Advice about 27th November Protest

columok

After reading Fintan O'Toole's recent article in the Irish Times I'm strongly considering attending the protest on Saturday at Wood Quay. I wanted to ask people's opinions/advice on this bearing in mind the following.

I'm a libertarian and don't have a huge amount of time for the ICTU or a lot of the interest groups potentially involved with Saturday's assembly. However I fundamentally disagree with the notion of socialising private debt and reckon this might be a last chance for things to turn around before this is locked down fully. I'm wondering what difference my presence (or anyone's for that matter) will make given that the current government seem to be locked into a particular course of action.

Essentially without some kind of strike or meaningful action what does attending such a march accomplish other than placating ourselves into thinking we're actually doing something? I don't like the idea of giving the ICTU my sanction without it being for a good cause. I am however sick of doing nothing and want to act- hence my dilemma.

Dotsie~tmp

Go, bring a sheet of A4 paper. Write on it.

Not for unions
Not for private banks
Im here for Ireland

Ray Burkes Pension

A load of angry people are gonna march who have nothing to do the ICTU.

The ICTU will no doubt claim to represent them all. They already calling themselves the "people's voice".

The reality is the ICTU helped us get in this mess in the first place.

vasch_ro

I would like to go not for ICTU, but for Ireland, I am afraid of violence and extremism hi jacking the event

Buford T Justice

I'm avoiding it because i don't want to be associated with ICTU or any of the unions out there.

HxGH

Blood-baths aren't really my thing.

I'm only ickle anyway. Next year. I promise.

GarlicBread

@OP

I was at a mass ICTU demo in cork last year. Its nothing like what the media and people on here are saying about it.

A march, a few speeches, some cheering and fun for all the family. Dont listen to all the langers moaning about it. Theres a huge campaign by the media + government to undermine it, dont let them do it, turn up.

flynnlives

Hi,

im not in a union but am marching against this disgrace of a gov.
Here is the placard im going to use.
feel free to print off and use yourself.

Darlughda

Well, I am definitely going. As an individual. On my own.

All through the Celtic Tiger Boom years, I was disgusted at the madness that went on, and the opportunities lost by the government to make improvements in this country while they had the chance.

Now, I am going to march because this debt belongs to the bankers, greedy developers and those who seem to think they are unaccountable because they have the two Brian's in their pocket.

No way should their debt be our sovereign debt.

No way should we accept the crippling interests rates of this bailout that we have no idea of what the consequences will really be.

No way should the poorest and most vulnerable in society be made to suffer the lion's share of the gross excesses that they did not cause.

I was initially reluctant to protest as I don't agree with the public service unions, Sinn Féin, Éirigí and the usual suspects, but feck them all, I am furious about what is happening, so I will be there.

Now all I need to do is design a BIG placard that says and illustrates in as little words as possible what I have said above.

wylo

OP Im the exact same as you, no time ICTU, but it seems like the one day where everyone is getting together to protest so if theres a day to help make your voice heard itll be that day.
You also talk about how we'll be just thinking were actually doing something but not really. Well my point to you is, that you'll be doing far less by not going. Even if it simply satisfies the feeling that its not on your conscience that you did nothing at all yet still moaned to your mates about it.

I do understand your dilemma but Id just bring a placard that states your not there for ICTU.

thebaldsoprano

OP I'm in a similar boat. I'm not a libertarian, but have little time for ICTU & Co. I'm looking at it as a chance to make my voice heard about the current state of affairs, and to give a warning to the next crowd that they'd better pull their socks up. The best party for anyone looking for a business/jobs friendly environment is FG and they voted for the bank guarantee scheme - that says a lot about the political establishment and just turning up at the polling station on election day won't be enough to change things.

BehindTheScenes

Dotsie~tmp wrote: »

Go, bring a sheet of A4 paper. Write on it.

Not for unions
Not for private banks
Im here for Ireland

I'll be using that, thanks. Will make sure to credit ya;).

I can't stand the unions, I'm going for my country. We need to stand up to what is happening.

expectationlost

columok wrote: »

After reading Fintan O'Toole's recent article in the Irish Times I'm strongly considering attending the protest on Saturday at Wood Quay. I wanted to ask people's opinions/advice on this bearing in mind the following.

