Bilingual Road Signs in Ireland

gbee

ardmacha wrote: »

As you so anti Irish, why not change your username to JohnW?

I don't think it's anti Irish. It's a safety issue and I'm sure it would fail if subjected to a rigorous Health & Safety scrutiny.

Quaint Irish names belong in the handbook and visitor guides, and maybe local signs, not on the fast moving main thoroughfares and busy and conplex enough already, junctions.

gbee

gbee wrote: »

Quaint Irish names belong in the handbook and visitor guides, and maybe local signs, not on the fast moving main thoroughfares and busy and conplex enough already, junctions.

It does if you consider Irish to be your principal language, whether or not you (are able to) use it frequently is another matter.

Personally I don't but others do.

SeanW

ardmacha wrote: »

I think Italian people are proud of their connection with Latin.

Perhaps, but they don't ram it down their childrens throats at school and they don't put it on their road signs. I also seriously doubt that there's a powerful Latin lobby constantly whining and making demands like there is on this thread.

As you so anti Irish, why not change your username to JohnW?

This may come as a surprise to you, but I have little no ideological grievance with the language itself, no more than any other language I don't speak, but rather the mentality of its promoters.

When I see a road sign, I want it to help me get where I am going, nothing more and nothing less. Please feel free to explain to me how these signs are going to help me get to Fermoy or Ardee easier than the current signs?

L1011

etchyed wrote: »

Well, maybe I shouldn't have put the "good" in there. But since you asked, what do you think of the overall point?

I don't see any justification for retaining Irish on roadsigns outside the Gaeltacht and I don't see any justification for removing English within the Gaeltacht.

etchyed

MYOB wrote: »

I don't see any justification for retaining Irish on roadsigns outside the Gaeltacht and I don't see any justification for removing English within the Gaeltacht.

I meant the overall point about acknowledging the opinions of others as a useful thing to do. Unsurprisingly you don't seem to have understood it.

L1011

etchyed wrote: »

I meant the overall point about acknowledging the opinions of others as a useful thing to do. Unsurprisingly you don't seem to have understood it.

You're the one who seems to think that acknowledging someone's opinion means you need to agree with them.

I acknowledge their opinion - and I disagree entirely with it.

DJP

SeanW wrote: »

When I see a road sign, I want it to help me get where I am going, nothing more and nothing less. Please feel free to explain to me how these signs are going to help me get to Fermoy or Ardee easier than the current signs?

Your signs wouldn't be used, fortunately.

etchyed

MYOB wrote: »

You're the one who seems to think that acknowledging someone's opinion means you need to agree with them.

I'll drop this after this post, but in fact I said entirely the opposite. Given your particular style of posting, MYOB, I never expected you to fully comprehend what I was getting at, but you really have missed the point spectacularly.

L1011

etchyed wrote: »

Given your particular style of posting, MYOB, I never expected you to fully comprehend what I was getting at, but you really have missed the point spectacularly.

Care to explain what you mean by that?

DJP

MYOB wrote: »

Care to explain what you mean by that?

MYOB wrote: »

I don't see any justification for retaining Irish on roadsigns outside the Gaeltacht and I don't see any justification for removing English within the Gaeltacht.

The Government; Irish speakers and the majority of the population in the State want to increase the number of Irish speakers- officially to 250,000 by 2030. Do you see any justification in what the majority want on this?

L1011

Darren J. Prior wrote: »

The Government; Irish speakers and the majority of the population in the State want to increase the number of Irish speakers- officially to 250,000 by 2030. Do you see any justification in what the majority want on this?

Can you provide any proof that the majority of the population in the State want that? Because that's the first time I've ever heard someone claim that.

If there are 250,000 primary Irish speakers in the State at any point in time ever again I'd be astounded.

DJP

MYOB wrote: »

Can you provide any proof that the majority of the population in the State want that? Because that's the first time I've ever heard someone claim that.

If there are 250,000 primary Irish speakers in the State at any point in time ever again I'd be astounded.

The 20 Year Strategy for the Irish Language is a Government Strategy and now and throughout its formulation has cross-party support. Only cranks don't like seeing Irish supported and promoted.

L1011

Darren J. Prior wrote: »

The 20 Year Strategy for the Irish Language is a Government Strategy and now and throughout its formulation has cross-party support.

And how does that show that the majority of the population supports it?

Darren J. Prior wrote: »

Only cranks don't like seeing Irish supported and promoted.

Failing to this level of argument after two posts really shows the lack of depth of your case.

SeanW

Darren J. Prior wrote: »

Your signs wouldn't be used, fortunately.

How? The precedents laid down by the Official Languages Act wouldn't allow much else.

DJP

MYOB wrote: »

And how does that show that the majority of the population supports it?

Because our TD's are directly elected by the people.

Motorist

It's laughable to think ramming Irish down peoples throats with ridiculous token measures such as Lána Bus, Lána Tram has any effect on the uptake or interest in the language. The signs should solely be in English to allow bigger writing.

The census figures of people with cupla focal who claim to be fluent in it are wildly inaccurate.

