What birds would you like to see re-introduced?

Feargal as Luimneach

We have had the three raptors re-introduced (work progressing). These re-introductions are correcting a great wrong. Hopefully all three will be successful.
The bird I would most like to see re-introduced is the humble Corn Bunting. The Corn bunting was found mostly in extensive mixed farming areas along the western coasts. The cause of extinction: The lack of seed-rich winter stubbles and spring-sown barley have been implicated along with the use of pesticides and reduction of mixed farming. A re-introduction programm for this little gem via carefull habitat improvement would also help a myriad number of our threatened farmland birds.
The Corn Bunting may not seem exciting or beautiful to most people, but I think he's a fantastic bird. Here's a photo:


What birds would you like to see returned?

recedite

The Eagle Owl

Now breeding in the UK, but inevitably the anti non-native species fascists ;)would strongly object.
The following shows how this often arbitrary distinction makes the difference between protection and persecution;
"If they recommend that the owl is classed as native wildlife then the owl will receive the full protection of the law, however, if they class it as an escapee and alien species then a cull could soon be on the way to eradicate the species"

http://wildlifenews.co.uk/2010/eagle-owls-fate-will-soon-be-determined/

Scotty #

The Capercaillie...



Sadly, I don't we have the suitable habitat for these any longer.

Cardynal

Another vote for Corn Bunting here Feargal , i remember they were quite plentiful and declined very rapidly ( cracking little bird).
I also believe the Woodlark is recovering in Britian , would be wonderful to see this beautiful Lark get a foothold here again.
Regards Tom.

Birdnuts

Osprey - Indeed I can't understand why it hasn't started to breed naturally by itself given that it returned to the UK over 50 years ago and plenty are recorded on passage each Spring in this country in suitable breeding habitat.

PS: The Common Crane would also be a delightful addition when our worked out midland bogs are returned to nature:)

Birdnuts

recedite wrote: »

The Eagle Owl

Now breeding in the UK, but inevitably the anti non-native species fascists ;)would strongly object.
The following shows how this often arbitrary distinction makes the difference between protection and persecution;
"If they recommend that the owl is classed as native wildlife then the owl will receive the full protection of the law, however, if they class it as an escapee and alien species then a cull could soon be on the way to eradicate the species"

http://wildlifenews.co.uk/2010/eagle-owls-fate-will-soon-be-determined/

Ah yes - the Eagle owl hysteria that is currently gripping the UK;)

The idea that Eagle - Owls where never native to these Islands is simply laughable IMO given that they are known to migrate and occur right up to the English Channel coast in France and Belgium.

recedite

Birdnuts wrote: »

when our worked out midland bogs are returned to nature

I think they usually metamorphose into forestry. But it should be possible to recreate alkaline fens in some other formerly drained landscapes, if someone were to purchase enough land.

Birdnuts

recedite wrote: »

I think they usually metamorphose into forestry. But it should be possible to recreate alkaline fens in some other formerly drained landscapes, if someone were to purchase enough land.

Forestry wouldn't pay on the ones that have to be kept from flooding by constant pumping - these type make up a huge proportion eithier side of the Shannon. Neither is conifer afforestation viable on much of the rest since the likes of spruce do not thrive in frost hollows.

recedite

Quite often bogs formed when sediments built up and blocked off drainage. Man made cuttings draining to lower ground causes them to drain by gravity. Sitka Spruce is tolerant of cold wet acidic conditions, which is why we have so much of it growing here.

cuddlycavies

Can you imagine what the cat lovers have to say about Eagle Owls. Ha! Introduce them now

recedite

Hide your cats; Revenge of the birds is coming :pac:

Birdnuts

recedite wrote: »

. Sitka Spruce is tolerant of cold wet acidic conditions, which is why we have so much of it growing here.

