Flatmate wants to smoke indoors

Malice

I'm just looking for some advice on this. Basically I recently moved into a place where I signed a lease that stipulated no smoking. As a non-smoker myself that was perfectly fine. Fast forward to the current cold weather and my flatmate has announced that they want to start smoking in the shared living room. I'm totally against this and have said so but I feel it's going to become an issue between us. Currently they smoke on a balcony attached to the living room but they often leave the door open if they are watching television which means the smoke blows back into the house anyway rendering the whole exercise a bit pointless in my eyes .

I should point out that the flatmate has been living in this place for a few years and is good friends with the landlord so regardless of what the signed lease says, I've a feeling the landlord would take their side over mine. If it came down to it I'd be quite happy to move out as I'd rather not share with someone who's either pissed off with me for not letting them smoke indoors or someone who actually is smoking indoors. The problem is I've a year long lease signed. I suppose my question is then, if my flatmate insists on smoking indoors and the landlord doesn't do anything about it, can I terminate the lease on health and safety grounds?

MRBEAVER

No. People are legally entitled to smoke in their homes. Smoking ban covers workplaces. If you live with someone ability to compromise is essential. If your flatmate does not respect your wishes and it is a big issue for you then perhaps you should move out. Landlord should understand that you have an issue with your flatmate that means you cam mo longer stay there.

pat1981

You signed a lease that stipulated no smoking. Quote Basically I recently moved into a place where I signed a lease that stipulated no smoking.
In my view if the landlord accepts that this is not the case then your landlord has broken the lease and that would be grounds for you to cancel your lease.
Why do you think the landlord will be so accomadating to a smoker smoking in their apartment when they have put this clause in.
If you stay quiet you could end up with a bill for repainting their apartment,cleaning sofa,curtains etc at the end of your lease,just my 50 cents.

Malice

MRBEAVER wrote: »

No. People are legally entitled to smoke in their homes. Smoking ban covers workplaces.

This isn't about the smoking ban at all though. There is a clause in my lease saying "No smoking in the house". Either that is enforced or it's not. If it's not enforced then I will be looking for somewhere else to live immediately as I would not have moved in had smoking been permitted.

MRBEAVER wrote:

If you live with someone ability to compromise is essential.

Agreed and I was half-expecting this to happen to be honest.

pat1981 wrote: »

In my view if the landlord accepts that this is not the case then your landlord has broken the lease and that would be grounds for you to cancel your lease.

I suppose the difficulty will be in getting them to accept it .

pat1981 wrote:

Why do you think the landlord will be so accomadating to a smoker smoking in their apartment when they have put this clause in.

Just because the other tenant has been there far longer than me and is good friends with the landlord. I'd imagine if it came down to an ultimatum, me or the flatmate, I'd be the one being asked to leave. The landlord doesn't know me apart from the fact that I'm not from the area and if my job were to disappear, I'd have nothing to stay in the area for.

pat1981 wrote:

If you stay quiet you could end up with a bill for repainting their apartment,cleaning sofa,curtains etc at the end of your lease.

Well I'm not staying quiet on it. If the flatmate starts smoking indoors then the landlord will be called and I'll see what he has to say for himself.

djimi

MRBEAVER wrote: »

No. People are legally entitled to smoke in their homes. Smoking ban covers workplaces. If you live with someone ability to compromise is essential. If your flatmate does not respect your wishes and it is a big issue for you then perhaps you should move out. Landlord should understand that you have an issue with your flatmate that means you cam mo longer stay there.

Theres a big difference between compromise between flatmates and being able to live in an environment that is detrimental to your health. As a non-smoker I can honestly say there is nothing more disgusting than being in the company of someone who is smoking. If I signed a lease that said the house is non-smoking only for my sitting room to turn into a chimney every evening then Id be gone in the morning, no hesitation.

The lease stipulates non-smoking; if the landlord does not want to enforce this then they signed the lease under false pretenses and the OP should be entitled to leave without consequence.

Idbatterim

what about the smoker wouldnt smoke in the shared living room if you were using the room? There is no way I would pay rent and tolerate someone smoking in the same room.

Thinspired

The terms and conditions in a lease are designed to work both ways - if a tenant breaches them the landlord can terminate the lease and vice versa. If the contract specifically said it was non-smoking accommodation then you are legally entitled to smoke-free accommodation.
Sure the landlord might kick up a fuss but they haven't a foot to stand on. They guaranteed you a smoke-free home and if you don't get it then you are entitled to get your deposit back. If there's trouble contact Threshold/PRTB.

Speaking from bitter personal experience, even if a smoker starts out by smoking outside 'for the sake of the other tenants' (they think they're being a martyr by doing this) soon enough it'll become standing in the patio doorway... then sitting down inside with the patio door open.
If you're not actually at home at the time of course they'll smoke indoors ('sure she'll never notice the smell'). It's in our nature to try and get away with as much as we can, after all:)
It happened to me before and although I stuck out the lease I swore I'd never again live with a smoker.

