Dairy Calves

Gman1987

Has anyone any idea how much dairy heifer calves are making? I am looking into starting dairying so im just trying to put sums together wheather to buy them as calves and rear them or buy them as yearlings or buy incalf heifers. I no that you would be commencing milking earlier by buying incalf heifers but they seam to be big money and that i dont have:mad:. Also does anyone here have any dairy heifer calves for sale at the moment of know of anyone with them for sale? Also am i mad to be thinking of going into dairy!!!:eek::eek::eek:

ihatetractors

Ger1987 wrote: »

Has anyone any idea how much dairy heifer calves are making? I am looking into starting dairying so im just trying to put sums together wheather to buy them as calves and rear them or buy them as yearlings or buy incalf heifers. I no that you would be commencing milking earlier by buying incalf heifers but they seam to be big money and that i dont have:mad:. Also does anyone here have any dairy heifer calves for sale at the moment of know of anyone with them for sale? Also am i mad to be thinking of going into dairy!!!:eek::eek::eek:

Dono bout anyone else, but we'd look to spend €400-500 for high ebi calves.
You should try breed as much of your own imo, try avoid most of the issue with 'baught in diseases' etc...
Small steps, add a few extra cows every year
Personaly i know prices are expensive, but 2 top cows are better than 3 middeling ones imo

whelan1

ihatetractors wrote: »

Dono bout anyone else, but we'd look to spend €400-500 for high ebi calves.
You should try breed as much of your own imo, try avoid most of the issue with 'baught in diseases' etc...
Small steps, add a few extra cows every year
Personaly i know prices are expensive, but 2 top cows are better than 3 middeling ones imo

but top cows take a lot of looking after ... middling ones will pay you back better in the long run... i have been buying in for about 15 years now - also breed alot of my own replacements- i find the expensive ones aren't worth the money

Gman1987

Thanks for the reply lads, €400 to €500 is a fair bit of money for a calf, she need to be some milker!! I know you say breed my own but im starting from stractch so i need about 75 odd calves this year and maybe 35 next year to start and then i would breed my own replacements from them (if they were good enought milkers). what sort of money are the midde type cavles? Also does there be much trading of heifer calve i.e would i be able to pick them up easy enough?

dar31

if i was in the op's situation i would be going out and buying my cows as 5 - 10 lactation cows at cull cow price or just over, once scc was right, would require records to confirm scc was right. would need a very experienced eye to help with buying these as there is so much to look out for.

in that situation you would have a large volume of milk at a cheap price, get the show on the road as it were. granted it will take a bit longer to build the herd to the type of cow you want.
once you have it all payed for ,is the time to get some nice cows for the neighbors to look over the hedge at.
all hf calves will be 400 - 500, only the top end of pedigree will be above this.
anything under this will be just what another farmer wants to clean out of his herd.
it will cost you over e1400 a heifer to get each one of them in to the parlour. mortality will prob run to 15% by the time they are milking, esp if the animals are bought across a number of herds. disease is going to be your biggest hurdle.

if you didnt want to buy old cows, then 2nd lact cows would be the best alternative, will cost you dearly, but you would have a better chance of getting the money from the bank for them, compared to hf calves, as the calves will sit there for 2yrs before they start to make a return.

dont know if this made thing any easier or worse for you.

dar31

you are not mad to think of going into dairying.
however you are stone bloody crazy to go at it blind folded.
there is a wealth of information out there, use it, learn every scrap of it, and you will put existing dairy men to shame, do it half hearted and the banks will own you for the rest of your life.
get an adviser on board, be it a teagasc man of an independent dairy specialist.
what part of the country are you in

whelan1

when i was starting off i bought 10 maiden heifers ready for service at £500 each... was the best buy of all i bought , i had some of them for 10 lactations.... there are bargains to be got , just shop around.... on buying calves , its a long time from when you buy them until you get any return and in the back of my mind , i would always be wary of there being free martins for sale, at least if you are getting an older animal the vet can check its equipment;) i am currently looking to buy cows rather than heifers , want milk in the tank asap

ihatetractors

whelan1 wrote: »

but top cows take a lot of looking after ... middling ones will pay you back better in the long run... i have been buying in for about 15 years now - also breed alot of my own replacements- i find the expensive ones aren't worth the money

Tis just that we're not gifted with a large block round the yard so, we make the best of a limited amount a land. Just the way we work, with gettin the best stock we can get, idealy gettin best results

Gman1987

Thanks for all the replys lads, its great to see so many people here interested in the industry. i thinks there great scope for the dairy industry in ireland.

