Inaccuate posts [thread split]

quozl

Honestly, there needs to be some sort of forum policy of reprimands, or temp bans, for people who post Part 4 information in reply to fixed term leases.

It's destructive. It hides any useful information for the OP in noise, and is potentially very damaging for the OP by persuading them that they do not have rights that they actually do.

I hope that the OPs decision to move out and abrogate their rights was not influenced by the Part 4 misinformation posted in reply to their query.

It's a serious problem on this forum. While anybody posting here needs to understand that replies are not legal advice, and they ought to know not to trust them, they should be able to expect a basic level of accuracy.

Best of luck with it Goldfish2010, but you are being taken for a complete ride by your landlord.

ztoical

quozl wrote: »

Honestly, there needs to be some sort of forum policy of reprimands, or temp bans, for people who post Part 4 information in reply to fixed term leases.

It's destructive. It hides any useful information for the OP in noise, and is potentially very damaging for the OP by persuading them that they do not have rights that they actually do.

I hope that the OPs decision to move out and abrogate their rights was not influenced by the Part 4 misinformation posted in reply to their query.

It's a serious problem on this forum. While anybody posting here needs to understand that replies are not legal advice, and they ought to know not to trust them, they should be able to expect a basic level of accuracy.

Sorry this is going off topic mods:

On what grounds - This is an internet message forum not a legal channel. Anyone who takes any advice offered on any part of boards.ie as gospel frankly deserves what ever they get. I find boards very helpful for answering some questions I need a quick reply to but I would always check with a qualified source before taking any action.

convert

quozl wrote: »

Honestly, there needs to be some sort of forum policy of reprimands, or temp bans, for people who post Part 4 information in reply to fixed term leases.

It's destructive. It hides any useful information for the OP in noise, and is potentially very damaging for the OP by persuading them that they do not have rights that they actually do.

I hope that the OPs decision to move out and abrogate their rights was not influenced by the Part 4 misinformation posted in reply to their query.

It's a serious problem on this forum. While anybody posting here needs to understand that replies are not legal advice, and they ought to know not to trust them, they should be able to expect a basic level of accuracy.

Best of luck with it Goldfish2010, but you are being taken for a complete ride by your landlord.

You'd probably get a quicker (and possibly more favourable) response from mods if you sent this query/suggestion via PM rather than posting on thread to question mod decisions and/or the forum charter (which, by the way, is a big no-no in pretty much every forum on boards.ie).

Now, back on topic: OP, you need to talk to threshold about this. They'll advise you (accurately) of your rights and what course of action, if any, is necessary.

The_Conductor

quozl wrote: »

Honestly, there needs to be some sort of forum policy of reprimands, or temp bans, for people who post Part 4 information in reply to fixed term leases.

It's destructive. It hides any useful information for the OP in noise, and is potentially very damaging for the OP by persuading them that they do not have rights that they actually do.

I hope that the OPs decision to move out and abrogate their rights was not influenced by the Part 4 misinformation posted in reply to their query.

It's a serious problem on this forum. While anybody posting here needs to understand that replies are not legal advice, and they ought to know not to trust them, they should be able to expect a basic level of accuracy.

Best of luck with it Goldfish2010, but you are being taken for a complete ride by your landlord.

As moderator- I disagree with you.
If you notice someone obviously mixing up fixed term and Part 4 tenancies- the best thing you can do is correct them. I'm not the Gestapo, we're all human, we can just as easily make mistakes ourselves. We should however learn from our mistakes. Rapping people on the knuckles for posting misleading/inaccurate information, sets a bad precedent and is not a road I would like to go down- aside from anything else- it would stifle discussion on what are emotive topics for many of us.

If you have an issue with a post- you have two options- to either refute the post factually without personalising your post, or to use the report post function drawing moderators attention to an individual post, alongside your reasons for reporting it, and the moderators in turn can examine the post and decide on an appropriate course of action.

I dislike inaccurate information being peddled as fact, as much as the next person- but surely the better course of action is to impart clear precise and accurate information to the misinformed, and educate them (and ourselves) in the process......?

If someone is being argumentative or vindictive towards other forum members (by any means, and for any purpose)- at that stage certainly they to be taken to task, however simply posting inaccurate information should not in my eyes warrant what amounts to a punishment.

Regards,

SMcCarrick

quozl

smccarrick wrote: »

As moderator- I disagree with you.
I dislike inaccurate information being peddled as fact, as much as the next person- but surely the better course of action is to impart clear precise and accurate information to the misinformed, and educate them (and ourselves) in the process......?

