Renting a freezing cold house - should we move?

clarea

Please tell us what to do!! My husband is on long term disability allowance and I am his carer. We are receiving rent allowance of €105 per week (the maximum allowed for a couple with no children). We are currently renting a house for €130 per week – we pay in the difference in rent ourselves. The house we rent is bitterly cold and poorly maintained (threadbare carpets, damp around the chimney etc.) We've complained about the damp but he never gets anything done about it. Spending all day at home as we do, we find the cold house extremely depressing. We spend around €1800 a year on heating oil, but the house is still freezing. We have found a new house to rent on a small estate for €138 a week (average price for the area). It is a modern house and in very good condition. Should we move?? It seems crazy to be worrying about paying an extra €8 a week on rent and under normal circumstances I wouldn’t worry but with all the uncertainty at the moment with budget cuts etc I’m not sure whether we should even be entertaining paying more on our rent. It’s obviously going to cost us money to move as well, and as we have a dog we have to fence off one side of the garden where there is no fence – it’s all going to cost us but will it be worth it in the long run??? Trying to make a decision is doing my head in so I’d appreciate hearing what others think.

silja

Only you can make that decision. Personally, if in any way possible, I'd wait the two weeks till the budget comes out so you'll have a better idea of your finances going forward; there is a good chance that social welfare payments and rent allowance may be cut from what I read. Then again, you also have to take into account that you might well spend a significantly lower amount in heating in the new place.

Seaneh

The amount you save in heating will balance out the €8 and your comfort and pace of mind are worth that much at least!
I'd say move.

djimi

I cant believe you even have to consider this for more than a minute! You are currently livign in a house that is not fit for human habitation. For €8 a week more you could be living in a house which is warm and by the sounds of it a lot better than the one youre currently in. With all due respect it really is a no-brainer if you ask me.

I can live with most things, but cold is not one of them. Noone should ever have to put up with cold. You are paying rent to a landlord who very obviously doesnt give a toss about you, so why are you continuing to give them your money?

Graces7

clarea wrote: »

Please tell us what to do!! My husband is on long term disability allowance and I am his carer. We are receiving rent allowance of €105 per week (the maximum allowed for a couple with no children). We are currently renting a house for €130 per week – we pay in the difference in rent ourselves. The house we rent is bitterly cold and poorly maintained (threadbare carpets, damp around the chimney etc.) We've complained about the damp but he never gets anything done about it. Spending all day at home as we do, we find the cold house extremely depressing. We spend around €1800 a year on heating oil, but the house is still freezing. We have found a new house to rent on a small estate for €138 a week (average price for the area). It is a modern house and in very good condition. Should we move?? It seems crazy to be worrying about paying an extra €8 a week on rent and under normal circumstances I wouldn’t worry but with all the uncertainty at the moment with budget cuts etc I’m not sure whether we should even be entertaining paying more on our rent. It’s obviously going to cost us money to move as well, and as we have a dog we have to fence off one side of the garden where there is no fence – it’s all going to cost us but will it be worth it in the long run??? Trying to make a decision is doing my head in so I’d appreciate hearing what others think.

Please. move. We were in much the same situation early this year. Some houses are always cold whatever you burn and this one did not have oil heating even if we could have afforded to run it.

We are disabled pensioners. Same situation; and two dogs and two cats so we understand the upheaval.

Start packing now slowly. Just bit by bit.....

We got a "man with a van" from where we were moving to and we managed the cost somehow. Google that... worked well for us and we got the name from a forum online.

It will be worth it; we moved 300 miles and are so much happier. A better house etc. Health is better and less depression.

A new start.

The only real snag is that you will have to reapply for rent allowance; it is not transferable. If you are still in that same region this will be easier; we are still stuckl waiting for RA after almost four months as the system here is totally different and the paperwork unbelievable.

When we moved within the same town it only took a wee while.

But, please. move and don';t worry. Health matters and damp and cold are killers; I now have worse arthritis and pain from last winter in that dreadful house.

Let us know, please?

amdublin

Why would you stay in a freezing cold house?

