Irish car park spaces are too small

Johnny Utah

Following on from the obnoxious parking thread, I think it's appropriate to point out that the vast majority of Irish car park spaces are too small for the average-sized car. Imo, there should be a buffer zone of about 2-3 feet between each car space in order to allow people to have enough space to open their car door. In the past, I have suffered a few dent marks from other inconsiderate people who have opened their door against my car. Consequently, it's understandable that people sometimes take 2 spaces at the back of an empty car park.

Perhaps, there should be a physical barrier, like a handrail, between car spaces. This would stop people denting other cars when opening their own door and it would also prevent people from parking across 2 spaces.

MarkoC

I agree here.

tfitzgerald

Yes I agree too small parking spaces are the reason most people have small dents in the side if their cars

Atlantic Dawn

It goes down to legislation , there is none.

CarMuppet

Yes I agree too.... But this is an ideal world scenario... Can't see car parks investing in dividing bars. But I like the idea of a larger 'standard sized' space.

djimi

I agree, much too small. Ive lost count of how many times Ive been perfectly parked in a space and unable to open either door more than a couple of inches. Car parking spaces should all be as wide as the P&C spaces at a minimum.

corktina

is it "Irish car park spaces are too small "

OR

"Irish drivers cant park/dont respect other people or their cars"?

Iwannahurl

Agreed, if that's not too boring a response.

Are parking spaces bigger (relative to the size of the average vehicle) in other countries?

Does it depend on spatial planning policies, eg high density in certain European countries versus sprawl in the USA?

Could making parking spaces larger have unintended consequences, eg inviting people to park in an even sloppier manner (diagonally, for instance)?

stimpson

Spaces at a 45 degree angle would be nice too. Liffey Valley has this system. It costs nothing and it makes it far easier to drive in and reverse out. You lose one space on each row, but it's 10 times quicker to get in and out of a space.

Johnny Utah

Atlantic Dawn wrote: »

It goes down to legislation , there is none.

I think there are planning regulations on the size of car park spaces. Not sure what they are though.

corktina wrote: »

is it "Irish car park spaces are too small "

OR

"Irish drivers cant park/dont respect other people or their cars"?

Both.

stimpson wrote: »

Spaces at a 45 degree angle would be nice too. Liffey Valley has this system. It costs nothing and it makes it far easier to drive in and reverse out. You lose one space on each row, but it's 10 times quicker to get in and out of a space.

Yeah, very good idea stimpson.

-Chris-

stimpson wrote: »

Spaces at a 45 degree angle would be nice too. Liffey Valley has this system. It costs nothing and it makes it far easier to drive in and reverse out. You lose one space on each row, but it's 10 times quicker to get in and out of a space.

I hate those spaces. I like to reverse park, and it's virtually impossible with angled spaces due to the one-way system that inevitably accompanies them.

:mad:

Gumbo

Atlantic Dawn wrote: »

It goes down to legislation , there is none.

its part of the Planning Regulations, as set out by the Planning Act.

IIRC its 2.4m X 4.8m

copacetic

-Chris- wrote: »

I hate those spaces. I like to reverse park, and it's virtually impossible with angled spaces due to the one-way system that inevitably accompanies them.

:mad:

thats the point of them Chris? i.e it's a single turn into any spot and a single reverse out for practically anyone.

Rather than what you get in normal cark parks with half the people 3 point turning into the spot, the other half 3 point turning out of the spot. With about half of these people incapable of either!

IngazZagni

I drive a small car so I've never really had a problem with parking however I can understand some people's frustration with trying to get bigger cars into spaces.

-Chris- wrote: »

I hate those spaces. I like to reverse park, and it's virtually impossible with angled spaces due to the one-way system that inevitably accompanies them.

:mad:

I don't know why people bother spending an extra 20 seconds reversing into a spot, what do you achieve, a 10 second quicker departure when leaving? I'm a fan of 45 degrees angled spaces too and find them much easier to get in and out of.

2 stroke

stimpson wrote: »

Spaces at a 45 degree angle would be nice too. Liffey Valley has this system. It costs nothing and it makes it far easier to drive in and reverse out. You lose one space on each row, but it's 10 times quicker to get in and out of a space.

You lose one space per row but you can gain an extra row or 2, as the herring bone is slimmer. Don't like them though, everyone should be made reverse park. More serious damage is done, by reversing blindly into moving traffic than is caused by bumping doors.

The person who isnt able to reverse into an empty space, definitely shouldn't be reversing into traffic.

Voodoomelon

IngazZagni wrote: »

I drive a small car so I've never really had a problem with parking however I can understand some people's frustration with trying to get bigger cars into spaces.


I don't know why people bother spending an extra 20 seconds reversing into a spot, what do you achieve, a 10 second quicker departure when leaving? I'm a fan of 45 degrees angled spaces too and find them much easier to get in and out of.