The other thing is you'll become used to the faint smell of smoke in the apartment (smokers will never notice it) and when you go to move out, your duvet, clothes, sheets, towels etc will all stink! I only realised when I moved out and my mum insisted on washing every stitch I owned before I moved into the new place. When I went back a week later to return the keys etc I couldn't believe the stale smoky smell in the place. Also I couldn't believe how quickly my persistent cough cleared up after I left!

Last but not least - if the tenant is such good pals with the landlord, why didn't the landlord take out the no-smoking clause in the first place? Not that it's your problem, of course. Just seems silly from their point of view.

petethebrick

Your flatmate is throwing his weight about and being unreasonable I reckon.
I myself smoke but only ever smoke in the living room of our shared house the odd weekend when friends over for drinks etc. Otherwise I smoke in my room or at the front door more usually. None of my three housemates smoke but they didn't even have to ask me not to, its just common politeness in this day and age I think.

D3PO

Malice_ wrote: »

I've a feeling the landlord would take their side over mine.

if my flatmate insists on smoking indoors and the landlord doesn't do anything about it, can I terminate the lease on health and safety grounds?

Why would the landlord take their side ? If the lease says no smoking then the landlord doesnt want anybody smoking.

Whats more if your flatmate does so theres every chance the landlord will retain your deposits due to damage caused by the smoke, discolouration of walls, burns, cleaning to remove the smell from curtains etc.

Id be 99.9% of the opinion your landlord will tell your flatmate that it wouldnt be tolerated.

as for can you terminate the lease if he takes their side ? I suggest you could but you should talk to threshold and the prtb about it.

Malice

Idbatterim wrote: »

what about the smoker wouldnt smoke in the shared living room if you were using the room?

That wouldn't work. I would find it unacceptable if someone was smoking in the living room and I came in and wanted to prepare my dinner I'd have to open the doors and windows to air the room out which is not particularly pleasant at this time of year. The living room and the kitchen are one room in this house.

Thinspired wrote: »

The terms and conditions in a lease are designed to work both ways - if a tenant breaches them the landlord can terminate the lease and vice versa. If the contract specifically said it was non-smoking accommodation then you are legally entitled to smoke-free accommodation.
Sure the landlord might kick up a fuss but they haven't a foot to stand on. They guaranteed you a smoke-free home and if you don't get it then you are entitled to get your deposit back. If there's trouble contact Threshold/PRTB.

That's my thinking on it as well. The underlying issue with this though is that if the landlord tells the housemate not to smoke indoors and he doesn't then there is going to be a frosty atmosphere around the place and, no doubt, when I'm not there he'll suit himself and smoke indoors. This is just going to lead to tension and stress that I don't need and shouldn't have to deal with.

Thinspired wrote:

Speaking from bitter personal experience, even if a smoker starts out by smoking outside 'for the sake of the other tenants' (they think they're being a martyr by doing this) soon enough it'll become standing in the patio doorway... then sitting down inside with the patio door open.

Yep, that's exactly what's happening. I've noticed that the tendancy lately is to open the door and hold the cigarette outside. The problem with doing that is that very little smoke actually stays outside.

I've tried to be diplomatic but when you're coming from two polar opposite viewpoints there is no middle ground unfortunately.

Thinspired wrote:

Last but not least - if the tenant is such good pals with the landlord, why didn't the landlord take out the no-smoking clause in the first place? Not that it's your problem, of course. Just seems silly from their point of view.

I agree and I don't know the answer to that question. I suppose it's a good thing from my point of view because I can hopefully use it to get the lease cancelled early, get my deposit back and work on finding somewhere more suitable to live.

the_syco

As a smoker, I prefer non-smoking houses, as once you start smoking inside, the smoke goes eveywhere. I prefer smoking outside.

=-=

I'd almost say that when talking about the non-smoking bit to the landlord, mention that one of the reasons why you moved in was that it was non-smoking. If this was to change, you'd expect to get your deposit back(?).

ABajaninCork

I totally agree with the syco. I do smoke myself, and as a smoker, I cannot stand a smoky room!

I don't think my landlord would mind if I did smoke inside the house (I've found old butts in the fireplace!), but out of consideration for my husband who does not smoke, I smoke outside, and perch the ashtray on top of the kitchen windowsill.

To the OP. If the lease stipulates no smoking, then I think your roomie is extracting the urine, and you should definitely speak to the landlord.

Is this something that can be raised with the PTSB/Threshold?

pooch90

ABajaninCork wrote: »

Is this something that can be raised with the PTSB/Threshold?

Permanent TSB? Think you mean PRTB....

ABajaninCork

pooch90 wrote: »

Permanent TSB? Think you mean PRTB....

Clearly I meant the rent people and NOT the bank, as I think most people reading my post would...:rolleyes:

Elle Collins

Could you not compromise by asking your flatmate to smoke in their own bedroom with the door closed and the window open so the smoke would not permeate the whole apt?

