Individual businesses vs wider economy?

WTSIB

While always welcoming new business in the area, I wonder about the longer term intentions, and the effects, of the new toy shop in the Westend Retail Park, near Halfords etc in Dublin 15-- named ToysRus......ie or whatever.

On passing the unit quite recently, when under alterations a "contractor" advised that all the refurbishment was "temporary", that the "lease" was "very" short term and that the shop would probably be closed in the new year!!.

It appears to be a hybrid of a high street presence where the customer orders on line and accepts later delivery of the product---a process vaguely described to me recently on enquiry.

My question is that, while this operation may quite reasonably , and fully legitimately, operate under a reasonable business model, should we support a short term operation where short term gains at a longer term cost to the economy exists.

Toys might be cheaper, to some degree, but should we not support home grown established high street TOYSHOPS which have a proven long term track record. and which employ real staff all year round --- rather than the employers of "possible" contract employees on short term six week contracts-- with the principals disappearing for another twelve months, having made their short term gains. ?

Diddler1977

WTSIB wrote: »

While always welcoming new business in the area, I wonder about the longer term intentions, and the effects, of the new toy shop in the Westend Retail Park, near Halfords etc in Dublin 15-- named ToysRus......ie or whatever.

On passing the unit quite recently, when under alterations a "contractor" advised that all the refurbishment was "temporary", that the "lease" was "very" short term and that the shop would probably be closed in the new year!!.

It appears to be a hybrid of a high street presence where the customer orders on line and accepts later delivery of the product---a process vaguely described to me recently on enquiry.

My question is that, while this operation may quite reasonably , and fully legitimately, operate under a reasonable business model, should we support a short term operation where short term gains at a longer term cost to the economy exists.

Toys might be cheaper, to some degree, but should we not support home grown established high street TOYSHOPS which have a proven long term track record. and which employ real staff all year round --- rather than the employers of "possible" contract employees on short term six week contracts-- with the principals disappearing for another twelve months, having made their short term gains. ?

I was on the website but gave ordering anything a miss when I saw it was describing us as Southern Ireland!
http://www.toysrus.co.uk/info/trubw-ireland-express-pick-up.jsf
Found it hard to navigate also.

BostonB

IMO the existing choice of toy stores is very poor. They've killed off the local small toy shops, and now we have warehouses which tend to have few smaller/cheaper items, and really push the big expensive items. Toys shops these days are quite boring places IMO. Its quite marked that ToysRus have a better range of toys. I see stuff there I've never seen in Dublin in the existing stores.

I heard that they are offering an outlet to save people from driving up to it in NI.

I dunno how long term the existing toy store jobs are, I don't think I've ever seen anyone over 21 working in them. Which strikes me as its burn and churn staffing. Maybe I'm wrong.

January

They are planning on opening two stores in Dublin in the new year, they just couldn't fit premises out on time so they brought out this mode for the time being.

http://www.herald.ie/national-news/city-news/toys-r-us-to-open-two-stores-on-m50-sites-2357659.html

BostonB

Smyths doesn't feel like a toy shop to me. Toymaster/Bamba is much better.

Gaspode

WTSIB wrote: »

Toys might be cheaper, to some degree, but should we not support home grown established high street TOYSHOPS which have a proven long term track record. and which employ real staff all year round --- rather than the employers of "possible" contract employees on short term six week contracts-- with the principals disappearing for another twelve months, having made their short term gains. ?

Which home-grown established toy stores are they?

CrazyRabbit

BostonB wrote: »

Smyths doesn't feel like a toy shop to me. Toymaster/Bamba is much better.

And the staff there are truly terrible (in Smyths). In my experience, they don't know what products they sell, where to find them and are not willing to make any effort to try.

jeffk

Ive seen the shop(if you will) and immediately thought of argos when it first came over here.

For anyone who didn't see that set up, it was a basic a set up where you went in to get your orders and was pure madness. Basically it was all storage and then a small counter and the smaller items would slide down onto a counter behind the tills. Its a bit vague to me as its around 15 or so years ago, but you get the idea.

