Cold weather, hunting ban?

MarkD.

Strange thread but if it goes below a certain degrees or for a prolonged period of time is it true that all shooting is banned? and if so what can happen and is it the guards that enforce the rule/law? Just want to clear this up just to be on the legal side, if this is a legal issue or if some clubs just enforce it for goodness of the sport.

sikastag

MarkD. wrote: »

Strange thread but if it goes below a certain degrees or for a prolonged period of time is it true that all shooting is banned? and if so what can happen and is it the guards that enforce the rule/law? Just want to clear this up just to be on the legal side, if this is a legal issue or if some clubs just enforce it for goodness of the sport.

Ban last year was implemented to give waterfowl a break due to their feeding and nesting grounds being frozen over. Pheasant, partridge etc were not included. Bad spell lasted for a while but dont know what the exact criteria was for ban to be put in place (ammount cold days, temp etc). Bound to be somone on here that has the full picture though.

MarkD.

Its only right that majority of birds get some relief. As for foxes, even better time to go hunt them cos they'd be out to clean up in this weather :mad:

BELOWaverageIQ

I stand to be corrected but as far as I know if there are 11 consecutive days of frost a voluntary ban comes into force.

Steyr243Hunter

For about first two weeks last Jan there was voluntary ban, dont think theres any legislation to but ban on hunting in cold temperatures. Open to correction.

IceMaiden

It’s a little disappointing that to find the relevant information is not easy, it would be beneficial to the field sports community as a whole & the Irish organisations if it could be found on the appropriate web sites.

The same type but not legally enforceable for R,O,I] is on British wildfowling sites & the BASC. Countryside Alliance Ireland still has some info from previous years but nothing further, the NARGC do not look to have much reference at first glance.
Considering the other threads in this hunting forum[Poaching,Anti s & Political parties] it helps to show there’s some elements still lacking for the general field sports community, self regulation is often far better than imposed legislation & bad publicity does much harm that gets re-hashed by some quarters at any opportunity. Self imposed voluntary bans & consideration for the wildlife in severe conditions can only help promote the concern & understanding of what land management & field sports are involved in. Already this season the British based Game Conservancy Trust has published on line the true benefits for wild birds in relation to the winter feeding of pheasants, here follows a few samples of the severe weather info from GB & last years Country side Alliance.

---

Please note – after seven days of severe weather BASC may well call on all waterfowl shooters to exercise restraint in their shooting, if it appears that birds are under pressure from the weather conditions. Full details on the severe weather procedures, how any voluntary restraint measures can be put in place and when and where any statutory suspensions are in force, will be on the BASC website and updated frequently.

In periods of severe winter weather (usually when freezing weather conditions are persistent) the relevant Government ministers have the power to make a protection order suspending the shooting of wildfowl and waders under Section 2 (6) of the Wildlife and Countryside Act, 1981, and under the Wildlife (Northern Ireland) Order 1985.

The criteria for triggering severe weather procedures are based on the state-of-ground data collected daily by 23 coastal National Climatological Message Stations around Britain. The procedure leading up to a wildfowling ban is as follows:
When more than half of the climatological stations have recorded seven consecutive days of frozen or snow covered ground in Scotland or England/Wales or both, the Joint Nature Conservancy Committee informs BASC accordingly

VOLUNTARY RESTRAINT
Prior to the above procedures being brought into action, the BASC call for Voluntary Restraint, in appropriate areas, from day eight of severe weather, up to the time when any statutory suspension takes place. Such restraints are an integral part of the arrangements for wildfowling during periods of prolonged severe weather. There are guidelines available from the BASC, but there are no set rules as conditions and requirements vary around the country. Wildfowlers are best placed to consider all the facts relevant to their particular locality and to decide the most appropriate action. It is a voluntary restraint that is urged by the BASC, not a ban, although if necessary a self-imposed ban may be the best course of action.

http://www.basc.org.uk/en/codes-of-practice/

GixxerThou

Would like to see the deer season stopped for a while if this weather continues.. The slaughter that took place last season when the deer came down off high ground was insane..

IceMaiden

Which species are affected?
When a Protection Order is signed, it is an offence to kill or take any of the following species, whether on the coast or inland:
Ducks: Mallard, Teal, Wigeon, Pintail, Tufted duck, Pochard, Shoveler, Gadwall, Goldeneye
Geese: Greylag, Pinkfooted, White-fronted, Canada
Waders: Golden plover, Woodcock, Snipe, Moorhen, Coot.
Game birds are not affected, but reared duck are.
Further full details available from BASC
http://www.basc.org.uk/en/codes-of-practice/

http://www.nargc.ie/site.aspx No information easily found

The following taken from Countryside Alliance Ireland
http://www.caireland.org/



Open Season Extension of Temporary Suspension - Republic of Ireland

Thursday, 14 January 2010

The Department of the Environment, Heritage and Local Government has decided that, given the continuing adverse weather conditions, the temporary suspension of shooting of wildfowl which is due to expire on Friday 15 January will now be extended until Wednesday 20 January.
A Press Release will issue later today from the Department and a Government Notice will be in the main newspapers on Saturday.