Yes - but on mountainsides. The frost hollows of the midlands are not suiteable for young spruce trees since the intensity of frost damage is actually much more severe then in mountain areas due to the fact that cold air will always sink below warmer air. That is why on calm, frosty nights you will find low lying areas receive much lower temps then the surrounding hills:)

PS: Bord Na Mona already has advanced plans to re-flood large areas of worked out bog eithierside of the Shannon

Birdnuts

cuddlycavies wrote: »

Can you imagine what the cat lovers have to say about Eagle Owls. Ha! Introduce them now

Eagle owls do a great job on vermin like crows and foxes, so most informed farmers, gamekeepers etc. should welcome their return:)

cuddlycavies

Birdnuts wrote: »

Eagle owls do a great job on vermin like crows and foxes:)

And cats:)

Crann na Beatha

This post has been deleted.

magicbastarder

recedite wrote: »

if they class it as an escapee and alien species then a cull could soon be on the way to eradicate the species"

i don't understand; how many other alien fauna are being culled? i could understand more if the eagle owl was driving another species to extinction, but is this the case?

Feargal as Luimneach

Obaraten wrote: »

Goshawk

The Goshawk has returned already:) Check out the link:
http://www.goldeneagle.ie/portal.php?z=153

snowstreams

The Bittern would be a nice bird to see back. I suppose its success would depend on how much reedbeds we have.

recedite

Birdnuts wrote: »

The frost hollows of the midlands are not suitable for young spruce trees since the intensity of frost damage is actually much more severe then in mountain areas due to...

OK young nutty-bird, I'm gonna settle this once and for all

http://maps.osi.ie/publicviewer/#V1,615761,720432,6

See this map, its an area near Bord Na Mona HQ. They have a very nice partridge reserve there at Lough Boura, the lake itself is artificially created on the site of a worked out bog. Well worth a visit if anyone is in the area. Plenty of waterfowl, nice nature trail type paths etc.
On the map, see the selection in black box on the right, click between Ortho 1995, 2000 and 2005. You can see the area outside the reserve gradually changing from bog to conifer forest over those years. Those routes through the bog are the disused narrow gauge bog railways.

Birdnuts wrote: »

PS: Bord Na Mona already has advanced plans to re-flood large areas of worked out bog eithierside of the Shannon

Thats interesting, so are they going to make a bird reserve similar to Lough Boura, only bigger? Whereabouts?

recedite

magicbastarder wrote: »

i don't understand; how many other alien fauna are being culled? i could understand more if the eagle owl was driving another species to extinction, but is this the case?

It doesn't have to be the case, the native purists take the view that no other species should be allowed in. A bit like the Amish, they hark back to some halcyon time in the past and want to stop the clock there.
Every species has some effect on its neighbours. Look at the Sea Eagle spending all its time touring the east coast bird sanctuaries from the Wexford Slobs to the Murrough in Wicklow. Obviously its taking its toll on existing "native" wildfowl, but nature has a way of finding a balance.

Look at the Red Squirrels. They are small and light, and they build nests out on the tips of branches. Greys build nests where the branch meets the trunk of the tree. Since we stopped poisoning and shooting all the Pine Martens, they are selecting out the easier to catch greys for food. Now we are approaching an era where if you go into the woods, you have a reasonable chance to see all three species, living in balance. A good result IMO.
Of course there are still "do-gooders" out there who spend their time shooting and trapping Grey Squirrels, as if it was some sort of public service, preserving national purity.

Smartypantsdig

Did we ever have the redstart in the record here? I was working in Germany a few years ago and one wee bird used to stand on the edge of the trench and wait for worms .

If we ever had them, get them back!

Feargal as Luimneach

Smartypantsdig wrote: »

Did we ever have the redstart in the record here? I was working in Germany a few years ago and one wee bird used to stand on the edge of the trench and wait for worms .

If we ever had them, get them back!

