Sympathy for the Green party

Wide Road

Is there any sympathy for the Green party out there? They came to power at the wrong time and are getting blamed for policies that were carried out before they came to power. The Greens are the fall guys and are likely to lose heavily in the next election because of this. The Greens believe that they have no mandate (to continue) from the electorate and will pull the rug in the new year. Are they going to become like the PD's?
I'm not sure, are you?

Profiler

No sympathy what so ever. As the old quote goes

"If you lie down with dogs, you get up with fleas"

The Greens put Fianna Fail back into power, they must and will suffer the consequences for that.

What I dislike about all this is that how John Gormley et al have acted has wounded the Green party, potentially a fatal wound, they have damaged the green agenda.

Revolution9

The people currently running the party should be eradicated in the upcoming Election but I certainly feel that some sort of a Green party should exist going into the future. I hope they don't follow the PDs and wind up all together. A good few years in Opposition and some fresh blood is the healthier option for Irish politics.

meglome

In general I like what the Greens stand for but on principle I'm not voting for them this time. To be fair they are not really responsible for what's happened but they stunned me at the time by getting in with FF. I wouldn't have voted for them had I known.

Profiler

meglome wrote: »

In general I like what the Greens stand for but on principle I'm not voting for them this time.

Neither will I vote for them this time and unless there is a fundamental review and change within the Green Party then I will not vote for them again.

I live in Trevor Sargent's constituency, he got a 2nd preference from me last time around.

I was angry with the Green Party for going into power with Fianna Fail, however I thought highly of Sargent for standing down as leader once his party made the democratic decision to go into power.

That action gave the Greens a 2nd chance in my view...

Fool me once shame on you, fool me twice shame on me.

gizmo555

None whatever.

John Gormley had the gall to talk about "Jesuitical" communications from their FF partners in recent days.

What about Trevor Sargent's resigning as Green leader because he said wouldn't lead them into coalition with FF, then immediately voting in the Dáil in favour of that coalition and accepting the position of junior minister in it? Then we were all supposed to applaud him for being a man of his word . . .

The fact is, when Bertie put this coalition together, a lot of people expressed surprise at the Greens' inclusion, saying he didn't need them to make up the numbers. If the Greens hadn't acted as belt to the ex-PDs and independents' braces, we'd have had an election long ago and we would not be in the position where the most reviled government in our history is negotiating terms on a four year bailout, when it will leave office as soon as the deal is struck, leaving responsibility for its implementation to others.

aidan24326

The Greens are likely to go the way of the PDs. They may not be the actual murderer here (that being FF), but they can certainly be convicted as an accessory to murder, and in most jurisdictions that's viewed as almost as bad.

They can argue that they needed to be in power to actually get any of their policies implemented, and that's true, but going into power with the arrogant and bloated dinosaur that is FF was the wrong decision and one that may prove fatal. They should have stayed in opposition and would now be heading into the next election with the chance of making significant gains rather than facing a possible wipeout.

amacachi

None here, they had a few years to make a difference and decided not to. They let the government sell the country out for the sake of getting a carbon tax through. At least that's the best one can say about them. Then when it's too late for anything to be done they decide to pull out of government.

Carlos_Ray

The greens are a bunch of morons who facilitated the current crisis. Anybody who is stupid enough to vote for them or Fianna Fail again, needs shooting.

Sand

No sympathy. They inherited a bad situation and made it worse. They also collaborated with the unconstitutional prevention of Dail bye-elections.

Fianna Fail and Cowen couldnt criticise past governments policies without criticising themselves. The Greens had the freedom to evaluate the correct course of action to take. That makes their embrace of every failed policy of this government in response to the bank and fiscal crisis all the more damning.

They could have chosen to walk prior to NAMA with some dignity and an electoral future (I'd have given them a transfer). Instead theyre going to get wiped out electorally next time out and deservedly so. Theyll feel sorry for themselves, but this government record has been utterly disastrous for the country, and however much they might try to deny it they were enthuastic members of this government and relentlessly supportive of the failed and disastrous measures taken.

Common as...