---

We have had very cold nights with severe cold winds by daytime this week two days of snowfall that’s on the ground locally & the next few nights local area forecasts are for about -3 to -5 with more snow expected so its about common sense & trying to do what is best for the natural wildlife. Locally.

Octopus

The ban last year was brought in by the NPWS in conjunction with the NARGC. I can't remember exactly but the criteria for the ban is for freezing conditions to be recorded at all weather stations in ireland for a consecutive number of days (can't remember how many).
Last January there was freezing conditions at all but one weather station, for the set number of days, but the ban had to be brought in regardless.
The ban only included wading birds but the NARGC asked all clubs that voluntary bans be enforced for all quarry. Also note that wading birds include woodcock and snipe.

One thing to take forward from last year for improvement was the complete communication disaster that surrounded the hunting ban. The government were as usual clueless and had to be informed that a ban was pending. The media were informed but there was very little coverage given to it.

People should use their own initiave in these cases. I'm staying at home today as it's tough for the birds out there today.

bunny shooter

I was always told and still I observe a voluntary "ban" on game shooting after 3 x consecutive days of frost/hard weather and resume 3 x days after it breaks.

Vermin shooting, steps up a gear

Grizzly 45

Only ROI and the UK have this IMHO ridicilous "ban".Not one other EU country has this.Were they to do this most of their hunting seasons would be about three weeks long.FS it's the reason that wild animals and birds eat all round them in Summer and Autumn,that they build up sufficent fat reserves against harsh Winters.Maybe our Irish pheasents and ducks were affected by the Celtic Tiger and decided that the Summer would last all Winter as well..So no need to stock up on fat???:rolleyes::pLast year we lost four weeks of hunting out of a 16 week season thru this.One quater of the season.Bad enough we gat things foisted on us by an anti gun Govt,but that we lose shooting time because of them as well??:mad:

1squidge

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

Only ROI and the UK have this IMHO ridicilous "ban".Not one other EU country has this.Were they to do this most of their hunting seasons would be about three weeks long.FS it's the reason that wild animals and birds eat all round them in Summer and Autumn,that they build up sufficent fat reserves against harsh Winters.Maybe our Irish pheasents and ducks were affected by the Celtic Tiger and decided that the Summer would last all Winter as well..So no need to stock up on fat???:rolleyes::pLast year we lost four weeks of hunting out of a 16 week season thru this.One quater of the season.Bad enough we gat things foisted on us by an anti gun Govt,but that we lose shooting time because of them as well??:mad:

Utter nonsense, It was the hunting organisations that called a temporary ban. It showed that hunting was not indiscriminate or uncivilised but then you will always get the ignorant few who dont care about the wildlife around them and are just in it for self gratification. Too hunt during extreme weather conditions is imo immoral. As too Europe they have a different climate to our own. That is why birds migrate from Europe too the UK and Ireland because of our milder climate. But then again no matter how many times you give the facts some just dont listen.

fiestaman

well said 1squidge, and great point about migrating birds. I think some lads dont understand why birds migrate.

Tackleberrywho

Did anyone try and hunt Deer last year in the frost/snow?

Crunch, Crunch, Crunch Crunch.........(any more crunch and you'd have a monster munch)

Them Size 10's and icy cow hoof holes don't make easy stalking.

Much quieter to walk on wet grass than Snow or especially Ice IMvHO.

I did not go after Birds as they were off the menu, However The Corvids were out in force!

meathstevie

The Flemish region of Belgium suspends all hunting in open field when there's snow on the ground. This in my opinion is a good enough means of determining whether the weather is too hard or not as this region has a mild maritime climate not unlike Ireland.

Octopus

Tackleberrywho wrote: »

Them Size 10's and icy cow hoof holes don't make easy stalking.

Nothing worse than walking in a hoof hole and getting a squirt of freezing water up the back of the leg.:)

Grizzly 45

1squidge wrote: »

Utter nonsense, It was the hunting organisations that called a temporary ban.

RUBBISH!!!!
It was called by the NPWS and DOE.NARGC was second on this one last year.
Nor is it NARGC remit to call a cold weather ban,thats a remit of a minister.

It showed that hunting was not indiscriminate or uncivilised but then you will always get the ignorant few who dont care about the wildlife around them and are just in it for self gratification.

So you are saying then European hunters are indiscriminate and into self gratification and dont care about wildlife?????Mighty wide brush you are using there Boyo!!:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:Maybe you would want to check out how much these indiscriminate hunters put into their lifestyle rather than a "sport"99.9% more than the average Irish "hunter"

Too hunt during extreme weather conditions is imo immoral

.
Morality is subjective to individual take.morality as a majority consensus for law isnt too good an idea.As we have found out in Ireland since the States foundation.

As too Europe they have a different climate to our own

.
Yeah much colder than what we have at the moment, minus 15 in parts.They think we are nuts self denying ourselves a part of our hunting season.But then their season for everything ends Dec31st.So maybe that has somthing to do with it too.

