Bellmullet community TV

Does anyone else use this service??

I have lost TV3, bbc1 , bbc2 and UTV. On tv3 a message appears stating that the annual subscription of 75 euro is now due and must be sent immediately due to lightening damage to a transmitter

After searching the net ive have have found similar messages in the local notes of the mayo news and western people archives for previous years. This is also a volutary payment.

So some people pay and some dont..how does this work?? and also if i pay tomorrow my tv3 and other channels wont come back on straight away.

Whats the point in paying when you could get a damn good digital package with lots of channels for that price

watty

It has to close soon too.

Currently for "free"
6 TV + 10 Radio on DTT
200+ free TV 70ish free Radio (maybe 20 to 30 usable TV and 15 decent radio ) on Freesat or Freesat HD (preferable even if no HDTV today).

watty

watty wrote: »

It has to close soon too.

Currently for "free"
6 TV + 10 Radio on DTT
200+ free TV 70ish free Radio (maybe 20 to 30 usable TV and 15 decent radio ) on Freesat or Freesat HD (preferable even if no HDTV today).

Do ye think this is abit of an unfair last ditch attempt to make money??

The Cush

Deleted User wrote: »

Do ye think this is abit of an unfair last ditch attempt to make money??

Deflectors are licenced until the end of 2012. Until then electricity has to be paid for and equipment has to be maintained, repaired or replaced.

If you aren't willing to pay for the limited service the UK channels are available for free with a satellite receiver and dish. TV3 on the other hand is only available from a limited number of analogue transmitters and maybe 24+ digital transmitters but you may not be covered by any of these so your only option for this may be Sky or UPC MMDS.

Sponge Bob

They are licenced until Digital Switch on not analogue switch off Cush ......surely. 2010 or 2011 .

There is no MMDS in the Mullet.

Get a satellite dish, all these deflected channels are free save the Irish ones.

Then plug in this box and you can have the sat channels in high def or normal def. Thats BBC and ITV sorted.

When RTE enable either Achill or Belmullet in 2011 you will get TV3 + 3e and RTE HD ....using the same box. If you can receive the Castlebar transmitter you can have them now.

This is only an attempt to get a last few quid out of you , that is all. If the mast was damaged how can they transmit the begging pictures did you ask yourself ???

The Cush

Sponge Bob wrote: »

They are licenced until Digital Switch on not analogue switch off Cush ......surely. 2010 or 2011 .

S.I. 445 of 2009 Wireless Telegraphy (UHF Television Programme Retransmission) Regulations, 2009

Sponge Bob

Not quite Cush, the licences went on a rolling one year basis in 2009 with the proviso that the last rolling one year licence will start latest 31 dec 2011.

If digital comes to your area that year then the licence will not be rolled over. You must shut down. You may have to shut down earlier if there is an interference problem and RTENL complain.

The Cush

Sponge Bob wrote: »

Not quite Cush, the licences went on a rolling one year basis in 2009 with the proviso that the last rolling one year licence will start latest 31 dec 2011.

Yes, ending 2012.

Sponge Bob wrote: »

If digital comes to your area that year then the licence will not be rolled over. You must shut down.

What is the specific reference to shutting down deflectors as digital rolls out other than interference or reserved spectrum?.

Sponge Bob

The licences were sort of open ended 2003-2009 and then went to one year terms. Section 6

Duration and Renewal of Licences
6. (1) A Licence that has been granted or renewed shall (unless it has been
or is revoked) remain in force for the period of one year from the date on
which it is expressed to come into operation and, unless renewed, shall then
expire completely.
(2) A Licence shall not be renewed by the Commission on the third anniversary
after the first grant of the licence but shall then expire completely.
(3) On application by or on behalf of a Licensee to the Commission before
the expiration of his or her Licence, the Commission may, renew the Licence
for a specified period from the day following the date of expiration of the previous
period during which the Licence was in force. The granting or renewal of
a Licence shall not be construed as warranting that the Licence shall be renewed
at any time in the future, and no Licence shall be renewed beyond the third
anniversary of the date upon which it was first granted.
(4) No Licence granted pursuant to these Regulations shall remain valid after
31 December 2012.