Which I have in other threads where this misconception has arisen. It does not stop it arising time and time again.

There is something extremely disquieting to me in people who do not understand the difference between a part 4 and fixed term lease, casually posting misinformation and telling people that they do not have any rights in such awful situations. It is a cavaleer and damaging disregard for other people.

Maybe it can't be changed, I'll leave it at that.

The_Conductor

quozl wrote: »

Which I have in multiple threads where this misconception has arisen. It does not stop it arising time and time again.

There is something extremely disquieting to me, in people who do not understand the difference between a part 4 and fixed term lease, casually posting misinformation and telling people that they do not have any rights in such awful situations.

I can understand where you're coming from- I'm blue in the face repeating things myself- and I know only too well how frustrating it can be. Having a set script saved as a txt file and report posting the inaccurate post, may save your sanity....... The two main moderators here- Victor and myself, do try to hit things and correct inaccuracies as they arise- however we rely on the goodwill of forum users to bring inaccuracies or problematic posts to our attention.

djimi

Quozl, would you be so kind as to actually explain, in as simple terms as possible, what a part 4 tenancy is please? Im not being smart; I have the basic jist of it I think but Im still quite confused about it.

useruser

quozl wrote: »

Which I have in other threads where this misconception has arisen. It does not stop it arising time and time again.

There is something extremely disquieting to me in people who do not understand the difference between a part 4 and fixed term lease, casually posting misinformation and telling people that they do not have any rights in such awful situations. It is a cavaleer and damaging disregard for other people.

Maybe it can't be changed, I'll leave it at that.

Quozl makes a very good point. This confused response (part 4 vs. fixed lease) comes up again and again in this forum and may be confusing people who are looking for advice at a very difficult time.

It may be a little heavy handed but I would be in favour of the mods replacing/augmenting the offending posts with some boilerplate explanatory text in this instance rather than having the now familiar "yes it is" "no it's not" argument.

Coriolanus

I'd be in favour of the community getting together to hammer out a FAQ/ Common Mistakes thread personally.
Seems to be the best way of educating everyone in one fell swoop rather than loading another burden on to the mods.

3DataModem

While it is possible that I have inadvertently quoted wrong info above, I will say the following;

- Citizens Information is generally in my experience a good source of clarity around Irish questions. It appears in this case that some feel it is legally inaccurate in a very serious and misleading manner regarding Part 4. This needs to be fixed, because a lot of people refer to that site.

- I've read the legislation, and it is not completely clear to me as to the distinction between fixed term and part 4. I'm both a tenant and landlord, so this is important to me.

- A lot of leases I've seen (including those I use with my tenants) allow the landlord terminate if they want to move themself or their family in (or sell). To accurately answer this question for a poster we need to know if there are any clauses related to this in the fixed term lease.

The_Conductor

Nevore wrote: »

I'd be in favour of the community getting together to hammer out a FAQ/ Common Mistakes thread personally.
Seems to be the best way of educating everyone in one fell swoop rather than loading another burden on to the mods.

I think this is probably a good idea. I'm going to start a thread and will sticky it.

Thanks for the suggestion,

Shane

Victor

Believe me, I'm sorely tempted sometimes to hand out bans or infractions for such posts.

I think we did discuss it on the Moderators board at one time and the general consensus was to counter the point, not to delete / ban / infract.

Importantly, moderators do know everything*. What if we got something wrong?


* Victor admits fallibility.

Blackjack

djimi wrote: »

Quozl, would you be so kind as to actually explain, in as simple terms as possible, what a part 4 tenancy is please? Im not being smart; I have the basic jist of it I think but Im still quite confused about it.

I'd like to know this too.

quozl

I've tried to explain the differences, as I understand them here http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056098714

Citizens information seems at first glance to me to be accurate, but it's easy to miss that those part 4 exceptions don't apply to fixed term leases. They're Part 4 specific.

Other sites, like irishlandlord.com don't even mention the difference in their FAQ on notice you have to give when terminating a lease. They only list the Part 4 exceptions, and don't explain when they don't apply. I can totally understand someone checking that as a reference and assuming it applies to their situation.

Again though, I am not a lawyer, so I'd be very interested in any corrections to my explanation in that thread.

Blackjack

Link appears to be invalid.

The_Conductor

Yes- try this one: http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056099064

Sorry, I went on a cleaning binge earlier......

Blackjack

smccarrick wrote: »

Yes- try this one: http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056099064

Sorry, I went on a cleaning binge earlier......

cool, thanks