Govt Four Year Financial Plan and Defence

Morpheus

Just up on RTE:

According to their website:

Defence Savings:

The key adjustments include reduced
allowances for overseas deployment,
payroll savings and efficiencies in
administrative non pay costs.

Reduction in the provision for allowances
for overseas deployment by the Defence Forces.
Reduction in the number of civilian employees
attached to military installations. Acquisition
of replacement equipment, building and
maintenance projects will be deferred or
cancelled. nice one this ....

Savings
Year 2011 €25m
Year Full Year €25m


Payroll savings
Year 2011 €2.5m
Year Full Year €20m


Non-pay Administrative Savings
Year 2011 €0.1m
Year Full Year €0.4m


Total Defence Savings
Year 2011 €28m
Year Full Year €46m

Defence 2012 – 2014
Achieving the further targeted ongoing savings of €60 million by 2014 will require the adoption of a number of measures additional to those outlined above. This will involve a critical appraisal of every area of activity within the Defence Forces, including overseas duties and domestic services, with a view to maximising efficiency in every area, including procurement. Should it prove difficult to achiee the savings at the targeted personnel level, it may become necessary to consider further personnel reductions. typical this last one...

concussion

Should it prove difficult to achiee the savings at the targeted personnel level, it may become necessary to consider further personnel reductions.

We were given three years to reduce PDF numbers to 10,000 and we did it in one. Now they're considering more??!!!

Morpheus

yes...

if the financial cuts arent enough, they plan to cut numbers... probably figure it will be easy enough to increase numbers again based on current applications to join.

I think the RDFs future could be in the balance if these cuts arent enough, every million saved will equate to x amount of PDF soldiers salaries.

tsk tsk they couldnt be bothered to spell "achieve" correctly either! cutbacks on spell checker?

concussion

A lot of experience has left the DF in the last 12/18 months - that sort of thing is hard to replace.

OS119

concussion wrote: »

A lot of experience has left the DF in the last 12/18 months - that sort of thing is hard to replace.

only one way to regain experience - and you'll not find it in the Glen of Imaal.

if the DF budget needs shaving (and, as you can imagine, i have views on that...) then it needs to hit the Gymkana Club and the Infantry.

the Gymkana Club, because, well its fcuking army, not a polo club, and Infantry because the Army is ridiculously over 'Infantry-ed' and woefully under everything that you actually need to put the Infantry in the field and keep them there.

PeterIanStaker

Someone said in another post that the Dept Defence was the only dept to be cut during the so called good times. A lot of people left the DF.

Just one thing though, would it not be better to give some less - sensitive paperwork admin type roles to strictly vetted and cleared (and I mean extremely strictly, far more thorough than the normal Garda clearance needed to join the RDF/PDF) civilians, therby freeing up soldiers to train?

Sorry if its been said before.

mikeym

How are we gonna afford 2 new warships for the naval service?

Waste of money imo.

concussion

Yeah, because the NS will do fine with the soon to be ancient flotilla they currently have. I haven't seen any change to the decision to purchase them yet

OS119

PeterIanStaker wrote: »

Just one thing though, would it not be better to give some less - sensitive paperwork admin type roles to strictly vetted and cleared (and I mean extremely strictly, far more thorough than the normal Garda clearance needed to join the RDF/PDF) civilians, therby freeing up soldiers to train?....