( the ones left at the very end will be in Saorsat areas not Saorview areas, the Mullet will get a DTT transmitter, dunno if it goes into Dooncarton or Achill )

The Cush

Sponge Bob wrote: »

The licences were sort of open ended 2003-2009 and then went to one year terms. Section 6

Duration and Renewal of Licences
6. (1) A Licence that has been granted or renewed shall (unless it has been
or is revoked) remain in force for the period of one year from the date on
which it is expressed to come into operation and, unless renewed, shall then
expire completely.
(2) A Licence shall not be renewed by the Commission on the third anniversary
after the first grant of the licence but shall then expire completely.
(3) On application by or on behalf of a Licensee to the Commission before
the expiration of his or her Licence, the Commission may, renew the Licence
for a specified period from the day following the date of expiration of the previous
period during which the Licence was in force. The granting or renewal of
a Licence shall not be construed as warranting that the Licence shall be renewed
at any time in the future, and no Licence shall be renewed beyond the third
anniversary of the date upon which it was first granted.
(4) No Licence granted pursuant to these Regulations shall remain valid after
31 December 2012.

Nothing specific in that quote that requires deflectors to shut down as DTT rolls out.

The 2003 & 2006 licences were 1 year with annual renewal as with the 2009 licences.

The Cush

This from the Connaught Telegraph

Mayo Community TV stays on air

Wednesday, 01 December 2010 14:34
Written by Aiden Henry

The directors of Mayo Community TV (MCTV) have scotched rumours they are pulling the plug on the service now that the new free state digital service, Saorview, is to become available over the next two years.Mr. Padraig Cunnane a director MCTV said the company was committed to continue to provide the service.

He said: "The directors are committed to providing this service, which has been available in the west for over 30 years, provided the public continue to support the service. "The annual contribution of €70 will not be increased and will continue to be collected retrospectively. The collection for last year is now underway and the 2010 collection will not commence until the end of January. It is important people maintain their support if the service is to continue," said Padraig.

"There is no truth in the suggestion that MCTV is finished, now that the new free, state digital service, Saorview, is to become available over the next two years.

"Saorview will provide access to 12 television channels and digital radio channels but will not include the British channels.

"The channels to be provided are turned on as a trial digital service are RTÉ One, Network Two, TV3, TG4 and RTÉ News.

"No provision is being made for retransmission of the British television channels. For people who wish to receive the British channels the choice will be to continue with the service provided by MCTV or pay the much greater cost of the satellite or pay to view digital services. We are licensed to provide BBC1, BBC2, UTV, Channel 4 until December 31, 2012.

"We will continue for as long as the people, by their support, keep the service financially viable. The directors have to keep the finances under continual review to ensure that the company can meet all its outgoings, especially the very high electricity charges for the eight transmitters.

"People who wish to make their contributions direct can continue to send them to me, Padraig Cunnane, Balla or to Joe Gibbons, Westport, as many have done in the past," Padraig said.

http://www.con-telegraph.ie/news/latest-news/1794-mayo-community-tv-remains-on-air

Sponge Bob

They forgot to mention that Freesat also supplies BBC3/4/News ITV 2/3/4 More4/E4/Film4 and a scatter of +1 variants thereof so on the channel per buck measure it is not more expensive to get a dish and stb box....and that before one factors in picture quality.

Someone in Mayo really should email RTENL and get the live dates ( if any) for DTT transmitters in Dooncarton Achill and Westport.

watty

Freesat / FTA has about 40 useful TV and 20 useful radio out of the 200+ TV and 70ish Radio that are Free To Air.

Also 4 HD channels, soon 6 on satellite

MUCH, MUCH better picture quality

Real Widescreen

Folks would be better upgrading to "Freesat HD" + Saorview (or Saorsat next May) than feeding the Dinosaur.

Mayo Exile

From that Connaught Telegraph piece:

The collection for last year is now underway and the 2010 collection will not commence until the end of January.

Hmm. If the end date for MCTV is, say, 31 December 2012, is it in their interest to stay on air until then if they continue their current method of collecting money for the service? If it's off the air in January 2013, I can't see many stumping up cash for the previous year's viewing when people maybe looking at a blank screen by then...........

Mike 1972

Sponge Bob wrote: »

You may have to shut down earlier if there is an interference problem and RTENL complain.

Im suprised there hasnt been any issues (reportedly) with BBC2 from the Castlebar deflector being co channel (53 Horizontal) with DTT from Truskmore

I remember when UTV had to move off Ch 50 because of TG4 from Cairnhill.

Mayo Exile wrote: »

If the end date for MCTV is, say, 31 December 2012, is it in their interest to stay on air until then if they continue their current method of collecting money for the service? If it's off the air in January 2013, I can't see many stumping up cash for the previous year's viewing when people maybe looking at a blank screen by then...........

Its an odd one alright. Did they always use this model ? Where did they get the funds to set up the service originally what about people who move into/out of an area during the year ? Only argument I can can see for it is that if the service has to close prematurely they dont have to go around giving refunds to everyone.

