Ireland vs Argentina, Sun 28 Nov 2pm, Match Thread

thomond2006

There are several injuries to the Ireland squad following yesterday's Test match against New Zealand and three players - Rob Kearney, Luke Fitzgerald and Rory Best - have been ruled out of the final game of the GUINNESS Series against Argentina.

Ireland captain Brian O'Driscoll suffered a bruised shoulder during the All Blacks game, with his back-line colleagues Tommy Bowe and Gordon D'Arcy picking up calf strains.

All three will undergo rest and rehabilitation on their injuries but, at this point, they have not been ruled out of next Sunday's game against Argentina. A further update on their condition should be available on Tuesday.

Luke Fitzgerald suffered a medial ligament injury to his left knee during the game and has been ruled out of the final GUINNESS Series Test against the Pumas.
The damage is to the same knee that he injured last November, but this is a new injury and to a different part of the knee. Fitzgerald is expected to be out for approximately six weeks.

Rob Kearney injured his knee and has suffered cartilage damage. He will undergo exploratory surgery this week to further determine the extent of the injury and the period of recovery that he will need. However, the full-back is certainly ruled out of next weekend's Test.

Rory Best will also sit out the Argentina game after suffering a fractured cheekbone. The Ulster captain will undergo surgery tomorrow and it is expected that he will be unable to play for six weeks while the injury is healing.

http://www.irishrugby.ie/news/21059.php

So Best, Kearney and Fitzgerald are out while D'Arcy, BOD and Bowe are all doubts.

Kidney gave indications before the series began that he would rotate for this game. So with that in mind I'd like to see (assuming D'Arcy, BOD and Bowe are all available for selection):

Healy
Cronin
Ross
DOC
Toner
Ferris
SOB
Heaslip
Stringer
Sexton
Trimble
D'Arcy
Earls
J Murphy
G Murphy/G Duffy

Varley
Court
MOD
Leamy
Reddan
ROG
Bowe

BOD is rested. That won't happen if he's fit but I'd like to see Earls get a shot at 13. Also like to see Johne Murphy get selected, I think he's been a brilliant find for Munster.

Shoot down this selection as you please! :pac:

Badgermonkey

I'd plump for Duffy at FB.

I'd give Court another run out.

I'd also like a look at Ferris as a second row at the expense of D'OC, which is unconventional granted but worth a look.

PhatPiggins

Does Healy deserve to keep his place?

irishbucsfan

PhatPiggins wrote: »

Does Healy deserve to keep his place?

I don't know.

His scrummaging has been poor and has lead to penalties, but I genuinely think that's due to pressure being added by Cronin's inexperience in scrums at this level. The evidence for that is 1) Any LH to play beside Cronin so far in the series has had serious trouble with penalties, while we haven't conceded 1 penalty in the scrums with Best there and 2) Healy didn't concede anything or even go backwards until Cronin's introduction v. ABs (think there were only 2 scrums mind).

I think if we put Court there we'll see the exact same thing again. I'd like to see Healy, Cronin, Ross but I'm sure we'll be poor at scrum time again regardless of who we select.

Ian_K

Healy Cronin Court
DOC Toner
Muldoon Leamy O'Brien
Stringer Sexton
Downey Earls
Carr G.Murphy J.Murphy

Varley Hagan Cullen Ronan Boss P.Wallace B.Murphy

No chance though

PCPhoto

bit early for a match thread ...isnt it ?

thomond2006

PCPhoto wrote: »

bit early for a match thread ...isnt it ?

Maybe so but at least this keeps the match discussion to one thread.

Judgement Day

Isn't Varley out injured and that's why he missed tonight's match? I think Ireland could easily lose this game if they don't put out the strongest team possible - that said I'm not sure what that is anymore.

thomond2006

Judgement Day wrote: »

Isn't Varley out injured and that's why he missed tonight's match? I think Ireland could easily lose this game if they don't put out the strongest team possible - that said I'm not sure what that is anymore.

