Amhran Nua Developments

simonj

Recently Amhran Nua held meetings with democratic reform, the Irish democrats and the irish liberal party with a view to possible co-operation or amalgamation.

The initial points made included that none of the other parties had any real policies, support or experience, and they all said they would be happy enough to join AN as long as the name was changed.

It was suggested that control of AN and policies be handed to an executive committee.

This wouldn't be acceptable or fair to AN members if an axe were taken to our extensive body of over three hundred well researched policy points after that. There us also the lesson to be learned from what happened to the Green Party

Democratic Reform (Frank Chaney) stated that he could not join any party which would run MEPs, so he bowed out after being told that wasn't something we could offer.

The Irish Democratic Party had two major issues, one with the party name and the other with our focus on instating a party list system like 99% of the other countries with proportional representation.

AN felt trying the risk of perpetuating parish pump politics as per their policies (including abolishing the office of Taoiseach) was the exact opposite of what the country needed, they decided the ideological differences were too great.

The Irish Liberal Party are effectively a Libertarian group, and in fairness they gave the most thorough going-over to our policies.

After discussions on the ins and outs of the way that we are a non-dogmatic group who cannot sign up to liberal policies alone, but will also use instruments from socialist policies (whichever tool is best for the job), again they decided the ideological differences were too great, despite being 90% in agreement with our policies.

One example was that nationalisation of any industry was not acceptable the ILP, which flies in the face of our telcos policy.
We also are looking at public private partnerships in relation to renewable energy projects to create a real stimulus package and the renegotiation of the Shell gas deal.

So that's the upshot, we have to say it was a genuine pleasure to be dealing with people who were doing more than sitting around crying about things, and having passed on much of our experiences over the last year and a half, We hope they will be better equipped than the other dozen or so small parties and groups which have appeared and vanished over that time period.

Our expectation is that the ILP and IDP may merge in the near future.

jimmycrackcorm

So to surmise the long-windedness: No developments at all....

Dannyboy83

Just one question - on what grounds were others objecting to the name?

Personally, I do not like the fact that the name is in Irish and I imagine this will be a critical stumbling block for the future of the party. That sounds petty/far-fetched I know, but people won't vote for FG because they happen to dislike Enda's personality or image, so it's not so petty as it may seem.

People want change and political parties with English names are a very significant symbolic change, they've got the x-factor right now.

deise go deo

Dannyboy83 wrote: »

Just one question - on what grounds were others objecting to the name?

Personally, I do not like the fact that the name is in Irish and I imagine this will be a critical stumbling block for the future of the party. That sounds petty/far-fetched I know, but people won't vote for FG because they happen to dislike Enda's personality or image, so it's not so petty as it may seem.

People want change and political parties with English names are a very significant symbolic change, they've got the x-factor right now.

Irish is popular these days. The name being in Irish is anything but a hindrance,
Why don't you go and read AN's Irish policy and see what you think about it, I don't think they are afraid of Irish.

Parties with Englsh names? You mean An Pháirtí an Lucht Oibre? Cant think of any others, You honestly think they are geting support for having an English name?
:D

Dyr

deise go deo wrote: »

Irish is popular these days. The name being in Irish is anything but a hindrance,
Why don't you go and read AN's Irish policy and see what you think about it, I don't think they are afraid of Irish.

Other than the danger of being nicknamed Moron Nua. Remember Democratic Leftovers? No Agenda? Progressive Desocrats?

simonj

jimmycrackcorm wrote: »

So to surmise the long-windedness: No developments at all....

No Jimmy, development and talks are going ahead - we are meeting more like minded people, most of whom agree on the need for electoral reform.

Its better than sitting on the fence complaining

jimmycrackcorm

Dannyboy83 wrote: »

Just one question - on what grounds were others objecting to the name?
.

Probably because people would think they would be voting for a Eurovision entry instead.

Rebelheart

Dannyboy83 wrote: »

Personally, I do not like the fact that the name is in Irish and I imagine this will be a critical stumbling block for the future of the party. That sounds petty/far-fetched I know.

Petty is an understatement. Jaundiced and backward is getting nearer the truth. But yet another reason to not vote for your Fine Gael party.

The name being in Irish is one of the most refreshing things about Amhrán Nua.