And whats all this stuff about high electricity costs ? With the exception of the old SCTV Comeragh site (reportedly 800w per channel :eek:) I thought they were mostly pretty low powered affairs. Surely maintaining/replacing equipment and repairing storm damage would be their main costs (along with levies/fees/VAT etc)

Mayo Exile

Mike 1972 wrote: »

Its an odd one alright. Did they always use this model ? Where did they get the funds to set up the service originally what about people who move into/out of an area during the year ? Only argument I can can see for it is that if the service has to close prematurely they dont have to go around giving refunds to everyone.

We just had someone call around every year to collect. Was around €40 years ago. Haven't been living down there for a while now so I don't know when the last time people called to the folks house in Murrisk looking for money.

Quality and quantity wise, what watty suggests, the Saorview/Freesat route, is the best way to go. However in reality many people mightn't/dont want anything but the deflector method of getting the UK channels. I got a dish with a Twin LNB put up at the folks house, plus Saorview can be received from the Castlebar relay since August. However everytime I go home they are watching BBC etc via the deflector and the FTA satellite box is plugged out!:eek:.

People seem resistant to change even if it means an improvement of service!

However after 2012, people WILL (or will they) be forced to look alternatives as the deflector licenses officially end. But with us deep in recession now and for a few years to come, will politicians once again turn a blind eye to the operation of deflector systems, as they dont want to be further annoying an already angry electorate? FF politicians especially so!

Mayo Exile

Also in the Western People, 8 December:

Free TV has no BBC
By Cróna Esler

THE Western People has learned that the new free State digital service will not provide popular British channels like BBC1, BBC2, UTV and Channel 4.

Saorview will become available over the next two years and, while it will provide access to 12 television and digital radio stations, the British channels are not on the list.

The omission of these channels has prompted the existing community television provider – Mayo Community Television Ltd – to stress that it can only survive if it receives the support of homeowners across the county. The voluntary company has permission to broadcast the British channels.

Saorview, on the other hand, is currently running on a trial basis, providing RTÉ One, RTÉ Two, TV3, TG4 and RTÉ News Now. A number of radio services are also available.

According to the company’s website, more channels, services and enhancements will follow as part of the full launch of the Saorview service in spring 2011.

However, when contacted by the Western People, a spokesperson confirmed that there are currently no plans to carry the UK services on the Saorview platform.

Meanwhile, a spokesperson for Mayo Community Television Ltd has told this newspaper that many householders have wrong information and are choosing not to sign up with the company this year.

“The directors of Mayo Community Television Ltd are committed to providing this service, which has been available in the West for over 30 years, provided the public continued to support the service,” said the spokesperson.

“The annual contribution for the service of €75 will not be increased and will continue to be collected retrospectively. The collection for the year 2009 is now underway and it is important that people maintain their support, if the service is to continue. There is no truth in the suggestion that the company is finished,” he stressed.

The spokesperson pointed out that no provision is being made for retransmission of the British television channels by Saorview. “Therefore, people who wish to receive the British channels must continue with the service provided by the company or pay the much greater cost of the satellite or pay-per-view digital services.”

The spokesperson said Mayo Community TV will continue for as long as it is financially viable.

“The directors have to keep the finances under continual review to ensure that the company can meet all its outgoings, especially the very high electricity charges for its eight transmitters.”

People who wish to make their contributions directly can continue to send them to Padraig Cunnane, Balla, or Joe Gibbons, Westport

Link: http://www.westernpeople.ie/news/story/?trs=eyqlidsnau

Regarding this bit:

or pay the much greater cost of the satellite or pay-per-view digital services

Pay per view services, yes, an ongoing cost. But "much greater cost of the satellite" is a bit misleading especially if its only FTA stations you want. An initial cost for purchase and installation and thats it.

watty

I presume all the UK channels on the "deflector" are FTA on Satellite.
Once off cost.

Mayo Exile

Originally posted by Watty: I presume all the UK channels on the "deflector" are FTA on Satellite.
Once off cost.

Yes. In the Westport area they would be BBC 1/2, UTV and CH4. Use Sky boxes as source. Broadcast in 4:3. No teletext.

breathn

I know by asking 3 questions in 1 post it's likely that nobody will answer any of them but would love to know if someone could shed light on any of them:


Is it allowed for a deflector to use a source that's not from a FTA terrestrial signal? (I.e. using any sort of satellite stream like sky or freesat)

Is it allowed by Sky rules that their digibox or viewing-card protected channels like RTE are used for the rebroadcasting like is happening here?