Suppose Varley is unavailable, who is left? It would be our fifth choice hooker! It would be Nigel Brady or Adrian Flavin getting a call up! Kyriacou who looked decent last season is behind Brady at Ulster now.

WeeBushy

1. Court
2. Cronin
3. Ross
4. Cullen
5. Toner
6. Ferris
7. O'Brien
8. Leamy
9. Stringer
10. Sexton
11. Trimble
12. D'Arcy
13. Earls
14. Bowe
15. Duffy

16. Healy
17. Varley
18. O'Callaghan
19. Heaslip
20. Boss
21. O'Gara
22. Murphy (Johnne or Geordan, haven't decided which )

Think we need to see someone else at 8 in case of injury, and Heaslip could do with a rest. Not Leamy's best position, but he is the best option we have imo.

We also need to look at someone else other than O'Driscoll. And out of players that Kidney likes/picks for his squads, Earls is the best option. Plays there for Munster and could develop into a long term replacement.

Duffy deserves a chance, and with Fitz out he should start imo.

Ross and Cullen defo wont get picked, but its my team so they're in.

No point in changing the whole 15 just for the sake of it, we might as well organise A games if we want to do that, so a strong team with a few changes is in order. Similar to what we did against Samoa.

EDIT: Or maybe we could have a look at Bowe at 13 with Earls on the wing.

This sounds ridiculous, but I hope and pray that BOD sits this one out. We absolutely 100% need to develop a backup in case of worst case scenario. If he expects to play 80mins of each WC game, he'll be dead before he's 40!

danthefan

Deleted User wrote: »

This sounds ridiculous, but I hope and pray that BOD sits this one out. We absolutely 100% need to develop a backup in case of worst case scenario. If he expects to play 80mins of each WC game, he'll be dead before he's 40!

Agree, there are important games coming up in December.

Ian_K

thomond2006 wrote: »

Suppose Varley is unavailable, who is left? It would be our fifth choice hooker! It would be Nigel Brady or Adrian Flavin getting a call up! Kyriacou who looked decent last season is behind Brady at Ulster now.

I'd go for Sherry on tonights performance alone

Teferi

Yeah, hope Drico watches this one on the bench, ready to come on if needed. Very heartened after the performance against New Zealand, maybe the lads needed a couple of weeks to get back into it. I can see us winning this and Argentina are always a hard and physical team.

Hopefully the rest does Kearneys game good. I honestly don't think he deserves a first choice place at the moment.

Podge_irl

If BOD is out I wouldn't be surprised to see Heaslip start as captain. I'd be shocked if both are rested at any rate, not sure Ireland can afford to lose their two best players against Argentina.


Also, ROSS, ROSS, ROSS, ROSS, ROSS, ROSS, ROSS, ROSS, ROSS, ROSS, ROSS, ROSS

danthefan

Something like:

Murphy
Bowe
Earls
D'Arcy
Trimble
Sexton
Stringer
Heaslip
SOB
Leamy
DOC/Cullen
Toner
Ross
Cronin
Court/Healy


In reality I think what we'll see is a side with the injured guys replaced and nothing else.

SomeFool

Would lke to see

1. Court
2. Cronin
3. Ross
4. O' Callaghan
5. Toner
6. Muldoon
7. O' Brien
8. Leamy
9. Strings
10. Sexton
11. Earls
12. D'arcy
13. Bowe
14. Horgan
15. Fitzgerald

jolley123

That would actually be the best selection he could make, not as in the best team we have but as in a selection well worth having a look at.

murphy93

Cant' wait, first live international for a few years. Will probably though enough. Thought Ireland did very well on sat ust a few lapses and soft scores let in.

CiaranMT

SomeFool wrote: »

Would lke to see

1. Court
2. Cronin
3. Ross
4. O' Callaghan
5. Toner
6. Muldoon
7. O' Brien
8. Leamy
9. Strings
10. Sexton
11. Earls
12. D'arcy
13. Bowe
14. Horgan
15. Fitzgerald

No, not Horgan! He won't be at the WC, no point in including him here. He's a fading force.