WTSIB

Gaspode,

Do Smyths, in the Retail Park, a native (and expanded outside the Republic) chain of stores, with year round permanent employees, Irish or not, qualify as "home grown etc" Maybe I am missing something-- if so please advise. I have no problem with competition but I do not welcome short term gains by parties who "may" not be around when product / warranty problems arise and we may, if lucky, have to revert to an entity abroad. In any case we need to support local businesses at this time in our economic blowout.
WTSIB

Zaph

The OP is addressing wider issues here which aren't really specific to D15, so I'm going to move it to the Irish Economy forum. Mods, feel free to move it back to D15 if you don't think it's appropriate there.

BostonB

WTSIB wrote: »

Gaspode,

Do Smyths, in the Retail Park, a native (and expanded outside the Republic) chain of stores, with year round permanent employees, Irish or not, qualify as "home grown etc" Maybe I am missing something-- if so please advise. I have no problem with competition but I do not welcome short term gains by parties who "may" not be around when product / warranty problems arise and we may, if lucky, have to revert to an entity abroad. In any case we need to support local businesses at this time in our economic blowout.
WTSIB

Thats seem contrary to whats reported by the newspapers.

I'm sure I'd be loyal to Irish retail, considering it seem more than happy to rip off the consumer. Indeed its that rip off which sent people out of Ireland to shop, and thus attracting those retailers back here.

Where Irish retail offers good value I'd have no problem supporting it. Being "Irish" is not enough.

Hayte

I'd love to support Irish business and retail where its reasonable but far too often I've found that you get burned on the high street in a big way and Irish online retail is truly rubbish from my experiences. Nearly everything I could possibly want to buy online is cheaper from Amazon.co.uk and perversely, it arrives faster too - even the marketplace buys which are all small UK businesses trading under Amazon and paying Amazon commission.

I know what I should do and I do want to keep my money in the country but after taking a huge paycut and several years worth of austerity measures, why would anyone want to pay €99.58 ex shipping for this when you can get it here for £45.33 (€53.00 approx) free delivery and get it delivered quicker?

If it cost a little bit more to buy in Ireland and the delivery times were competitive then I'd probably do it but not for double the money. I'm not about to let anyone do me that badly.

BostonB

Dunno but your kids are going to be miffed when they find a hard drive from santa.

Hayte

I don't have kids but if I did they would be total NERDS.

Gaspode

WTSIB wrote: »

Gaspode,

Do Smyths, in the Retail Park, a native (and expanded outside the Republic) chain of stores, with year round permanent employees, Irish or not, qualify as "home grown etc" Maybe I am missing something-- if so please advise. I have no problem with competition but I do not welcome short term gains by parties who "may" not be around when product / warranty problems arise and we may, if lucky, have to revert to an entity abroad. In any case we need to support local businesses at this time in our economic blowout.
WTSIB

Maybe they do, that's why I was asking.
I have always assumed that Smyths was just a local trading name for Ken Blacks, which is a British company is it not? Maybe you could correct that opinion if it's wrong. (I get the impression you're in the toy business yourself, hence your interest in this subject matter!)
These days it's impossible to tell if a firm is truly 'Irish' or whether all of it's profits are simply being funneled back to a UK or international parent company. So claiming that shopping in Smyths is better in the long term for the economy doesnt hold much sway with me really.
The bottom line for me is that Irish retailers have been ripping of the Irish public for far too long, and have the cheek to moan and groan about any form of competition that comes in, disrupting their cosy market. I've seen this recently over in the musical instruments forum from Irish stores bemoaning the fact that I can buy what I need from UK or German stores for a fraction of the price I'd pay from them in Dublin, urging me to be patriotic!

At this time of the year, price is where it's at, most customers dont care if you are from Ireland or Timbuktu, why should they pay far more for a product in an Irish store, if one across the road (or on the web or up North) has it far cheaper?

Jolly Days

Smyths is an irish company, originally started a small toy shop as far as I can remember in Claremorris and built up from there. Ken Blacks originally had a toy shop in Carlow. He and the Smyths combined resources for advertising and some purchasing. Support them as they are a local success story.

johnnyskeleton

WTSIB wrote: »

While always welcoming new business in the area, I wonder about the longer term intentions, and the effects, of the new toy shop in the Westend Retail Park, near Halfords etc in Dublin 15-- named ToysRus......ie or whatever.