Is it allowed that the spectrum [allocated for the deflector to carry the channels] is used to ever transmit anything OTHER than what they're supposed to? (e.g. displaying the Sky Guide for a week because of some fault, or a sky "Insert your viewing card" screen for a weekend, or "Sky welcome channel 999" for a fortnight instead of Channel4)

The Cush

breathn wrote: »

I know by asking 3 questions in 1 post it's likely that nobody will answer any of them but would love to know if someone could shed light on any of them:


Is it allowed for a deflector to use a source that's not from a FTA terrestrial signal? (I.e. using any sort of satellite stream like sky or freesat)

Is it allowed by Sky rules that their digibox or viewing-card protected channels like RTE are used for the rebroadcasting like is happening here?

Is it allowed that the spectrum [allocated for the deflector to carry the channels] is used to ever transmit anything OTHER than what they're supposed to? (e.g. displaying the Sky Guide for a week because of some fault, or a sky "Insert your viewing card" screen for a weekend, or "Sky welcome channel 999" for a fortnight instead of Channel4)

Don't know the specific answers to your questions but this is a link to the current deflector regulations, you may find an answer there - http://www.comreg.ie/_fileupload/publications/SI445of2009.pdf.

If you have a problem with a local deflector operation why not install your own satellite dish and get the deflector channels plus many more for free.

breathn

The Cush wrote: »

Don't know the specific answers to your questions but this is a link to the current deflector regulations, you may find an answer there - http://www.comreg.ie/_fileupload/publications/SI445of2009.pdf.

If you have a problem with a local deflector operation why not install your own satellite dish and get the deflector channels plus many more for free.

Thanks for the link!!!!! I'll have a good read of that.

We already have freesat which we got because this crowd were broadcasting sky guide for 3 weeks instead of channel 4. And we had no UTV for over a month with "insert viewing card".

Will get a DTT stick from the bargain alerts soon to see if I can pick up saorview.


I really want to see if what they are doing is legal though, those questions are my gut feeling on some things that don't feel right.

Antenna

breathn wrote: »

this crowd were broadcasting sky guide for 3 weeks instead of channel 4. And we had no UTV for over a month with "insert viewing card".

Did you not try contacting the operators when this happened, to bring it to their attention?

The same thing you described (Sky menus appearing due to a fault) has also happened on RTE relays that were either temporarily or ongoing, using satellite as signal source, though it was quickly fixed (within hours) in case I heard of.

Mayo Exile wrote: »

.. No teletext.

C4 should have teletext (it has a 'VBI' teletext service on satellite, though just seems to be horseracing etc) , whilst the other 3 should have P888 subtitles? do they?

watty

Bargain alerts is Not best place for a DTT stick.

Either high street shop or eBay. But do some research.

Dual Tuner DTT stick recommended. as there will be more than one Multiplex soon.

Make sure it has a normal aerial socket. Like this has http://www.techtir.ie/reviews/mobidtv-dual-usb-dtt

Most have a miniature connector.

If Apple OS X or Linux read
http://www.techtir.ie/node/1003625
http://www.mpeg4ireland.com/saorview-dtt-on-a-pc

watty

breathn wrote: »

I know by asking 3 questions in 1 post it's likely that nobody will answer any of them but would love to know if someone could shed light on any of them:


(1) Is it allowed for a deflector to use a source that's not from a FTA terrestrial signal? (I.e. using any sort of satellite stream like sky or freesat)

(2) Is it allowed by Sky rules that their digibox or viewing-card protected channels like RTE are used for the rebroadcasting like is happening here?

(3) Is it allowed that the spectrum [allocated for the deflector to carry the channels] is used to ever transmit anything OTHER than what they're supposed to? (e.g. displaying the Sky Guide for a week because of some fault, or a sky "Insert your viewing card" screen for a weekend, or "Sky welcome channel 999" for a fortnight instead of Channel4)

(1) Yes. As long as they have the agreement of the channel. They are legally obliged to pay a royalty. Most FTA channels are NOT FTC (Free To Carry). Even with FTC channels (DW TV, BBC World News TV) you need permission in writing. BBC1, 2, 3, 4, ITV, C4 etc are NOT FTC.

(2) Only if you pay a special commercial (expensive) rate. It's against T&C on a domestic account. It's Theft of Service if you use Domestic Sub for Re-broadcast, Hotel, Guest House or Pub.

(3) No. You may only carry the designated content/Channels. RLO TV lost Deflector licence for doing "opt outs" from C5 (Five).

breathn

Antenna wrote: »

Did you not try contacting the operators when this happened, to bring it to their attention?