WeeBushy

CiaranMT wrote: »

No, not Horgan! He won't be at the WC, no point in including him here. He's a fading force.

A fading force? Did you see him on Friday night? He has a good chance of going to the world cup.

I don't think he should be included against the argies, though.

fryup

is there tickets for this game? or is it part of the multi-match bundle?

trackguy

Would love to see this team -

Court Cronin Ross
Toner Cullen
Ferris Heaslip SOB
Stringer Sexton
Trimble Darcy Earls Bowe
Murphy

Wouldn't be optimistic about Ross, Cullen, Earls (centre) or Murphy actually playing.

crisco10

SomeFool wrote: »

Would lke to see

1. Court
2. Cronin
3. Ross
4. O' Callaghan
5. Toner
6. Muldoon
7. O' Brien
8. Leamy
9. Strings
10. Sexton
11. Earls
12. D'arcy
13. Bowe
14. Horgan
15. Fitzgerald

Luke is out.

Put Trimble in for Shaggy and maybe Murphy/Duffy at FB and you have my vote.

I know Horgan played well on friday, but there is never a chance that an international winger will defend as badly as Newport's left winger did.

OldRio

fryup wrote: »

is there tickets for this game? or is it part of the multi-match bundle?

Tickets on sale on the IRFU website

95euro each...............FFS:mad:

d'Oracle

PhatPiggins wrote: »

Does Healy deserve to keep his place?

I think absolutely.
I think Jonker did as much wrong as Healy did. He was right to whinge about it IMO. I think he did reasonably well in a good few scrums. And if I'm not mistaken, Court looks more comfortable at Tight.

Also (of obvious less importance) he wasn't that bad around the park.
I think he gets pillard anytime he gets a penalty against him, because of his reputation for having the dreaded "Bad Disciplinary Record", but I seem to remember the same being true for a Young DOC and look how he turned out.

I think Ross should play. Even if he gets put on the bench, he will get a run because the Argies are Punishing scrummagers.

I think picking Murphy would be a mistake.
Earls and Bowe would have FB covered.

I think if we are realistic, Horgan won't be there.

little173

Think as has been previously mentioned, DK will really not want to lose this, so expect another fairly conservative selection.

- Earls has to play 13 - he is getting a good run for Munster at 13 and that needs to be continued.
- Ross - surely he has to play!
- Cullen - needs a run as a straight swap for DOC who needs a rest
- Think he will rotate the half backs - may just set up another ROG vs Conte scrap"

I expect the following:

Healy
Cronin
Ross
Cullen
Toner
Ferris
SOB
Heaslip ( c)
Stringer
RoG
Trimble
Darcy
Earls
Bowe
Murphy

trackguy

little173 wrote: »

Think as has been previously mentioned, DK will really not want to lose this, so expect another fairly conservative selection.

- Earls has to play 13 - he is getting a good run for Munster at 13 and that needs to be continued.
- Ross - surely he has to play!
- Cullen - needs a run as a straight swap for DOC who needs a rest
- Think he will rotate the half backs - may just set up another ROG vs Conte scrap"

I expect the following:

Healy
Cronin
Ross
Cullen
Toner
Ferris
SOB
Heaslip ( c)
Stringer
RoG
Trimble
Darcy
Earls
Bowe
Murphy

Don't think the outhalves should be swapped. That's not to say they won't be, I imagine Kidney will bring ROG back in.

Against NZ was the first time we looked potent in attack in a long time. I think alot of it was down to Sexton, he played close to the gainline and was really trying to hold defenders by running aggressive lines before passing. I think he should be given more games to work on this. I just can't see ROG doing this as effectively at this point in his career.

phog

OldRio wrote: »

Tickets on sale on the IRFU website

95euro each...............FFS:mad:

Kilester Travel text me to offer tickets, lunch and a free drink for €85.

Nemesis

I was lucky enough to get 2 free tickets for the NZ game.