That is why birds migrate from Europe too the UK and Ireland because of our milder climate. But then again no matter how many times you give the facts some just dont listen.

Depends on what kind of "facts" you are giving out.:pac:

ByeByeGTI

This is absolutely nonsense, one week of bad weather and their closing the hunting season. Plenty of wild berries out there.

And i personally think the NARGC are jumping on the band wagon because their only thinking of the insurance implications.

I cant see any other reason, after only a week of this weather.

pedroeibar1

IceMaiden wrote: »

It’s a little disappointing that to find the relevant information is not easy, it would be beneficial to the field sports community as a whole & the Irish organisations if it could be found on the appropriate web sites.

The same type but not legally enforceable for R,O,I] is on British wildfowling sites & the BASC. Countryside Alliance Ireland still has some info from previous years but nothing further, the NARGC do not look to have much reference at first glance.
Considering the other threads in this hunting forum[Poaching,Anti s & Political parties] it helps to show there’s some elements still lacking for the general field sports community, self regulation is often far better than imposed legislation & bad publicity does much harm that gets re-hashed by some quarters at any opportunity. Self imposed voluntary bans & consideration for the wildlife in severe conditions can only help promote the concern & understanding of what land management & field sports are involved in. Already this season the British based Game Conservancy Trust has published on line the true benefits for wild birds in relation to the winter feeding of pheasants, here follows a few samples of the severe weather info from GB & last years Country side Alliance.

---

Please note – after seven days of severe weather BASC may well call on all waterfowl shooters to exercise restraint in their shooting, if it appears that birds are under pressure from the weather conditions. Full details on the severe weather procedures, how any voluntary restraint measures can be put in place and when and where any statutory suspensions are in force, will be on the BASC website and updated frequently.

In periods of severe winter weather (usually when freezing weather conditions are persistent) the relevant Government ministers have the power to make a protection order suspending the shooting of wildfowl and waders under Section 2 (6) of the Wildlife and Countryside Act, 1981, and under the Wildlife (Northern Ireland) Order 1985.

The criteria for triggering severe weather procedures are based on the state-of-ground data collected daily by 23 coastal National Climatological Message Stations around Britain. The procedure leading up to a wildfowling ban is as follows:
When more than half of the climatological stations have recorded seven consecutive days of frozen or snow covered ground in Scotland or England/Wales or both, the Joint Nature Conservancy Committee informs BASC accordingly

VOLUNTARY RESTRAINT
Prior to the above procedures being brought into action, the BASC call for Voluntary Restraint, in appropriate areas, from day eight of severe weather, up to the time when any statutory suspension takes place. Such restraints are an integral part of the arrangements for wildfowling during periods of prolonged severe weather. There are guidelines available from the BASC, but there are no set rules as conditions and requirements vary around the country. Wildfowlers are best placed to consider all the facts relevant to their particular locality and to decide the most appropriate action. It is a voluntary restraint that is urged by the BASC, not a ban, although if necessary a self-imposed ban may be the best course of action.

http://www.basc.org.uk/en/codes-of-practice/

There is a lot of misinformation in some of the posts above, many of which are neither helpful nor relevant to put it politely - BASC and CAI relate to UK, not the RoI. (I agree that CAI is here, but it is very Six County centred because of membership numbers.)

For starters, it is very easy to find the legal position and what has happened in the past - the Minister is empowered to temporarily suspend the open season (Wildlife Act 1976 Section 27) which has been done often enough for all hunters to be aware of it.

Last year following a consultation between the Minister and the appropriate bodies including NARGC on a temporary ban (it did not extend to non-wading birds) agreement was reached to close the season for a period – IMO this was agreed mainly for PR reasons. I was down in Kerry last year while the ban was on, there was no snow on the ground, and it was nonsense to be prevented from shooting.

Some of the commentators here are about as knowledgeable about wildlife and shooting as our politicians are about the economy. Have the critics never read about hunting in the Midwest of the US? Or Canada? Or the Alps? How long does winter last there? Go live in South Bend for a while, the snow starts in October and does not melt until Easter :rolleyes:


P.

IceMaiden

[Originally Posted by IceMaiden
It’s a little disappointing that to find the relevant information is not easy, it would be beneficial to the field sports community as a whole & the Irish organisations if it could be found on the appropriate web sites.]


[The same type but not legally enforceable for R,O,I] is on British wildfowling sites & the BASC. Countryside Alliance Ireland still has some info from previous years but nothing further, the NARGC do not look to have much reference at first glance]

[here follows a few samples of the severe weather info from GB & last years Country side Alliance]

The paragraphs in italics are facts from BASC & similar advice can be found on various other GB/UK field sports websites. As stated it was how they legitimately inform the field sports community & public in such times.