They told me to my face at the front door that "Sky were always up to tricks like this by canceling their cards as a way of driving up their own sales "

They had to wait for new cards.

I possibly should have stated in my first post: The reason I'm trying to understand their business is because I do not trust a single thing they tell me.

breathn

watty wrote: »

(1) Yes. As long as they have the agreement of the channel. They are legally obliged to pay a royalty. Most FTA channels are NOT FTC (Free To Carry). Even with FTC channels (DW TV, BBC World News TV) you need permission in writing. BBC1, 2, 3, 4, ITV, C4 etc are NOT FTC.

(2) Only if you pay a special commercial (expensive) rate. It's against T&C on a domestic account. It's Theft of Service if you use Domestic Sub for Re-broadcast, Hotel, Guest House or Pub.

(3) No. You may only carry the designated content/Channels. RLO TV lost Deflector licence for doing "opt outs" from C5 (Five).

Big big big thanks for that information!

3 is really interesting to me, because for weeks we had the welcome to sky 999 (or 888 or something) channel broadcasting something on a loop. It was telling me about movie channels and other stuff non stop. I figured comreg allocated their spectrum for some content and by not showing it it was dodgy.

Sky Guide was just there playing music at me for a few weeks. UTV had been missing for weeks too with insert viewing card.

Literally months of sky material had been broadcast on several frequencies designated for the licensed content. This has been over the last 18 months.


Also, I'm not in The Mullet but I think it's "Mayo community television" that we pay

Antenna

breathn wrote: »

viewing-card protected channels like RTE are used for the rebroadcasting like is happening here?

The only people that I know of doing this anytime recently were RTE themselves, with SKy having been used as a source at UHF relays.

breathn wrote: »

Big big big thanks for that information!

3 is really interesting to me, because for weeks we had the welcome to sky 999 (or 888 or something) channel broadcasting something on a loop. It was telling me about movie channels and other stuff non stop. I figured comreg allocated their spectrum for some content and by not showing it it was dodgy.

Sky Guide was just there playing music at me for a few weeks. UTV had been missing for weeks too with insert viewing card.

Literally months of sky material had been broadcast on several frequencies designated for the licensed content. This has been over the last 18 months.


Also, I'm not in The Mullet but I think it's "Mayo community television" that we pay

There is no one forcing you to pay them anything, (if you really did) if you feel this bad about them, or otherwise!

The deflector licenses don't specify what specific channels are relayed? They don't have to be of the traditional 4 UK ones, could be from anywhere in the EU if there is agreement.


BBc1,2,itv,c4 are all FTA for ages, so a skybox is not required to receive them anymore.
What is described above must have happened years ago?
A FTA box uses less electricity than a skybox, and many/most can be set to start up on a particular channel after a powercut.


What deflector are you receiving from if its not 'Belmullet' or where is your aerial aimed at?

breathn

Antenna wrote: »

The only people that I know of doing this anytime recently were RTE themselves, with SKy having been used as a source at UHF relays.



There is no one forcing you to pay them anything, (if you really did) if you feel this bad about them, or otherwise!

The deflector licenses don't specify what specific channels are relayed?

BBc1,2,itv,c4 are all FTA, so a skybox is not required to receive them anymore.
What is described above must have happened years ago?
A FTA box uses less electricity than a skybox, and many/most can be set to start up on a particular channel after a powercut.

Hey Antenna,
Interesting tone you're using there.

Yes, yes I REALLY did pay them. I'm not sure what was in my previous posts to lead you to find my post suspicious.

I don't know if the deflector licenses specify what specific channels are relayed. I would have thought comreg regulate that. Can anyone provide any insight into this? Watty?

I also did not know RTE were using SKY as UHF relays. I don't know where in the UHF/VHF world their frequencies lie. In fact this really does surprise me. It could be possible MCTV were using the RTE-via-sky upstream. But there was a watermark in some (all?) of the channels that I should post in a chque or something. But they told me to my face it was Sky canceling their cards. Again you don't have to believe I was told that. I also don't have to believe what you say about RTE broadcasting using Sky equipment.


What happened above did not happen years ago. UTV was telling me to insert a Sky viewing card just a few months ago too.

Antenna

breathn , do you know the loaction of the deflector transmitter you are receiveing from, or if not, where is your aerial for it aimed?

breathn wrote: »

I also don't have to believe what you say about RTE broadcasting using Sky equipment.