TBH, much of the paperwork and crappy admin stuff that an Army produces isn't high end stuff, none of it is going to cause the fall of the state if gets into the wrong hands.

the only downside to the 'leaner, meaner' model is that it reduces markedly the number of 'resting' jobs you can give to people who may be good soldiers, but who, for a short period of time, need an easy job that means working 9 - 5 and being home every weekend. bizaarely, this is a very important capability if you work your army hard - people get injured, they have 'unpleasent' tours, family life goes tits-up - and having the ability to send Capt Bloggs to be S08 (Paperclips, Toilet Roll and Moustache Twirling) for two years after he breaks his legs, or Cpl McTavish to the Garrison Armoury after when his wife runs off and leaves him with the kids, is a way of keeping very expensively trained people in the Army and both ensuring that experience stays in, and that they themselves will return to operational units at some point in the future.

it is, on the face of it, a real waste of resources, the alternative however is that people it costs a fortune to replace, will leave.

there is scope for civilianisation - if you go to the BA's Infantry Training Centre at Brecon , you'll find that only the Demonstration Coy, and the instructors are military - everyone else: armourers, clerks, 'resource managers', drivers, mechs, catering etc.. are civilians.

OS119

mikeym wrote: »

How are we gonna afford 2 new warships for the naval service?

Waste of money imo.

when they sink (because, as a studious observer of such matters, you'll know that the ships needing replacing are genuinely falling apart) the payouts the DoD will get slapped for in Court will make the €100m replacement costs look like a sweet memory.

mikeym

Fair enough the older vessels are fit for the knackers yard but their still at sea.

If their falling apart that much why are they at sea now???????

goldie fish

mikeym wrote: »

How are we gonna afford 2 new warships for the naval service?

Waste of money imo.

A waste of money would be cancelling a contract after it has been signed, and paying the dockyard compensation to the value of the ships they have not built.

As would be the case if you cancelled them.

P.S Ireland is located on an island, in case you were wondering.


P.P.S. An island is something that is surrounded on all sides by water.

goldie fish

mikeym wrote: »

Fair enough the older vessels are fit for the knackers yard but their still at sea.

If their falling apart that much why are they at sea now???????

Because the job needs to be done, regardless of what uninformed buffoons think.

OS119

mikeym wrote: »

Fair enough the older vessels are fit for the knackers yard but their still at sea.

If their falling apart that much why are they at sea now???????

the current number of vessels isn't enough to cover the roles - drug interdiction and fisheries protection - that Ireland needs them to carry out. added to that is the problem that the older a vessel gets the more time it spends being repaired vs being at sea, and to add to that joyous mix the character of the North Eastern Atlantic is changing - quite simply Oceanography shows us that the waves are getting bigger where the INS does its business, and the vessels it has simply weren't built to operate for such sea states.

a ship design that was fine 30 years ago is marginal now, and a putting a 'marginal' designed ship with 30 years of metal fatigue into the North Atlantic in February is akin to just shooting 50 sailors in their beds.

the sea state changes mean the the ships would have to be replaced with bigger, heavier ships regardless of their condition. that the first tranche of ships are well past their use by date is just another driver.

this is stuff that needs to be bought whether you've got the money or not.

Savage93

How many troops involved in cash escorts? 2-3 4wds and 9 troops per escort when what is needed at max is 2 in the back of a squad car and a driver & 2 more in a 4wd,Paramilitary threat no longer there. Is there still an 80 man guard in Portlaoise? with QM's allowances for rations for 1 week less than 1 prisoner's food allowance. Dump the equitation school €1m per year, needless expense

PeterIanStaker

OS119 wrote: »

TBH, much of the paperwork and crappy admin stuff that an Army produces isn't high end stuff, none of it is going to cause the fall of the state if gets into the wrong hands.

there is scope for civilianisation - if you go to the BA's Infantry Training Centre at Brecon , you'll find that only the Demonstration Coy, and the instructors are military - everyone else: armourers, clerks, 'resource managers', drivers, mechs, catering etc.. are civilians.

Well put, I hadn't thought of the need to put soldiers into admin roles, but I do think the idea of civilian drivers, etc is a good idea, maybe some could be ex-soldiers, just a thought (and as for the fall of the state, FF are taking care of that:rolleyes:)

concussion

+1 - quite an overlooked point I think OS.