[The following taken from Countryside Alliance Ireland ]
http://www.caireland.org/
[Open Season Extension of Temporary Suspension - Republic of Ireland ]

Again it was for last season I looked on the CAI site found no information for this year ,so performed a search ,amongst much news/info etc for all of Ireland I found the link of the previous hunting suspension in relation to R.O.I
http://www.caireland.org/News/press_releases/Open_Season_Extension_of_Temporary_Suspension_-__Republic_of_Ireland/

[Open Season Extension of Temporary Suspension - Republic of Ireland
Thursday, 14 January 2010
The Department of the Environment, Heritage and Local Government ]

I did remark in fact it was mostly the way such information is publicised in the UK/GB & that the only previous info” I “that is myself had found on that day by net searching -via field sports websites of Ireland or associated to Ireland [countryside alliance Ireland] & NARGC did not at said time of the post have any easily information available to advise or link to such relevant places that would either help guide or display in layman’s terms the law or advisory practise for Ireland.

So it was a very small sample of what it is possible to use to help advise or more using today’s technology in basic terms by some types of field sports organisations for its membership & wider audience who may be from any/many types of background

I do not think most people want to go widely searching the net for this type of information & representative bodies like CAI/NARGC should use the modern technology that’s easily available to them to keep everyone informed of the situation.

In this instance its been reasonably cold for a number of days/nights with more forecast ,Advice also as to what species of game/hunted species to be effected by any voluntary or imposed ban could/should also be easily displayed.Keeping people informed should not be so difficult.

Fortunately now the NARGC has posted its view on the current situation & hopefully if or as things change so will any up dates.


The parts quoted above that I did try to make it clear it was not R.O.I but GB/UK advice with no intention of misinformation & if I did actually cause anyone to be confused or more then I can only apologise as it was not my intention. Sorry.

cavan shooter

People are getting very excited:D

I dont see an issue with what they are saying.

ultimately its down to every individual whether or not they keep hunting in this weather, you know your area you know your birds.

Its aimed at NARGC members and as a member your being asked to refrain from shooting for a period of time. Its your choice..



http://www.nargc.ie/site.aspx

blackstairsboy

Its up to yourself at the moment because there has not been the ban issued by the government. Personally I would not even consider shooting any waterfowl or gamebirds. A great chance to get on top of the vermin though.

pinkyfluff

wel said lad i think anyone who has a real interest in game shootin etc would be feedin wild birds now and concentratin on there future by control al the vermin end of no laws no bans just common sence seriously lads

MarkD.

Whats the best thing to feed pheasants in the chilly weather? I know where theres a good few that are like headless chickens walking around looking for food

pedroeibar1

MarkD. wrote: »

Whats the best thing to feed pheasants in the chilly weather?

Greens;)

CAI has emailed and txtd members this afternoon.

copy:-
We have now reached day 8 in the present cold spell and these conditions are likely to last at least another 5 days. This has caused many lakes, ponds and other ground to remain frozen.
We have now reached a situation where Countryside Alliance Ireland is asking its members to adhere to the call for a voluntary suspension on shooting of any wild bird during this period of adverse weather.

During times such as these it is extremely difficult for many wildfowl and other wild birds to find food and a safe refuge. We are therefore urging our members to both continue and increase the feeding of wild birds during this prolonged period of cold weather, whilst practising a voluntary suspension on the shooting of all wild birds.

Countryside Alliance Ireland wishes to thank and acknowledge our members for their patience and co-operation in alleviating the impact this weather has on our wild bird population. We take pride in our members being aware of the importance and contribution of the wild bird population to our environment.

The Northern Ireland Environment Agency and the Department of Environment, Heritage and Local Government may introduce a Temporary Suspension of the Open Season in the coming days if the weather continues to remain at such low temperatures and we trust our members, who are responsible country sports enthusiasts, will act in a professional and ethical way.

cavan shooter

Yep got that text I am a member of NARGC and CAI (Thats called hedging ones bets):D:D

BoarHunter

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

Only ROI and the UK have this IMHO ridicilous "ban".Not one other EU country has this.Were they to do this most of their hunting seasons would be about three weeks long.FS it's the reason that wild animals and birds eat all round them in Summer and Autumn,that they build up sufficent fat reserves against harsh Winters.Maybe our Irish pheasents and ducks were affected by the Celtic Tiger and decided that the Summer would last all Winter as well..So no need to stock up on fat???:rolleyes::pLast year we lost four weeks of hunting out of a 16 week season thru this.One quater of the season.Bad enough we gat things foisted on us by an anti gun Govt,but that we lose shooting time because of them as well??:mad:

In France there is a ban in case of of severe weather. The hunting is also forbidden when snow covers entirely the ground - Only animals subject to culling plans are still subject to hunting then ( mainly big game ) - same in Germany

ByeByeGTI

QUOTE from NARGC website:

NARGC is urging all club members with immediate effect to refrain from hunting all birds during this period.
We appeal to all Delegates, RGC and Club Officers to ensure that this notice is brought to the attention of all club members immediately.

Anybody ask them self's why are the insurance company's are the one's pushing this NOT the clubs???

marlin vs

ByeByeGTI wrote: »

QUOTE from NARGC website:

NARGC is urging all club members with immediate effect to refrain from hunting all birds during this period.
We appeal to all Delegates, RGC and Club Officers to ensure that this notice is brought to the attention of all club members immediately.

Anybody ask them self's why are the insurance company's are the one's pushing this NOT the clubs???