Rebelheart

Dannyboy83 wrote: »

People want change and political parties with English names are a very significant symbolic change, they've got the x-factor right now.

Hilarious! By your logic we should have another "very significant symbolic change" and prevent English-speaking monoglots like Ahern, McCreevy and the rest of them from being in power, not to mention those English-speaking civil servants who, using English, got us into this mess. Getting rid of anybody with an English name, in other words, would be a "very significant symbolic change".

Or maybe you've just changed the rules again to support your anti-Irish language prejudice. How unsurprising.

Yeah, and the "Progressive Democrats" might have been a "very symbolic change" - but it wasn't from Margaret Thatcher's policies. And what a successful party that was with policies that have worked wonderfully for Irish society in every area from cheap immigrant labour to a lack of regulation. If this is how much thought and ethical consistency you Fine Gaelers are putting into your policies, Ireland should be worried.

mikemac

Don't know much about AN (will have a read now) but your website is well designed, comprehensive and easy to read

Fair play

Rebelheart

simonj wrote: »

Its better than sitting on the fence complaining

Precisely. Never mind these thanks-seeking begrudging old naysayers engaging in a "popularity contest" on the Politics Forum (Hello, Oscarbravo!). Last week it was the same rubbish from knockers on this Forum when the protest in Dublin was being discussed.

Fair play to you; nár lagaí Dia do lámh. It's always better to light a candle than curse the dark.

UsernameInUse

Thats a shame.

The Libertarians would have been invaluable to Amhain Nua. They are a break from the norm, something different, REAL change.

My hope is that Amhain Nua does not descend over time into the dinosaur, generic ''different faces, same stuff'' parties we have become accustomed to in Ireland. The reason SF is making a lot of noise right now is because they are offering something DIFFERENT! The Irish people want a political revolution right now.

Privatise the landscape! More competition between businesses = more convenience and better service for us, the people. If need be, change the name...The Libertarians! Ireland needs an in your face group!

So join with the Libertarians! What you can achieve together will be stunning! I'll even donate to your cause!

Permabear

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DeVore

Because the experience most people have had with people who are staunchly in favour of the irish language is that their politics tends towards the extreme.

Think back to your irish teacher or that bloke who insists on being addressed by his irish name when you know he's from the west side of dublin.

Its a stereotype, sure, but you asked "why", not for a justification.

Personally, i dont like it either (just sayin'!)

DeV.

Inverse to the power of one!

It's just a name, get too much in to the branding and pr of things and it'll be sucked in to the same realm of the main parties.

The meaning of the name in Irish and English is fair however and if reflective of the parties outlook is more then justified - Potential to be the first dual language name? Just a thought.

I'm just happy to see the attempt to get some momentum going before the election. If AN stay true to their pragmatic non idealogical approach, then their success can only be a positive development in a country whos politics are so bogged down in the past.

Good luck AN!

Rebelheart

DeVore wrote: »

Because the experience most people have had with people who are staunchly in favour of the irish language is that their politics tends towards the extreme.

Think back to your irish teacher or that bloke who insists on being addressed by his irish name when you know he's from the west side of dublin.

This is breathtaking. Just one big stereotype heaving with prejudice. I find it far more odd that Irish people are going around demanding to be addressed with English names. I also find these people are the same sort of people who are most zealously against Irish culture and intent upon redefining Irishness to suit their English-Irishness.

Trying to demonise Irish speakers who have the audacity to use Irish names in Ireland as "extreme" is bigotry. If it were blacks, immigrants or the like I'm absolutely certain that Boards.ie would be handing out bans.

PS: And how very nice of you to deem yourself worthy of representing the experience of "most people" with Irish. Don't judge everybody else by your own evidently lower standards.

dlofnep

Anyone that judges a political party purely on the language used for their party's name, doesn't deserve a vote in the first place. This is Ireland, and if someone chooses an Irish language name for their party - they shouldn't be judged on it.

*shakes fist*

sirromo

Rebelheart wrote: »

Trying to demonise Irish speakers who have the audacity to use Irish names in Ireland as "extreme" is bigotry. If it were blacks, immigrants or the like I'm absolutely certain that Boards.ie would be handing out bans.