I'm a libertarian and don't have a huge amount of time for the ICTU or a lot of the interest groups potentially involved with Saturday's assembly. However I fundamentally disagree with the notion of socialising private debt and reckon this might be a last chance for things to turn around before this is locked down fully. I'm wondering what difference my presence (or anyone's for that matter) will make given that the current government seem to be locked into a particular course of action.

Essentially without some kind of strike or meaningful action what does attending such a march accomplish other than placating ourselves into thinking we're actually doing something? I don't like the idea of giving the ICTU my sanction without it being for a good cause. I am however sick of doing nothing and want to act- hence my dilemma.

nobody else is an excuse for you not to protest on saturday

imme

OP, the march isn't for ICTU, it's against the current situation.

I have marched twice in the past. Once against war in Iraq and once for PS workers. Wasn't a union member for second one so just walked along at the back.

There was a mix of all sorts on the march, unionised bank workers showing solidarity, along with Eirigi, students etc etc. a real melange.

It feels weird at first because you're walking along the street, sometimes with people looking at you, but you get used to it, because you're marching for a reason.


March if you want to protest, don't if you don't want to.;)

Drumpot

Is it possible for anybody to speak on a podium to the crowd ?

imme

Drumpot wrote: »

Is it possible for anybody to speak on a podium to the crowd ?

'I have to bury Caesar, not praise him....'

highly unlikely I'd have thought, wouldn't you?

speeches were long over by the time I reached the endline on both protests I marched in, the crowds were that big.

Newaglish

flynnlives wrote: »

Hi,

im not in a union but am marching against this disgrace of a gov.
Here is the placard im going to use.
feel free to print off and use yourself.

You mis-spelled tratiors

Mahatma coat

Saw this in DeMotovationals in CVP&L



If I could Go on Saturday thats the Poster I'd carry

Sig Updated as a Token Gesture,

patjunfa

Are people going or what are peoples thoughts about it? I don't usually travel for these things but this seems like such a defining moment in history where we''re being so shafted I feel the need to be counted against it all. The news calls it a march against the goverments austerity measures, I wouldn't travel and protest for that alone. Taking on further unsustainable levals of unwarented debt is too much to take lying down. There are people who suggest alternatives, such as defaulting, returning to our own debt free curency etc. I'm not an economist and I know there aren't any easy answers through this, but it seems to me there may be windows of oportunity to make this less dificult than it might be, such as accepting a bailout and all the ecb/imf suggests

http://thetruthisnow.com/uncategorized/march-from-wood-quay-dublin-to-the-gpo-at-11am-saturday-27th/

dan_d

I think people have the right to protest...if nothing else it will show the Government that people aren't happy. Doesn't have to be about the austerity measures - could also be about the fact that Sean Fitz and co are still swanning around...
I hope the march isn't hijacked, I think people should have the right to march peacefully if they want.

Pines

dan_d wrote: »

Doesn't have to be about the austerity measures - could also be about the fact that Sean Fitz and co are still swanning around...

... or about the fact that David Begg, Jack O'Connor and the other champions of benchmarking awards in return for zero extra efficiency, not to mention jobs on state boards for all of the boys, are still swanning around. Maybe they are going to remind us tomorrow why it's such a good idea that we're spending 20bn more than we take in?

There's no way I can see of turning up at the march without my presence being seen as support for the union movement (and it will undoubtedly be claimed as such by them).

Darlughda

Pines wrote: »

There's no way I can see of turning up at the march without my presence being seen as support for the union movement (and it will undoubtedly be claimed as such by them).

Unfortunately, a great many people feel this way. Now, I have stated repeatedly why I am going to march tomorrow, despite having no truck with union fatcats, across Boards so I won't bother re-iterating.

Do you know that many other groups and individuals will be there tomorrow with the same sentiments as you and I?

Would it make a difference if you could walk with a banner saying NO SUPPORT FOR UNION BOSSESetc?

Bob_Latchford

dan_d wrote: »

I think people have the right to protest...if nothing else it will show the Government that people aren't happy. Doesn't have to be about the austerity measures - could also be about the fact that Sean Fitz and co are still swanning around...
I hope the march isn't hijacked, I think people should have the right to march peacefully if they want.