One or two pairs in Glendalough, they like extensive hardwood forests! Unfortunately hardwood forests are a rarity in this country:(

Feargal as Luimneach

recedite wrote: »

It doesn't have to be the case, the native purists take the view that no other species should be allowed in. A bit like the Amish, they hark back to some halcyon time in the past and want to stop the clock there.
Every species has some effect on its neighbours. Look at the Sea Eagle spending all its time touring the east coast bird sanctuaries from the Wexford Slobs to the Murrough in Wicklow. Obviously its taking its toll on existing "native" wildfowl, but nature has a way of finding a balance.

Look at the Red Squirrels. They are small and light, and they build nests out on the tips of branches. Greys build nests where the branch meets the trunk of the tree. Since we stopped poisoning and shooting all the Pine Martens, they are selecting out the easier to catch greys for food. Now we are approaching an era where if you go into the woods, you have a reasonable chance to see all three species, living in balance. A good result IMO.
Of course there are still "do-gooders" out there who spend their time shooting and trapping Grey Squirrels, as if it was some sort of public service, preserving national purity.

Unfortunately introductions of non-native species are probably one of the greatest threats to indigenous wildlife. Just look at feral cats and foxes in australia. The brown tree snake in Guam which has destroyed most of the birdlife there.

Feargal as Luimneach

recedite wrote: »

OK young nutty-bird, I'm gonna settle this once and for all

http://maps.osi.ie/publicviewer/#V1,615761,720432,6

See this map, its an area near Bord Na Mona HQ. They have a very nice partridge reserve there at Lough Boura, the lake itself is artificially created on the site of a worked out bog. Well worth a visit if anyone is in the area. Plenty of waterfowl, nice nature trail type paths etc.
On the map, see the selection in black box on the right, click between Ortho 1995, 2000 and 2005. You can see the area outside the reserve gradually changing from bog to conifer forest over those years. Those routes through the bog are the disused narrow gauge bog railways.


Thats interesting, so are they going to make a bird reserve similar to Lough Boura, only bigger? Whereabouts?

Think your right on that one. Most of the cut-away bog will end up as sikta spruce plantation sh**e. Only a small proportion will end up like Lough Boora ie unusable for conifer plantation.

Birdnuts

recedite wrote: »

OK young nutty-bird, I'm gonna settle this once and for all

http://maps.osi.ie/publicviewer/#V1,615761,720432,6

See this map, its an area near Bord Na Mona HQ. They have a very nice partridge reserve there at Lough Boura, the lake itself is artificially created on the site of a worked out bog. Well worth a visit if anyone is in the area. Plenty of waterfowl, nice nature trail type paths etc.
On the map, see the selection in black box on the right, click between Ortho 1995, 2000 and 2005. You can see the area outside the reserve gradually changing from bog to conifer forest over those years. Those routes through the bog are the disused narrow gauge bog railways.


Thats interesting, so are they going to make a bird reserve similar to Lough Boura, only bigger? Whereabouts?

I know Boora well having studied there as part of my MSc from UCD. I also walked it extensively with forestry experts who pointed out the the frost damage to young spruce which has led to much die-back and stunted trees in prone areas. That was the point i was making - the quality of wood produced here will struggle against more productive sites.

PS: Many of the worked out bogs adjacent to the Shannon are now below the level of the River itself and are only being kept dry by intensive pumping. The economics here will soon dictate that these areas will be returned to wilderness sooner rather then later:)

Birdnuts

recedite wrote: »

It doesn't have to be the case, the native purists take the view that no other species should be allowed in. A bit like the Amish, they hark back to some halcyon time in the past and want to stop the clock there.
Every species has some effect on its neighbours. Look at the Sea Eagle spending all its time touring the east coast bird sanctuaries from the Wexford Slobs to the Murrough in Wicklow. Obviously its taking its toll on existing "native" wildfowl, but nature has a way of finding a balance.

.