You just have to live with the fact that many people in this country view the Irish language as a language of peasants and backward-looking, terrorist-supporting little-Irelanders.

Rebelheart

Inverse to the power of one! wrote: »

I'm just happy to see the attempt to get some momentum going before the election. If AN stay true to their pragmatic non idealogical approach, then their success can only be a positive development in a country whos politics are so bogged down in the past.

Good luck AN!

Likewise. The number of begrudgers here beats the band. Same stuff last week against posters (such as myself) who were going on Saturday's march (and intend to go to every one from now on).

"Marching won't change anything" they chastise us. Well, sitting in your armchair with a defeatist attitude has a hell of a lot less likelihood of changing anything in our country.

We'll get 200,000 people onto Ireland's streets yet and things will change!

humanji

Rebelheart wrote: »

This is breathtaking. Just one big stereotype heaving with prejudice. I find it far more odd that Irish people are going around demanding to be addressed with English names. I also find these people are the same sort of people who are most zealously against Irish culture and intent upon redefining Irishness to suit their English-Irishness.

Trying to demonise Irish speakers who have the audacity to use Irish names in Ireland as "extreme" is bigotry. If it were blacks, immigrants or the like I'm absolutely certain that Boards.ie would be handing out bans.

PS: And how very nice of you to deem yourself worthy of representing the experience of "most people" with Irish. Don't judge everybody else by your own evidently lower standards.

Fanatical Irish speakers are what make non-Irish speakers detest everything about the language. That's the point that you're missing by acting fanatical about speaking Irish.

A party running for government must represent ALL people of Ireland, not just one group. It doesn't matter if they disagree with some of the people, they should still be listening to them and act in their best interest.

Two people simply made a valid point about not liking the name and some possible implications. Personally, I don't like it either. It makes me think of it as a young Fianna Fail party (I honestly thought that was what it was when they first announced themselves). Amhran Nua should take it on board and decide if it's worth considering. Ignoring outright is the type of sh*te that FF have been doing for years, so it'd be nice to have a change.

dlofnep wrote: »

Anyone that judges a political party purely on the language used for their party's name, doesn't deserve a vote in the first place. This is Ireland, and if someone chooses an Irish language name for their party - they shouldn't be judged on it.

*shakes fist*

It's all about appearances. Policies are only part of what a party are. How many people have you heard say they'd like to vote FG but can't stand Enda Kenny?

And new (or in this case, relatively new) party should consider the ramifications of even the little things like name and colours, so that they don't end up alienating any potential voters.

Rebelheart

humanji wrote: »

Fanatical Irish speakers are what make non-Irish speakers detest everything about the language. That's the point that you're missing by acting fanatical about speaking Irish.

*Scapegoat alert*

No, they're not - but how convenient that you'd contend this. Weak people seeking scapegoats for their own inadequacies are the problem here. Anyway, it's usually Grade A losers who waste their energy "detesting" something. How revealing.

There are two types of people: those who are instinctively hostile to things they are ignorant of, and those who are open to things they are ignorant of. By far the more pathetic of these groups is the former.

humanji wrote: »

A party running for government must represent ALL people of Ireland, not just one group.

And having an English name would do this? Jesus wept. :rolleyes:

humanji wrote: »

It makes me think of it as a young Fianna Fail party (I honestly thought that was what it was when they first announced themselves).... Ignoring outright is the type of sh*te that FF have been doing for years, so it'd be nice to have a change.

What trite. So now if anybody ignores "suggestions", no matter how bigoted and stereotype-laden they are, then they are engaged in the politics of Ahern. McCreevy, Harney and the rest of them?

humanji wrote: »

And new (or in this case, relatively new) party should consider the ramifications of even the little things like name and colours, so that they don't end up alienating any potential voters.

Of course, Irish speakers and people who love Irish are not 'potential voters'? In other news, a new party should also appeal to every prejudice going; they should not appeal to immigrants as this may alienate people ... they should not appeal to gays as this may alienate people ....

Permabear

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deise go deo

DeVore wrote: »

Because the experience most people have had with people who are staunchly in favour of the irish language is that their politics tends towards the extreme.

Think back to your irish teacher or that bloke who insists on being addressed by his irish name when you know he's from the west side of dublin.