My club done this last Monday morning without any interference from the N.A.R.G.C.it is just common sence, the bird's have it hard enough without the hassel of us hunting them,and the berries are well gone where I hunt.

kfod

Went for a walk earlier, could see the snipe huddling into the reeds, reckon I could have walked up to them and said hello! A woodcock flushed out of a ditch and slowly circled back, no life in it at all. I'll definitely be leaving them alone for a while anyway.

On a different note I did see a fairly lively rabbit and was wondering what people think about shooting them during the freezing weather?

And the amount of Fox tracks is crazy down here!

EPointer=Birdss

Why not hunt game birds?
If you are feeding them all year they don't forget were the hoppers are all of a sudden? If anything they eat more.
If a Lethargic hungry looking one gets up at your toes don't pull the trigger, unload your gun & check your feeders aren't blocked.

As regards waders I can see the logic as frozen ground affects how they feed.

Mallards I've noticed on the water ways eating the last of the acorns from the overhanging trees. Few pan feeders around the place helps them also.

Diving duck on lakes suffer a bit but have to make due on the rivers also. No frozen rivers around yet!!

Common sense approach needs to be taken & just coz it's cold or not cold it makes no odds on vermin control. It should be constant all year round. It might be easier when the predators are feeling the cold. Some would see that as a hint hypocritical. (not me-makes sense) But you can see how this could be twisted to make hunters blood thirsty opportunists!
In short your own common sense needs to prevail. If under a blanket of snow give the birds & the dogs a rest. If just frosty & cold tip away using experience & good judgement... :cool:

ronn

cavan shooter wrote: »

Yep got that text I am a member of NARGC and CAI (Thats called hedging ones bets):D:D

why have you got 2 insurance's, does one cover one thing and the other covers another,
just curious,
sorry for going off topic,

Grizzly 45

BoarHunter wrote: »

In France there is a ban in case of of severe weather. The hunting is also forbidden when snow covers entirely the ground - Only animals subject to culling plans are still subject to hunting then ( mainly big game ) - same in Germany

Dunno about le France Boar hunter:) ,but in Germany I have as have plenty of others hunted boar,deer,game birds and waterfowl down in minus 20 degrees,in full snow cover[of maybe 4ft drifts].I've hunted duck while the Rhine/Main river was closed to water traffic due to Ice floes,and the duck didnt seem too badly put out either.They simply congregated on patches that were open water.Now,either I ,and many others were breaking the law,or there is somthing wrong here??Certainly I've never heard of it in any of the states in Germany having a cold weather ban.
Only cold weather ban was when we just couldnt get out of the reserve,because all our 4WDS were stuck in snowdrifts.:D

doctor evil

ByeByeGTI wrote: »

This is absolutely nonsense, one week of bad weather and their closing the hunting season. Plenty of wild berries out there.

And i personally think the NARGC are jumping on the band wagon because their only thinking of the insurance implications.

I cant see any other reason, after only a week of this weather.

For PR reasons it would be very important to get the voluntary notice out quick. A lot of it is common sense, depensing on where you are there might not be that much wild berries.

cavan shooter

ronn wrote: »

why have you got 2 insurance's, does one cover one thing and the other covers another,
just curious,
sorry for going off topic,

NARGC because I am a member of NARGC gun Clubs CAI because of some clay shooting. They don't talk to each other and dont recognise each others funds.:rolleyes:

bibio

We have just sent a text to all our club members asking that shooting be suspended untill weather lets up. There is no sport in hunting birds in this weather, pheasants are beside the feeders, and are easily shot. Duck, and waders cannot feed in 80-90% of thier available habitat and get concentrated into rivers and the edges of streams and rivers.
I can only speak for Wicklow and Dublin, but I would imagine it is the same all over leinster, but anyone shooting birds in these conditions cannot call themselves a sportsman.

mallards

Call for voluntary restraint at the minute up North. It will become illegal to hunt waders and wildfowl on the 9th of December if the weather doesn't let up. But there's always tons of foxes and crows to keep the barrels warm in this weather.

Mallards

Birdnuts

mallards wrote: »

But there's always tons of foxes and crows to keep the barrels warm in this weather.

Mallards

Well said - cleanin up on Charlie at the back of my uncles place near Naas this week- dogs are havin a ball:D

MarkD.

Does this apply to areas that have no snow on the ground? Some parts of North Cork have no snow like where I am now. Seeing plenty of pheasants about that dont look too hungry. Its cold outside ya, but no snow blanket. In some very shaded areas there is a very thin layer of snow. But thats only in the very odd field

pedroeibar1

MarkD. wrote: »

Does this apply to areas that have no snow on the ground? Some parts of North Cork have no snow like where I am now. Seeing plenty of pheasants about that dont look too hungry. Its cold outside ya, but no snow blanket. In some very shaded areas there is a very thin layer of snow. But thats only in the very odd field

+1
Exactly the point I made above. It does apply to areas where there is no snow. Just because there is some snow in parts of the country why should there be a blanket ban? I never have seen so many holly berries - there is plenty of food and water in parts of the country.