What they did today was crazy, but if is I was to give um anything I would say cute hoores- they are not

Wide Road

Sand wrote: »

No sympathy. They inherited a bad situation and made it worse.



Would any other party have made it better?

alang184

No sympathy whatsoever. I voted for them the last time. Never again.

ALL political parties exercise a "party before people" policy. We see it all the time. We saw it today. The Green's foolishly saw this as an opportunity to cash in on the public hatred for the government, announcing an election.

Why? Obviously they are trying to regain credibility; nothing else. It's disgusting. And they come on these TV shows with all the usual bladder about "the people's interest", whereas for all of them, the number 1 is PARTY.

amacachi

Wide Road wrote: »

Would any other party have made it better?

They could've triggered an election at any time. We'll never know if something could've been done.

Overheal

meglome wrote: »

In general I like what the Greens stand for but on principle I'm not voting for them this time. To be fair they are not really responsible for what's happened but they stunned me at the time by getting in with FF. I wouldn't have voted for them had I known.

You would cut off your nose to spite your face then?

Dara Robinson

Profiler wrote: »

The Greens put Fianna Fail back into power, they must and will suffer the consequences for that.

Actually it was the people who voted for FF who put them back in power. If it was not the Greens in there with them it would have been someone else. And I doubt anyone would have done any better. Actually the Greens brought in a lot of good things while they were in there, but no one cares due to the current situation (which is fair enough tbh).

The reality also is, what people do not seem to understand, is that it was not the Green Party Leadership who made the decision but the Green Party members. It was a 2/3 majority in favour. A change in Green Leadership is not needed, just an actual chance to make a difference and time to get noticed for that. While I see why people voted for Greens to go in the reality is that with hindsight the current government (regardless who it was) never stood a chance as they were handed a powder keg with the fuse already lit. Not a fan of FF, in fact quite the opposite, but no point in avoiding the truth.
The true villain here is Berty. His greed, complete incompetence and lack of foresight is the reason we are in the place we are. But worse, teh guy was voted in over and over again. So really we should be blaming our selves (well... you lot! lol I never voted for him ).

Liam Byrne

The Greens pulled a sleight-of-hand re getting into power.

They then proceeded to prop up FF, vote for NAMA & Anglo.

So they may have come to power at the wrong time, but they made despicable choices and deserve absolutely no sympathy because of their choices.

Yesterday's fiasco (and the equally "fiascoical" upcoming 2 months or so) was yet another cock-up by them.

Consigned to history at the next election, and thankfully so.

Sleepy

When you're a small party and you renege on the very promise that made people feel safe giving you a vote as soon as ballots have been counted, you're dead in politics.

The Greens would not have won a quarter of the seats they did without Sargeants "commitment" not to prop up a Fianna Fail government. They turned their back on their electorate and we'll return the favour at the polls in Janauary.

Permabear

This post has been deleted.

jmayo

Sympathy for the Green party ??

No, Ní hea, Nada, Nein, Non, Neen, Nej, Ei, Ochi, Nem, Nei, Ne, Nee, Não, Na, Nu, Nyet, Mhai, Bu shi, Iie

Thanks to the Greens I have learned how to say No in so many languages.
Can't for the life of me think of another reason to thank them. :rolleyes:

PS apologies if your language was not included.

InigoMontoya

None.

paddy462

I've no sympathy at all for the Greens. They have lost any bit of respect they ever had.
Labour paid a high price in '97 for having gone in to government with Fiannal Fail. Though that government ended in '94 after the '92 election, the voters waited in the long grass for their revenge. The Greens don't have the strength Labour had then, the Greens will be destroyed in the upcoming election.

bijapos

As someone who voted for them last time out and will more than likely vote for them this time out I have no sympathy for them, as indeed I have no sympathy for any political party.

They chose to go in with FF with all the advantages and disadvantages that entailed, they were all over 18 when the decision was made and you have to stand by your decisions for better or worse.