Its a stereotype, sure, but you asked "why", not for a justification.

Personally, i dont like it either (just sayin'!)

DeV.

Dev thats quite the generalisation, People who support the Irish language come from all walks of life and every political persusation(Even Unionism)
As for the bloke insisting you use his Irish name, He is absoultly right, Every one has the right to be known by their Irish name, I Do not come from the Gaelthacht but I chose to be known by my Irish name, and If someone insisted on using my English name I would concider it quite Igonerent,(Except for people who had know me from before I changed my name, Force of habit for them)

My politics are far from Extreame, (Unless FG are extream these days)

DeVore

I'm only explaining why. I didnt say I agree with it. I speak the language fluently enough and spent 6 (happy) years going to the Gaeltacht.

My explanation, distasteful to you or not, still stands.

DeV.

Sir Oxman

donegalfella wrote: »

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That sounds like a politcal group demanding Senokot for all.

I don't particularly like the name 'Amhran Nua' and there is something in the view that marketing of a party is important - look at FF's symbolism and tagline for instance.
English or Irish language party names do not bother me in the slightest and I most certainly would not be embarrassed by what any foreigner thought of them.

deise go deo

donegalfella wrote: »

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Actually the translation 'Soldiers of Destiny' Hides alot of the meaning FF.
An old Name for Ireland Was Inish Fáil, The Island of destiny, That is where the Destiny reference comes in.

Why would you need to translate these parties names anyway?

Though as a name Amhrán Nua is a bit linked to the present, If the party succeds it wont be a very apt name in 20 years time.

deise go deo

DeVore wrote: »

I'm only explaining why. I didnt say I agree with it. I speak the language fluently enough and spent 6 (happy) years going to the Gaeltacht.

My explanation, distasteful to you or not, still stands.

DeV.

You will need a bit more of an explination than that if your generalisation that Irish speakers are Extream in their Politics is to stand.

Like most generalisations it is both Exagerated and Inaccurate. As I said, Irish speakers occupy all strata of political opinion, both Extream and moderate and all areas in between. I have not sean anything to suggest that they as a group are more 'Extream' than the norm.

dlofnep

humanji wrote: »

It's all about appearances. Policies are only part of what a party are. How many people have you heard say they'd like to vote FG but can't stand Enda Kenny?

It has nothing to do with the fact that Enda's name is Enda Kenny. It is to do with the fact that he doesn't instill confidence in the Irish people. It is hardly comparable to naming an Irish political party with the constitutional first language of the state.

This is Ireland, and I refuse to cater to bigots who prejudge something just because the Irish language is involved.

Welease

How many representatives are you intending to field in the general election?

Your site only lists 3 reps, and is pretty vague on their political credentials..

Rebelheart banned for a week. If you cannot be civil, do not post on this forum.


Your friendly neighbourhood mod,


Papa S.

later12

Forget the name, there are two reasons why i'm convinced that unless they change fundamentally, this so-called political party will never get anywhere.

1. There's an election coming up in the new year. instead of trying to field candidates, establish a name for themselves and otherwise gaina political reputation so that they will at least be noticed outside of boards.ie, this 'party' is instead negotiating in some dodgy looking café or maybe over facebook with one-man political parties and what sound like left wing loons. There's a bloody election about to happen.
2. A quick overview of their official site shows that they haven't the foggiest about where this recession came from, what nama is about, or how we are going to get us out of this mess. They advocate deflating the consumer economy by 20%, for example. Sigh.

The reason we don't have credible new parties is that most people with ability, vision and ambition actually enter the current parties and change them from within.

It probably is the more clever thing to do, in the long run.

DeVore

deise go deo wrote: »

You will need a bit more of an explination than that if your generalisation that Irish speakers are Extream in their Politics is to stand.

Like most generalisations it is both Exagerated and Inaccurate. As I said, Irish speakers occupy all strata of political opinion, both Extream and moderate and all areas in between. I have not sean anything to suggest that they as a group are more 'Extream' than the norm.

I never said they were.

I suggested that the perception that they are is the reason people were suggesting AH changes its name.

As a "perception" I believe it is true that people think that way. Whether the statement actually is true or not is both irrelevant in context and also neither supported nor debunked, by data I know of.


DeV.