Indeed - though I think in coastal locations Sea-eagles are more scavengers of seal carcasses etc. then active hunters. When it comes to avian prey, sea-birds appear to be much more on the menu then wildfowl going on populations in Norway and the Baltic. Indeed fishermen in the the Baltic have welcomed the spread of the Sea-eagle since its been found to be a major predator of Cormorants:)

jwshooter

what about red grouse ,most of the up lands in ireland have no breeding pairs any more .

or are they not exotic enough for most .

Feargal as Luimneach

jwshooter wrote: »

what about red grouse ,most of the up lands in ireland have no breeding pairs any more .

or are they not exotic enough for most .

x2
Jwshooter, I would say that everybody who has made posts on this thread cares about the plight of the Irish Red Grouse:rolleyes:

Mabel

Another vote for the Corn Bunting. I remember seeing Corn Buntings when I was a chisler in Clare Island. Dull but they have a wonderful song.

Maybe a few more Red-necked Pharalopes? Like the Bittern, not so much a re-introduction of former natives that occasionally come here naturally!

doctor evil

recedite wrote: »

. Now we are approaching an era where if you go into the woods, you have a reasonable chance to see all three species, living in balance. A good result IMO.

You are forgetting the parapox virus and the fact that grey squirrels are much larger and more competitive, they push the native reads out.

The only good thing in the above sentence is that grey squirrels can provide pine marten with a food source.

recedite

doctor evil wrote: »

The only good thing in the above sentence is that grey squirrels can provide pine marten with a food source.

Yes, Dr Evil, the only good grey is a dead grey etc.. exactly what I meant about the intolerant, narrow minded viewpoint.

doctor evil

recedite wrote: »

Yes, Dr Evil, the only good grey is a dead grey etc.. exactly what I meant about the intolerant, narrow minded viewpoint.

As far as I am aware there is no empirical evidence that red and grey squirrels exist harmoniously.

charlemont

Vulture's..Pterodactyl's..

littlebug

Please keep the thread on the topic of birds you would like to see re-introduced rather than squirrels.
Thanks.

Feargal as Luimneach

Seems like the Corn Bunting is the favoured choice:D

Birdnuts

Feargal as Luimneach wrote: »

Seems like the Corn Bunting is the favoured choice:D

Do u have a LBJ fetish Feargal??;)

Mabel

Birdnuts wrote: »

Do u have a LBJ fetish Feargal??;)

You mean you don't?

:p

In all seriousness I would love to see the Corn Bunting back because of an ingrained sense of rooting for the underdog. Just because it is a dull boring looking bird it's still a crying shame the 21st century was marked by the Irish extinction of this bird. (OK, maybe late 20th but still)

Kess73

Would not mind seeing certain Phorusrhacids getting introduced in a few areas here in Limerick and a few other spots around the country. Better than any police force.


Failing that I think I would be going with the Corn Bunting.

jwshooter

Feargal as Luimneach wrote: »

x2
Jwshooter, I would say that everybody who has made posts on this thread cares about the plight of the Irish Red Grouse:rolleyes:

<Mod Snip>
Please take what I consider your own agenda elsewhere. This thread is not about Red Grouse vs Predator

Smartypantsdig

Feargal as Luimneach wrote: »

One or two pairs in Glendalough, they like extensive hardwood forests! Unfortunately hardwood forests are a rarity in this country:(

Funny you should say this... I was in Glendalough two years ago and thought I saw one but ruled it out! I will keep a better eye out in future. Thanks friend!

jwshooter

jwshooter wrote: »

<Mod Snip>
Please take what I consider your own agenda elsewhere. This thread is not about Red Grouse vs Predator

Am i missing something hear .... i would like to see irish red grouse on our mountains again ...( ie ) re-introduction ..

Feargal as Luimneach

jwshooter wrote: »

Am i missing something hear .... i would like to see irish red grouse on our mountains again ...( ie ) re-introduction ..

The term your looking for is a translocation:cool:. The translocation of Irish Red grouse from areas such as the Wicklow mountains/Slieve Blooms to areas where there no grouse present. A re-introduction is re-introducing birds that have become extinct in the country.