Is there any plans to save the country

ryaner012

I was just wondering if other people had ideas that might help the country get out of the SH!T storm that we are in.

Personally I feel that one way that would benefit the country would be to build much needed infrastructure now. By building much needed schools as well as upgrading the existing schools from the "short term" prefabs to proper buildings as well as transport. Surely this would give unemployed construction workers employment and remove people from the live register as well as injecting taxes into the exchequer.

snow ghost

Where is the funding for such projects going to come from?

There are lots of positive options - first thing is to get some real leadership and restore credibility in those running the show.

ryaner012

well i'm not an expert but surely by spending a bit more it would cover the amount that would be being paid on welfare to the unemployed workers over the time it would take to complete these projects.

I agree that we need to have a new government in place that the people have faith in but does our current electoral system work? there are only 2 countries in the world that use it and the other is Cyprus. Most of these politicians i wouldn't trust to run a paper round let alone an office of government

Dannyboy83

There is no mystery as to what needs to be done.
Simply need to reform spending.

The problem is that there is no political will to do it.

You can dream up all the schemes you like.
It is a complete waste of time until spending is fixed.
And it is clear from today, that it is not going to be fixed.
So threads like this are now a waste of time unfortunately. (no offence intended)

ryaner012

No Offence Taken

But we do need a REVOLUTION

Absurdum

We need an election, now. And we better be damn sure that we have someone in charge with a strong majority and an even stronger set of balls. I honestly don't feel we can get anything done without this.

Jake Rugby Walrus666

Dannyboy83 wrote: »

There is no mystery as to what needs to be done.
Simply need to reform spending.

The problem is that there is no political will to do it.

You can dream up all the schemes you like.
It is a complete waste of time until spending is fixed.
And it is clear from today, that it is not going to be fixed.
So threads like this are now a waste of time unfortunately. (no offence intended)

Your cribbing about messing around with small change. Even our total govt expenditure is mickey mouse money when compared to 300 Bn debt of the bank guarantee scheme. To worry about bits and pieces of that expenditure is exactly the wild goose chase they want you to set sail on. Distracted. Smoke and daggers.

Dannyboy83

ryaner012 wrote: »

No Offence Taken

But we do need a REVOLUTION

It would be nice, but it's also completely romantic/idealistc.

Being pragmatic about this for 2 seconds:
- Those who are benefitting from the system are already entrenched (David Begg is calling for Mass Protest today) - despite the fact that state sector spending wasn't even reformed
- Those who are propping up the system are likely to be the same people who are capable of emigrating. And they will gladly emigrate before getting involved in a slaughter fest

There may be enough disaffected people next year or the year after when the ECB start asking for their money bank and the banks start foreclosing, as Morgan Kelly alluded to.
And, as he suggested, that's likely to be a particularly nasty type of group.
Given that my girlfriend is foreign, I'm not sure if I want to be around here when that kicks off fully (we are already witnessing it on a weekly basis now)

Dannyboy83

Jake Rugby Walrus666 wrote: »

Your cribbing about messing around with small change. Even our total govt expenditure is mickey mouse money when compared to 300 Bn debt of the bank guarantee scheme. To worry about bits and pieces of that expenditure is exactly the wild goose chase they want you to set sail on. Distracted. Smoke and daggers.

For want of a nail the shoe was lost.
For want of a shoe the horse was lost.
For want of a horse the rider was lost.
For want of a rider the battle was lost.
For want of a battle the kingdom was lost.
And all for the want of a horseshoe nail.

Jake Rugby Walrus666

Dannyboy83 wrote: »

For want of a battle the kingdom was lost.
And all for the want of a horseshoe nail.

I've always wanted to see comprehensive, independent analysis of that battle. I have deep suspicions as to whether it came down to a nail.

And back to pocket change. What are we to do?
Cut govt spending by 10 maybe 15 billion. Sack half the public service. Are we planning on any economic activity next year. People need money to spend.

Dannyboy83

Jake Rugby Walrus666 wrote: »

I've always wanted to see comprehensive, independent analysis of that battle. I have deep suspicions as to whether it came down to a nail.

And back to pocket change. What are we to do?
Cut govt spending by 10 maybe 15 billion. Sack half the public service. Are we planning on any economic activity next year. People need money to spend.

Make 31Billion fit into 31Billion over the course of 4 years, heavily frontloaded and achieved through cuts, not tax increases. A balanced budget.That is all
How they do it is entirely up to themselves - this is what they have to work from:


I don't even want to discuss it anymore.
Colm McCarthy's plan by itself was able to achieve 5 billion in cuts.
This government today have suggested 3billion.
I mean - what the hell are they doing????

I honestly question if they are actually trying to FORCE a default i.e. purposely
That is a suspicion at this stage.

I'm blue in the face from saying we need state sector spending reform - and it's abundantly clear that it's entirely pointless continuing to say it anymore.
It worked in 1997-2001. The Tallaght strategy worked etc
People don't want to believe it will work now. Fine, there is nothing more we can do about it, Ireland inc. is finished.

Jake Rugby Walrus666

I agree with you that the exchequer pay and pension bill needs to be cut. To cut it too quickly and violently now will be a twin edged sword. It will cause as many problems as it will solve. The problem is not the wage level but the number of people working for the state. From the time Aherne got rid of McCreavy and installed his 'yes man' cowan in Finance they began employing ridiculous levels of additional people into the public sector in essentially made up jobs. These people do need to be got rid of. And the organisational structures that grew to accommodate them. Various redundancy packages introduced in a stepped fashion over the coming years at a gradual pace is the most prudent path forward. A more avaricious approach won't make you any more capable of dealing with the galactic debts we own from the Bank Guarantee but will stunt economic growth.

h2pogo

ryaner012 wrote: »

No Offence Taken

But we do need a REVOLUTION

+1

Dannyboy83

Jake Rugby Walrus666 wrote: »

I agree with you that the exchequer pay and pension bill needs to be cut. To cut it too quickly and violently now will be a twin edged sword. It will cause as many problems as it will solve. The problem is not the wage level but the number of people working for the state.

This is where we completely diverge.
The problem is not the number of public servants, the problem is the wage level.
Please refer to posts #6 and #10 in this thread:
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055750520

This will give you a clear indication of the pyramid structure.

The reason 25,000 public servants are supposed to lose their job, is as a direct result of the Croke Park Agreement.
This seeks to protect wage levels at all costs - not workers.


Here, let me ask you, which makes more sense to you?

15 footsoldiers @30k each
1 2nd lt @40k
1 sergeant @45k
1 captain @50k
1 general @65k
--
650k

OR

Pyramid style
5 footsoldiers@30k each
1 2nd lt @ 70k
1 sergeant @90k
1 captain @150k
1 general @200k
---
650k

maxxie

why are people not striking?? why are people not taking to the streets?? what is wrong with people????

h2pogo

maxxie wrote: »

why are people not striking?? why are people not taking to the streets?? what is wrong with people????

March from Wood Quay Dublin to the GPO at 11am Saturday 27th



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ing8xH3Qj-k&feature=player_embedded

junder

Just how are strikes going to help your economy, surly the it will only cause more problems

ryaner012

junder wrote: »

Just how are strikes going to help your economy, surly the it will only cause more problems

striking wont help, but we need to show the government and all politicians that we will not stand for this any more.

even a general election will not fix the situation.

we need a complete change to the country. politically, economically, socially.

I feel like an idealist, but but need to start from scratch. And work as ONE country.

laws and policies must be introduced to ensure this sort of thing never happens again and that people are not only accountable for mistakes and white color crimes but are punished severely