Permabear

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later12

donegalfella wrote: »

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Nobody really cares.

It amazes me that one of the most persistent questions to have arisen from our sustained media attention over the past fortnight appeared to be 'what do they think of us?'. The Irish Times asked the question on more than one occasion, just yesterday they created a list of international headlines about Ireland's financial crises, and Vincent Browne, on his political chatshow, dedicated an entire episode to the matter!

Now, if 'they' were the international bond market investors, the IMF, or the EU Commission, I would probably understand. But really, all of this media attention doesn't mean the world has suddenly become interested in Ireland. Their attention to the Irish agreement underscores their interest in the wider eurozone, not on this small island in the north atlantic.

Equally, I can safely say that 99% of people don't give a toss whether we are governed by a party whose name translates as the 'soldiers of destiny', or the 'Party! Party! Party! Party', (which I think is the more accuarate translation of Fianna Fáil)

I think it is a particularly Irish thing to be so watchful of how we are perceived internationally.

Maybe we should just become more relaxed about the fact that most people in America, Australia and Asia, as well as closer to home, read about this little island for 30 seconds at a news stand, drop the paper, and forget about us.

Valmont

later10 wrote: »

I think it is a particularly Irish thing to be so watchful of how we are perceived internationally.

We should care very much considering our proposed recovery involves attracting a lot of foreign investment in the future.

later12

Valmont wrote: »

We should care very much considering our proposed recovery involves attracting a lot of foreign investment in the future.

I'm not talking about investors, as i pointed out. Investors don't care about a party's English translation, or whether it just 'trips of the tongue' like morning dew from mountain grass.

Amtmann

I was quite excited when I first heard about AN over a year ago, but I became very turned off the party when I read its culture policies. I don't see why a political party should have anything whatsoever to do with promoting a 'national culture', such as a language, 'Tailteann Games' or reviving the tradition of the seanchaí. These are bizarre political policies to me, but each to his own I suppose.

Also, I'd question how well researched the party's transport policies are, particularly after reading this:

Those who do choose a car-dependent lifestyle, including one off rural dwelling, are also making a valid Irish lifestyle choice and should get quality transportation support, but not a subsidy from people who make other choices.

and I find it strange that taxi drivers of all professions should be singled out for help:

We are committed to reducing the number of taxi plates on the road to a level whereby a taxi driver can be expected to make a reasonable living without state assistance.

I think you recently removed one transport policy related to greatly expanding the rail network. I was happy to see that one go.

All that said, I think your electoral reform proposals are very good. Those kinds of reformist policies are far more important political priorities than seanachaí and Gaelic Games in my humble opinion.

johnnyskeleton

deise go deo wrote: »

Irish is popular these days. The name being in Irish is anything but a hindrance,
Why don't you go and read AN's Irish policy and see what you think about it, I don't think they are afraid of Irish.

Parties with Englsh names? You mean An Pháirtí an Lucht Oibre? Cant think of any others, You honestly think they are geting support for having an English name?
:D

To be honest, I think "New Song" would be just as unpopular as Amhran Nua

Dirk Gently

http://boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056088794

Is A.N. excluded from this because they actively post here?

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donegalfella wrote: »

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What? I'm a regular reader of the NYT and they never refer to the Irish parties by the English translations of their names. All the recent coverage has referred to Fianna Fail, Fine Gael, and Sinn Fein. Not the 'Soldiers of Destiny' or whatever.

The difficulty (and, arguably, embarrassment for us) comes with explaining where FF and FG fall on the left/right spectrum and the legacy of a civil war eight decades ago. That's what international lookers-on have trouble with. Not the names.

Permabear

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Dannyboy83

dlofnep wrote: »

Anyone that judges a political party purely on the language used for their party's name, doesn't deserve a vote in the first place. This is Ireland, and if someone chooses an Irish language name for their party - they shouldn't be judged on it.

That may well be an ideal to aspire to, but it's not reality.
People judge women on their looks, men by their watches, political parties by their name.

As DeVore said, that doesn't necessarily make it right, but that's just the way it is. C'est Ca!

Inverse to the power of one! wrote: »

It's just a name, get too much in to the branding and pr of things and it'll be sucked in to the same realm of the main parties.