Its a big decision im making so i wont be entering it likely, i know there hugh money involved so i will have to do all my sums. thats why i was thinking of buying calves as these would be costing alot less. it would also allow me to stay working off the farm for the next two years so to fund the parlour etc.

What type of milking system are ye in anyways? i was going to go with spring calving. also the prices of calves quoted are HF, what sort of money are the BF calves making?

Im in d midland by the way

F.D

Ger By the qtys of calves you need you look like you will have big enough herd to be viable, i think you are going the right way about it buying calves also it will give you more time to get set up and with a lower cost I'm also very interested in it to and have been doing a lot of looking into it recently, i'm wondering now when quotas go are you farmers going to be forced to produce milk all year round especially new entrants, if so are you prepared to do this ?
What is your plan are you going to focus soely on milk production? maybe you should be looking at a lower number of highly bred heifers and pay the money at the start for quality meaning more milk from less cows
or you could better off with the British Fresian at least you can try and get some good beef stock as a secondry income which you could be glad of if milk prices dip

theroad

I've heard it put this way: in the next few years, a viable dairy farm will need to sell 40 tonnes of milk solids per year, most of it off grass. That's 100 cows, producing 5500 litres (1200 gal) with average solids (3.8 bf, 3.3 pr), give or take.

Year-round production is a non-starter - there just isn't the return because processors don't want to pay a premium that reflects the extra costs of winter milk.

milkprofit

If you are serious go work ona progressive dairy farm for a year this will be the best investement you could make
Do a full budget before you spend a penny or cent a lot of hidden costs
If buy ing in test for all diseases before alowing on to your holding

Gman1987

F.D wrote: »

i'm wondering now when quotas go are you farmers going to be forced to produce milk all year round especially new entrants, if so are you prepared to do this ?

i dont beleive this will happen, i think we will follow the low cost system like new zealand (pity we dont have their weather tho!). i think there will be more of a focus on milk solids, thats the basis of the new zealand system and it seeams to be working well. if this is fully implemented here it will create changes in the type of cow milked on alot of farms.

What is your plan are you going to focus soely on milk production? [/QUOTE] Im only in the innitial planning stages so i will have to look at profit monitors over the last number of years before i decide which option to go with. We are currently in sucklers finishing all animals. I see dairy as the most viable industry at the moment and because its trading on work markets successfully (unlike beef) i beleive it will be viable into the future. Is there anyone on here who has went down the route of of starting a dairy in recent years?

Gman1987

MILK PROFIT wrote: »

If you are serious go work ona progressive dairy farm for a year this will be the best investement you could make
Do a full budget before you spend a penny or cent a lot of hidden costs
If buy ing in test for all diseases before alowing on to your holding

We were in dairy at home until i was about 8, we had to get out of it due to family circumtances. we were milking bout 45 back then. I have also previously worked of a farm in new zealand. he was in the top 1% of farms in NZ. there gona be a article on him in the comming weeks in the IFJ. I will have to do my sums seriously because if i dont then it will break me(i'd be as bad as the government then!!)

whelan1

have you approached a bank yet?