Ste.phen

Elle Collins wrote: »

Could you not compromise by asking your flatmate to smoke in their own bedroom with the door closed and the window open so the smoke would not permeate the whole apt?

Unless the door is airtight and never opened, this isn't going to work

Doop

The landlord isnt legally bound to provide you with a 'smoke-free environment', the landlord could easily turn around to the other flat mate and say, right no smoking in the apartment, and the flatmate continues to smoke. Aint much the landlord can do. (As you said he's not going to kick out the flatmate)

Also that clause is pretty standard in most leases. Im a smoker and would never smoke in doors cos its gross in my opinion. Just cos I smoke doesnt mean I want to be sourrounded by clouds of smoke 24/7 !

Tell him if he wants to smoke in doors to do it in his own room. Yes you'll get a slight smell of smoke in the hallway/ landing but surely thats the comprmise?
I house share with 2 others and we all smoke, 2 of us always outdoors, other one smokes in her room, which is kinda manky but its her room to do with what she likes in my opinion.

Also if you decide to move, I reckon just keep calm expain it to the landlord that you cant stand the smoke around the house, and you were under the impresion from the lease that there wouldnt be smoking in doors, and hence you expect your deposit back in full.

Malice

Elle Collins wrote: »

Could you not compromise by asking your flatmate to smoke in their own bedroom with the door closed and the window open so the smoke would not permeate the whole apt?

No. As Ste.phen says, that's not going to work. Unless there's an extractor fan or something put into the room, as soon as the door is opened the smell will be all over the house.

Doop wrote: »

The landlord isnt legally bound to provide you with a 'smoke-free environment',

Isn't that exactly what the no smoking clause in the lease is for?

Doop wrote: »

the landlord could easily turn around to the other flat mate and say, right no smoking in the apartment, and the flatmate continues to smoke. Aint much the landlord can do. (As you said he's not going to kick out the flatmate)

And that's fine. I will then discuss things with the landlord and ensure that they understand that I consider the lease broken and will expect my deposit back in full.

Doop wrote: »

Also that clause is pretty standard in most leases.

Is it? I've honestly never seen it on any lease I've seen until this one.

Doop wrote:

Tell him if he wants to smoke in doors to do it in his own room. Yes you'll get a slight smell of smoke in the hallway/ landing but surely thats the comprmise?

Well no, I was told it was a non-smoking place before I moved in and I wouldn't have moved in had I known that wasn't the case. I'm very much anti-smoking. I can deal with a certain amount of smoke coming back into the living room from the balcony when a person is standing out there but that's it.

Doop wrote:

its her room to do with what she likes in my opinion.

I agree 100% except when it directly affects me.

Doop wrote:

Also if you decide to move, I reckon just keep calm expain it to the landlord that you cant stand the smoke around the house, and you were under the impresion from the lease that there wouldnt be smoking in doors, and hence you expect your deposit back in full.

It's not so just that I can't stand it. It's that it's hazardous to my health, a fire hazard that the landlord might not be aware of and negatively affecting the fixtures and fittings.

Elle Collins

Malice_ wrote: »

No. As Ste.phen says, that's not going to work. Unless there's an extractor fan or something put into the room, as soon as the door is opened the smell will be all over the house.

God, I'd never live with a non-smoker! :eek:

Ginger Nut

pat1981 wrote: »

You signed a lease that stipulated no smoking. Quote Basically I recently moved into a place where I signed a lease that stipulated no smoking.
In my view if the landlord accepts that this is not the case then your landlord has broken the lease and that would be grounds for you to cancel your lease.
Why do you think the landlord will be so accomadating to a smoker smoking in their apartment when they have put this clause in.
If you stay quiet you could end up with a bill for repainting their apartment,cleaning sofa,curtains etc at the end of your lease,just my 50 cents.

I think you should talk to your house mates and say that you will ask the landlord to release you from the lease to enable you to find another accommodation. I would bet on the landlord saying "no smoking" for the reasons above:D

Malice

Elle Collins wrote: »

God, I'd never live with a non-smoker! :eek:

I'm not sure why you're highlighting my post. Do you not agree that the smell will easily end up all over the house?

drBill

As a rent paying tenant, you are entitled to a smoke free home as was signed by both of you in the lease.

It is completely unreasonable of your flatmate to want to smoke inside. If it was something which did not affect anybody else, then yes it would be fair to expect you to reach some sort of compromise around the letter of the law. But this is not the case with smoking. Smoking anywhere in the house will result in the carpets and curtains getting smelly, cigarette butts and ashes cluttering up the surroundings, your health being impacted, etc.

Stick by your guns. You, your flatmate and your landlord entered into a legally binding agreement for your house to be smoke free, everybody knew and agreed to this up front. It's them, not you who are trying to break the terms of the lease, so it is not you who should be inconvenienced.

Idbatterim

I cant see how it can work out, unless smokers have the deceny to smoke outside, if sharing with non smokers, or the non smoker doesnt mind the stink (unlikely)!