I disagree.
Naming/Branding/PR/Propaganda can make all the difference.
History proves that over and over and over.

dual language name?

I hadn't thought of that, good idea.
I don't know how many [relevant] cognates there are tho.

I'm just happy to see the attempt to get some momentum going before the election. If AN stay true to their pragmatic non idealogical approach, then their success can only be a positive development in a country whos politics are so bogged down in the past.

For sure, it's good to see new blood.

deise go deo wrote: »

Irish is popular these days. The name being in Irish is anything but a hindrance,
Why don't you go and read AN's Irish policy and see what you think about it, I don't think they are afraid of Irish.

I'm aware who AN are, I first read their policies about 2 years ago, I think I joined up mainly just to give support for a new party trying to make a difference.
I quite like AN/Ronan and find he makes a valuable contribution to this forum.
I am not against them.

I'm not against the Irish language either and I think it's unfair to imply that I am.
I am simply a pragmatist. I am against waste and I am against forcing identities onto Irish people which they want no part of.
And I'm not claiming it only happens in Ireland either, have a look at the Polish/Lithuanian spelling row for example.

Parties with Englsh names? You mean An Pháirtí an Lucht Oibre? Cant think of any others, You honestly think they are geting support for having an English name?
:D

No, I don't think they are going to get support for simply having an Irish name.
But what I do think is that people are less likely to ignore them if they had a more meaningful English language name - i.e. the vernacular.

Rebelheart wrote: »

Petty is an understatement. Jaundiced and backward is getting nearer the truth. But yet another reason to not vote for your Fine Gael party.

Fine Gael are not my party and I'm am not a loyal follower of Fine Gael or any party for that matter (I also happen to quite like many of the Green policies)

But I believe that at this moment in time, Fine Gael are quite clearly the best antetode to the problems plaguing Ireland. We've swung far, far too left and we need a pragmatic group to bring us back toward centre, or even centre-right for a while.
I've no guarantee that Fine Gael are the perfect antetode, but relevant to the other political parties on offer, it's probable that they are the closest, ideologically, to what this countries clearly needs at this time.
i.e. the right party at the right time

As I've said before, in an ideal world, I would be a socialist.
But this is not an ideal world and our political system have proven incapable of regulating a socialist society - in fact, it is drowning us in debt - so much so that over 60% of our bailout money will be spent on "budgetary needs" and this is history repeating itself.
So I because I believe equalité is impossible in the Ireland of today, I tend to swing a bit more right, a bit more Libertarian because I see that as the safest option until we our political system has evolved sufficiently.

Lastly, as regards the name Fine Gael - it's ingrained in the Irish mentality, as is Fianna Fail. As is Eamon De Valera or Michael Collins.

If Fine Gael were a new party - starting out - who nobody had ever heard of - in Ireland 2010 - I would think they'd be making a bad move going with that name. It's not catchy, it doesn't really mean anything to anyone and I would be inclined to write them off before I had ever given them a chance.

The name being in Irish is one of the most refreshing things about Amhrán Nua.

I would suggest that is a paradox but you are entitled to your opinion.

Rebelheart wrote: »

Hilarious! By your logic we should have another "very significant symbolic change" and prevent English-speaking monoglots like Ahern, McCreevy and the rest of them from being in power, not to mention those English-speaking civil servants who, using English, got us into this mess. Getting rid of anybody with an English name, in other words, would be a "very significant symbolic change".

I'm really quite unsure how you managed to extract that course of action from "my logic", but that method of thinking is quite scary to be honest.

You've taken a rather large leap from product-positioning to segregation.

Or maybe you've just changed the rules again to support your anti-Irish language prejudice. How unsurprising.

Again, how am I anti-Irish language?
If you want to go speak Irish, I'm more than happy for you to do that.
By all means.

I'm not anti-any language, nor am I in a position to be, I'm also a polyglot.

It's fair to say I don't want anyone forcing the Irish language onto me. I don't.
I don't want to be associated with or identified by the language.
I want my children to have the option not to learn it and not have it forced onto them either.
That doesn't mean I am against the language or want others to be prevented from enjoying it, if that is what they desire.

Hiberno-Irish is my native tongue and I'm very proud of that fact, but I also
happen to enjoy learning and speaking slavic languages.