Kingdom_of _oriel

I say fine cut overseas allowances but if they do that then the facilities should be to NATO standard. Air conditioned 2 man portacabins, paid flights home, full range of rations and proper facilities for entertainment and recreation. The defence forces should provide a full proper gym and personal internet communications where possible and yes this is standard fare for the Scandinavians who we have worked with and jointly shared facilities like this before.
I find it disgusting that civil servants cut the allowances of soldiers who are prepared and have given their lives on overseas service, who live in conditions that most Western soldiers would find primitive and rarely complain. I've yet to see an Irish politican or civil servant line up with the troops for dinner in the mess hall never mind stay in the same camp, again the Scandinavians do this. Perhaps its time to emulate our European partners.

ex_infantry man

Savage93 wrote: »

How many troops involved in cash escorts? 2-3 4wds and 9 troops per escort when what is needed at max is 2 in the back of a squad car and a driver & 2 more in a 4wd,Paramilitary threat no longer there. Is there still an 80 man guard in Portlaoise? with QM's allowances for rations for 1 week less than 1 prisoner's food allowance. Dump the equitation school 1m per year, needless expense

for someone to actually give ya that info would simply be like shooting themselves in the foot! ! An act of stupidity.

petergfiffin

Savage93 wrote: »

How many troops involved in cash escorts? ...Paramilitary threat no longer there..

Not so, in fact the situation is worse than it was back in the 80s or 90s because:

1. CIRA have proposed (if the papers are to be believed) that PDF & AGS are fair game if they get in the way - this wasn't the policy for PIRA, I'm not saying by any means they weren't a threat (as proved by various incidents) just they were perhaps less of a threat to state forces.
2. Criminal gangs (who are as well armed as any paramilitary) would have no hesitation in attacking cash escorts if they reckoned the odds were in their favour - the troops act as a real proven deterrrent.

People make a lot of cash escorts but the fact is these are mostly (if not all) paid for by the banks and if cash can't be transported safely around the country the State will cease to function, CIT escorts are there for the sake of the State, not the banks.

OS119

while you certainly have a point that if cash were no longer able to go from where its printed to where its needed then you'd be looking at a societal collapse and therefore the end of the state, IMV placing the CIT tasking in the hands of the Army rather than in the hands of the Gardai creates two problems that really don't help.

1. in order to fulfill the CIT task the Army has to resource yet another capability, it means more soldiers not training, and not being overseas, and worse still, it cements the awful situation where the Army is seen as being a part of the 'local infrastructure' and is deployed accordingly - hence the 418 local barracks all over the place, each eating up manpower just by existing, and reducing the deployable (for anything) force by dint of each needing a guard force, an admin unit - and, courtesy of the parish pump mentality, a garrison unit to pump money into the local shops.

2. quite simply it makes Ireland look - and, i imagine, feel - like a Banana Republic. no other European state has its Army escort cash vans: a) because oddly enough they believe that thats what the police are for, and b) they've twigged that when people see armed soldiers on the street they know that something has gone very, very wrong.

woefully simplistic it may be, but for me, if i knew that the state had to employ the Army to do something that every other first world state placed in the hands of its civilian police, and that this had been the case not for a few exeptional weeks, but for time immemorial, that would be an indicator that my state wasn't a 'proper state', in that its writ didn't run across the whole of the state, rather that it was a failing state. if you want to know why nobody thinks the rules apply to them, and why everyone just seems to be out to dig out what they can for themselves and sod everyone else, then the government inspired suggestion that anarchy and collapse are just around the corner might be a pretty good reason.

El Guapo!

So with all the cutbacks being planned do you guys think its unlikely the DF will recruit again next year?

Savage93

you don't have to be James Bond to find this out, it's common knowledge, I was just questioning the need in the present climate to tie up this kind of manpower and pointing out the fact that a QM is supposed to feed his troops for a week on what is budgeted for one prisoner for a week, I've seen the animals through the fence!!!