Going down just to be there. If its a defining moment in Irish history I want to have a look.

got to be better than football focus anyway

stone roses

i will be tere a lot of people i know will be tere and we will make a difference this is only the start!!

what we have to understand is its all a game!! the power of suggestion, install fear into the masses, people with money have no interest in the march people of honour and dignity and who have not sold tere sole for profit will be tere , real people people who care, dont be fooled buy the few listen to the many!!

will will have our say and so we should!!!!

MagicMarker

There's no doubt in my mind that there will be violence tomorrow.

There's also no doubt in my mind that even if half the country turn up, it won't make a blind bit of difference.

What time do they plan to be at the GPO? Dunno where the starting point is so I don't kno whow long they'll be walking.

I've been meaning to head along to one of these to get some photomographs so I might do it tomorrow.

Bob_Latchford

Deleted User wrote: »

What time do they plan to be at the GPO? Dunno where the starting point is so I don't kno whow long they'll be walking.

I've been meaning to head along to one of these to get some photomographs so I might do it tomorrow.

Its only a short stroll from the south quays to GPO.

http://www.ictu.ie/november27/routemap.html

Cheers Bob.

How are these things timewise? If I get a Matthews coach, which will drop me on parnell street/O'connell street at about 10.30am, would I have plenty of time before anyone appears near the GPO, or would it be likely that it'd all kick off earlier or later than 11am?

Bob_Latchford

says 11 to 12. dont know anymore. Just going to wander down sometime in the morning and see what things look like

Ah sure I'll take a look. Cheers Bob.

cc-offe

edited: double post

thebaldsoprano

Darlughda wrote: »

Unfortunately, a great many people feel this way. Now, I have stated repeatedly why I am going to march tomorrow, despite having no truck with union fatcats, across Boards so I won't bother re-iterating.

Do you know that many other groups and individuals will be there tomorrow with the same sentiments as you and I?

Would it make a difference if you could walk with a banner saying NO SUPPORT FOR UNION BOSSESetc?

I was pleasantly surprised by the ICTU posters for the march around town. Previous posters would have you believe that they somehow had a claim on ideas such as 'fairness' etc. Their logo isn't as prominent on the latest ones though, it's barely noticeable. A march isn't going to organise itself, and a union is an obvious candidate to do this. I'm putting my differences aside for the day and seeing what happens - if they want private sector workers to support future marches they'll need to give it as broad an appeal as possible.

electrogrimey

Yeah, I'm not reading hugely into the union side of this. To be legal, a large scale march pretty much has to be tied to a big group like a union, so they can get Garda permission. I'm gonna turn out, not for the unions, but as a show of dissatisfaction against the government, which I'm guessing/hoping most people will be doing.

alang184

I'll be there.

And I hope more than 60,000 (Garda estimate) will be there.

Rebelheart

Bob_Latchford wrote: »

says 11 to 12. dont know anymore. Just going to wander down sometime in the morning and see what things look like

It says 12 - "Assemble 12 noon, on November 27th at Wood Quay Dublin" - on the link you just gave us here:

http://www.ictu.ie/november27/routemap.html

Anybody know what is the correct start time?

cc-offe

For the people who are going to the dáil what time do you think it will go on until? I planned to be there for 11 ish, it's snowing now so might not be able to make it up for that time but would like to go up at whatever time I can

Gillo

I'll be working so can't go, however if I was off I'd have hired a fleet of hotdog stalls and lined the route, ride the recession out in style!!

That'd be clever, Gillo. You'd make a fortune, too (though aren't there McDonald's and Burger Kings beside the GPO?).


Right... so is this fecking thing at 11 or 12? I've been hearing 11 for ages, now everywhere is saying 12. I don't want to arrive on a 10.30 bus to stand around for an hour and a half if i can just as easily get in for 11.30...

Rebelheart

Just back from the march. The organisers said there was 150,000 at it. RTÉ says 'up to 50,000'. RTÉ is definitely underestimating it. More like 100,000 people, which is a great number given the snow and cold. We needed more music and singing where I was (near the end). Next time I'm going to bring my bodhrán. It would have made the world of difference to the craic where I was. Also, I'm going to prepare banners in Irish and German and Irish and French for the next one. Definitely not enough banners.

