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Upgrade Time

  • 27-11-2010 7:15pm
    #1
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 187 ✭✭


    Hi guys,
    I built my first pc here last year and I think its time to do some upgrades on it.
    The current build is fine but I want to updates the graphics to something newer.
    Currently I have a 4850 512mb @stock and Im thinking of upgrading to a gtx460 or something else, but my case (Cooler Master Elite 330) at the moment is kinda cramped. (Look at attached pictures)

    So in short, should I upgrade the graphics card or upgrade the case.

    Thanks


Comments

  • Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 18,381 Mod ✭✭✭✭Solitaire


    1. What CPU/RAM?
    2. What monitor resolution?
    3. Can't you just move those HDDs up or down out of the way?? :confused::p


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 187 ✭✭jak/mar


    Solitaire wrote: »
    1. What CPU/RAM?
    2. What monitor resolution?
    3. Can't you just move those HDDs up or down out of the way?? :confused::p

    CPU: AMD Phenom x3 720 BE @3.2ghz
    RAM: 2x2gb GEIL

    Monitor is 1280x1024

    As with moving the drives out of the way I could always do that :p

    Oh and the PSU is 550W


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 5,824 ✭✭✭RoyalMarine


    jesus h christ.

    thats a messy computer!

    my advice, move the bottom harddrive down to the bottom slot. move the other harddrive up 1 slot.
    buy some more cable ties and some double sided sticky tape. go to town on tidying up them cables out of the way.

    you will easily fit any gpu in there then.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 187 ✭✭jak/mar


    jesus h christ.

    thats a messy computer!

    my advice, move the bottom harddrive down to the bottom slot. move the other harddrive up 1 slot.
    buy some more cable ties and some double sided sticky tape. go to town on tidying up them cables out of the way.

    you will easily fit any gpu in there then.

    Yeah I never decided to tidy up the cables more since there's no cable management system in the case.

    And I can see if I move the drives out of the way I'll fit a bigger card in.


  • Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 18,381 Mod ✭✭✭✭Solitaire


    The average HD6850 is a bit longer than the short-PCB HD4850 but shorter than a full ATX mobo (e.g. yours!) is wide ;)


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 187 ✭✭jak/mar


    Solitaire wrote: »
    The average HD6850 is a bit longer than the short-PCB HD4850 but shorter than a full ATX mobo (e.g. yours!) is wide ;)

    Whats the average price a 6850 is going for?

    Oh Ive tidied up the cables a little bit. Ive moved the hard drive down but i can move the other up because thats for smaller things. I will do more tidying tomorrow when I find more of my cable ties:p


  • Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 18,381 Mod ✭✭✭✭Solitaire


    Probably ~€180 once you add shipping, the cheaper the card the higher the shipping :o


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 187 ✭✭jak/mar


    Which one would be the better 6850 to go for
    http://www.pixmania.ie/ie/uk/7594804/art/sapphire-technology/radeon-hd-6850-1-gb-gddr5.html
    or
    http://www.ebuyer.com/product/244442

    I know the ASUS one has a slight clock increase and has voltage control but would it be worth the extra euro if I wont be overclocking it?

    PS What's ebuyer's shipping costs if the ASUS is the better one?


  • Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 18,381 Mod ✭✭✭✭Solitaire


    No competition. The Asus features a pathetic 15MHz clock speed advantage - less than 2% increase - in return for costing over €30 more including shipping. The Sapphire is a much better buy for under €173 shipped, and if you're not extreme-OCing the additional features of the Asus are useless anyway. With either card you can just go into CCC's Overdrive tab and boost the clocks by 50MHz if you want to OC anyway ;)


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 27 AengusMB


    Just looking at the pictures, your CPU cooler fan should ideally be blowing towards the back extractor fan, as far as i know. Is there enough room or do you have the possibility to point it around the other way? I can see you don't have a massive amount of room there, but it LOOKS like enough. But yeah, I'd agree with moving the hard drives and tidying up those cables.. :P
    I went with the GTX 460, great bang for buck IMO.


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  • Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 18,381 Mod ✭✭✭✭Solitaire


    Yup, cooler is wrong way around, if you can't point it front-to-back because of the AM3 mounting then it should be pointing bottom-to-top, not the other way around! :eek::p


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 187 ✭✭jak/mar


    AengusMB wrote: »
    Just looking at the pictures, your CPU cooler fan should ideally be blowing towards the back extractor fan, as far as i know. Is there enough room or do you have the possibility to point it around the other way? I can see you don't have a massive amount of room there, but it LOOKS like enough. But yeah, I'd agree with moving the hard drives and tidying up those cables.. :P
    I went with the GTX 460, great bang for buck IMO.