OS119

Dean09 wrote: »

So with all the cutbacks being planned do you guys think its unlikely the DF will recruit again next year?

if they have a brain, yes. 18 yo privates are much cheaper than Cpl's who've been in the Army for 20 years.

the DF needs to lose 500 bodies in total, if it got rid of 1000 old sweats at the top of their rank pay scales they could recruit 500 privates to bring them to the new establishment and keep a significant proportion of the money saved to do important things like fund overseas exercises.

the loss of experience this would entail wouldn't really be a problem because the DF Army isn't going anywhere for the next few years - you don't need an experienced (read: old) Army to mount a few dozen CIT's every year and paint rocks.

Donny5

OS119 wrote: »

if they have a brain, yes. 18 yo privates are much cheaper than Cpl's who've been in the Army for 20 years.

the DF needs to lose 500 bodies in total, if it got rid of 1000 old sweats at the top of their rank pay scales they could recruit 500 privates to bring them to the new establishment and keep a significant proportion of the money saved to do important things like fund overseas exercises.

the loss of experience this would entail wouldn't really be a problem because the DF Army isn't going anywhere for the next few years - you don't need an experienced (read: old) Army to mount a few dozen CIT's every year and paint rocks.

On the other hand, there isn't all that much of a saving is getting rid of an old sweat on an old contract who'll walk out with a nice pension and benefits.

Avgas

OS119 wrote: »

quite simply it [CIT] makes Ireland look - and, i imagine, feel - like a Banana Republic. no other European state has its Army escort cash vans: a) because oddly enough they believe that thats what the police are for, and b) they've twigged that when people see armed soldiers on the street they know that something has gone very, very wrong.

Can't agree with you here OS119.

First up, does not the Great USA not have most of its gold stashed at Fort Knox-a massive US Army base? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Bullion_Depository

The same logic applies-getting military to part defend vital elements of your monetary system.

I am quite happy to see OUR soldiers at work and with their weapons on our streets. Most people are not scared by them-indeed as kids we loved to see 'our' Army!

The soldiers I see regularly are both alert and doing the basic security job but also making eye contact and are friendly to passers by. Tourists do sometimes gape a bit…but it is usually explained to them and they accept that in a small state which does NOT have a PARAMILITARY POLICE FORCE/gendarmerie (and UK is also unusual in not having such) then the army land forces may well be tasked with such non-combat but armed 'aid to civil power'.

In many other European states it is common to see heavily armed paramilitary police in a variety of very mundane policing duties. If you make a decision not to have such a force then you can expect to have to use your army more.

BA has historically never had to go there given the absence of systematic threat to CIT movements, which we have had (the Viet Taff hardly count!).

The CIT evolved from our own experience during the 'troubles'. There was never enough overtime and Garda special branch to cover all CIT movements. Moreover, the issue of firepower and safety in the use of firearms has come up-i.e. that the Army would be safer if fire had to be used, etc.

Would you prefer if there were private security contractors with private weapons-that would scare me a lot more! It would also cost a lot more.

For larger escorts there are usually I understand plain clothes SB or similar Gardai (armed) just like in other countries.

Threats to Irish CIT are not ancient history nor theoretical: just check out: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jerry_McCabe

RIP.

Army escort was NOT present that day and prob. the ram-raid would never have been attempted if they were.

Deterrent effect of army = powerful.

Respectfully, I'd agreed there are reasons why one might call Ireland a 'banana republic' right now-but the role and conduct of our Army in CIT is not one of them.

We could be needing our DF very shortly for all sorts of things we would have hoped never to see.

ChunkyLover_53

Cash Escorts generate money for the State.

I think they took in about €7 million last year from the banks paying for the privilige.

However now that the State owns part of the banks & will probably own a couple by next year, that might change.

There is always a threat to large amounts of Cash be it from subversives or from criminals. And there are plenty of well tooled up young lads out there who are deterred by the fact there is an armed presence on the escorts.