L1011

Darren J. Prior wrote: »

Because our TD's are directly elected by the people.

Argument does not follow.

People do not ever agree with 100% of the policies of who they elect. This time more than any, seeing as the current government majority is caused by them not being FF.

SeanW

Motorist wrote: »

It's laughable to think ramming Irish down peoples throats with ridiculous token measures such as Lána Bus, Lána Tram has any effect on the uptake or interest in the language. The signs should solely be in English to allow bigger writing.

The census figures of people with cupla focal who claim to be fluent in it are wildly inaccurate.

I suspect that all the "support" for the Irish language is much like the 84% of people who claimed to be catholic, despite gambling, not keeping Lent, having multiple relationships before marriage, abortions, divorces, never going to Mass etc.

DJP

MYOB wrote: »

Argument does not follow.

People do not ever agree with 100% of the policies of who they elect. This time more than any, seeing as the current government majority is caused by them not being FF.

Your argument does not follow clearly.

Of course TD's voters do not always agree with everything the TD (s) are in favour of. However the main criticism with the Official Languages Act OLA has been in relation to the translation of annual reports and County Development Plans into Irish. Nobody is standing over, or generally making, any criticism in relation to the Act and signage.

L1011

Darren J. Prior wrote: »

Your argument does not follow clearly.

Of course TD's voters do not always agree with everything the TD (s) are in favour of. However the main criticism with the Official Languages Act OLA has been in relation to the translation of annual reports and County Development Plans into Irish. Nobody is standing over, or generally making, any criticism in relation to the Act and signage.

I have no idea what this tangent you're going off on is about.

You made a claim that the majority of people in the State want to increase the number of Irish speakers and you haven't managed to provide a shred of evidence for the claim. Are you going to provide evidence?

DJP

MYOB wrote: »

I have no idea what this tangent you're going off on is about.

You made a claim that the majority of people in the State want to increase the number of Irish speakers and you haven't managed to provide a shred of evidence for the claim. Are you going to provide evidence?

The majority of people as represented politically by our Government and national TD's do. Unpatriotic people have scant representation in the Dáil.

L1011

Darren J. Prior wrote: »

The majority of people as represented politically by our Government and national TD's do. Unpatriotic people have scant representation in the Dáil.

As I've said, your argument does not follow through at all. You have no evidence for your claim.

Claiming that people who do not agree with you are "cranks" and "unpatriotic" isn't a particularly valid debating tactic, unless you're a Republican commentator in the US...

DJP

MYOB wrote: »

Claiming that people who do not agree with you are "cranks" and "unpatriotic" isn't a particularly valid debating tactic, unless you're a Republican commentator in the US...

I didn't. I was referring to yourself and anyone else who agrees with statements like this:

MYOB wrote: »

I don't see any justification for retaining Irish on roadsigns outside the Gaeltacht and I don't see any justification for removing English within the Gaeltacht.

L1011

Darren J. Prior wrote: »

I didn't. I was referring to yourself and anyone else who agrees with statements like this:

Care to explain how my comment shows me to be a "crank" or "unpatriotic", then?

DJP

MYOB wrote: »

Care to explain how my comment shows me to be a "crank" or "unpatriotic", then?

I'll let you dwell on what you said! I have! Oíche mhaith!

L1011

Darren J. Prior wrote: »

I'll let you dwell on what you said! I have! Oíche mhaith!

Once again, I have no idea what you're trying to say.

DJP

I think you should try to get your head around what etchyed was saying to you a couple of pages back.

L1011

Darren J. Prior wrote: »

I think you should try to get your head around what etchyed was saying to you a couple of pages back.

I have.

You, however, don't seem to even know what you're trying to say to me at this stage.

Nor have you even attempted to justify your allegations against me.

DJP

Well, then, here I go.

MYOB wrote: »

I don't see any justification for retaining Irish on roadsigns outside the Gaeltacht and I don't see any justification for removing English within the Gaeltacht.

So you don't think that the will of Irish speakers who love the Irish language whose aims as represented by public Irish speaking politicians and officials, Irish language promotional organisations, youth groups both in the Gaeltacht and in some other parts and Co-Op's and which is supported by Government is not justification for our wish for the Irish language to be represented on our road signage throughout the country? Your ideas on patriotism and the Irish language are very different to mine.

L1011

Darren J. Prior wrote: »

So you don't think that the will of Irish speakers who love the Irish language whose aims as represented by public Irish speaking politicians and officials, Irish language promotional organisations, youth groups both in the Gaeltacht and in some other parts and Co-Op's and which is supported by Government is not justification for our wish for the Irish language to be represented on our road signage throughout the country? Your ideas on patriotism and the Irish language are very different to mine.

No, I don't think that is justification. A tiny fraction of the population speak Irish as their primary language - to the point that it is not the second most used language anymore - and peoples "love" for a language does not justify the huge costs of pandering to them.

Using it in Gaeltachts is all well and good, but using it outside makes absolutely no sense.

Patriotism does not hinge on whether you feel a connection to a language which was re-imposed on us after the foundation of the State.

Now, do you care to try and explain the "crank" accusation:?