    I can't turn the cooler around because it's an AM3 motherboard and thats the orientation that the cooler has to be in. I wanted to have to blowing towards the back but you can only do that on intel motherboard.
    I have tidied up the cables a bit today.
    It was hard as there is no room behind the motherboard but I managed to tidy it up a bit.

    Would a 460 work with 550W and where would I get it for the cheapest?
    Solitaire wrote: »
    Yup, cooler is wrong way around, if you can't point it front-to-back because of the AM3 mounting then it should be pointing bottom-to-top, not the other way around! :eek::p

    Aww you're joking :eek: I got the cooler last christmas and I think I had tried every possible way to get it in :mad:

    Ah well thats another job to do for next weekend, unless I get off school tomorrow cause of the snow :p


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 27 AengusMB


    jak/mar wrote: »
    Would a 460 work with 550W and where would I get it for the cheapest?

    Yeah, shouldn't have any problems with 550W, and this model is the cheapest 1GB i've found:
    http://www1.hardwareversand.de/articledetail.jsp?aid=36451&agid=707


  • Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 18,381 Mod ✭✭✭✭Solitaire


    In your current config its causing gasping for both the cooler and the PSU - their fans are opposing and thus fight each other for available air :o If the cooler has the intake/push fan at the bottom it will take air from low-mounted intake casefans faster and propel the exhaust through the PSU and with greater force ;)


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 187 ✭✭jak/mar


    Solitaire wrote: »
    In your current config its causing gasping for both the cooler and the PSU - their fans are opposing and thus fight each other for available air :o If the cooler has the intake/push fan at the bottom it will take air from low-mounted intake casefans faster and propel the exhaust through the PSU and with greater force ;)

    If I'm going to refit the cooler when I remove it do I have to take the thermal paste off the processor and cooler and reapply it to both or do I can I just leave it as it is and just turn it around?


  • Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 18,381 Mod ✭✭✭✭Solitaire


    You'd have to reapply :o


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,353 ✭✭✭Sasquatch76


    AengusMB wrote: »
    Yeah, shouldn't have any problems with 550W, and this model is the cheapest 1GB i've found:
    http://www1.hardwareversand.de/articledetail.jsp?aid=36451&agid=707
    I was going to post saying that I found the card for €5 more on a few places that will charge considerably less than HVS's €30 flat delivery charge, but then I found this Gainward 1GB for €140 on Pixmania.

    Are Gainward still a respected brand? I heard they were taken over by someone else... Palit maybe??


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 187 ✭✭jak/mar


    Solitaire wrote: »
    You'd have to reapply redface.gif

    On both the cooler and cpu?

    I was going to post saying that I found the card for €5 more on a few places that will charge considerably less than HVS's €30 flat delivery charge, but then I found this Gainward 1GB for €140 on Pixmania.

    Are Gainward still a respected brand? I heard they were taken over by someone else... Palit maybe??

    So it's now 460 VS 6850. Which would be the best?
    My dad thinks that he read here on boards that pixmania are having trouble with orders at the moment about not getting what you ordered. Is this the case or is it safe to buy off them?


  • Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 18,381 Mod ✭✭✭✭Solitaire


    jak/mar wrote: »
    On both the cooler and cpu?

    No! :P You have to clean both off though! Then reapply a thin layer of thermal gunk on the CPU's heatspreader then reinstall the (naked) cooler base, only this time with the intake fan facing down. Emphasis on thin! ;)
    So it's now 460 VS 6850. Which would be the best?

    HD6850 is stronger and uses a lot less power. GTX460 1GB is a tad cheaper and has CUDA/PhysX. Your call.
    My dad thinks that he read here on boards that pixmania are having trouble with orders at the moment about not getting what you ordered. Is this the case or is it safe to buy off them?

    Are they? Only place with that issue at the moment is Komplett AFAIK.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,245 ✭✭✭✭Fanny Cradock


    I was going to post saying that I found the card for €5 more on a few places that will charge considerably less than HVS's €30 flat delivery charge, but then I found this Gainward 1GB for €140 on Pixmania.