As a previous poster mentioned the armed guard at Portlaoise Prision is long over due to be scrapped as well as the Airborne Taxi MATS service.

oncevotedff

OS119 wrote: »

if they have a brain, yes. 18 yo privates are much cheaper than Cpl's who've been in the Army for 20 years.

Actually they aren't since the 18 year old has to be trained at great expense before he can contribute anything to the DF. Incidentally there are very few Corporals over the age of 30 these days.

OS119 wrote: »

the DF needs to lose 500 bodies in total, if it got rid of 1000 old sweats at the top of their rank pay scales they could recruit 500 privates to bring them to the new establishment and keep a significant proportion of the money saved to do important things like fund overseas exercises..

The 1000 "old sweats" would have to be replaced by 1000 slightly younger sweats at the same rate of pay in 3 years time. The effect your suggestion would actually have is a reduction of 500 young soldiers in the DF. And the DF doesn't need to be reduced further.

But there are many ways to save money in the DF.

We have way too many officers.

There are far too many people involved in HQ jobs. I'd estimate that one third of the DF (at least) administers the rest.

There aren't 418 barracks in the country but there are still too many. That said, closing barracks in the past has led to an increase in "split" units rather than the re-integration of units as promised.

The RDF does not provide value for money. Use it or lose it.

Scrap the PC-9s, MATS and the trolley-dollies.

No army anywhere has any use for a private soldier in his 30s or a junior NCO in his 40s. The pensionable job-for-life scenario should be abandoned.

If a soldier is out of work through illness he shouldn't be paid. That's why we pay PRSI.

Do we need military hospitals, doctors, dentists and nurses?

CITs, Portlaoise and Shannon guard should be scrapped.

MSA, SDA, Subsistence and travelling expenses could be done away with. Should sailors get an allowance for going to sea on top of their wages? Should a soldier get Technician's Pay because he can drive a truck?

Does every unit and sub-unit need its own administration and Logs cell?

mikeym

oncevotedff wrote: »

But there are many ways to save money in the DF.

We have way too many officers

I agree too many chiefs and not enough indians.

oncevotedff wrote: »

Should sailors get an allowance for going to sea on top of their wages?

If that was to happen we wouldnt have a naval service because nobody would go to sea for free.

oncevotedff

mikeym wrote: »

If that was to happen we wouldnt have a naval service because nobody would go to sea for free.

They wouldn't be going for free. They get paid a wage to go.

Would you pay a plumber a weekly wage with an allowance on top for using a pipe-wrench? So why pay a sailor an allowance to sail?

And I have two words for a sailor who refuses to go to sea- Court Martial.

petergfiffin

oncevotedff wrote: »

Would you pay a plumber a weekly wage with an allowance on top for using a pipe-wrench? So why pay a sailor an allowance to sail?

If I expected him to call around to my house and stay there 24/7 for 3 weeks at a time for about 6/7 months a year then year....I'd expect to have to pay him a little extra!!

Sea pay is kind of like hardship pay, it's a recognition of the tough conditions at sea.

dodgydes

oncevotedff wrote: »

If a soldier is out of work through illness he shouldn't be paid. That's why we pay PRSI....

Do we need military hospitals, doctors, dentists and nurses?...

MSA, SDA, Subsistence and travelling expenses could be done away with. Should sailors get an allowance for going to sea on top of their wages? Should a soldier get Technician's Pay because he can drive a truck?

Do you work for the IMF by any chance?

goldie fish

oncevotedff wrote: »

They wouldn't be going for free. They get paid a wage to go.

Would you pay a plumber a weekly wage with an allowance on top for using a pipe-wrench? So why pay a sailor an allowance to sail?

And I have two words for a sailor who refuses to go to sea- Court Martial.

If the NS were getting paid as much as plumbers they'd be happy to go to sea without the PDA.