Because its easier, quicker and safer to drive straight out, than to be reversing out blind, possibly onto a road. Whats not to understand?

mike65

The cars have got fatter but the spaces haven't. Its that simple. Widening them would rob dozens of spaces in a typcial carpark and thats bad for revenue.

2 stroke

I don't think cars have actually got significantly wider, just to many people parking agricultral/offroad type vehicles in carparking spaces.

Danbo!

kceire wrote: »

its part of the Planning Regulations, as set out by the Planning Act.

IIRC its 2.4m X 4.8m

The building regs say 2.4 x 4.8, with 6m reverse space, however it is extremely rare for these to be enforced. Some decent (ha) developers will make them 2.5 x 5 to make it more comfortable.

This is what happens: a draft design is thrown together for planning, at this point most developers want to fit in as many spaces as possible, as planning permission will include the number of spaces allowed as a condition.

The problem here is also that the structure may not be finalised at the planning stage, in the case of underground/multi-storey, once planning is obtained the client comes back and wants to stick a few more storeys on top, so the structural engineer comes back and wants wider columns. So now every 3 or 4 spaces have more concrete sticking into the space. Yes the front of the space might be 2.4m wide, but parts of it are not.

I've seen designs where spaces which would be impossible to get into, or out of, have been sent to the relevant planning dept, who forward all car park and road layouts to the road dept for traffic management checking, and they say it's fine.

The 45 degree parking us called echelon parking, and is much easier for most drivers, however you fit less spaces on your site. Yes the roads can be narrower, because reverse space is measured at 45 degrees, but it still takes more room, so client says no. More spaces = more customers in their mind.

Malice

I totally agree with the OP. I've often encountered stupidly narrow parking spaces. Interestingly the parking space designated for my apartment is too short for my VW Passat. Even if I reverse until the towbar tips the wall behind the car the bonnet is still sticking out of the space. As Atlantic Dawn wrote, the lack of legislation means that there's no onus on whoever marks out the spaces to make sure they are sufficiently big for the vehicles they are intended to contain.

stimpson

2 stroke wrote: »

You lose one space per row but you can gain an extra row or 2, as the herring bone is slimmer. Don't like them though, everyone should be made reverse park. More serious damage is done, by reversing blindly into moving traffic than is caused by bumping doors.

The person who isnt able to reverse into an empty space, definitely shouldn't be reversing into traffic.

You have a lot more visibility when reversing at 45 degrees. Also, oncoming traffic hade a better view of your reversing lights and are likely to give way if looking fir a space.

I do agree about reversing into ordinary spaces. You have better visibility when pulling out. If you reverse into someone when leaving a space you are automatically at fault.

bazzachazza

Compared to where ? I personally think Irish spaces are generally bigger than everywhere in Europe I have been. It takes a lot of planning to park my A6 in France.

I have to say that most irish drivers couldn't centre their car in a spot if their life depended on it and that is where you lose most of the space either side. There has only been a few occasions where I have had to suck in my small ned Kelly to get out of the car.

Malice

bazzachazza wrote: »

I have to say that most irish drivers couldn't centre their car in a spot if their life depended on it

This probably has a lot to do with it as well.

bazzachazza

Watch next time your in a car park the ripple affect of one car not centred or not straight in the spot.

It's a cop out to say spots are not big enough.

Where I work the spots were laid out 22 years ago and I have no problem parking in them. They are Irish average and colleuges of mine park volks transporter vans in them no problem and I can park beside them and get in and no problem.

Stinicker

Our spaces are too small yes, especially compared to American spaces, however Irish people are just bad drivers and small spaces and bad drivers equals disaster.

As a rule I would never let my door touch another persons car and having literally only a few inches to get out off the car is rediculous, there is plenty room for the car just not enough clearance for the doors. I usually face my car head first into the space as it give me easy access to the boot for anything I buy.

Some people really gaul me and my poor mums car has been the victim of several hitch bashings and will soon need a new bumper because of some stupid person in an SUV with a massive hitch protruding out. Funniest thing was the time my mum bought the car new and some idiot who never learned how to parallel park tried the drive into approach instead of the more sensible go forward and reverse approach.

Anyway she caught the car down along the side scraping it badly and then proceeded to drive off. I jumped out of the car and ran down the street where she was stopped in trafficlights and went apesh*t, however in the finish the woman accepted she was wrong and paid for the damage.

_Kaiser_

Malice_ wrote: »

I totally agree with the OP. I've often encountered stupidly narrow parking spaces. Interestingly the parking space designated for my apartment is too short for my VW Passat. Even if I reverse until the towbar tips the wall behind the car the bonnet is still sticking out of the space. As Atlantic Dawn wrote, the lack of legislation means that there's no onus on whoever marks out the spaces to make sure they are sufficiently big for the vehicles they are intended to contain.

