Bilingual Road Signs in Ireland

Jayuu

From the Original Post

That username is already in use. wrote: »

This thread is only for discussion on the design of bilingual road signage in Ireland.

This thread is NOT a discussion on the Irish language itself.

Links:

• Design research journal by Garret Reil
  An examination of Ireland’s dual-language road signs.
• Forum: Linguistic Issues - Bilingual road signs
  Huge discussion and examples of bilingual road sign around the world.
• Poor Road Signage Pictures thread

I would like to see your proposals for improved Irish road signage in this thread. You can also post examples from other countries.

I guess we're slightly off the topic. The topic wasn't supposed to be about whether we should have bilingual signs but given that we do have them, whether the current versions could be improved.

DJP

MYOB wrote: »

No, I don't think that is justification. A tiny fraction of the population speak Irish as their primary language - to the point that it is not the second most used language anymore - and peoples "love" for a language does not justify the huge costs of pandering to them.

I am talking about everyone who speaks and loves Irish not only the people to whom Irish is their first language.

MYOB wrote: »

Using it in Gaeltachts is all well and good, but using it outside makes absolutely no sense.

It makes no sense to you because you feel no connection to our Gaeltacht/Gaeilge culture, history and heritage.

MYOB wrote: »

Patriotism does not hinge on whether you feel a connection to a language which was re-imposed on us after the foundation of the State.

Now, do you care to try and explain the "crank" accusation:?

When was it "imposed" on us before 1922?

whenever

If you want to see a good example of idiotic monolingual design have a look at the Dublin Bus online timetable. This shocking document lists each route using street names and places in Irish only. There appears to be a coven of some sort in the publicly funded transport services who think their brief includes some form of indoctrination. No wonder Dublin Bus is in such dire financial straits.

L1011

Darren J. Prior wrote: »

I am talking about everyone who speaks and loves Irish not only the people to whom Irish is their first language.

Which is still a tiny fraction of the number of people in the country.

Darren J. Prior wrote: »

It makes no sense to you because you feel no connection to our Gaeltacht/Gaeilge culture, history and heritage.

Seeing as I'm *from* a Gaeltacht, it'd be rather hard to feel no connection to one.

It is not essential to keep the Irish language on life support to retain our culture, history and heritage - they will be there regardless. Similarly, it is not required that road signs are emblazoned with information that absolutely nobody requires.

You have to learn to accept that there are people - who are just as Irish as you are - who disagree with you on this. They are not "unpatriotic" and they most certainly are not "cranks"

DJP

MYOB wrote: »

.



Seeing as I'm *from* a Gaeltacht, it'd be rather hard to feel no connection to one.

To one what?

L1011

Darren J. Prior wrote: »

To one what?

To a Gaeltacht.

That sentence was perfectly normally constructed, so I don't see why you're having problems parsing it.

DJP

I said you feel no connection to our Gaeltacht/Gaeilge culture, history and heritage. Seemingly to me anyway. That you are from a Gaeltacht area explains a lot though. Do you care to tell us what Gaeltacht area you are from?

Motorist

Did Clondalkin get it's Gaeltacht status and all the grants that come with that. What ridiculous nonsense that goes on in this country.

http://www.thejournal.ie/clondalkin-could-be-dublins-first-official-gaeltacht-350427-Feb2012/

L1011

Darren J. Prior wrote: »

I said you feel no connection to our Gaeltacht/Gaeilge culture, history and heritage. Seemingly to me anyway. That you are from a Gaeltacht area explains a lot though. Do you care to tell us what Gaeltacht area you are from?

Donegal.

Where about 1/4 of the community actually speak Irish - well, sometimes - and the rest speak it when they think you're a grant man or the students are around. Business is conducted entirely in English, even amongst locals.

Go there in the depths of winter and you won't find a word of it being spoken amongst the 3/4.

I'm very much connected to the culture, and its neither reliant on Irish or going to go away if the language does, eventually, die.

DJP

Ahhh, a breac-Gaeltacht area. Probably Gleann Cholm Cille. In fíor-Gaeltacht areas like most of South Connemara, North-West Donegal and West of Dingle a majority of the population speak Irish every day.

The vast majority of our English language placenames in Ireland are anglicizations of the original Irish language name. Are you aware of this?

SeanW

Re: Darren J. Prior: Welcome to the Infrastructure forum, I understand you've never posted here before this for any other reason.

MYOB wrote: »

Now, do you care to try and explain the "crank" accusation:?

I had a quick gander at Darren's posting history and it seems that anyone who disagrees with him is a "crank." Aparently.

L1011

Darren J. Prior wrote: »

Ahhh, a breac-Gaeltacht area. Probably Gleann Cholm Cille. In fíor-Gaeltacht areas like most of South Connemara, North-West Donegal and West of Dingle a majority of the population speak Irish every day.

Nope. Extremely North-West Donegal.

You'd be surprised how utterly false the "true" Gaeltachts are if you go beyond the touristy pubs and language colleges.

Darren J. Prior wrote: »

The vast majority of our English language placenames in Ireland are anglicizations of the original Irish language name. Are you aware of this?

Yes. And?

Some of them are anglicisations of Danish (Leixlip, for instance), should we have Danish on the signs for those?

dubhthach

Mod
Folks if you want to have a debate about the status of Irish language take it to the Politics forum. Otherwise I'm going to have to lock the thread.

DJP

MYOB wrote: »

Nope. Extremely North-West Donegal.

You'd be surprised how utterly false the "true" Gaeltachts are if you go beyond the touristy pubs and language colleges.

You still haven't told us what Gaeltacht you are from. Is it Dobhair?

MYOB wrote: »

Yes. And?

Some of them are anglicisations of Danish (Leixlip, for instance), should we have Danish on the signs for those?

The vast majority of them are anglacizations of Irish language names. I am open to the argument that in places where the English or another languages' name is the earliest we have a record of that there should be no Irish language translatation but your "Yes. And?" comment says a lot about yourself. Then again you are a keyboard warrior.

cantalach

Anyone remember the scene in Pulp Fiction where the Latina taxi driver asks the boxer what his name 'Butch' means? He replies, "this is America, honey - our names don't mean sh1t!"

It might be stretching it a bit to say that the Anglicised place names are meaningless. But certainly, without the original Irish on the road signs, there can be a huge loss in fidelity that can make some meanings very difficult to penetrate, even for those of us with relatively good Irish.

One quick example... The 'clon' at the start of 'Clonmel' comes from cluain (= meadow). But the 'clona' at the start of 'Clonakilty' come from cloch na (= stone of the). In the absence of the original Irish form on the signs, this important distinction is completely lost.

I'm not a language fascist by any means. I dream in English. But I think that any reasonable person would find it hard to argue that meaning getting lost in translation is anything other than an erosion of our heritage.

dubhthach

-Mod-

Thread locked -- it's gone off topic which was specifically about the design of the signs.

If ye want to have a debate about etymology take it to Gaeilge or "Linguistics & Etymology" forums. If you want to have a debate about the history of placenames or the decline of the Irish language (Meath na Gaeilge) take it to History forum. Likewise a debate on the continunal status as 1st national language is more relevant to Politics forum