The various bodies are trying to outdo each other with their 'holier than thou' attitudes. Just shows how terrified they are of the antis and any possible bad PR. Why respond with a negative? It would be far better for them to stress positives like the amount of cover crops that the clubs have planted and the feeders that are being topped-up that now are providing food and protection for all wild birds.

Too long in comfortable jobs, nice offices and no pressure to bring the fight to the antis.
P.

ByeByeGTI

I can see why people want to close the season during this cold spell.... in fairness i've been doing some research online and found in northern america that:

pheasants have a keen sense of smell and can find even scarce amounts of food and they can use their feet to dig through over a foot of snow.
AND
On the whole, pheasant can go for long periods without food, living off the fat they stored from summer and fall.

cavan shooter

Lads text from countryside alliance that the open season for hunting wild birds has been temporarily suspended.

ie. The ban that was voluntary is now compulsory

http://enviroireland.com/?p=2163

Hunterjohnb

MarkD, if this weather continues the Minister for Environment will announce a ban on hunting and game shooting on Wed. 8/12 commencing at 00.01 on 9/12. Hope this answers your question.

1squidge

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

RUBBISH!!!!
It was called by the NPWS and DOE.NARGC was second on this one last year.
Nor is it NARGC remit to call a cold weather ban,thats a remit of a minister.
The Nargc was not second It was consulted along with the Doe and the Npws and It was a joint decision where the Government depts dealt with the legalities and the Nargc asked Its members too observe the ban. A quote from Mr Des Crofton Director of the NARGC " The Association supports and welcomes this measure as in current conditions It is necessary and beneficial"

So you are saying then European hunters are indiscriminate and into self gratification and dont care about wildlife?????Mighty wide brush you are using there Boyo!!:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:Maybe you would want to check out how much these indiscriminate hunters put into their lifestyle rather than a "sport"99.9% more than the average Irish "hunter"
Show me where I said European Hunters are indiscriminate and into self gratification. I never even mentioned European Hunters I was talking about European climate as compared too Irelands which is supposed to be milder during winter hence Birds migrate from the colder climbes of Europe too the milder climate of Ireland. So when we as in "Ireland" get extreme weather events it is only right that a cold weather ban comes in.
.
Morality is subjective to individual take.morality as a majority consensus for law isnt too good an idea.As we have found out in Ireland since the States foundation.
Yes Morals should be imposed on one self hence it was my opinion as I'm speaking for myself and not "a majority"
.
Yeah much colder than what we have at the moment, minus 15 in parts.They think we are nuts self denying ourselves a part of our hunting season.But then their season for everything ends Dec31st.So maybe that has somthing to do with it too.
I'll say It just one more time. During Winter our own populations of wildfowl and other bird species migrate from the colder climbes of Europe too the Uk and Ireland due too milder winters caused by the Gulf Stream. When these birds arrive they feed in the fields and coastal areas of the country. Too find that these areas are frozen and snowed over is Like finding your crops destroyed by a storm. With a large part of their feeding areas snowed over A large proportion of these birds will congregate in the small feeding areas that are left untouched by the extreme weather and the birds will struggle too keep healthy and some will perish due too the extremes. Now if you want too shoot already weak and struggling birds then go ahead nobody is physcally stopping you but as I said this is where ones own morals come in and I know I'd rather shoot vermin than a struggling bird.


Depends on what kind of "facts" you are giving out.:pac:

All of the above are facts, Ok Boyo:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:;) Ps Multi quote went a bit wrong Fact

Grizzly 45

OK having to de construct from your massive quote...


The Nargc was not second It was consulted along with the Doe and the Npws and It was a joint decision where the Government depts dealt with the legalities and the Nargc asked Its members too observe the ban. A quote from Mr Des Crofton Director of the NARGC " The Association supports and welcomes this measure as in current conditions It is necessary and beneficial"

If you care to research last years CWB you will find that NPWS and NARGC almost announced the CWB and the support at the same time.There is NO joint decision..What the minister says goes,NARGC isnt a legislative body in the Dail[unfortuneatly].Des cant turn around to the Minister and say"well actually,CWB are a load of tripe,and I'm not advising my members to observe it!"If it is a ministerial order it is law.

Show me where I said European Hunters are indiscriminate and into self gratification. I never even mentioned European Hunters

Er thread is; i said
"Not one other EU country has this.Were they to do this most of their hunting seasons would be about three weeks long."
You responded
" It showed that hunting was not indiscriminate or uncivilised but then you will always get the ignorant few who dont care about the wildlife around them and are just in it for self gratification."

ERGO YOU are implying that the Europeans are only into self gratification and are uncivillised.????Thats the way it comes across...

I was talking about European climate as compared too Irelands which is supposed to be milder during winter hence Birds migrate from the colder climbes of Europe too the milder climate of Ireland. So when we as in "Ireland" get extreme weather events it is only right that a cold weather ban comes in.