Dempo1

Disgraceful situation, I can't help but ask why you have not considered Social housing as opposed to private rented accommodation. I know this may be easier said than done but i would feel your circumstances dictate you would be entitled to consideration. At the very least you should consider looking into having the council/Hse come and look over the house. There are strict guidelines regarding acceptable living accommodation. You also seem to paying excessively for home heating and this if anything suggests the house is unreasonable cold.

I really do believe you should contact your local council, i know this may not be the best option but at the very least you would get affordable, appropriate and long term accommodation.

verywell

For what looks like a dreary winter, you should move. Especially if you are home all day and on disability. It is only Nov and it is bitterly cold outside already. Move and enjoy a cosy winter with peace of mind and less heating bills in a well insulated house.

Also it is a good time to look at places, as you can tell when you view them if there is damp or a cold feeling in them.

I think you already know what to do. Best of luck

LevelSpirit

We just got new heating in our house and walls drylined with 150mm of insulation.
Attic has just had 300mm of insulation put in too.
And its freezing yesterday and today. Even though the rads are hoping off the walls.
Im convinced no amount of heating will work in this weather.
We just have to have the heat on and a fan heater too today.

So OP dont wait for the rest of the winter. Time too do something. But be prepared. Its going to cost more money than normal to heat this week and maybe the rest of the winter than normal.

djimi

LevelSpirit wrote: »

We just got new heating in our house and walls drylined with 150mm of insulation.
Attic has just had 300mm of insulation put in too.
And its freezing yesterday and today. Even though the rads are hoping off the walls.
Im convinced no amount of heating will work in this weather.
We just have to have the heat on and a fan heater too today.

So OP dont wait for the rest of the winter. Time too do something. But be prepared. Its going to cost more money than normal to heat this week and maybe the rest of the winter than normal.

I wouldnt say that. My parents at home got similar insulation put in and 20 minutes after the oil is turned on the house feels like an oven, even in this weather. With that much insulation you should not be feeling the cold.

The_Conductor

Agree with the above.
We have one of the cosiest townhouses you could imagine- however even running the heat on full whack here today I cannot feel my feet anymore and am soaking my hands in a sink of hotwater every half hour to keep feeling in them. Being on Warfarin doesn't help matters- by god you feel the cold......

LevelSpirit

djimi wrote: »

I wouldnt say that. My parents at home got similar insulation put in and 20 minutes after the oil is turned on the house feels like an oven, even in this weather. With that much insulation you should not be feeling the cold.

It usually does feel like an oven after 30 mins or so.
Not this weekend though.
Unless I go outside for a while and then come in -Then it feels warm, if I can feel anything at all.

Thoie

Dempo1 wrote: »

Disgraceful situation, I can't help but ask why you have not considered Social housing as opposed to private rented accommodation. I know this may be easier said than done but i would feel your circumstances dictate you would be entitled to consideration. At the very least you should consider looking into having the council/Hse come and look over the house. There are strict guidelines regarding acceptable living accommodation. You also seem to paying excessively for home heating and this if anything suggests the house is unreasonable cold.

I really do believe you should contact your local council, i know this may not be the best option but at the very least you would get affordable, appropriate and long term accommodation.

If they're on RA, the likelihood is that they're already on the waiting list for social housing, but priority on those lists is given to people with children.

OP, the budget is just over a week away, so if you're worried about cutbacks I'd be inclined to wait and see what the outcome of that is.

While waiting for that, draw up a spreadsheet (or ask someone to help you if you're not comfortable with that) of all your current income and outgoings, and another sheet of the costs of the new place. For example, would travel/transport to shops/hospitals be cheaper from the new place? Will heating be cheaper? If you can map all those out and see if they balance with your current income, then if your income changes with the new budget you can plug in the new numbers and see how things look.

For this week, if you're not using the fireplace and it's still open and working, consider shoving some newspaper/balloon up the chimney to block draughts from there. Just ensure to remove it again before anyone goes to use the fire - maybe stick a note in the grate to remind people the chimney is blocked.

Jesus Wept

Move, cold houses suck.