This has been the case at dozens of RTE relay transmitters in the South/South West and Northwest of the country where sky were used to fed the transmitters. this was to maintain reception to as many people as possible during low power and outages at major 'parent' transmitters due to replacement mast works. Some RTE/Tg4transmitters have this permanently.

It is not just me saying it, there has been many other posts here from others on this board about this as well

breathn wrote: »

.

I don't know if the deflector licenses specify what specific channels are relayed.

There are no 'must carry' stations on deflectors. They could have had TVE1 instead of BBC1 if there was agreement or any other EU TV stations.
On cable and digital MMD- there are must carry stations which are RTE1,2,TG4,TV3. The 4 traditional UK ones aren't included. Analogue MMDs had just one 'must-carry' station - TV3

I fully agree the demand for 'deflectors' nowadays is not what it once was - but it has to be said that elderly people and the poor would be still big users of these services.

watty

Deflectors can carry any channel
With prior agreement of Comreg & The Channel. Possibly if Community DTT in the future, BAI. But BAI didn't exist.

Anyone can use Sky boxes and RTE, UPC (chorus and NTL in past) and other deflector operators have. But NOT using viewing card without special commercial payment & agreement with Sky.

Likely the ITV / BBC sky boxes put in proir to FTA and never replaced.

Elderly and poor people can manage DTT/Satellite fine. I know plenty people in 80s with Freesat or Sky.

There is going to be DTT box subsidies.

Mayo Exile

Antenna wrote: »

C4 should have teletext (it has a 'VBI' teletext service on satellite, though just seems to be horseracing etc) , whilst the other 3 should have P888 subtitles? do they?

Cant be sure, I'll have to check when i go home again at xmas, but to the best of my knowledge, no. All you get I think is a blank page with "p.100" in the top left corner.

Sponge Bob

Well Both Dooncarton and Achill will get DTT in 2011, no idea when though. Castlebar already has it.

UTV BBC1 BBC2 Channel4 Itv London , More4 Film4 E4 ITV2 and the old persons favourite, ITV3,BBC News Sky news etc etc are all free on satellite and the country is rotten with second hand sky boxes like this one generally around €50 with remote and NO CARD REQUIRED not like a few years back.

I fail to see why anyone bothers with a deflector any more, honest.

Mike 1972

Sponge Bob wrote: »

the old persons favourite, ITV3.

Im not THAT old :mad:

watty wrote: »

Elderly and poor people can manage DTT/Satellite fine. I know plenty people in 80s with Freesat or Sky.

But many elderly/poor people have already invested in the necessary aerials etc for the deflector service. realistically a Freesat system installation is going into hundreds of euros (and add to remote/box/cable clutter) for what many people content with the current range of channels on offer represents no real addition.

For new setups freesat obviously makes far more sense than deflector but there are tens (possibly hundreds) of thousands of "legacy" installations out there. Eventually these setups will have to be replaced but there is no immediate reason for doing so

Incidently it would be nice to have the odd thread where someone can raise issues with their reception of a particular deflector system on the terrestrial board without it degenerating into an off topic and done to death bunfight vigorous debate about the merits or otherwise of the continued operation of deflectors. I mean if someone were to make a query about their TG4 reception only to be met with a trolling match regarding the merits or otherwise of the existance of the channel in question and the manner in which it is funded there would (quite rightly) be warnings/infractions being dished out to the offending parties or at the very least theyd be told to take their off topic rants to the "Broadcasting" subforum.

watty

Eventually = about 18 months, realistically.

There ought to be grants and subsidies. The driving factor I beleive is deadline to auction off TV spectrum in mid 2012. Not really Digital TV. DTT is only a means to an end for the Government to get some money.

The people buying spectrum will want assurances that there will be no Squatters on it in Jan 2013.


SCTV was one of the biggest and is more or less gone. Really the writing has been on the wall since 2001 (1st DTT attempt) and when the 2006 .. 2008 so called trial happened and finally C4 and Five joined BBC & ITV FTA on satellite that was the final wake up call.

The only sensible expenditure of money is NOT €70 p.a. propping up a deflector but a community whip around (and Government subsidies) to get poorer people Saorvision and Freesat.

People then get ALL the channels of the Deflector plus more, in better quality and reliablity, so while you somewhat of a point, the analogy is flawed. It's a once off cost for all the existing plus more, better instead of ongoing cost for inferior service.

Mike 1972

watty wrote: »

Eventually = about 18 months, realistically.

Which makes the whole debate about the rights and wrongs of deflectors pretty moot at this stage although I stongly suspect the bunfight will be continue regardless and will still be taking place 18 months years from now........

icdg

Western People wrote:

Meanwhile, a spokesperson for Mayo Community Television Ltd has told this newspaper that many householders have wrong information and are choosing not to sign up with the company this year.