The tickets were in the lower west stand in block 128 and were 'restricted view' tickets and had a price tag of 50 euro.

My son really enjoyed the match and I thought I'd check out the price of tickets for the Argentina match.

I cant find where to buy 'restricted view' tickets anywhere though.

Anyone know where?..direct off IRFU perhaps?.

I aint paying the guts of 200 quid for 2 tickets especially as we are going to the Leinster/Clermont game on Dec 18th at a cost of 15 quid for 2 tickets..in the same stadium!

bamboozle

given the nature of Kidney's selections so far i wouldnt be suprised if we see Hurley starting on the wing.

i'd love to see Ross, Muldoon, Varley (although Cronin needs game time) Carr all start this weekend.

A back row of Muldoon, Leamy and SOB would be very strong.

I also reckon BOD is getting greedy for caps and will insist on being involved if fit.

trackguy

bamboozle wrote: »

given the nature of Kidney's selections so far i wouldnt be suprised if we see Hurley starting on the wing.

i'd love to see Ross, Muldoon, Varley (although Cronin needs game time) Carr all start this weekend.

A back row of Muldoon, Leamy and SOB would be very strong.

I also reckon BOD is getting greedy for caps and will insist on being involved if fit.

Any player will want to play every game if fit. The Irish management have been and always will be reckless with BOD's health because of his importance to the team.

phog

phog wrote: »

Kilester Travel text me to offer tickets, lunch and a free drink for €85.

Update on this by email - Ticket only is €65, a fair enough price as this fixture is usually a dog fight

Mickk

Nemesis wrote: »

I was lucky enough to get 2 free tickets for the NZ game.

The tickets were in the lower west stand in block 128 and were 'restricted view' tickets and had a price tag of 50 euro.

My son really enjoyed the match and I thought I'd check out the price of tickets for the Argentina match.

I cant find where to buy 'restricted view' tickets anywhere though.

Anyone know where?..direct off IRFU perhaps?.

I aint paying the guts of 200 quid for 2 tickets especially as we are going to the Leinster/Clermont game on Dec 18th at a cost of 15 quid for 2 tickets..in the same stadium!

There are a few 95 euro tickets on toutless.com for 45-55 euros

fryup

Nemesis wrote: »

I was lucky enough to get 2 free tickets for the NZ game.

The tickets were in the lower west stand in block 128 and were 'restricted view' tickets and had a price tag of 50 euro.

so are restricted view tickets sold separately?

and how restricted is it? pillar in the way or something?

thomond2006

bamboozle wrote: »

given the nature of Kidney's selections so far i wouldnt be suprised if we see Hurley starting on the wing.

i'd love to see Ross, Muldoon, Varley (although Cronin needs game time) Carr all start this weekend.

A back row of Muldoon, Leamy and SOB would be very strong.

I also reckon BOD is getting greedy for caps and will insist on being involved if fit.

Murphy and Trimble are both in the squad, Hurley isn't.

Mr Tim Buktoo

Time to get the great geordan back again

Badgermonkey

Mr Tim Buktoo wrote: »

Time to get the great geordan back again

He's almost always been ineffectual at a national level, it's called the Conor O'Shea principle.

Duffy's got more to give us at this stage imo.

stephen_n

Judgement Day wrote: »

Isn't Varley out injured and that's why he missed tonight's match? I think Ireland could easily lose this game if they don't put out the strongest team possible - that said I'm not sure what that is anymore.

Would be well worth loosing it if they tried some different players and different combinations though. Like as was suggest Ferris at lock, Earls/Bowe in the centre and give Carr a run out, would like to see Hagan get a run out but against the Argies it would probably be too much too soon.

B0X

stephen_n wrote: »

Would be well worth loosing it if they tried some different players and different combinations though. Like as was suggest Ferris at lock, Earls/Bowe in the centre and give Carr a run out, would like to see Hagan get a run out but against the Argies it would probably be too much too soon.

If Ross can't get on the team Hagan hasn't a hope.