BUT then if these birds migrate here[Didnt know pheasents migrate,but you live and learn] then they are used to more severe conditions from the continent,so our balmy to them, minus 10 or 15 is nothing compared to minus 30 to minus 45 that they leave from in the Baltic or Russia?So they cant survive a mild Irish Winter without massive help from us humans?????
Really...:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

Yes Morals should be imposed on one self hence it was my opinion as I'm speaking for myself and not "a majority"
.
But this is a majority decision imposed by law,so your and my morals are subjective and irrevelant.



Too find that these areas are frozen and snowed over is Like finding your crops destroyed by a storm. With a large part of their feeding areas snowed over

And they didnt just leave areas like that??Oh Calamaity!!Thank God they make it to Ireland where the kind humans wont hunt them and will feed them!!I wonder how they managed for centuries and proably thru the last Ice age when there were no humans not around to shoot them or crops or conserved feeding grounds??? FACT is wild game and especially wildfowl is alot hardier than what we credit it for.They have inbuilt survival systems that have been honed for aeons for extremes of tempratures.Nature provides them with survival skills and body fat to survive thru Winter.
We think we are doing them a favour,we are not.We are allowing the weaker birds to die of starvation.

A large proportion of these birds will congregate in the small feeding areas that are left untouched by the extreme weather and the birds will struggle too keep healthy and some will perish due too the extremes.

So its better then to let a surplus pouplation die off of starvation rather than harvest it in the cold weather???Odd idea of conservation there.



Now if you want too shoot already weak and struggling birds then go ahead nobody is physcally stopping you but as I said this is where ones own morals come in and I know I'd rather shoot vermin than a struggling bird.

Your perogative,I personally would rather harvest birds that might already be weak,but will die a lingering death of starvation than be put out of their misery and allow the healthier stocks to survive on the limited resources that migt or might not be out there.Rather than a misplaced idea that not shooting is going to help conservation,by letting the weak compete, and lose out to the stronger for limited foodstuffs so that all can suffer equally.Its democratic,but not how nature works.
As for being physically stopped,well I reckon if I were to bump into a NPWS ranger just coming off the vesturay ,he might have somthing to say about it??

1squidge

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

OK having to de construct from your massive quote...


The Nargc was not second It was consulted along with the Doe and the Npws and It was a joint decision where the Government depts dealt with the legalities and the Nargc asked Its members too observe the ban. A quote from Mr Des Crofton Director of the NARGC " The Association supports and welcomes this measure as in current conditions It is necessary and beneficial"

If you care to research last years CWB you will find that NPWS and NARGC almost announced the CWB and the support at the same time.There is NO joint decision..What the minister says goes,NARGC isnt a legislative body in the Dail[unfortuneatly].Des cant turn around to the Minister and say"well actually,CWB are a load of tripe,and I'm not advising my members to observe it!"If it is a ministerial order it is law.





Er thread is; i said
"Not one other EU country has this.Were they to do this most of their hunting seasons would be about three weeks long."
You responded
" It showed that hunting was not indiscriminate or uncivilised but then you will always get the ignorant few who dont care about the wildlife around them and are just in it for self gratification."

ERGO YOU are implying that the Europeans are only into self gratification and are uncivillised.????Thats the way it comes across...

I was talking about European climate as compared too Irelands which is supposed to be milder during winter hence Birds migrate from the colder climbes of Europe too the milder climate of Ireland. So when we as in "Ireland" get extreme weather events it is only right that a cold weather ban comes in.

BUT then if these birds migrate here[Didnt know pheasents migrate,but you live and learn] then they are used to more severe conditions from the continent,so our balmy to them, minus 10 or 15 is nothing compared to minus 30 to minus 45 that they leave from in the Baltic or Russia?So they cant survive a mild Irish Winter without massive help from us humans?????
Really...:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

Yes Morals should be imposed on one self hence it was my opinion as I'm speaking for myself and not "a majority"
.
But this is a majority decision imposed by law,so your and my morals are subjective and irrevelant.



Too find that these areas are frozen and snowed over is Like finding your crops destroyed by a storm. With a large part of their feeding areas snowed over

And they didnt just leave areas like that??Oh Calamaity!!Thank God they make it to Ireland where the kind humans wont hunt them and will feed them!!I wonder how they managed for centuries and proably thru the last Ice age when there were no humans not around to shoot them or crops or conserved feeding grounds??? FACT is wild game and especially wildfowl is alot hardier than what we credit it for.They have inbuilt survival systems that have been honed for aeons for extremes of tempratures.Nature provides them with survival skills and body fat to survive thru Winter.
We think we are doing them a favour,we are not.We are allowing the weaker birds to die of starvation.

A large proportion of these birds will congregate in the small feeding areas that are left untouched by the extreme weather and the birds will struggle too keep healthy and some will perish due too the extremes.

So its better then to let a surplus pouplation die off of starvation rather than harvest it in the cold weather???Odd idea of conservation there.



Now if you want too shoot already weak and struggling birds then go ahead nobody is physcally stopping you but as I said this is where ones own morals come in and I know I'd rather shoot vermin than a struggling bird.