“The directors of Mayo Community Television Ltd are committed to providing this service, which has been available in the West for over 30 years, provided the public continued to support the service,” said the spokesperson.

“The annual contribution for the service of €75 will not be increased and will continue to be collected retrospectively. The collection for the year 2009 is now underway and it is important that people maintain their support, if the service is to continue. There is no truth in the suggestion that the company is finished,” he stressed.

The spokesperson pointed out that no provision is being made for retransmission of the British television channels by Saorview. “Therefore, people who wish to receive the British channels must continue with the service provided by the company or pay the much greater cost of the satellite or pay-per-view digital services.”

Looks like we are perhaps seeing the start of the campaign by the deflectors to have their temporary licences, who were supposed to end with the start of DTT, extended further (and perhaps become permanent). With the lack of UK channels on Saorview they now have a case to make for this and with the political climate at the present it may be that they will be able to make it.

When the deflectors were temporarily authorised, it was understood that DTT would make them obsolete. Now it looks like that will certainly not be the case and asking people in this climate to pay €200 or more to have Freesat installed is not going to go down well in areas of the country where they have popular support.

And make no mistake, these are the same people who
- Had no conimption about disobeying the law in the past, and had local support in the flagrant breaches of the Wireless Telegraphy Acts.
- Managed to get a TD elected in Donegal on the sole issue of support for their cause. I imagine there is no other place in the world where an MP has been elected solely on the basis of citizens apparently god-given right to receive another country's television for free.

The government (and Comreg) may have to make the choice of either extending the licences, terminating them and looking a blind eye to the situation (essentially the "nod and a wink" basis deflectors operated on before 1997) or going down the "right" direction of terminating the licences and enforcing the termination (by sending the heavies, and if necessary, the Guards, to physically confiscat equipment), which may polticially go down like a lead baloon.

watty

Of course they are obsolete. They have been obsolete for years with FTA satellite.

No government will tolerate them now with the carrot of selling off TV spectrum. It would be cheaper for the Government to "buy off" any opposition with some dish install subsidies.

This time will be different to before. Originally there was no alternative nor desire to sell of spectrum. The deflectors are doomed.

Sam Russell

watty wrote: »

Of course they are obsolete. They have been obsolete for years with FTA satellite.

No government will tolerate them now with the carrot of selling off TV spectrum. It would be cheaper for the Government to "buy off" any opposition with some dish install subsidies.

This time will be different to before. Originally there was no alternative nor desire to sell of spectrum. The deflectors are doomed.

If there is an election in the next month or so and a government is returned with a very large majority, as seems likely, then they will be in office for many years, and will be able to take the hard decisions and ignore the people of four channel land. It is obvious that Freesat is a better solution than deflectors, and that measage will spread. By the time the future election comes up, the whole issue will be as important as MMDS, or phone masts.

We as a nation have a lot more important things to occupy our pathetic politicians than deflectors. Our politicians may be corrupt enough to think differently but we shall see.

watty

MMDS doomed too. That spectrum is LTE in Europe. Comreg are itching to auction it for LTE.

They won't let UPC have paired spectrum for Broadband with it, to ensure that UPC loses interest in it.

Sam Russell

My mention of MMDS was the historical controversy when it was the solution to all deflector systems with Princess Holdings leading the charge (pardon the pun) against the 'illegal' deflectors.

Very poor marketing on their part and high reliance on the courts led to MMDS not being the answer. Freesat is Free (except for the kit).

Mike 1972

icdg wrote: »

And make no mistake, these are the same people who
- Had no conimption about disobeying the law in the past.

You want some oats for that high horse ?

icdg wrote: »

- Managed to get a TD elected in Donegal on the sole issue of support for their cause..

What a terrible concept democracy is :rolleyes:

icdg wrote: »

I imagine there is no other place in the world where an MP has been elected solely on the basis of citizens apparently god-given right to receive another country's television for free..

Maybe not single issue candidates but there were certainely campaigns backed by fringe and or regional parties in places like South Tyrol (mainly ethnic German enclave in Italy) Closer to home theres that "deflector" on top of Divis Mountain carrying a channel from the Republic of Ireland !

watty

<pedant>
Black Mountain, not Divis
It got licence BEFORE transmitting, not retrospectively.
</pedant>

Mike 1972

watty wrote: »

<pedant>Black Mountain, not Divis</pedant>

[citation needed]

watty wrote: »

<It got licence BEFORE transmitting, not retrospectively.</pedant>

relevence ?

icdg

Mike 1972 wrote: »

You want some oats for that high horse ?

