?

Sure it's possible. Is it likely? Not in my opinion.

We know from the final scene of BSG, when the "Angels" say something along the lines of "You know she doesn't like that name" when referring to God.

Actually 'head' Baltar says "you know it doesn't like that name".

Can anyone with a better BSG memory than me remind me about where skinjobs came from? The final five made them right, starting with Cavil? The Zoe skinjob, while cool, kind of confused me on that point.

The BSG 'skinjobs' were biological organisms, indistinguishable from humans, the Zoe 'skinjob' was still metal and plastic, covered in 'skin' to appear human.

In BSG, the final five were 'skinjobs' themselves, having come from the 13th tribe of Cylons, originating on Kobol and later settling on 'Earth'. The final five passed the knowledge of how to bridge the gap from electro-mechanical to biological to the Colonial Cylons, although the latter were well on the way to figure out how to do so themselves (see 'Razor').

One central theme in BSG was that human science would inevitably lead to AI, which in turn would lead to true sentience, evolution to biological organism, conflict and so on - a vicious circle. So with or without the final five, the Colonial Cylons would have reached that point themselves.

Also, I was thinking, how was Clarice preaching in an open church. Would she not have been arrested since she was a part of the STO / Bomb Plot.

Could have easily been a 'virtual' church, especially given the presence of Zoe prior to the final scene where she is given a 'skinjob'.

If a DVD movie comes out i'll buy it.

I'd say we'll see one, perhaps two, TV movies that will effectively cover what would have occurred in the planned seasons 2 and 3.

TonyD79

Very little chance of a DVD movie.

noodler

In fairness, wasn't Clarica on Geminon at the end? So she could just be under Lacy thumb up there rather than be in prison.

Optimus Prime

I remember when caprica started and eric stoltz character was called Daniel Graystone it clicked in my head that one of the cylon models that cavel killed was called daniel, i looked it up and heres what i found. its interesting to read now that caprica is finished, what could have been..

Daniel was the seventh Cylon model created by the Final Five, as revealed in the episode "No Exit". Ellen referred to Daniel as an "artist, and so sensitive to the world". She was very close to Daniel, which enraged Cavil; he felt that Daniel was Ellen's favorite child and became jealous. Cavil poisoned the amniotic fluid being used to mature the Daniel copies and then corrupted Daniel's genetic code. This sabotage meant that no further Daniel copies could be created - an elimination more permanent than the later model-wide boxing of the Number Threes. The Sevens were not mentioned again during Battlestar Galactica's remaining episodes. Because of the destruction of this model line, there were twelve models active throughout the series rather than thirteen.

Because of the nature of the character(s), fans began to speculate that Kara Thrace was a version of the corrupted Seven line, or that her father was. Ronald D. Moore stated in the podcast for "Islanded in a Stream of Stars" that Daniel is merely a plot device to explain the missing number and to expand on Cavil's character (noting that Daniel is essentially the Abel to Cavil's Cain). In the podcast for "No Exit", Moore described the Sevens as a springboard for Caprica, the BSG prequel, where "Daniel" is the name of a main character played by Eric Stoltz; this Daniel is the creator of the Colonial Centurions.

Richard Dower

The "final five" episodes air on SyFy tonite in a marathon.

The Corinthian

TonyD79 wrote: »

Very little chance of a DVD movie.

*Cough*Firefly*Cough*

Optimus Prime

Just read this on aint it cool news

The DVD issued two weeks ago contains a finale commentary by writer-producer Kevin Murphy, who indicates the Vancouver Olympics prevented a first-season episode in which Zoe communed in virtual reality with a member of “Galactica’s” Final Five Cylons. Could have been Saul Tigh! Heartbreaking!) END SPOILERS. If you haven’t heard, Syfy has already greenlit the pilot for “Battlestar Galactica: Blood & Chrome,” which will follow a twentysomething Bill Adama during his Cylon War I adventures.

Volvagia

The Olympics?

Does it explain that in any more detail?

FreudianSlippers

Best episode ever. Really wish we got a 2nd season now that lead us to the 1st Cylon War where Blood and Chrome could pick up.

It would have been amazing to see where Zoe the first skinjob would have taken the monotheists and the Cylons... to see where the final 5 came from etc.

oh well.

Optimus Prime

It would be great if they actually carried over some characters ie zoe into blood and chrome!

Volvagia wrote: »

The Olympics?

Does it explain that in any more detail?

No thats all it says the commentry track on the dvd might explain more.

Richard Dower

Ratings for the "final five": http://tvbythenumbers.zap2it.com/2011/01/11/caprica-ratings-the-final-five-episodes/78163

opinion guy

GSPfan wrote: »

The DVD issued two weeks ago contains a finale commentary by writer-producer Kevin Murphy, who indicates the Vancouver Olympics prevented a first-season episode in which Zoe communed in virtual reality with a member of “Galactica’s” Final Five Cylons.

Dear God(s) ?! That sounds AWFUL!

Hmm the only thing the final missed was Clarice getting terminated with extreme prejudice! That should have happened!

Caprica

After a rather shaky start, the show built to a brilliant conclusion. In the first half of the season everything was slow and ponderous, although I did like the final episode of Part 1, but the second half of the show built very nicely to the extent that I found the final two episodes really gripping. The final few minutes moving in to the future were nice little teasers of what possibly lay ahead.

I really grew to like Amanada Graystone, at the end of the first half I wasn't particularly bothered if she lived or died but in the last few episodes she really came good. I didn't think she had it in her to spy on the Willow household and get away with it. I did laugh when Lacy appeared as head of the church and her telling Clarice to kneel. It also didn't hold back on the violence, some of the scenes were a bit gruesome especially when Marbeth met her end.

What really impressed me in the final episodes was the quality of the writing, I found some of the dialogue very powerful most of it involving the wonderful Clarice. When Zoe was showing her the errors of her ways, when Olaf was talking to her when she announced she was not going to the stadium and when she was preaching to the Cylons (I took it the church was on Geminon)

I always assumed that Cylons were religious/spirtual due to the fact that Zoe was part of their make up and that was why in the BSG universe they always mentioned the one but maybe not. I stuck with this show out of loyalty to BSG but in the end it really delivered and I was glad I gave it the chance.

brownacid

I just finished watching Caprica, I was a little dissapointed. I called willy adama being killed off at the mid season interval, I reckoned he was too old at the time of Caprica taking place, also he seemed a bit soft.

I thought that the writers were setting Tamara up to have something to do with the cylons, especially after she befriended Zoe. I think it would just be a bit chilling if Adama's sister was responsible for the downfall of his civilisation.