But they aren't.

oncevotedff

petergfiffin wrote: »

If I expected him to call around to my house and stay there 24/7 for 3 weeks at a time for about 6/7 months a year then year....I'd expect to have to pay him a little extra!!

Sea pay is kind of like hardship pay, it's a recognition of the tough conditions at sea.

goldie fish wrote: »

If the NS were getting paid as much as plumbers they'd be happy to go to sea without the PDA.

But they aren't.

DF members get paid by the day. If they don't like the job they can always leave and find a better one someplace else.

dodgydes wrote: »

Do you work for the IMF by any chance?

No

goldie fish

oncevotedff wrote: »

DF members get paid by the day. If they don't like the job they can always leave and find a better one someplace else.

And the defence of the state? Who does that then?

newby.204

em while they will have numbers for overseas missions because they can tell you to go, if they cut the allowance, i.e. pocket more of it before its passed on to us, i think you'll find alot of lads trying to get out it. I certainly wont be lining up for half the rate lads were gettin two/three years ago for 6 months in a "less comfortable environment than home" to put it politely

ChunkyLover_53

Hmm I'm always puzzled with these threads when someone mentions cuts they always seem to start at the bottom of the pay scale.

The Chief of Staff of the Defence Forces earns approx €180000 annually

A Lt Col on the max pay increment earns €78000

A 3 Star Private Soldier with 1 child qualifies for Family Income Supplement. Fact.
If you earn less than €506 per week after tax & prsi deductions & levys etc. you qualify for FIS. A 3 Pte Soldier with no children and on the highest pay increment earns approx €507 p/w(after tax & deductions)

Cutting the sea going duty allowance means the young lad who goes to sea every 3 weeks for 3 weeks gets paid the same wage as the guy on duty on the gate, and the guy on the gate will get duty money & go home to see his family next day.

Sailors/Soldiers don't recieve overtime like other members of the Emergency Services & face massive fines if absent from duty & found guilty. Paying out duty allowance/sea going allowance is a small incentive for doing ones duty.

Even if you slashed the allowances Sailors/Soldiers would still turn up as its their duty to do so. Members of the Defenc Forces are a soft target for budget cuts as they have no voice of dissent & will comply with all orders sent down from Government.

If cuts are to be made start from the top and lead by example.

Anyway reorganisation and centralisation is where most savings can be made.

OS119

the only way you save real money is by losing whole capabilities - deciding on things that you just aren't going to do anymore.

the figures i've seen bandied about by people who seem to have a grip on such things - about 14% of the spending power of the DoD - are not going to happen by cutting this or that allowance, they will only happen without the DF grinding to a halt by serious people deciding that X, Y, or Z capability (or, lets be candid, paper capability in the case of the Army structure and doctrine), is going in the bin.

the UK MoD about 8% of its funding - it scrapped the Harrier fleet, one aircraft carrier, either one helicopter carrier or one aircraft carrier, half a dozen 6,000 ton escorts, almost half the Tornado fleet, 7,000 soldiers and one hundred Challenger 2 tanks. anyone who thinks the Irish DoD is going to save 14% of its budget by losing 500 posts and trimming some allowances is obviously putting crack on their cornflakes...

Manic Moran

First up, does not the Great USA not have most of its gold stashed at Fort Knox-a massive US Army base? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_...ion_Depository

They just use the land, it's at the very edge of the base, far closer to Hwy 31W than it is to the base cantonment area. Soldiers aren't allowed near it, the US Mint Police have the security duty. Though there is an agreement from the Army to help if required, it's no different to any other Aid to the Civil Power-style backup as you might find for any other un-anticipated incident.

NTM

Steyr

Just thinking about changes ( if any ) for the IAC, what would the feelings be on UAV's for CIT/Top Cover/General Surveillance Duties? Would it be a viable option, not the little look 2 miles ahead of you but a proper UAV along the lines of Unarmed Reaper/IAI Heron/Pioneer.