Obeying the law isn't an option, its a duty of every citizen. Personally I'd love to see the broadcasting industry deregulated as far as possible. And via satellite and or closed systems like cable/MMDS/IPTV you should be able to broadcast what you want (subject to the usual boundaries), as long as you can get a provider to carry you.

But we're not talking about these systems. We're talking about the national airwaves. That's a finite resource. If we just said that regulation was abolished, and anyone could broadcast anything terrestrially on any frequency they liked, then we'd have people fighting over frequencies, interference to stations, etc. The Government are entitled to regulate a finite resource. These people not only chose to ignore the law of the land, they also chose to effectively steal content from UK broadcasters by rebroadcasting their signals without premission. Both of these situations remained the case until Comreg, and not of its own volition, stepped in to regulate the situation.

Sam Russell

icdg wrote: »

Obeying the law isn't an option, its a duty of every citizen. Personally I'd love to see the broadcasting industry deregulated as far as possible. And via satellite and or closed systems like cable/MMDS/IPTV you should be able to broadcast what you want (subject to the usual boundaries), as long as you can get a provider to carry you.

But we're not talking about these systems. We're talking about the national airwaves. That's a finite resource. If we just said that regulation was abolished, and anyone could broadcast anything terrestrially on any frequency they liked, then we'd have people fighting over frequencies, interference to stations, etc. The Government are entitled to regulate a finite resource. These people not only chose to ignore the law of the land, they also chose to effectively steal content from UK broadcasters by rebroadcasting their signals without premission. Both of these situations remained the case until Comreg, and not of its own volition, stepped in to regulate the situation.

If I remember correctly, we are back in the days of Ray Burke. MMDS was devised as the method to bring UK TV to two channel land (as it was then) and licences were handed out to various companies, including Princess Holdings, which was associated with Dr. Tony O'Reilly. It chose to put high prices on the service and to confront the 'deflectors' with the full rigors of the law, including the Gardai. The result was high prices for MMDS and single issue TDs. In the end, the deflectors continued in some places and MMDS got a few clients.

Whether the deflectors stole content, or just extended overspill, could be argued. Many deflectors were self-help groups and not commercial operators. The fact that MMDS was marketed in such a heavy handed way with high prices and gardai support has meant that they never took off the way they could have.

MMDS is now run by NTL with a shrinking user base, and deflectors have tempoary licences. Who won?

icdg

Sam Russell wrote: »

MMDS is now run by NTL with a shrinking user base, and deflectors have tempoary licences. Who won?

British Sky Broadcasting, of course.

watty

For a while very true, Sky was in the lead.

Well, UPC and Sky were about neck & neck last year. UPC gaining Sky customers now since launch of HD & PVR. Because UPC has one ingredient Sky can't get in Ireland.
15Mbps, 30Mbps and soon 120Mbps Broadband. VOD coming too.

But UPC are limited to Urban/Suburban with this. So we are seeing Sky wiping out MMDS and UPC doing better in the Cities.

But both are at near saturation. So overall Pay TV numbers can only go down as I explained before as they are artificially high.

Mike 1972

icdg wrote: »

Obeying the law isn't an option, its a duty of every citizen. .

In general yes (although show me someone who reckons they never break the law and Ill show you a self deluded hypocrite) however there are circumstances when precisely the opposite is the case.

icdg wrote: »

But we're not talking about these systems. We're talking about the national airwaves. That's a finite resource. If we just said that regulation was abolished, and anyone could broadcast anything terrestrially on any frequency they liked, then we'd have people fighting over frequencies, interference to stations, etc.

For years this was trotted out as a reason why deflectors (and non-RTE broadcast radio/TV) couldnt be allowed. It was also claimed there were "no frequencies available" (at a time when the UHF band was devoid of signals across more than half of the country) This was exposed as pure nonsense when in the late 1990's the Doc/ODTR (now comreg) were suddenly able to "find" plenty of frequencies to accomodate the newly licenced deflectors (funnily enough mostly the same frequencies which said deflectors had been using for years).

Meanwhile it was the carefuly regulated system of internationally coordinated frequency planning which gave us Mount Leinster and Presley broadcasting DTT on the same frequency !!!

watty

A stunning example of International Co-operation.

Sponge Bob

An Irish solution to an Irish problem Watty They are entirely surplus to requirement when DTT rolls out in Belmullet in 2011 though ...and presumably in West Donegal around that time when Arranmore and Fanad are done