How are you allowed to rent a house above the rent threshold and 'pay the difference'?

u60gypx5jakoti

If the landlord doesn`t have a BER certificate for the property when you ask for it, is it possible to break a fixed term lease early then, without losing deposit or being liable for remaining rent? I ask because I`m also renting a freezing, terribly insulated house and want to move soon.

clarea

Thanks to everyone for your replies – it’s always good to hear what others would do. We’re still thinking about it, although definitely leaning towards moving – it is what we want to do. However, I think we’re going to see if there’s any way we can delay the owner of the new house until after the budget is through so we know exactly where we stand financially.

Landon Jealous Studio wrote: »

If the landlord doesn`t have a BER certificate for the property when you ask for it, is it possible to break a fixed term lease early then, without losing deposit or being liable for remaining rent? I ask because I`m also renting a freezing, terribly insulated house and want to move soon.

I doubt you would be able to break your lease on these grounds. It is now law that landlords supply a BER when renting property, but if you didn't ask to see it before you signed the lease unfortunately I don't think you would have a leg to stand on now.

djimi

clarea wrote: »

I doubt you would be able to break your lease on these grounds. It is now law that landlords supply a BER when renting property, but if you didn't ask to see it before you signed the lease unfortunately I don't think you would have a leg to stand on now.

Im no expert but Im pretty sure that if a house doesnt have a BER cert then it is not fit for renting, meaning the lease is invalid.

pooch90

djimi wrote: »

Im no expert but Im pretty sure that if a house doesnt have a BER cert then it is not fit for renting, meaning the lease is invalid.

That was my interpretation of it too.

Pkiernan

clarea wrote: »

I doubt you would be able to break your lease on these grounds. It is now law that landlords supply a BER when renting property, but if you didn't ask to see it before you signed the lease unfortunately I don't think you would have a leg to stand on now.

The landlord is required by law to have and make available to a tenant the BER Certificate for the dwelling.

Although not necessarily legal grounds for breaking a lease, the landlord is in breach of the law and subject to a €3000 fine for non compliance. This effectively means that the tenants can tell the landlord they are going. If the landlord wishes to pursue the issue, the tenants merely have to inform the PRTB and/or SEIA of the lack of the BER Cert.

I would make this known to the landlord.

All BER certs are dated meaning that if the landlord gets one done tomorrow he was still in breach of the law and subject to being fined.

OP: Is your tenancy registered with the PRTB? If not, the Landlord is subject to another fine, and cannot avail of their services when it comes to compensation for breaking a rent, nor can he avail of their services when it comes to negotiating return of the security deposit.

Finally, if the tenancy is not registered with PRTB and the dwelling does not have a current BER, then it is most likely that the rental income is not being declared to the Revenue. Another negotiation tool with the landlord.

The lack of a BER Cert has put you in a very strong position viz a viz leaving the home before any lease expires.

Treehouse72

Anyone who has never lived in a place you can't get warm - no matter how much you put the heating on - has no idea how miserable it is. Depressing as OP says. I had that kind of apartment once - never, ever again and insulation is now the very first thing I look at when assessing property I might want to live in.

OP, if you can get out, do it.

The_Conductor

First of all- failure to supply a tenant with a BER certificate is not just cause for breaking a lease under the act.

Not having a BER certificate is illegal- and is monitored by local authorities. The maximum fine for buying/selling/letting a property without a BER, is up to EUR5000 and/or 3 months imprisonment.

I fully sympathise with the OP, however please post accurate information rather than talking off the top of your head.

OP- I suggest talking to your landlord- and if he/she is not amenable to vacating the lease, complying with the lease to the letter of the law, and vacating the lease in an appropriate manner asap.

Treehouse72

All leases have a clause - which I believe is implied even if not specifically stated - that a property must be habitable. My view would be that a home you are freezing in may not rise to the level of habitability - this would be particularly the case if turning on the heating doesn't even work. What I am not sure about though is whether you can invoke this clause after you sign the lease and move in. I think you could to be honest because it would not be reasonable that you could have known how cold the place would be before moving in.

If breaking the lease is the issue holding you back (and not, say, mobility), I'd talk to Threashold or your CWO or even a health and safety authority (anyone!) to see if you have grounds to immediately break the lease. As others have advised, unilaterally breaking it is not wise.