Fintan O'Toole was in statesmanship mode today. I was very surprised to see him as the main speaker and MC outside the GPO. When it comes on on YouTube definitely listen to him.

"Working people don't mind making sacrifices - they mind being the sacrifice"
- Fintan O'Toole, 27 November 2010

cc-offe

The guardian said 100,000, will there be any protests tomorrow anywhere?

Joey the lips

Rebelheart wrote: »

Just back from the march. The organisers said there was 150,000 at it. RTÉ says 'up to 50,000'. RTÉ is definitely underestimating it. More like 100,000 people, which is a great number given the snow and cold. We needed more music and singing where I was (near the end). Next time I'm going to bring my bodhrán. It would have made the world of difference to the craic where I was. Also, I'm going to prepare banners in Irish and German and Irish and French for the next one. Definitely not enough banners.

Fintan O'Toole was in statesmanship mode today. I was very surprised to see him as the main speaker and MC outside the GPO. When it comes on on YouTube definitely listen to him.

"Working people don't mind making sacrifices - they mind being the sacrifice"
- Fintan O'Toole, 27 November 2010

Wonder where the bold fintan got that from...Its good. Very good...Kinda sums it all up

dan_d

Heard clips of Fintan O Toole talking on the radio (I was otherwise engaged this morning). Not normally a fan, but I thought he sounded good - thought it made a nice change to have someone who can string a proper sentence together rather than the usual union bosses roaring into the microphone about whatever their particular agenda is. For once, I was proud of the people of Ireland.I really don't think that people believe that everyone at that march was there on behalf of ICTU....I think most people realise that this is much bigger than unions.

Fair play to everyone who went in. A few more of these marches wouldn't go amiss.

LittleBook

dan_d wrote: »

I really don't think that people believe that everyone at that march was there on behalf of ICTU

I hope not, because it certainly wasn't the case for us. We marched, listened to Fintan O'Toole's speech, Ruth McCabe read the Easter Proclamation and then we left. I've read on other boards that the subsequent union speakers were booed and heckled.

Unfortunately only the unions have the will and wherewithal to organise a demonstration of this size and the fact that they've let us down as much as the other "leaders" wasn't reason enough for us to stay away from what will probably be the only mass demonstration of its kind.

I'm not embarrassed for Ireland that we find ourselves in this situation, for me the blame lies with a small group of the "elite" as Fintan said. But I'd have been mortified if today's demonstration hadn't been so well attended.

thebaldsoprano

Fingers McGee wrote: »

I'm avoiding it because i don't want to be associated with ICTU or any of the unions out there.

Well, you missed the ICTU speaker getting booed off stage

There were plenty of unions there, but I didn't feel put out by not being a fan of them. I just waited for them to pass and joined the march when I saw a few 'privately' made plackards.

Elevator

such a proud day for us all and not everyone showed up for the unions!!

I totally agree that it takes the likes of them to organise this **** and organise they did today!! not one bit of trouble as far as I know

never been to a protest b4 and glad I went today cos as many said along the way "were you there on nov 27th?? no, well then shut your hole!!"

any feicing excuse would have done me this morning for not getting out of me nice cozy bed with the missus to cuddle into but I just had to get up to Dublin today above all days or I'd be ashamed of myself!!

to everyone who showed up today, you all have 100% of my respect

ps. getting to sing along with Christy Moore to ordinary man was pure class!! )

Jim

My pics from today : http://pix.ie/jimeatsmenu/album/394970

Pics of the protest from boardsie will appear here : http://boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056102596 (please note no political discussion allowed in the thread)

Elevator

also, if anyone's watching tv3 news at 5.30 I'm the guy holding the save jobs sign behind O Toole as he's being interviewed after!!

my 5 seconds of fame eh

wylo

Delighted I went, I was jawdropped by the sheer numbers, felt like half of Ireland had showed up near the start as I watched the march while waiting for a friend.

Fair play to everyone that went, great to be surrounded by so many people that genuinely cared, and great to see so many people get away from their keyboards.