CiaranMT

Badgermonkey wrote: »

He's almost always been ineffectual at a national level, it's called the Conor O'Shea principle.

Duffy's got more to give us at this stage imo.

Over 60 caps and you reckon he's been ineffectual?

Badgermonkey

CiaranMT wrote: »

Over 60 caps and you reckon he's been ineffectual?

Subjective view of course,but yes I do. He had far more footballing talent than Girvan Dempsey, yet Dempsey owned that jersey and you have to ask why.

sickpuppy

Badgermonkey wrote: »

Subjective view of course,but yes I do. He had far more footballing talent than Girvan Dempsey, yet Dempsey owned that jersey and you have to ask why.

Both were very good players if Murphy was say full back for Munster or Ulster im sure hed have more caps.
Think Eddie preffered Girvans better defence rather than Murphys better attack

Badgermonkey

sickpuppy wrote: »

Both were very good players if Murphy was say full back for Munster or Ulster im sure hed have more caps.
Think Eddie preffered Girvans better defence rather than Murphys better attack

Very true. Ironically Leo Cullen returned home to be more visible to the Irish management but alas...

Podge_irl

sickpuppy wrote: »

Both were very good players if Murphy was say full back for Munster or Ulster im sure hed have more caps.

Only if he learnt to tackle while he was there.

sickpuppy

Podge_irl wrote: »

Only if he learnt to tackle while he was there.

Fair point Murphy to me always looked light weight and defence was not his best asset.

Chucky the tree

Podge_irl wrote: »

Only if he learnt to tackle while he was there.

Hasn't stopped Kearney.

Podge_irl

Chucky the tree wrote: »

Hasn't stopped Kearney.

There's no better alternative at the moment - there was for Murphy. Though if Kearney is still struggling with his tackling in a couple of seasons I would hope someone better has come along.

Murphy also lost the ball going forward far too much for my liking, which is something Kearney isn't quite so bad at.

Mr Tim Buktoo

Badgermonkey wrote: »

Subjective view of course,but yes I do. He had far more footballing talent than Girvan Dempsey, yet Dempsey owned that jersey and you have to ask why.

the reason being that o sullivan was a conservative bolox, just like kidney is a conservative bolox.
i couldnt imagine a better fullback to have had agains NZ the other day, especially the way we are trying to play.
murphy can be first receiver or he can come into the line , unlike kearney.
if murphy was australian he would have over 100 caps and i hope he gets the jersey on saturday and keeps it right up untill the world cup.
you ****ers dont relise genuine class when you see it. kearny isnt fit to lick his boots

Podge_irl

Mr Tim Buktoo wrote: »

the reason being that o sullivan was a conservative bolox, just like kidney is a conservative bolox.
i couldnt imagine a better fullback to have had agains NZ the other day, especially the way we are trying to play.
murphy can be first receiver or he can come into the line , unlike kearney.
if murphy was australian he would have over 100 caps and i hope he gets the jersey on saturday and keeps it right up untill the world cup.
you ****ers dont relise genuine class when you see it. kearny isnt fit to lick his boots

I seem to have missed most of the times in his SIXTY caps that Murphy was so stellar.

I DO remember his multiple monumental screw-ups. How he wasn't dropped after France 06 is utterly and completely beyond me. He might come in for the Argentina game, but he's not even the player he used to be anymore.

sickpuppy

Mr Tim Buktoo wrote: »

the reason being that o sullivan was a conservative bolox, just like kidney is a conservative bolox.
i couldnt imagine a better fullback to have had agains NZ the other day, especially the way we are trying to play.
murphy can be first receiver or he can come into the line , unlike kearney.
if murphy was australian he would have over 100 caps and i hope he gets the jersey on saturday and keeps it right up untill the world cup.
you ****ers dont relise genuine class when you see it. kearny isnt fit to lick his boots

Ya 100 caps for oz:pac:
Murphy would definitely have been better than Chris Latham and the rising stars O connor and Beale