I do that in my own time, as a hobby, at no expense to anyone else and I don't subject others to it against their will.

Rebelheart wrote: »

This is breathtaking. Just one big stereotype heaving with prejudice. I find it far more odd that Irish people are going around demanding to be addressed with English names.

This is just irrational.
Do you find it odd that Canton Chinese speakers wish to be addressed by their canton names, rather than the Mandarin name?

I also find these people are the same sort of people who are most zealously against Irish culture and intent upon redefining Irishness to suit their English-Irishness.

Which is frequently the problem with militant Irish speakers.
You find these people are redefining your perception of Irishness.

Trying to demonise Irish speakers who have the audacity to use Irish names in Ireland as "extreme" is bigotry. If it were blacks, immigrants or the like I'm absolutely certain that Boards.ie would be handing out bans.

That's not what DeVore implied - read his post again.

Rebelheart wrote: »

Likewise. The number of begrudgers here beats the band. Same stuff last week against posters (such as myself) who were going on Saturday's march (and intend to go to every one from now on).

You need to look up the definition of the word 'begrudger'.

Holding a different opinion doesn't render one a begrudger.

"Marching won't change anything" they chastise us. Well, sitting in your armchair with a defeatist attitude has a hell of a lot less likelihood of changing anything in our country.

Nor would supporting the anti-(state sector reform) groups or union bosses, if you believe they are the crux of the problem.

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donegalfella wrote: »

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I think you must be thinking of a different paper. I can't find any reference to the English translations in the NYT. They only seem to use 'Fianna Fail', etc.

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deise go deo

donegalfella wrote: »

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Think about the time the name was chosen and it makes perfect sense.
As dose Amhrán Nua, Today, however in 20 years time it will probably be more of a draw back with the jibes of Amhrán Fiche bliain d'aois(20 year old song) etc

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Well, hardly 'repeatedly' - they've run hundreds of articles about Fianna Fail since 1992 and mentioned the English translation of the name only a handful of times. And not in their recent coverage (though perhaps their domestic edition is different to the online one).

Are you sure it wasn't a different paper? I thought you might have been thinking of the Guardian article all right. That was a potted guide to the Irish political landscape though - translations into English are not usual in standard news coverage.

zig

donegalfella wrote: »

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Ah cmon, theres a big difference between them actually saying the Irish name and then translating it , and them just saying the translation as if its what we call them. The readers will know that we just call them Fianna Fail.

Although I do find it funny that the readers arent going to know how we pronounce Fail, so they'll just it the normal word 'fail'

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zig wrote: »

Ah cmon, theres a big difference between them actually saying the Irish name and then translating it , and them just saying the translation as if its what we call them. The readers will know that we just call them Fianna Fail

Yes, this is what I'm trying to get at. I am unaware of any major international newpapers who use formulations like "Mr Cowen's governing Soldiers of Destiny party would probably be succeeded by a coalition led by the Tribe of the Gael, especially now that We Ourselves had won the by-election in Donegal." The NYT certainly doesn't.

deise go deo

Dannyboy83 wrote: »

I'm aware who AN are, I first read their policies about 2 years ago, I think I joined up mainly just to give support for a new party trying to make a difference.
I quite like AN/Ronan and find he makes a valuable contribution to this forum.
I am not against them.

I'm not against the Irish language either and I think it's unfair to imply that I am.
I am simply a pragmatist. I am against waste and I am against forcing identities onto Irish people which they want no part of.
And I'm not claiming it only happens in Ireland either, have a look at the Polish/Lithuanian spelling row for example.

OK fair enough but you must realize that even if you don't conceder your self to be against Irish per se that many of your opinions on how to deal with it would do immense damage to it, that is why I argue with you over it.

AN have quite a strong Irish language policy and I would be delighted if some of it was implemented.

No, I don't think they are going to get support for simply having an Irish name.
But what I do think is that people are less likely to ignore them if they had a more meaningful English language name - i.e. the vernacular.

I doubt it, There is no reason to Ignore a party just because of the language of its name, I doubt if the party was actually called 'New Song' it would do anything for its Image, good or bad.

Permabear

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mikom

Latest development.
Howard Jones's lawyers have asked me to contact you.........

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FagjnIgUk6Q