Your perogative,I personally would rather harvest birds that might already be weak,but will die a lingering death of starvation than be put out of their misery and allow the healthier stocks to survive on the limited resources that migt or might not be out there.Rather than a misplaced idea that not shooting is going to help conservation,by letting the weak compete, and lose out to the stronger for limited foodstuffs so that all can suffer equally.Its democratic,but not how nature works.
As for being physically stopped,well I reckon if I were to bump into a NPWS ranger just coming off the vesturay ,he might have somthing to say about it??

Sorry , You need to do a bit more research on the climates of the Western Paleartic, Migration, Extreme weather conditions, Wild Migratory Birds as opposed too Pen reared Birds,, Democracy as opposed too Natures Survival of the fittest, Conservation etc.
Taken from the irish times.
Ciarán O’Keeffe, director of the National Parks and Wildlife Service, said while there was an improvement in the weather, there were still freezing night-time conditions and it was essential that wild birds be given time to recover from the bad spell.
He said the temporary closure was to protect wild ducks, geese, waders and other wild game birds during this cold weather and he urged all hunters to respect this measure which clearly had a conservation benefit for the long-term populations of the wild game species.
The decision, he said, had been taken following consultation with the National Association of Regional Game Councils.
Other hunting organisations and BirdWatch Ireland also supported the ban.

So the ban is about Bird Welfare and Long term Conservation and not about banning shooting and too say that you can pick out the weakest bird from a flock when infact they are ALL struggling seems to me like shoot first think later.
There are too many reasons why it is right too call a temporary ban and a little bit of research will explain why but for some the facts are still not enough and In my opinion that smacks of self gratification.
BTW I HUNT aswell. I will not reply further in this thread as it will just go around in circles.

Grizzly 45

Taken from the irish times.
Ciarán O’Keeffe, director of the National Parks and Wildlife Service, said while there was an improvement in the weather, there were still freezing night-time conditions and it was essential that wild birds be given time to recover from the bad spell.
He said the temporary closure was to protect wild ducks, geese, waders and other wild game birds during this cold weather and he urged all hunters to respect this measure which clearly had a conservation benefit for the long-term populations of the wild game species.
The decision, he said, had been taken following consultation with the National Association of Regional Game Councils.
Other hunting organisations and BirdWatch Ireland also supported the ban

Fine,he can quote whatever he wants.I'll go with the European and US experts and hunters on this who actually live in extreme cold conditions,every year and hunt and have more experiance of it for decades than we have in two years of a relatively easy Winter by their standards.If you want to lose how many weeks of your shooting season thats fine by me.
.

So the ban is about Bird Welfare and Long term Conservation and not about banning shooting and too say that you can pick out the weakest bird from a flock when infact they are ALL struggling seems to me like shoot first think later.

No .Its called selectively picking a point and trying to make an arguement on it.It is simply reducing the pouplation to be able to deal with the available resources.Thats Natures way of culling the weak.Its called being realistic.

There are too many reasons why it is right too call a temporary ban and a little bit of research will explain why but for some the facts are still not enough and In my opinion that smacks of self gratification.

Thats Your opinion..And you are welcome to it.However it is wrong by the rest of the hunting world,which going by you is into self gratification anyway.....Thats the parts that DO have extreme winters BTW,and those that DO actually train their hunters and spend more on conservation in a year than we as Irish hunters spend in a decade.We have a bad case of misplaced morality in this arguement that flies in the face of nature and actual reality conservation.

BTW I HUNT aswell. I will not reply further in this thread as it will just go around in circles.

Your choice too.

ByeByeGTI

Just like to let all ye know that I did not listen to NARGC last week and hunted away.

Now that the ban is official i suppose i will have to stop.

i think this ban is a load of rubbish.

Eddie B

Lad's i find it very sad that some lads continue hunting game during this hard weather!
Fair enough, some area's didn't get the snow, but for the area's that did, game hunting should be stoped till the weather improves!

There's a few lads in our club that are whinging about the ban on game shooting, most of which never put out a bucket in their live's, and don't bother their h*les shooting vermin and see it as a waste of a cartridge!

These are the same lad's that complain about lack of birds, and having to sell ticket's in the Xmas draw e.t.c, e.t.c!!!!

Im sure there's a few of these lad's in every club, give nothing and take all!:mad:

marlin vs

ByeByeGTI wrote: »

Just like to let all ye know that I did not listen to NARGC last week and hunted away.

Now that the ban is official i suppose i will have to stop.

i think this ban is a load of rubbish.

It's a sport ,not a job to make a living.

marlin vs

Eddie B wrote: »

Lad's i find it very sad that some lads continue hunting game during this hard weather!
Fair enough, some area's didn't get the snow, but for the area's that did, game hunting should be stoped till the weather improves!

There's a few lads in our club that are whinging about the ban on game shooting, most of which never put out a bucket in their live's, and don't bother their h*les shooting vermin and see it as a waste of a cartridge!

These are the same lad's that complain about lack of birds, and having to sell ticket's in the Xmas draw e.t.c, e.t.c!!!!

Im sure there's a few of these lad's in every club, give nothing and take all!:mad:

You never said a truer word.