    Are Gainward still a respected brand? I heard they were taken over by someone else... Palit maybe??

    That is an SE card. I'm guessing this means the clock speeds are lower on the Gainworld over against the Palit version. What difference this makes in gaming terms, I don't know.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,353 ✭✭✭Sasquatch76


    That is an SE card. I'm guessing this means the clock speeds are lower on the Gainworld over against the Palit version. What difference this makes in gaming terms, I don't know.
    Yeah, just been reading up on the SE after poggy alerted me in the Bargain Alerts Discussion thread. It's not as good as the standard 460... even the 768MB version :rolleyes:


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 27 AengusMB


    If it's only the clock speeds that are different then you should be able to bring it up to a decent clock speed, providing the cooling's good enough? I don't really know anything about the SE card though.


  • Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 18,381 Mod ✭✭✭✭Solitaire


    Nope, silicon's crippled too, only 288 shader/CUDA cores instead of the usual 336! :eek::mad:

    Add the speed difference and you have a ~18% reduction in performance over a real GF104, although the 256bit SEs have a slight memory bandwidth advantage over the 192bit true cards. Nowhere near enough to close the performance gap though! :o


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 27 AengusMB


    Why would anyone buy it for the €10 price difference? :L Seems like a pretty bad product to bother with really... :P


  • Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 18,381 Mod ✭✭✭✭Solitaire


    According to Hexus nVidia claimed they weren't even releasing those to the general market! They're infamous for this kind of cut-throat aggressive bait-and-switch bull**** though :(:mad:


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 187 ✭✭jak/mar


    I've decided to go for the 6850. Will order it during the week.
    Now to rotate the cooler and I'm sorted for another while.

    Thanks for all your help guys.:D


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 27 AengusMB


    Good luck with it :D


    btw, just something that was addressed earlier, is it essential to clean all of the old thermal compound off every time you reattach the cooler? (Didn't think it was worth a thread)


  • Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 18,381 Mod ✭✭✭✭Solitaire


    Yup. The old stuff gets in the way and can leave either excesses of old manky paste or air gaps or both. That hurts your CPU's ability to get heat away from it into the heatsink, thus higher temps :o

    You only want to use the absolute minimum amount of paste possible to remove any and all air gaps/bubbles from the interface of the two metal pieces ;)


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 27 AengusMB


    Ah right.. Would it make a huge difference to have a lot of compound?

    What would you reccomend cleaining it with?


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  • Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 18,381 Mod ✭✭✭✭Solitaire


    - Not huge, but certainly a fair bit - thermal paste is a lot less effective at transmitting heat than aluminium or copper :o Although not as bad as air! :p

    - Something that is isopropyl-based. Although not as good as the pure stuff (which is impossible to find!) DVD cleaner fluid is dilute iso and pretty darn good while leaving minimal residue. Citrus-based acidic cleaners are the next best and can be purchased by the bottle from Arctic and Akasa. They leave a slight residue, althought the Akasa stuff is probably the least residue-prone cleaner of all the residue-leaving types. Arctic on the other hand actually sells a second bottle to remove the residue from the first! :D:P Next down is acetone which is easier and cheaper to buy and extremely effective in its stronger forms but leaves a noticeable residue and must be kept away from plastics and delicates to avoid damaging them. Last of all there's the white spirit/naptha class which, while effective, is too messy and greasy to recommend. They leave a ton of residue :(


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 27 AengusMB


    I definitely have some DVD cleaner lying around the house..
    Would you use a cotton bud or cloth to clean the surfaces? Or are they prone to getting staticcy? (Definitely a word... :D)


  • Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 18,381 Mod ✭✭✭✭Solitaire


    Non-staticky, non-shedding microfiber cloth of some kind (e.g. glasses cloth - an unused, freshly washed and dried one that is!)


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,917 ✭✭✭B00MSTICK


    OP have you tried unlocking the 4th core on your CPU by any chance?
    May as well give it a go if you have a suitable mobo...


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 187 ✭✭jak/mar


    Ok I turned the cooler around today and everything is working. Temps have dropped by 1-2'C
    B00MSTICK wrote: »
    OP have you tried unlocking the 4th core on your CPU by any chance?
    May as well give it a go if you have a suitable mobo...

    I've always wanted to do it but I would have to update my BIOS first and I'm not pushed on doing that as I dont want to mess up:P


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