JENNYWREN19

clarea wrote: »

Please tell us what to do!! My husband is on long term disability allowance and I am his carer. We are receiving rent allowance of €105 per week (the maximum allowed for a couple with no children). We are currently renting a house for €130 per week – we pay in the difference in rent ourselves. The house we rent is bitterly cold and poorly maintained (threadbare carpets, damp around the chimney etc.) We've complained about the damp but he never gets anything done about it. Spending all day at home as we do, we find the cold house extremely depressing. We spend around €1800 a year on heating oil, but the house is still freezing. We have found a new house to rent on a small estate for €138 a week (average price for the area). It is a modern house and in very good condition. Should we move?? It seems crazy to be worrying about paying an extra €8 a week on rent and under normal circumstances I wouldn’t worry but with all the uncertainty at the moment with budget cuts etc I’m not sure whether we should even be entertaining paying more on our rent. It’s obviously going to cost us money to move as well, and as we have a dog we have to fence off one side of the garden where there is no fence – it’s all going to cost us but will it be worth it in the long run??? Trying to make a decision is doing my head in so I’d appreciate hearing what others think.

we were in the same position a few years ago, and took on a house €20 a week more expensive than the one we were renting on the hope that we would save money on the heating and it worked for us. Our current heating oil bill is less than €600 - you're paying an exorbitant amount for heating and you shouldn't have to be putting up fences either! think of your health and move!

spurious

Obviously some of the properties described here are just sub-standard, but for a house with unused chimneys, chimney balloons can make a huge difference, as can a heavy lining behind curtains, if spending money on bigger insulation schemes is not an option.

Graces7

The-Rigger wrote: »

Move, cold houses suck.

How are you allowed to rent a house above the rent threshold and 'pay the difference'?

Wondered about that... maybe a very private arrangement with the landlord? ie off the record..??

Although it is fairly recently that the ruling about that came in?

clarea

Graces7 wrote: »

Wondered about that... maybe a very private arrangement with the landlord? ie off the record..??

Although it is fairly recently that the ruling about that came in?

No, we have permission from our CWO.

JENNYWREN19 - you mentioned your heating oil is less than €600 a year - are you at home all day or just in the evenings?

Can anyone who is at home all day give me a rough idea how much they spend on heating oil each year? I'm suddenly beginning to think we are paying an astronomical amount! I just assumed others were paying about the same and the only difference was that they were warm whereas we were still cold. Now I'm wondering if others pay a whole lot less to be warm!!

pooch90

We were living in a draughty house last year. Spent about €1500 in oil for the year. Turned out boiler hadn't been serviced in 5 years and this was draining the oil. If moving isn't an option, make sure your boiler is serviced by LL. Our heating was only working at 55% efficiency. Makes a huge difference when it's serviced.

Graces7

clarea wrote: »

No, we have permission from our CWO.

JENNYWREN19 - you mentioned your heating oil is less than €600 a year - are you at home all day or just in the evenings?

Can anyone who is at home all day give me a rough idea how much they spend on heating oil each year? I'm suddenly beginning to think we are paying an astronomical amount! I just assumed others were paying about the same and the only difference was that they were warm whereas we were still cold. Now I'm wondering if others pay a whole lot less to be warm!!

We don;t have OFCH in this house or the last one. When we did we could not afford to run it. It was never on.

In the last house there were storage heaters that we never used because of the horrendous cost; a superser gas heater helped.

We keep one room warm and use hot water bottles. Here we have a solid fuel stove that heats some radiators upstairs and is great for heating water atop of it so that releases more electricity for small heaters.

Graces7

clarea wrote: »

No, we have permission from our CWO.

JENNYWREN19 - you mentioned your heating oil is less than €600 a year - are you at home all day or just in the evenings?

Can anyone who is at home all day give me a rough idea how much they spend on heating oil each year? I'm suddenly beginning to think we are paying an astronomical amount! I just assumed others were paying about the same and the only difference was that they were warm whereas we were still cold. Now I'm wondering if others pay a whole lot less to be warm!!

How so? he does not make the rules; we had to get our landlord to reduce the rent else the CWO refused the application.