+1

Like yourself I find my 06 Passat doesn't comfortably fit into a lot of standard spaces, but also the lanes between spaces seems narrower in certain car parks too which can be a right pain - which is why (like Chris) I generally reverse into spaces too when possible because reversing with only one light (I miss the dual reversing lights from my old 02 Passat!) at night can be very awkward sometimes

Iwannahurl

Dare I mention the poor design and layout of some multi-storey car-parks?

djimi

A lot of it is down to poor parking, but I really dont see how anyone can honestly try to say that on the whole car parking spaces are big enough. Most car parks I use have spaces that would need to be about a foot wider in order to be considered comfortable. Many times I have parked in a space beside a car who is also in their space and its a struggle to get out of the car. Its a joke, and its not just down to bad parking.

Seems to be a bit of a theme on here to blame every problem on bad Irish driving...

JOSman

So, what your saying is that the collapse of parking is because of developers?

Sorry guys, the developer bought a small site and the builder promised 40 parking slots in an area that should only have had 25.

Iwannahurl

Do developers and car designers ever talk to each other?

PARKHEAD67

Johnny Utah wrote: »

Following on from the obnoxious parking thread, I think it's appropriate to point out that the vast majority of Irish car park spaces are too small for the average-sized car. Imo, there should be a buffer zone of about 2-3 feet between each car space in order to allow people to have enough space to open their car door. In the past, I have suffered a few dent marks from other inconsiderate people who have opened their door against my car. Consequently, it's understandable that people sometimes take 2 spaces at the back of an empty car park.

Perhaps, there should be a physical barrier, like a handrail, between car spaces. This would stop people denting other cars when opening their own door and it would also prevent people from parking across 2 spaces.

Agree 100%. I have one of those dents thanks to some idiot not giving a ****e about the car beside em in the car park.Really annoying. I dont have a top of the range merc or anything but I still have a decent car and the disregard people have in car parks for others cars is shocking.Im always worried about what Ill come back to.

red menace

Giant spaces here in Edmonton Alberta,
But cancelled out by giant pick up tr ucks, Ford F350s everywhere

BostonB

Have to agree spaces seem to be a lot smaller these day.

Though thats only partly to blame. Low standard of driving, and a couldn't care less attitude are to blame for the door dints. The last 4 or 5 serious dents, or damage to our cars has all been due to hit and runs in car parks. No fear of enforcement. Most CCTV system are useless when you come to get footage of them.

I prefer reversing in myself. But if you unloading with a big tailgate, mpv etc. it makes more sense to drive in front ways.

RandomAccess

In some places the size seems to vary, Nutgrove shopping center for example.
The ones in the main car park are quite narrow, whereas those on the outskirts near where the eco car wash guys operate, are reasonably wide.

Parking way over there has the added benefit of avoiding the lazy pricks who are typically door bashers. (The worst parkers always try to park as close to the door of the shop as possible I find)

JOSman

Guys. Do what I do and look for the two newest cars in the lot and park between them. Never get a dint unless the wife takes the car.

BostonB

One of mine was caused by a brand new jeep, who decided to park right beside me even though I'd parked about 20 spaces away from anyone else.

galwaytt

Atlantic Dawn wrote: »

It goes down to legislation , there is none.

Iwannahurl wrote: »

Does it depend on spatial planning policies, eg

As other's have pointed out: it is a planning issue. Car spaces are deigned to be a certain minimum size. You can argue about this all you like, and whether its's suitable or not. However, if the planners also continue to make ridiculous qty stipulations for the no of spaces in a development, then ridiculous parking is what you'll get.

Consider: our factory has........about.....15 people in it. But because of it's size (footprint), we were mandated to provide parking for.........100+ cars. Like, wtf. They obviously give no consideration to the actual use, or function, of the building at all. You can assume shopping centre's suffer the same lunacy....

Iwannahurl wrote: »

Do developers and car designers ever talk to each other?

No point: neither are the cause of the problem.

RandomAccess wrote: »

In some places the size seems to vary, Nutgrove shopping center for example.
The ones in the main car park are quite narrow, whereas those on the outskirts near where the eco car wash guys operate, are reasonably wide.

I bet those set's of spaces were not provided at the same time.

focus_mad

The ideal design guide spaces for car parks are 2.4m x 4.4 metres..:D

Eric Cartman

red menace wrote: »

Giant spaces here in Edmonton Alberta,
But cancelled out by giant pick up tr ucks, Ford F350s everywhere

i wish we had those here that said, i can barely park my d-max anywhere in dublin , id imagine an f350 would be a hard one to deal with

Son Of A Vidic

OP - especially underground car parking spaces, they are tiny in this country. When they're full and your lucky to get a space, you need to be a Yoga expert to get out of your car.