On passing the unit quite recently, when under alterations a "contractor" advised that all the refurbishment was "temporary", that the "lease" was "very" short term and that the shop would probably be closed in the new year!!.

It appears to be a hybrid of a high street presence where the customer orders on line and accepts later delivery of the product---a process vaguely described to me recently on enquiry.

My question is that, while this operation may quite reasonably , and fully legitimately, operate under a reasonable business model, should we support a short term operation where short term gains at a longer term cost to the economy exists.

Toys might be cheaper, to some degree, but should we not support home grown established high street TOYSHOPS which have a proven long term track record. and which employ real staff all year round --- rather than the employers of "possible" contract employees on short term six week contracts-- with the principals disappearing for another twelve months, having made their short term gains. ?

I don't agree that it is a longer term cost to the economy. The staff who work on a short term contract are no less real than any other staff. If customers get a good deal then it is good for the overall economy because it reduces wage demands. And if it causes other retailers to become more competitive, that can only be good too.

It is only bad if you run a toy store that has overpriced products and you don't want to actually compete but instead complain that it is unpatriotic to shop there. Tough luck I say.

WTSIB

Gaspode, it is a gigantic, and mystifying assumption on your part to assume that I am in the toy business, nothing I said would infer this-- nothing could be further from the truth. I am a retired individual in the private sector who just happens to have three mature "children", (one of whom has two children), who work in the private sector and whose employments are not as protected as some. Whatever the real ownership of the Smyths Group (maybe I was wrong) the principal point is that they have been there for a number of years, employ many people, and hopefully will continue as such. They have a more permanent presence and in my opinion deserve some loyalty.

I do fully appreciate that pricing is often a problem with many businesses but lowest price is not always the most important issue-- I have had differences with Smyths, and other retailers in the past, but have regulary had satisfaction on challenging them. I dont particularly like some of the bigger retailers, such as those whose name ends in "Y's" but it does not stop me checking them out and making an informed choice.

BostonB

Not really, perfectly logical. Its an unusual first post to make if you've no connection. Why are there no older staff in Smyths? Suggest to me theres no long term jobs there either. Support a shop ripping you off, because they are Irish. Very Oirish.

Gaspode

WTSIB wrote: »

Gaspode, it is a gigantic, and mystifying assumption on your part to assume that I am in the toy business, nothing I said would infer this-- nothing could be further from the truth.

Yes it was a big assumption on my part, but it was based on my experience of similar posts from first time posters on boards in the past. Dont take offence as none was intended! It was the content of your post I was getting at not you personally.
Your post just reminded me of several I've seen along the same lines, especially in the Instruments forum where local stores were decrying the fact that Irish musicians were buying online or abroad at far lower prices, and that this was somehow unpatriotic.
That argument annoys me: the Irish have been ripped off by retailers here for donkeys years - where's the patriotism in that!

WTSIB

Gaspode, your explaination is accepted- I appreciatethat offence was not intended.

However I would go further on your closing remark about being ripped off. We have been ripped off by bankers, doctors, accountants, dentists, decorators, builders, plumbers, garages, barbers, pubs etc etc. The retailers were only a small part of the "greed" which consumed too many, but not all, in recent years. Some of them will no doubt have their cosy cartels smashed by the IMF-- years too late.--- but that is for another day and another forum.

WTSIB

Zaph/ Gaspode,

The issue here is specific to Dubln 15 in that established local businesses and employment are affected by potential short term/ transient competition, which while entirely legal/ acceptable, is nevertheless transient in nature.

As a newbie, I thought that Moderators were somewhat impartial and actually moderate rather than take strident "sides" in any discussions. Accordingly I will , in future ,observe from the sidelines and desist from expresing views contrary to that the referees .

thebman

Many of these businesses are franchises so they are Irish stores with foreign names that have to pay people to use name and get access to their distribution lines etc...

We had a Toysarus back home in the 90's when I was growing up and it was always a great toy store.

Don't know what the fussing is about TBH.