They did not cause the underlying problems that caused this crisis (the construction bubble) indeed they were the most vocal party against it, but by voting in the bank guarantee in 2008 they have contributed in their own way to the mess that we are now in.

godwin

Green politics are related to a countries austerity , the richer a country the more affordable Green Party Policies(carbon tax etc)are.
Green policies have no place in a poor Ireland.

mb1725

NO. Butch of ineffectual, spineless, hypocrites. Maybe a name change is in order now, like the Yellow Party.:rolleyes:

Macha

Sleepy wrote: »

When you're a small party and you renege on the very promise that made people feel safe giving you a vote as soon as ballots have been counted, you're dead in politics.

The Greens would not have won a quarter of the seats they did without Sargeants "commitment" not to prop up a Fianna Fail government. They turned their back on their electorate and we'll return the favour at the polls in Janauary.

This has been discussed ad nauseum in this forum and it has been made crystal clear that the Greens never made such a claim:

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=67416184

Why do you insist on perpetuating this lie? If you don't want to vote for them, fine. But don't say that you're doing it for something that's a fiction.

If you don't want to vote for anyone who won't go into government with Fianna Fail in Ireland, that basically means you're voting for FG and no one else.

Godwin - it is a fallacy that the economy and environmental concerns are at two opposite sides of a pendulum and that we can't "afford" environmentally friendly policies. Many policies are about the efficient use of resources, which is vital to the competitiveness of any economy.

Liam Byrne

Macha wrote: »

This has been discussed ad nauseum in this forum and it has been made crystal clear that the Greens never made such a claim:

It might have been made "crystal clear" since, but it was certainly phrased so as to be fudged.

I would consider myself well informed - and cynical enough to double-check - and I fell for it.

HivemindXX

I do have sympathy for them. I don't particularly like them but the hatred for them seems disproportionate.

People seem to blame them more than FF for the current state of the economy.

They don't deserve much credit for forcing the government out at this late point, but I've read that it was "disgusting" and I can't see the logic behind that at all. Would people prefer if they propped the government up until the bitter end? They don't deserve much credit, but they do deserve some.

I was talking to someone that was frothing at the mouth about how the greens had made his car valueless. A blatantly ridiculous statement.

Bill2673

I campaigned for them at the last election.

The reason was that I had always voted Green, and always felt my vote was a wasted vote.

My local candidate was Patricia McKenna.

I went into the campaigning thinking, I'm not that mad on Patricia McKenna but because she is the Green candidate I will support her.

I came out of the election campaign thinking, I really like Patricia McKenna but I don't like at all where the Green party is going.

Everything I've seen since the formation of this government backs this up.

Patricia McKenna stood for a lot of the principles that the Greens were founded on. As one by one these principles were abandoned she eventually decided to leave the party.

The Green's have achieved next to nothing in this administration. By contrast they have compromised at every turn, Shell to Sea and the Tara motorway being two obvious examples. And thats not to mention their complete abstention from the economic debate. When Brian lenihan was talking about a banks guarantee, they were talking about light bulbs.

I've no time at all for Gormley in particular. He is big into politicking (if that is a word). His big achievement was shouting at Michael McDowell up a lamp post. He goes around in his prius or his bicycle. He has achieved very little in legislative terms. Yesterdays move in my view was an ill-informed decision by a confused group of 4 or 5 tds that represent the Green party in government making a last grasp for some credibility, them and Mattie McGrath.

I think there is a future for the Greens, but these guys are not a Green party.

Bill2673

HivemindXX wrote: »

People seem to blame them more than FF for the current state of the economy.

Not sure I'd quite agree with that.

.

Cool Mo D

As far as I can see, the Greens are a popular scapegoat for people who voted for Fianna Fail at the last election, and now want someone to blame that doesn't make themselves look bad.

dolphin city

i think the OP is talking about the Yellow Party - there used to be a green party here once, but they left a long long time ago to be replaced by the "how high do you want me to jump" yellow party.

i57dwun4yb1pt8

funny Eamon ryan, even as an intellectual lightweight of the highest order
doesn't seem to think the greens will suffer too badly

he must be delusional as well as thick.