Gman1987

whelan1 wrote: »

have you approached a bank yet?

not yet, Im off work the 9th and 10th of next month so i'l request a meeting for then. somehow i dont think there will be eigher to lend (perhaps because they down have it themselves!). if all came to all i have the finances to purchase the stock now as calves. this would allow me to continue working off farm for the next two years. i would go down the route of putting in a second hand parlour if i can get one at the right price. this could go into the shed where our previous parlour was. i would reduce suckler numbers so this could help finance the costs, we currently have 40 cubicles in one shed, Another shed which we currently use for housing suckler has a 30ft lie back so i could fit what ever extra cubicles i need into this shed (six span long)

I would be looking to keep this conversion as low cost as possible, after all its profit im looking for at the end of the day

whelan1

the cubicles you have mightn't be big enough for the cows of today... the banks are very tough at the minute

5live

We started in '85 with 8 cull cows which we double (and treble)suckled and bought anything that moved with a minimum of 3 tits fr ho aa hd and all manner of crossbred yoke as long at it was cheap. All put to ai friesian and mri bulls. Started milking in jan '87 and first day in creamery in april '87. A bloody chaotic start but milk price was good(82p) for us while established dairy men whined about poor prices. And no scc fines bach then either THANK GOD;). The only thing we were particular about was testing for brucellosis. There are many ways of getting in but to my mind dar31 is probably right. Old cows are easier calved, know about being milked and offer an immediate return on investment. Certainly buy some yearling hiefers too to start your replacement cycle going but try to limit the number of farms you buy from and if possible as many as possible from one holding. Let us know how you are getting on as i remember well being lost on more than one occasion about what i should be doing:o

John_F

Ger1987 wrote: »

i dont beleive this will happen, i think we will follow the low cost system like new zealand (pity we dont have their weather tho!). i think there will be more of a focus on milk solids, thats the basis of the new zealand system and it seeams to be working well. if this is fully implemented here it will create changes in the type of cow milked on alot of farms.

What is your plan are you going to focus soely on milk production?

Im only in the innitial planning stages so i will have to look at profit monitors over the last number of years before i decide which option to go with. We are currently in sucklers finishing all animals. I see dairy as the most viable industry at the moment and because its trading on work markets successfully (unlike beef) i beleive it will be viable into the future. Is there anyone on here who has went down the route of of starting a dairy in recent years?[/QUOTE]

that will work lovely if the plants will build for more capacity, i.e. more tonnes per hour, in my opinion they wont be too eager as it will only be at max capacity for 4-6 weeks of the year at the most. Dairygold CEO has said in the IFJ interview he would rather more milk produced in the shoulders of the year and somewhat flatten the production curve, it is a complete nightmare managing a plant in a seasonal production system, NZ is all well and good but they have the government behiend them, scale, a co-op managing over 80% of milk, weather, and most importantly people, particurally young people even those from towns working on dairy farms for relief milking, people can progress way way easier in nz by farm mangager>lower order share milking> share milking>farm ownership. all this comparing of ireland to nz is grand on paper but in reality there are only a few places in ireland that you can compare to the whole of nz, the west coast if south island nz is more comparable in my view.

we are breeding milky cows and once fed right they will deliver, two ways to increase milk soilds kg in the tank: 1) increase the volume of milk 2) increase the % fat and protein in the milk. plenty holstein fresians delivering high kgs of milk solids.

Horses for courses though, you can have 150 jersey cross cows that wont take much minding or 100 holstein-fresians that may take more minding but in my view easier :rolleyes:

teagasc research has found that at a milk price above 27c per litre a holstein fresian type cow will make a lot more money than a jersey cross, but below 27cpl the holsetin will loose alot of money and the jersey x will still be viable, so it all comes down to milk price at the end of the day and what the year average would be i guess


Best of luck with the business and the bank

John_F

two very different opinions of the 2020 target

CO-OP view http://www.independent.ie/farming/coop-boss-lets-be-realistic-about-all-of-this-2431081.html

Farmer View http://www.independent.ie/farming/the-farmer-the-50pc-increase-can-be-achieved-2431082.html

Pacoa

How bout buying some spring calving cows that are not in calf at this time of the year? I've seen some advertized in the papers. Not sure what they'd be looking for them but if you could get them close to cull value you wouldn't have a lot to loose if they go wrong. Milk em for a year and they'll be nice and fat next autum.