Would this be a viable cost effective move forward?

OS119

Steyr wrote: »

Just thinking about changes ( if any ) for the IAC, what would the feelings be on UAV's for CIT/Top Cover/General Surveillance Duties? Would it be a viable option, not the little look 2 miles ahead of you but a proper UAV along the lines of Unarmed Reaper/IAI Heron/Pioneer.

Would this be a viable cost effective move forward?

yes.

one RQ-9 Reaper can stay in the air for 36hrs, if we base our supposition that a cessna can stay on station for 2hrs you would probably need an absolute minimum of four airframes to maintain a 'one on station' posture for a 36 hour period.

you'd save on ground/mantainence crew because with the Reaper they'd get it ready, watch it fly away and go off shift for 36 hours - whereas the cessnas would need crews working the whole time of the op, a 24/7 shift pattern.

the determining factor of whether you'd save money on pilots would be whether you could use a 'hyper UAV' like Reaper that uses fully qualified pilots, or more basic systems (that might have a problem with airspace restrictions) that use NCO UAV operators to pilot them. either way, you'd save on Flying pay.

if its a UAV that you used for Maritime Patrol you'd save even more money - sending manned aircraft out into the atlantic demands that you have SAR capabilities (both air and surface) on hand if they go in the water, however if a UAV goes in the drink its not a problem - its expensive, but no lives are at risk.

ZULU9niner

They're also a damn sight more expensive than an AW139

ZULU9niner

OS119 wrote: »

the only way you save real money is by losing whole capabilities - deciding on things that you just aren't going to do anymore.

the figures i've seen bandied about by people who seem to have a grip on such things - about 14% of the spending power of the DoD - are not going to happen by cutting this or that allowance, they will only happen without the DF grinding to a halt by serious people deciding that X, Y, or Z capability (or, lets be candid, paper capability in the case of the Army structure and doctrine), is going in the bin.

the UK MoD about 8% of its funding - it scrapped the Harrier fleet, one aircraft carrier, either one helicopter carrier or one aircraft carrier, half a dozen 6,000 ton escorts, almost half the Tornado fleet, 7,000 soldiers and one hundred Challenger 2 tanks. anyone who thinks the Irish DoD is going to save 14% of its budget by losing 500 posts and trimming some allowances is obviously putting crack on their cornflakes...

Lose 1 Bde in the Army. Redesign of DF to roll down Army Component to circa 4,000 total.
Lose Kilkenny, Clonmel, Cavan, Mullingar straight off.
Amalgamation of Galway, Athlone and Limerick in the near future, to either Shannon or Galway. Combine Naval and A/C facilities at new location.
Look at possible closure of Cork to a green field sight in future to aide expansion.
Any future increase in DF numbers/budget to be allocated to NS and AC personnel and equipment
Lose AMLs
Lose Scorpions
Lose Learjet and possible PC9s
Reduce flying hours
Reduce Patrol days
Equestrian school to be handed off to civilian dept (Sports/Tourism etc)
Lose all RDF owned properties
Stop all renting of RDF used properties.
Lose RDF in current form for 4-5 years.
Remove Cadre Allowances and mileage.
Reduce incoming wages by 10%
Reduce Promotion salaries by 10%
Cut Overseas allowance to allow for armed service only
Reduce patrol pay for NS
Reduce flying pay for AC
Reduce number of staff appointments overseas

Am I nearly at 14% yet?

OS119

ZULU9niner wrote: »

They're also a damn sight more expensive than an AW139

how many AW139's/aircrew/maintainence crews would you need to keep a watch on the Dublin-Belfast trainline for a week?

if you took the GPMG fittings off an AW139, could it fly 1000 miles out into the Atlantic, and visually/IR track a suspected Drug or Arms running boat all the way to the west coast?

can an AW139 fly significantly higher than any of the Surface to Air weapons that any of the various paramilitary groups in Ireland have ever managed to get hold of?