I dont think they actually realise just how vicious the payback is going to be

irishh_bob

Wide Road wrote: »

Is there any sympathy for the Green party out there? They came to power at the wrong time and are getting blamed for policies that were carried out before they came to power. The Greens are the fall guys and are likely to lose heavily in the next election because of this. The Greens believe that they have no mandate (to continue) from the electorate and will pull the rug in the new year. Are they going to become like the PD's?
I'm not sure, are you?

the greens ( delicate flowers that they are ) didnt like the smell of this bailout and duly wobbled , its important the flaky bunch hold thier nose for the sake of the country and get this budget through , they have plenty of time to cleanse their souls next year when the electorate makes them wear sack cloth and ashes

Bill2673

DaDumTish wrote: »

funny Eamon ryan, even as an intellectual lightweight of the highest order
doesn't seem to think the greens will suffer too badly

he must be delusional as well as thick.

I dont think they actually realise just how vicious the payback is going to be

I'd say to be fair they do know it but they can't come out and say " yeah we are going to be wiped out"....

Anyway, not to worry. He will have a nice ministerial pension.

c_man

None whatsoever. They've betrayed the Irish people time and again over the past two and a half years.

Before jumping into bed with FF I found them a bit batty (anti-vaccination stuff tolerated etc.) but well meaning. I didn't vote for them, but I remember the shock of some Green voting friends after the election. Now however I view them in the same light as FF. Their time is up, they won't be missed.

LostinBlanch

Bill2673 wrote: »

I campaigned for them at the last election.

The reason was that I had always voted Green, and always felt my vote was a wasted vote.

My local candidate was Patricia McKenna.

I went into the campaigning thinking, I'm not that mad on Patricia McKenna but because she is the Green candidate I will support her.

I came out of the election campaign thinking, I really like Patricia McKenna but I don't like at all where the Green party is going.

Everything I've seen since the formation of this government backs this up.

Patricia McKenna stood for a lot of the principles that the Greens were founded on. As one by one these principles were abandoned she eventually decided to leave the party.

The Green's have achieved next to nothing in this administration. By contrast they have compromised at every turn, Shell to Sea and the Tara motorway being two obvious examples. And thats not to mention their complete abstention from the economic debate. When Brian lenihan was talking about a banks guarantee, they were talking about light bulbs.

I've no time at all for Gormley in particular. He is big into politicking (if that is a word). His big achievement was shouting at Michael McDowell up a lamp post. He goes around in his prius or his bicycle. He has achieved very little in legislative terms. Yesterdays move in my view was an ill-informed decision by a confused group of 4 or 5 tds that represent the Green party in government making a last grasp for some credibility, them and Mattie McGrath.

I think there is a future for the Greens, but these guys are not a Green party.

I kept my vote in the same constituency so I could personally vote against Berties corruption. I too voted for McKenna though I disagreed with her on a number of issues, not least the vaccination debate. But I was heartened to see her standing up for her principles. And I wasn't surprised to see the character assassination that followed once she resigned from the party.

The Greens were originally set up as a party of principle, but ditched that with Sargent's jesuitical statements about not leading the Greens into coalition with FF. Now Apologists/Fanboys/indoctrinated members or whatever may deny that they have done nothing wrong but as Donegal fella said the bank guarantee and NAMA were two of the most disastrous things they could ever have sentenced ordinary citizens of this country to.

For me NAMA was the last straw, if they had pulled out of the government then I would have forgiven them and voted for them again. But no, they supported it more staunchly than the lowliest FF backbencher so they deserve to suffer IMO.

Of course with their platinum pensions such suffering will be relative compared to ordinary citizens of this country.

Bill2673

LostinBlanch wrote: »

Of course with their platinum pensions such suffering will be relative compared to ordinary citizens of this country.

Don't forget their rotating of ministerial positions so that everyone will be looked after at pension time; a match for any Fianna Fail-er there.

As an aside, I knocked on a fair few doors prior to the last election. A lot of people told me they were voting Fine Gael; a lot of people said they were voting Sinn Fein. Neither candidate was elected.

I only came across one person who said they were voting for Bertie.

And yet he tops the poll (and dragged Cyprian Brady across the line with him). Gut-wrenching.

senordingdong

Profiler wrote: »

No sympathy what so ever. As the old quote goes

"If you lie down with dogs, you get up with fleas"
.

Hit the nail on the head.

Dara Robinson

Sleepy wrote: »

The Greens would not have won a quarter of the seats they did without Sargeants "commitment" not to prop up a Fianna Fail government. They turned their back on their electorate and we'll return the favour at the polls in Janauary.

It was the Green Membership who decided to join government not the Green Politicians. A tonne of Green Politicians were trying to get members to vote against entering government.

The Green Party, unlike most (possibly all) of the other Parties in this country, is run by its members and not the Leaders. Members vote locally and nationally on issues and policy and THAT is what decides where the Green Party goes from. The Leadership just follows. Hence Sargeants resignation as leader because members and not him decided to join Government.
If your going to bash the Greens at least get it right

dRNk SAnTA

Well I DO have sympathy for the Greens.

Most of the legislation they enacted was good, especially the Planning reforms. I don't believe Fine Gael would've reformed the planning system at all, in fact FG councilors are often the worst for supporting ridiculous rezonings.

You may not agree with Green Party principles, but at least they have some. Rather than FF/FG middle of the road, whatever is politically easiest, gob****tery.

They kicked Willie O'Dea out (round of applause)

They've said they will dissolve government, but only after the budget is passed. I believe they are right on both counts. I believe Gormley when he speaks, something I can't say about Cowen or Gilmore.

If more politicians had the earnestness and legislative goals of the Green Party, Ireland would be a much better place to live.

LostinBlanch

Double post, see below

LostinBlanch

dRNk SAnTA wrote: »

Well I DO have sympathy for the Greens.

Most of the legislation they enacted was good,

Lightbulbs, don't forget the lightbulbs.

dRNk SAnTA wrote: »

You may not agree with Green Party principles, but at least they have some. Rather than FF/FG middle of the road, whatever is politically easiest, gob****tery.

Principles? They abandoned them to prop up FF.

dRNk SAnTA wrote: »

They kicked Willie O'Dea out (round of applause)

So Eamon Ryan didn't explain why he was supporting him in a vote of confidence on behalf of the Greens then?

bladespin

None, worse than FF in my book, at least with FF we knew what was coming, a lot of us hoped the greens would keep them honest but they sold out their ideals and the people who elected them, I had hoped they would be a new beginning for Irish politics, a little bit of honesty in government etc but sadly I was very mistaken. They've sold the Irish people as slaves to the IMF to license septic tanks and ban a stag hunt, well done, what an achievement.

Macha

And the Civil Partnership Bill. Biggest step for gay & lesbian rights ever in this country.

the groutch

I don't begrudge them entering into government, if it wasnt them it would have been someone else, and they had (and still have) alot of good policies. But they let themselves get bullied too easily, as junior partners they should have been using their position to keep FF in check, instead it got flipped that FF were effectively threatening to throw them out of government if they didnt fall in line

Liam Byrne

Macha wrote: »

And the Civil Partnership Bill. Biggest step for gay & lesbian rights ever in this country.

Why would we need that ?

I mean, judging by government supporters' gross generalisations, "we all" / "everyone" wants to marry someone of the opposite sex.

Macha

Liam Byrne wrote: »

Why would we need that ?

I mean, judging by government supporters' gross generalisations, "we all" / "everyone" wants to marry someone of the opposite sex.

Er...I really don't know what to say to that comment.

paddy462

As in voting for Labour in '92 a vote for the Greens in '07 was not meant to lead to FF going back into government. Labour took a major hit and the Greens being a small party will face annihilation.

GeorgeCostanza

No sympathy whatsoever. They propped up a corrupt government for 2 years and were complicit in denying the country democracy by not holding the by-elections, in order to preserve their wafer-thin majority.

As for BERs, carbon tax and the rest of their crackpot "policies", don't get me started. It seems that every one of their initiative end up costing the Irish citizen more money.

Good riddance lads, get your hi-viz jackets and your big fat pensions, and go. :mad:

GeorgeCostanza

DaDumTish wrote: »

funny Eamon ryan, even as an intellectual lightweight of the highest order
doesn't seem to think the greens will suffer too badly

:D:D

Pathetic. I predict that the Green/Yellow party will return ZERO TDs at the next election.